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Level Slide
Jan 4, 2011

I get the distinct feeling that Aila is from whatever moon kingdom that Reiji is from. Her prediction on the finals and her skill at battling despite being oblivious to the Gunpla scene leads me to that conclusion. I wouldn't be surprised if Aila tried pulling that "make a wish and I'll come running" stunt if she didn't already have obligations to the methane hydrate tycoon.

I also think she would wreck Reiji in a straight up wrestling match, but I don't have anything to support that.

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Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I actually like China. Most of that is probably based on how much I laughed at that scene where she just kept wondering who the hell Ramba Ral was, but still. She's kind of bland, but there's way worse crimes than being kinda bland.

Not to mention, 'simpering' isn't exactly the word I'd use.

And Sei's mom rules, and also the only real fanservice scene was like five minutes of the beach episode, I can't remember any other 'haha she has huge boobs' stuff, unless just having huge boobs count as fanservice, even if you're wearing a fairly normal outfit.

Caros
May 14, 2008

Endorph posted:

I actually like China. Most of that is probably based on how much I laughed at that scene where she just kept wondering who the hell Ramba Ral was, but still. She's kind of bland, but there's way worse crimes than being kinda bland.

Not to mention, 'simpering' isn't exactly the word I'd use.

I personally don't get the hate for China at all. She's shown from the first episode to be a girl who is relatively popular with her friends, to have talents of her own (her art skills) who seems to have a crush on Sei. She sees a Gunpla battle and thinks its kind of nifty, and actually takes the initiative to go out and buy a gunpla, entering a hobby that seems to be heavily skewed towards men.

I hardly thing its a terrible indictment of her that she's quiet and somewhat reserved. Thus far she hasn't been woman in a fridged, targeted to be blown up to make the protaganist feel bad, Or shown to be uncommonly useless when faced with things within her skill set. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if she ends up being a better Gunpla battler than Sei depending on the direction the story takes.

Even the idea that Gunpla battle skews towards men isn't surprising. Its a sport based off a show not particularly strong with women, that focuses entirely on the fighting robot aspect. How many women do you know who watch Gundam? My wife looks at my Gunpla's and just shrugs and/or shakes her head, and that's basically the reaction I've always received on the subject.

In my personal experience the reaction to the Franky Robot in One Piece isn't that far from reality. At least statistically.

BlitzBlast
Jul 30, 2011

some people just wanna watch the world burn
Well the weird part is that by all means Bandai should be trying to get girls interested. They've probably just completely given up by now, but it really wouldn't be that hard to just make one of the nameless battlers we see now and then a girl.

I mean I don't really see a problem with how the show handles girls since a) I came in with rock-bottom expectations, and though I'm pleasantly surprised I'm still not expecting some kind of revolution and b) I have watched enough shonen toy shows to know how the score goes by now. But if they are trying to move merchandise you'd think they'd try to reach to the other 50% of the audience too. v:shobon:v

EDIT: Also 3 out of the 7 members in a gunpla club I help run are girls, so I dunno about it being a boys only crew.

BlitzBlast fucked around with this message at 09:58 on Nov 28, 2013

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Bimmi posted:

Can someone point me to the episode where China's been anything other than the simpering, timid wannabee girlfriend? Because I haven't seen it yet.

Kirara was an awful character in every respect, don't even try to rationalize that poo poo.

The only female character who's portrayed anything like a real human being is Sei's mom, and even there YES SHE'S GOT BIG TITS ALREADY I loving GET IT.

It's probably dumb of me to get mad at anime for being being rife with sexist bullshit, but Gundam had competent, well-rounded female characters thirty years ago so why is this show so loving regressive?

Ah, yes, the Gundam of the 80s was definitely a bastion for reasonable, relevant female characters who weren't driven almost entirely by men, how they react to men, or inserted into the show in order to generate pathos for men. Let's list them:

-Emma
-Roux, kind of?

Oh wait, that's it.

You're trying really hard to insert an argument about sexism into a show that is pretty innocent. Aila hasn't had a chance to *do* anything yet besides show off her badass credentials to establish her as a threat. China has been a fairly muted background character so far, but she's intended to be representative of the audience member who is totally new to Gunpla(Reiji and Nils certainly aren't because they're bizarro super-geniuses) and is getting an entire episode this week. Kirara's episode was a goofy themed villain of the day story that went out of its way to establish Sei and Reiji having positive opinions of Kirara despite her cheating. She's also showed up in episode previews as attending Gunpla battle events, meaning that she might be a recurring character. Sei's mom rules.

Seriously, if Build Fighters is alarmingly sexist to you I'm pretty sure you would commit suicide if you watched AGE.

Bimmi
Nov 8, 2009


someday
but not today
Sorry, but I think you can do a little better than that, even if you disregard the pretty good number of female characters in First Gundam who weren't any of that cliched bullshit. And at least Tomino attempted to write real people, even if he often failed. So far in GBF we have one meek, mousey milktoast who is almost entirely passive and has no detectable personality apart from "blushes at the hero," a pink-haired collection of over-the top misogynistic phobias with all the charm of fingernails on a blackboard, and someone who may or may not be an example of yet another insultingly lovely and reductive trope, the "cold emotionless killer bitch." And Sei's mom, who again is the only female character in the show that hasn't been completely loving terrible so far. If you think this is all perfectly okay, then hoo boy am I not on your page or even in your book. I shouldn't even have to EXPLAIN why these characters suck.

And I also shouldn't have to point out that saying this or any other show is better than AGE in terms of the way it treats women is not a compliment, much less an excuse. Framing it in relative terms is a copout anyway, it's still pretty bad in and of itself and is really souring my enjoyment of an otherwise pretty harmless show.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Bimmi posted:

and someone who may or may not be an example of yet another insultingly lovely and reductive trope, the "cold emotionless killer bitch."
Admittedly we haven't had much screentime with her, but when nobody was looking at her she seemed pretty drat smug. Not exactly a huge sign of personality, but it was kinda fun.

TaurusOxford
Feb 10, 2009

Dad of the Year 2021
Bimmi, lighten the gently caress up. We're only eight episodes in and you're already treating GBF like it's the worst thing to ever happen to Gundam just because the females so far aren't conforming to your Tomino-rose-colored glasses standards.

Bimmi
Nov 8, 2009


someday
but not today
Don't be ridiculous. It's not a binary, "best ever/worst ever" assessment, at least on my part. I'm simply pointing out an aspect of this show that is beginning to bug the poo poo out of me.

And if you seriously think there's nothing weird about the way females are being portrayed in GBF, you need to watch less anime.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Caros posted:

I personally don't get the hate for China at all. She's shown from the first episode to be a girl who is relatively popular with her friends, to have talents of her own (her art skills) who seems to have a crush on Sei. She sees a Gunpla battle and thinks its kind of nifty, and actually takes the initiative to go out and buy a gunpla, entering a hobby that seems to be heavily skewed towards men.

China is, so far, not very good because her personality so far revolves almost entirely around Sei.

She pretty clearly only gets interested in Gunpla because Sei is interested in Gunpla and almost every time she has brought it up so far is a thinly veiled attempt to get Sei's attention. (Something even Sei's mom notices!) When she appears in scenes it is to talk about Sei, comment on what Sei is doing, be jealous of Sei getting attention from a woman, be concerned Sei is in trouble, Seiseiseiseiseiseisei. She has character traits that could be interesting (she's an artist! That's an element of Gunpla design which is not getting much focus beyond "Sei and Mao are really good at putting things together.") They're just not given any emphasis because when she's onscreen she is all about Sei. Hopefully the next episode will change that because it will be an episode about her instead of an episode where she hangs around focusing on Sei.

She isn't the Worst Character Ever or anything but it'd be really really nice if she had some personality traits beyond 'wants to be Sei's girlfriend" and "doesn't know much about Gunpla so it can be explained to the audience." The fact that she's getting an entire episode and rivals to herself (hopefully) means that she'll basically have to and so far the show has seemed pretty good about developing characters so I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt.

Otherwise, yeah, her worst problem is that she's pretty bland. She's a pretty good straight man to characters like Ral or Rinko but that's about it so far. Here's hoping they can do a good job with the next episode so she can join the bulk of the cast in being fun characters.

quote:

Even the idea that Gunpla battle skews towards men isn't surprising. Its a sport based off a show not particularly strong with women, that focuses entirely on the fighting robot aspect. How many women do you know who watch Gundam? My wife looks at my Gunpla's and just shrugs and/or shakes her head, and that's basically the reaction I've always received on the subject.

The majority of the people I know outside of internet forums who like Gundam stuff are women. Not to mention you have things like that little girl above who is frankly a better Gunpla maker than probably anyone in this topic. I don't think anyone's under the illusion that it is anything but a male-dominated hobby but it's got a not-insignificant amount of female fans as well.

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 13:04 on Nov 28, 2013

Cao Ni Ma
May 25, 2010



Bimmi posted:

Don't be ridiculous. It's not a binary, "best ever/worst ever" assessment, at least on my part. I'm simply pointing out an aspect of this show that is beginning to bug the poo poo out of me.

And if you seriously think there's nothing weird about the way females are being portrayed in GBF, you need to watch less anime.

Maybe you should watch more anime. :unsmigghh:

Nothing in this show screams sexist to me, in fact last episodes confrontation with the chairman felt like the complete opposite to me. You had an old rich established man immediately lose his marbles because the pilot he invested so much money in was a girl. She asserts that she's the real deal and will fight whoever to prove the point. She takes on a huge handicap and fights the chairmans best man absolutely wrecking him to the astonishment of the chairman, who immediately takes back everything he said and puts her as the organizations top dog.

SethSeries
Sep 10, 2013



I hate to be that guy, but I'd by lying if I said I really had thought too deep into this show enough to think if it has sexist implications or not. I mean, the thing was marketed to kids as a push to sell toys, and as others have said, it didn't stick out to me anywhere as bad as AGE. The only reason I didn't like Kirara is because I don't like idol characters. China is there to be an audience surrogate, and that's really about as much as I'm taking from it. It's a big, dumb fun show that wound up being way higher quality than I really expected and honestly I'm pretty ok with that. If this means that it does well enough from toy sells to fund the next big Gundam series after the Origin, awesome. If it gets people into a pretty niche hobby that they can derive as much joy from it as myself and others, even better. It's a dumb kids show and isn't pretending to be otherwise. It may have a mostly adult audience in mind, but I'm sure that wasn't the intention at first.

Bimmi
Nov 8, 2009


someday
but not today
I get that China is supposed to be the newbie stand-in, but nothing about that dictates that she be such a boring non-entity. There's no reason she couldn't have been an interesting character in her own right, but so far she is anything but.

My point is not so much SEXISM!!?! (though the idol most definitely and obnoxiously is) as it is 'badly written female characters" which I totally get is nothing new to Gundam, but given that I skipped AGE entirely as well as a lot of other stuff I can't say I've ever seen it quite this bad before. Yes, I dig that it's only eight episodes in but that's still four hours of story and I don't think a little depth from the ladies is too much to ask for. I also dig that things may get better as the story progresses, but I can't exactly judge the show by what might happen and so far it seems that the show writers either can't write interesting women, or they can't be bothered to.

That awesome little kid from upthread may very well watch this show, and the only characters she's likely to see who'd make her think "this person is just like me" are boys. Considering what year it is and what the show is trying to say about the hobby, this is just a sad and a lost opportunity as far as I'm concerned.

Level Slide
Jan 4, 2011

China got into Gunpla because of Sei, but I'm sure she has a better idea of what kind of hobby she got herself mixed in after paying witness to the slugfest between the Build Strike and the Zaku Amazing. Perhaps the upcoming episode, with her Beargguy III standing victorious amid the wreckage of the SD Knight will be the moment where she realizes that she might actually like Gunpla :unsmigghh:

Cao Ni Ma
May 25, 2010



Level Slide posted:

China got into Gunpla because of Sei, but I'm sure she has a better idea of what kind of hobby she got herself mixed in after paying witness to the slugfest between the Build Strike and the Zaku Amazing. Perhaps the upcoming episode, with her Beargguy III standing victorious amid the wreckage of the SD Knight will be the moment where she realizes that she might actually like Gunpla :unsmigghh:

We know that the bearguy III gets a pretty :black101: face for some reason so Im fully expecting some kick rear end coming from it.

Spelling Mitsake
Oct 4, 2007

Clutch Cargo wishes they had Tractor.
I don't know guys. I thought that girl with the Gyan was pretty good.

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Bimmi posted:

Sorry, but I think you can do a little better than that, even if you disregard the pretty good number of female characters in First Gundam who weren't any of that cliched bullshit. And at least Tomino attempted to write real people, even if he often failed. So far in GBF we have one meek, mousey milktoast who is almost entirely passive and has no detectable personality apart from "blushes at the hero," a pink-haired collection of over-the top misogynistic phobias with all the charm of fingernails on a blackboard, and someone who may or may not be an example of yet another insultingly lovely and reductive trope, the "cold emotionless killer bitch." And Sei's mom, who again is the only female character in the show that hasn't been completely loving terrible so far. If you think this is all perfectly okay, then hoo boy am I not on your page or even in your book. I shouldn't even have to EXPLAIN why these characters suck.

And I also shouldn't have to point out that saying this or any other show is better than AGE in terms of the way it treats women is not a compliment, much less an excuse. Framing it in relative terms is a copout anyway, it's still pretty bad in and of itself and is really souring my enjoyment of an otherwise pretty harmless show.

What female characters in MSG escape your rigid criteria of "not sexist"? Matilda existed 100% entirely as a pathos generator for Amuro. Lalah existed as a point of conflict between Char and Amuro and had virtually no agency of her own. Both of these characters were literally created to drive emotional responses and conflict between men. Frau Bow was the definition of a homemaker character. Kycilia was the stereotypical "evil scheming witch". Hamon did absolutely nothing but loving commit suicide the instant her husband died. etc. I shouldn't even have to EXPLAIN why these characters suck. You're fine to have whatever opinions about a show you want, but holding Yoshiyuki motherfucking Tomino up as an example of how to write progressive female characters in 80s Gundam is basically the dumbest thing I've read in ages. This is the man who wrote loving Reccoa and the Shrike Team.

You sure do make extremely judgemental conclusions based on single episode snippets of information where nothing offensive has been shown. Lila literally just got introduced and we spent an entire episode of her wrecking everyone placed against her while *grinning smugly* every time she took someone apart. Her first named entry as a character has her rubbing an obvious misogynist's nose(the director) in his own poo poo. Perhaps we should wait until they explain, I don't know, any single thing about her beyond her name and her Gunpla skills before immediately assuming she's a sexist caricature and stoking the disgusted outrage furnace?

I also really don't understand why Kirara is so horribly offensive. Because she charmed people and cheated while also having a vagina? Look out, Bandai! We don't want any scenes where females do anything negative or are villain characters, because that would be sexist! Her entire relationship with Sei was meant to put forward that she was lying to herself and actually did like gunpla because no one would have put in that much time if they didn't like it on some level. Both Reiji and Sei are totally cool with her despite her cheating to try to knock people out of the tournament and Sei expresses a desire to talk to her again. The point of the episode is that *really unlikely people* can buy and love these stupid toys that they're fencing. If you drew "Ugh, another kyriarchal example of females as deceitful serpents" from it, you're fishing way too hard.

Guys, I think we should get really angry about how Fellini portrays Italians as feminizing idiots, or how Greco portrays Americans as stupid bull-headed idiots. Next we can talk about G Gundam.

BlitzBlast
Jul 30, 2011

some people just wanna watch the world burn
People are getting up in arms about Kirara mostly because she's kind of ripped from the headlines as far as japanese nerd culture goes (there was a recent scandal about several "geek" idols not actually knowing poo poo about a niche hobby and just pretending to to get fans). It's pretty clear she's going to develop into something more, but it wasn't a very nice way to introduce someone. v:shobon:v

Spelling Mitsake posted:

I don't know guys. I thought that girl with the Gyan was pretty good.

Too bad Sazaki's gone for good. :unsmigghh:

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Kanos posted:

I also really don't understand why Kirara is so horribly offensive.

Kirara is literally a reference to the "fake geek girl" thing that is flaring up in both the US and Japan, which is a massively overhyped idea that women are getting into hobbies not because they're fans but because they're trying to leech off the poor innocent male geeks who just can't control themselves around a cute girl. She literally runs down the checklist of these tropes and no amount of 'the characters aren't that mean to her' is going to change that she's a deliberate implementation of a stupid-rear end nerd-fear stereotype in a show which otherwise hasn't provided any counterexamples. The closest is China who, as I mentioned, is getting into Gunpla because she likes Sei. I'm hoping Aila gets to do more but I'm pretty sure she's going to end up being the male counterpart to Reiji. (Totally bitchin' rockass fighter, not really a model builder. Her description on the website says she has no knowledge of Gundam and no experience in Gunpla building but her piloting skill makes up for it.)

She's a bad character (at least so far) because she's basically a walking talking personification of creepy nerd issues. She may develop into a good character but her introduction was really bad.

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Nov 28, 2013

Bimmi
Nov 8, 2009


someday
but not today
I don't know how much more clear I can make it that my issue is not with sexism per se but the quality of the writing. Whatever their shortcomings, the female characters in MSG were characters and not just personality-free cyphers or ridiculous stereotypes. And good job ignoring Sayla and Mirai who are pretty much NOT defined by their "typical female reactions" to the events surrounding them, at least no more so than any normal person would be, but that doesn't exactly fit your argument now does it?

And for fucksake stop trying to justify Kirara because blah blah loving blah, there is absolutely NOTHING defensible or likable about that character as she appeared in ep4, she is basically just a set of negative feminine stereotypes and fantastically irritating to boot. You clearly don't get why this is a problem, so just stop.

I know goons tend to flip out when someone gets feminist chocolate in their nerd peanut butter, but insinuating that characters like Kycilia Zabi or Matilda Ajane or even the Shrike Team are anywhere near as badly written as Kirara or China is just loving bonkers.

Shazaminator
Oct 11, 2007
The power of Shazam compels you!

BlitzBlast posted:

Too bad Sazaki's gone for good. :unsmigghh:

Yeah right. I'm betting we'll see him with a new gunpla before long.

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

ImpAtom posted:

Kirara is literally a reference to the "fake geek girl" thing that is flaring up in both the US and Japan, which is a massively overhyped idea that women are getting into hobbies not because they're fans but because they're trying to leech off the poor innocent male geeks who just can't control themselves around a cute girl. She literally runs down the checklist of these tropes and no amount of 'the characters aren't that mean to her' is going to change that she's a deliberate implementation of a stupid-rear end nerd-fear stereotype in a show which otherwise hasn't provided any counterexamples. The closest is China who, as I mentioned, is getting into Gunpla because she likes Sei.

She's a bad character (at least so far) because she's basically a walking talking personification of creepy nerd issues. She may develop into a good character but her introduction was really bad.

You're entirely right about her introduction. My reasoning for not being annoyed by her is that they're clearly not done with her arc. If she was a one and done, I'd agree wholeheartedly that she was abhorrent, but the only reason for her to still be a character in a show is that they intend to subvert that particular ugly trope. That's why I keep hammering on Sei and Reiji's reaction to her and how she's showing up in the future; I don't think they're planning to stop at "Heh, stupid fake nerd girl got trashed by the REAL nerds". If they don't go any farther than this then I'll gladly retract my sentiment because you and Bimmi will be right.

Bimmi posted:

I don't know how much more clear I can make it that my issue is not with sexism per se but the quality of the writing. Whatever their shortcomings, the female characters in MSG were characters and not just personality-free cyphers or ridiculous stereotypes. And good job ignoring Sayla and Mirai who are pretty much NOT defined by their "typical female reactions" to the events surrounding them, at least no more so than any normal person would be, but that doesn't exactly fit your argument now does it?

And for fucksake stop trying to justify Kirara because blah blah loving blah, there is absolutely NOTHING defensible or likable about that character as she appeared in ep4, she is basically just a set of negative feminine stereotypes and fantastically irritating to boot. You clearly don't get why this is a problem, so just stop.

I know goons tend to flip out when someone gets feminist chocolate in their nerd peanut butter, but insinuating that characters like Kycilia Zabi or Matilda Ajane or even the Shrike Team are anywhere near as badly written as Kirara or China is just loving bonkers.

Mirai is the most reasonable female character in MSG, I will agree. Sayla, also known as Brother Issues: The Character, is not a great example. There are plenty of individual examples of great female characters in old Gundam. Emma, Roux, and Christina stick out. Kayra from CCA would be interesting if she got any sort of screentime. But they're pretty few and far between, usually one per series. I'm not meaning to imply that old Gundam is an anti-feminist hellscape, because it's not. But you're holding it up as a shining example Build Fighters should adhere to, when Build Fighters is 1. 8 episodes in out of 26 2. Has introduced a total of four female characters so far 3. Only one of those female characters has had an episode so far. It's unfortunate that the one who has had screentime was bad, but we're in early days yet.

Please don't generalize people who don't share your opinions into stupid broad groupings. "Oh, GOONS :rolleyes:" is stupid bullshit. I haven't called you a tumblr social warrior and I haven't said "You clearly don't even GET why you're wrong, so I'm not going to engage with you". I have a different opinion than you and I'm saying you should probably wait to see how this shakes out before making detailed character analysis on characters who have had no development or screentime.

Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004

NANI?

Bimmi posted:

I know goons tend to flip out when someone gets feminist chocolate in their nerd peanut butter, but insinuating that characters like Kycilia Zabi or Matilda Ajane or even the Shrike Team are anywhere near as badly written as Kirara or China is just loving bonkers.

Are they better or worse than the Bikini Suicide Squad? I need to update my sexist Gundam poo poo list, tia.

Clever Spambot
Sep 16, 2009

You've lost that lovin' feeling,
Now it's gone...gone...
GONE....
I thought the idea of someone who was working really hard at something they hated in an attempt to get famous was an interesting idea. I didn't realize she was supposed to be some crazy MRA style caricature.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Clever Spambot posted:

I thought the idea of someone who was working really hard at something they hated in an attempt to get famous was an interesting idea. I didn't realize she was supposed to be some crazy MRA style caricature.

It's not a terrible idea for a concept, especially in something like BF which has multiple overlapping fields. It's okay to have someone like Reiji (or it seems Aila) who doesn't care about Gundam but really likes Gunpla Battles because it's completely sensible that you'd have someone who likes one aspect but not the other. It was just a lot of bad execution in this particular case because it's very much playing into a specific stereotype.

I do agree with Kanos that she's probably not done her arc considering she shows up in crowd shots, but we'll have to see how it goes.

Bimmi
Nov 8, 2009


someday
but not today
I can only judge this show by what I've seen and would be more than happy to be proved wrong, but even if Kirara and China turn out to be great characters ep4 is always going to be an embarrassing heap of horseshit.

Sakurazuka posted:

Are they better or worse than the Bikini Suicide Squad? I need to update my sexist Gundam poo poo list, tia.

V actually has a number of decent female characters but it also has this and Shakti Kareen, so eh.

Shinjobi
Jul 10, 2008


Gravy Boat 2k
Anyone who complains about misogyny in this series without watching AGE can take a hike. I don't pretend to think Build Fighters is going to be some shining beacon of progressive treatment of women, but I think it'll still do better than the "women are only good for breeding and dying/motivation" sentiment in AGE.

The Gundam franchise in general has been bad/weird with their worst female characters, but nothing in Build Fighters SO FAR has given me any cause for alarm. Let the women actually develop before you lose your mind.

This argument is sending me right back to GBS 2.1 though, goodness gracious.

Fred is on
Dec 25, 2007

Riders...
IN SPACE!

Shinjobi posted:

Anyone who complains about misogyny in this series without watching AGE can take a hike. I don't pretend to think Build Fighters is going to be some shining beacon of progressive treatment of women, but I think it'll still do better than the "women are only good for breeding and dying/motivation" sentiment in AGE.

As has been said before, that's about as low as you could possibly set the bar. If you claim that something isn't that bad in comparison to the most blatant, over-the-top example available, there might be a problem.

As I said earlier in the thread, this show combines Gundam with sports shounen, so I didn't go in expecting much in the way of strong female characters. So far I think it's being more or less par for the course as far as Gundam and, really, anime in general goes. It's a shame, and it wouldn't have been all that hard to fix, as people are pointing out, but I do agree that Bimmi might be a wee bit hyperbolic here.

GET IN THE ROBOT
Nov 28, 2007

JUST GET IN THE FUCKING ROBOT SHINJI
Bimmi, we know you're trying to prove how awesome and progressive you are, but you're really making a mountain out of a molehill. Feminism and strong female characters are great and should be in greater abundance, and I think we're all in agreement here when it comes to that, but you also have to pick and choose your battles or else you wind up looking like a fool.

Kiara and China are not the best, most progressive characters out there, but the show is honestly pretty innocuous as far as sexism goes and lashing out at every minor thing makes you look bad and honestly hurts your argument. If you want to lash out at something legitimately hosed up, watch AGE. Or the rapey episode of Valvrave. Build Fighters is a fairly innocent kid's show.

And really, anime in general doesn't often have strong female characters, because the culture isn't exactly progressive when it comes to that. You know, it sucks, but that's the just case. I don't really expect that in a Gundam show, and I'm honestly really just glad that Sei's mom acts like an actual human being.

Sharkopath
May 27, 2009

Bimmi posted:

And for fucksake stop trying to justify Kirara because blah blah loving blah, there is absolutely NOTHING defensible or likable about that character as she appeared in ep4, she is basically just a set of negative feminine stereotypes and fantastically irritating to boot. You clearly don't get why this is a problem, so just stop.

I dunno, I actually really liked Mihoshi and want her to show up in more episodes and hopefully get an actual arc to counteract how she was treated in episode 4.
(I said this before in the thread but even though she is basically a stand in for FAKE GEEK GIRL, the fact that the show writers specifically mentioned that she watched literally all of gundams everywhere and has memorized every mobile suit name is the really weird, specific detail that leads me to think that that's she might be intended to be more of a criticism of that idea than a lambasted example. But then again she's only showed up in one episode so far so who knows?)

edit: I mean that its 'specific' in the sense that the scene is framed really sympathetically, showing her exhaustion and frustration with the scope of this absolutely insane, monolithic quest of hers. I'm a dude so my opinion ain't worth squat but I couldn't really sense any actual malice in the character's reactions toward her either.

Sharkopath fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Nov 29, 2013

TARDISman
Oct 28, 2011



Shazaminator posted:

Yeah right. I'm betting we'll see him with a new gunpla before long.

Hey, that doesn't have nearly enough shields for Sazaki's fighting style. The boy needs enough of the suckers that a Roman phalanx would look at it and go "drat dude, ease up on the protection."

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

GyaGyanGar, of course.

muike
Mar 16, 2011

ガチムチ セブン
I appreciate the way they've approached the model kits in Build Fighters as compared to Gunpla Builders because those were so fucken boring.

BlitzBlast
Jul 30, 2011

some people just wanna watch the world burn


The Gyan redesign meme is probably one of the best things to come out of this show.



Though that doesn't mean the suit gets any respect. :v:

Ethiser
Dec 31, 2011

I really hope that in the last few episodes when all hope to win the tournament seems lost a Gyan swoops in to save the day. I also hope there is a team that only uses mass produced Big Zam.

Level Slide
Jan 4, 2011

Although the feminism discussion has passed, what's the over-under on G-Reko suits getting a cameo? Does G-Reko even have any confirmed mobile suit designs?

I guess the space elevator can be a possible battlefield if nothing else is set in stone. Assuming the space elevator is an actual space elevator and not a metaphor.

Level Slide fucked around with this message at 05:04 on Nov 29, 2013

BlitzBlast
Jul 30, 2011

some people just wanna watch the world burn
I'd say incredibly unlikely since there are no G-Reko kits. We might see a space elevator in time to advertise RG Exia though.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Level Slide posted:

Although the feminism discussion has passed, what's the over-under on G-Reko suits getting a cameo? Does G-Reko even have any confirmed mobile suit designs?

I guess the space elevator can be a possible battlefield if nothing else is set in stone. Assuming the space elevator is an actual space elevator and not a metaphor.

Very very unlikely. G-Reko is still a weird concept thing without anything clear for them to make kits or cameos of.

We might see something from the next Gundam series ala Wing showing up in G, but it depends. The two current ongoing rumors about new Gundam things are The Origin and a SEED movie being announced at the end of SEED Destiny HD, both of which would be ripe for some kind of cameo considering the main units in BF are UC and SEED, but I wouldn't hold my breath. (Origin already has some kits but I'm sure there will be TV Version Kits if it actually exists.)

Sharkopath
May 27, 2009

Tomino is actually the shadow-producer of Build Fighters, this entire show is just a direct prequel to Reconquista of G.
e: vvvvv - The mid-season tone shift is gonna be a hell of a doozy.

Sharkopath fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Nov 29, 2013

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muike
Mar 16, 2011

ガチムチ セブン

Sharkopath posted:

Tomino is actually the shadow-producer of Build Fighters, this entire show is just a direct prequel to Reconquista of G.

I'm pretty sure he would rather kill himself.

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