|
Like I said, Aside from denying that market, what could they do?
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2013 07:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 16:46 |
|
|
Hahaha what market? Mainland China doesn't buy software.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2013 08:19
|
|
|
They could also profit a poo poo tonne of money from that as well. Short sell a bunch of Blizzard stocks. Block the latest World of Warcraft expansion and cause a massive drop in potential profit which in turns drop shareholder confidence and shareholder price for Blizzard. After the initial price shock of the stock and windfall, they can repurchase the shares and allow the game expansion to release. When share prices go up they make a second burst of profit margin. SARFT is a bitch to deal with. Wrath of the Lichking was delayed by what? 2-3 years? Because of "skeletons are a bad cultural influence". Probably something to do with bribe money
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2013 08:19
|
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:Hahaha what market? Mainland China doesn't buy software. Just because piracy is rampant doesn't mean people don't buy legit videogames. It's the main argument against strong anti-piracy controls. (That, and the issues with converting reductions in piracy into new sales). I mean, the Chinese market from all accounts is, outside of the F2P stuff, small compared to what it could be, but it exists. Also, F2P is the ~future~ and the Chinese F2P market is pretty huge.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2013 09:50
|
|
|
MJ12 posted:Just because piracy is rampant doesn't mean people don't buy legit videogames. Steam figured out how to make it work in Russia, and there's definitely a market for it in China, but PRC controls over the internet and software restrictions are a huge hurdle to adopt a similar practice.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2013 10:22
|
|
|
MJ12 posted:Potsdam also, given its context, stripped Japan of all sovereign rights to any islands which weren't specifically stated (it was basically "you can't keep anything you conquered", now shoo). The issue is more complicated than it first appears, but not by too much. e: loving around; Kristof has the much stronger counter-argument vis-a-vis terra nullius. Still pretty obviously a landgrab in my opinion; international law remains international law, even if you got screwed by it. Kristof says "However, per post-WW II arrangements, Japan was required to surrender territories obtained from aggression and revert them to their pre-1895 legal status," but the simple fact of the matter is that's not what the Treaty actually says. The islands were Chinese, but by international recognition, they're Japanese. China should fight it in court, not on the sea. Doubling-down on ADIZ to try and end-run the Treaty is frankly just as immature as Japan having seized the islands in the first place, and bespeaks a power a bit too drunk on its own newfound image of itself. China was a victim of abuse and imperialism at many hands, sure, but that's not going to help them try and break all sorts of international norms, be it abrogating San Francisco, establishing a bizarro-ADIZ, ignoring UNCLOS, or whatever. Tough break, but poor strategy. Dux Supremus fucked around with this message at 13:59 on Nov 29, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2013 13:23
|
|
|
WarpedNaba posted:Like I said, Aside from denying that market, what could they do? Deny them other media markets. It's not like these are highly principled artists or something. They care about making money and/or looking like they're not screwing up to their bosses, so denying access and the fear of future denials requiring more money and favors to fix is pretty much the worst thing that could happen to them. If you greenlight something that causes protest from the Ministry of Culture, you bet your superiors will be up your butt about it even while you argue that it's a tiny market right now and you aren't losing that much revenue, because sucking up to China to get more access to their market as it expands is a real big deal, and because execs in general are incredibly risk averse and any hint of trouble can be considered a sign of bad decision making.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2013 16:17
|
|
|
Dux Supremus posted:Who cares what was said at Potsdam when the Treaty of San Francisco, which actually officially ended WWII, specifically did not divest Japan of the Senkaku Islands? Article 2 goes into very explicit detail as to what territories Japan is losing; the Senkakus (as part of Nansei Shoto) are only mentioned in Article 3, as regards their administration by the US. The Treaty also clearly does not consider them to be included with Formosa and the Pescadores. Now, admittedly, nobody from the PRC or RoC attended, but this outcome wasn't exactly "secret" and so the US reversion of the territory doesn't exactly come as a surprise given the Treaty text. A declaration made in wartime doesn't overwrite a binding international treaty made at the end of the war and so both Yabuki Susumu and Stephen Harner are hilariously wrong; sovereignty was never revoked. Neither even mentions the Treaty of San Francisco. This point is even made in the Forbes comments section. As I understand it, the treaty doesn't specifically mention the Diaoyus/Senkakus at all, which means that Potsdam isn't explicitly contradicted (or they'd have no potential issue-they didn't raise the Treaty of San Francisco even though it exists because of that lack of specific mention). If Potsdam wasn't contradicted, and the territory was reverted then unilaterally but not specifically formalized by the Treaty of San Francisco, that means that everything here is a loving mess and it'd have been nice if China and Taiwan were there back then so this issue would have been resolved nearly 70 years ago. quote:The islands were Chinese, but by international recognition, they're Japanese. China should fight it in court, not on the sea. Doubling-down on ADIZ to try and end-run the Treaty is frankly just as immature as Japan having seized the islands in the first place, and bespeaks a power a bit too drunk on its own newfound image of itself. China was a victim of abuse and imperialism at many hands, sure, but that's not going to help them try and break all sorts of international norms, be it abrogating San Francisco, establishing a bizarro-ADIZ, ignoring UNCLOS, or whatever. Tough break, but poor strategy. As I understand about China's appreciation of international law (or "appreciation of international law"), a lot of Chinese are of the opinion that the west blatantly engages in "lawfare", and thus any attempt to fight it in the courts would be de facto equivalent to handing the Japanese the islands with a bow on it because the courts and laws are biased towards the US/Japan/etc. This is, again, fairly vague and I wouldn't take it as definitive, I have pretty limited contact with Chinese law types, but it's the impression I've got with a lot of their stuff. The Taiwanese aren't so cynical about it, but they have China very strongly in their boat for this one, which would probably explain why they don't want to submit it, they think the massive economic and military pressure China's exerting for them might get Japan to unilaterally give them a ton of concessions (and they're right, I think Japan allowed Taiwan to fish in a ton of disputed waters now) so that'd explain why they don't want to put it up for arbitration, and the Japanese don't think their claim is nearly as strong as they say it is, so they don't want to risk actually losing it, so they don't put it up to the ICJ. Again, I'm not entirely sure if this is right, but from my limited contact with Chinese lawyer types I get the feeling that there's a lot of distrust over 'international law' there. If the Philippines lose their case in the ICJ, though, maybe that might change things. I don't know. The Philippine case seems a lot stronger than the Japanese one though. Although as I understand what they really want to declare is that the Chinese structures are on rocks, not islands or something, which might change things? tl;dr: International law is a loving mess and I don't know anything about it 
MJ12 fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Nov 29, 2013 |
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2013 19:49
|
|
|
Thank you for this, it was very informative.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2013 20:31
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9T_AoUe44g The government sure has a ton of consultations that they don't seem to actually care about.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2013 05:44
|
|
|
"Let's discuss on the basis of the Basic Law" The basic law says that China can basically appoint all the candidates meaning any that get elected are chosen by China. End of discussion.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2013 05:48
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6g0RoiW_HS0 This poo poo pisses me off so much because it's so horrifically inhumane, but there's absolutely no political will to make any changes or actually enforce existing laws. Like they show in the video, all this horrible poo poo is illegal already, but it doesn't matter because the maids don't know they can/are too scared to actually do anything to report that illegal poo poo is going down and the system is actually so hosed up that pushing any legal action could leave them [more] destitute [than they already are] because they can't work while legal action is pending and it takes forever. But these people have no franchise (by design, confirmed by last year's legal case), pay no taxes and are highly expendable (the door was opened to Bangladeshi domestic workers last year, just in case the Filipinos get too uppity) so there is no reason for anyone in power to actually help them. And in fact any movement to make conditions better for them would piss off the middle class who are already on the verge of revolt because the economic system is slowly (quickly?) crushing them to death. Deep State of Mind fucked around with this message at 11:28 on Dec 8, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2013 11:25
|
|
|
Would a middle class/working class revolt in HK, against the Hong Kong elite specifically, be perceived as a revolt against the Mainland government? I mean what would Beijing do? edit: What do you, personally, do if you know or suspect someone you know is underpaying or mistreating their maid? VideoTapir fucked around with this message at 15:09 on Dec 8, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2013 12:28
|
|
|
VideoTapir posted:Would a middle class/working class revolt in HK, against the Hong Kong elite specifically, be perceived as a revolt against the Mainland government? I mean what would Beijing do? If I were the CCP, I would deploy people to quell the uprisings and use it as an excuse to usurp power from the HK government.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2013 15:50
|
|
|
If the CCP had to resort to a military response to a HK uprising, that's pretty much an admission to the world (But especially Taiwan) that their system is poo poo. Massive propaganda loss in all fields.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2013 21:28
|
|
|
Bloodnose posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6g0RoiW_HS0 The argument I've always heard from friends and family is that these people come here by choice and they earn more than what a doctor in their respective countries would earn. They agree that there are issues with sexual/physical abuse and ill treatment but the government should be going after the non-complying agencies themselves and punishing them instead of trying to help the foreign domestic workers achieve minimum wage or seek residency. There's also the fact that they're a small minority as well being non-Han Chinese (although you probably wouldn't notice it if you were in Central on a Sunday). As such, everyone pretty much shits on the maids. VideoTapir posted:edit: What do you, personally, do if you know or suspect someone you know is underpaying or mistreating their maid? I grew up with a maid as did my family and friends in their different households and it really depends. At best they're treated as another member of your family but at worst they're treated pretty much like a piece of background furniture or an electrical appliance. There's generally a lot of open (and often racist) bitching about their helpers from theft to their cost to their quest for residency but I don't think anyone is going to willingly admit to physically or sexually abusing their maids in front of friends and family and the maid certainly isn't going to ask for help. There are hotlines you can call to lodge a complaint but it's hard to tell what really happens in someone's household.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 00:48
|
|
|
Like Kegslayer says, it's pretty unlikely you're ever going to know someone is beating or raping their maid. If I knew someone who was? Yeah, I'd probably call a hotline or the police. But then again, would that just make things worse? Would the police show up, the maid, out of fear, says "no, nothing happened" and then gets beaten so much more severely for what the employer assumes was her calling the police? It's an impossibly lovely situation.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 03:30
|
|
|
I'm sure there is a better procedure out there for domestic abuse in Hong Kong other than "police showing up" if the situation is not immediately violent. I honestly can't tell if that would be the case considering what HKers think of Southeast Asians in general, but I think doing something is always better than doing nothing. Domestic helpers get badly treated by government policies, but I've met some that enjoyed being here rather than living in Indonesia. Kill All Cops fucked around with this message at 04:31 on Dec 9, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 04:26
|
|
|
Lady Galaga posted:I'm sure there is a better procedure out there for domestic abuse in Hong Kong other than "police showing up" if the situation is not immediately violent. I honestly can't tell if that would be the case considering what HKers think of Southeast Asians in general, but I think doing something is always better than doing nothing. The only helpers who probably enjoy it are the ones working for grateful and magnanimous people, and who probably get paid more then the minimum. I don't think that's a good representative sample of how most domestic workers are treated. Since it's not like the gov't tries to keep track of or ensure their well-being there's no way to really know how bad it is.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 05:49
|
|
|
pentyne posted:The only helpers who probably enjoy it are the ones working for grateful and magnanimous people, and who probably get paid more then the minimum. I don't think that's a good representative sample of how most domestic workers are treated. Since it's not like the gov't tries to keep track of or ensure their well-being there's no way to really know how bad it is. I don't think it's that bad. A lot of domestic foreign workers opt to work in HK because the pay is significantly better than what they'd get at home and the arrangement is quite appealing (full time job with free accommodation and pretty much all expenses paid) compared to what they could find in say the Philippines. Most, if not all, will send money home and be the main source of income for their family. If you've never had a maid or a domestic worker, it's hard to understand or describe the relationship or how things work. It's normally just a young to middle aged woman who lives in your house (normally in the kids room or laundry due to a general lack of space) who does an agreed upon set of chores and who disappears every Sunday to go to mass or meet her friends and shop at World Wide House. At best, she'll be another mother or the main source of care for your children and at worst, she'll be the seen as the equivalent of a vending machine who provides a number of agreed upon services for you and your family when you ask her to. It's understood that she should be happy to take on extra chores when needed and that you'd also be happy to accommodate her needs and requests (and red pockets where appropriate). It's pretty much just a professional transactional relationship like you'd have with your hairdresser or the person who scans your groceries. Both parties know what's expected of them and will act accordinly. The problem comes when you have sociopaths and really hosed up people who think they're the equivalent of a slave or a servant. A normal person wouldn't beat/rape their employees or force them to wear a diaper while chained to a chair when you go on holidays. That's why there's such a lack of support for their rights and in cases where they get abused. Despite the statistics that something like 25% of workers get physically, verbally or sexually abused, people just don't care because it's hard to imagine that your family and friends could be capable of such things, especially when you don't really see them interact like that at all. On top of that, as Bloodnose as said, the maid isn't going to lodge a formal complaint since she'll most likely lose her job meaning her family will lose their main source of income.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 08:09
|
|
|
Kegslayer posted:I don't think it's that bad. A lot of domestic foreign workers opt to work in HK because the pay is significantly better than what they'd get at home and the arrangement is quite appealing (full time job with free accommodation and pretty much all expenses paid) compared to what they could find in say the Philippines. Most, if not all, will send money home and be the main source of income for their family. I was raised for a time as a child as an expat in Indonesia and my family employed a couple of maids. They were loving troopers who put with me and my lovely siblings always with a smile and never a complaint. They cooked, cleaned, and raised us and now years later it infuriates me that they weren't even making US minimum wage (for the 80s) because holy poo poo did they do the work for it. This foreign maid culture has to end at some point because my god is it exploitative.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 08:17
|
|
|
It will not end as long as extreme economic differences exist between countries.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 10:49
|
|
|
VideoTapir posted:Would a middle class/working class revolt in HK, against the Hong Kong elite specifically, be perceived as a revolt against the Mainland government? I mean what would Beijing do? Dunno about the mainland government but here's CY Leung's answer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M36TOhke86I (zero views when I found it  )
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 11:40
|
|
|
In terms of the spreading of Chinese culture through media, this has been something I've been thinking of for a while. Though I was (and still am) critical of a lot of the government's approach towards culture, and have told them as much, I've come to realise whatever they do they're probably onto a losing prospect as far as any established media are concerned. How many people in any English speaking country could name more than handful of non-English language novels or films? Titans of cinema they might be but I'd be surprised if more than 10% of people in English speaking countries have seen a single Goddard, Bergman or Kurosawa film. Even translated novels by the likes of Garcia-Marquez, Kundera or Hesse have probably only been read by a tiny fraction of those who've read stuff by Grisham, Clancy or Le Carre. The simple fact that is that cinema, novels and most other forms of media are utterly dominated by English speaking countries, in particular the US, and I don't see that changing. Looking back, it seems no rising country has ever successfully asserted cultural dominance in an existing medium, especially if they come from a different language background. Imperial Britain never really managed to make a dent in the existing high arts of painting, opera and orchestral music but instead transmitted their culture in the new media of vulgar theatre and the novel. The USA, in turn, couldn't really compete in those areas (initially) but became dominant in the new media of film, TV and recorded music. Then Japan found its niche in the new media of video games and animation. I guess what I'm saying is that if China is going to have a hope of developing some kind of great cultural soft power, they're going to have to either wait for a new medium to develop or invent one themselves. Yeah, good luck with the second option.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 11:47
|
|
|
How are u posted:I was raised for a time as a child as an expat in Indonesia and my family employed a couple of maids. They were loving troopers who put with me and my lovely siblings always with a smile and never a complaint. They cooked, cleaned, and raised us and now years later it infuriates me that they weren't even making US minimum wage (for the 80s) because holy poo poo did they do the work for it. This foreign maid culture has to end at some point because my god is it exploitative. Any actual abuse is, of course, inexcusable, but I don't see why it's necessary, or even desired, to go by US minimum wage, rather than something reasonable by local standards. If an Australian wanted to hire a domestic helper here (Czech Republic) and followed that rule, they'd be paying more than most PhD-level professionals and lower-mid management earn. That's nice and all, but you can probably see why this would make the existing brain drain ever worse, and that was hardly an example of extreme inequality.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 13:16
|
|
|
Bloodnose posted:Dunno about the mainland government but here's CY Leung's answer: This city is hosed.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 13:19
|
|
|
How are u posted:I was raised for a time as a child as an expat in Indonesia and my family employed a couple of maids. They were loving troopers who put with me and my lovely siblings always with a smile and never a complaint. They cooked, cleaned, and raised us and now years later it infuriates me that they weren't even making US minimum wage (for the 80s) because holy poo poo did they do the work for it. This foreign maid culture has to end at some point because my god is it exploitative. I'm pretty sure there are a lot of upper middle class people in the western world who'd happily pay their respective country's minimum wage for a live in domestic helper. I'm all for the maids in Hong Kong getting minimum wage and some kind of path to residency but I don't see it happen or even the domestic workers themselves been willing to push the issue further since they're getting paid more than they would in their home countries. Daduzi posted:In terms of the spreading of Chinese culture through media, this has been something I've been thinking of for a while. Though I was (and still am) critical of a lot of the government's approach towards culture, and have told them as much, I've come to realise whatever they do they're probably onto a losing prospect as far as any established media are concerned. How many people in any English speaking country could name more than handful of non-English language novels or films? There's actually a lot of money flowing into pushing Chinese culture and media into Asia but everything's kind of being overtaken by the Hallyu Wave. You have Korean music regularly show up in say Oricon and KKBox but never vice versa. There's also the fact that so many Asian musicians, writers and actors haven't been able to make any headway outside of Asia so they've just given up on reaching new markets and focus on taking a bigger share of the existing one. It's easier to just sell your existing product to a third party which will use it to make a new Western version of your product than to make an Asian product with the Western market in mind. I agree with parts of what you're saying but I'd argue that cinema and novels are dominated by the US simply because the English speaking market is larger and more mature. American's seem to only be comfortable with English and so are stuck in that market but given time and population trends, I think other countries in the world will be able to find a way to exert their influence to challenge that of the US with the existing mediums we have. Whether China is one of those countries is anyone's guess.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 13:29
|
|
|
Kegslayer posted:I'm pretty sure there are a lot of upper middle class people in the western world who'd happily pay their respective country's minimum wage for a live in domestic helper. I'm all for the maids in Hong Kong getting minimum wage and some kind of path to residency but I don't see it happen or even the domestic workers themselves been willing to push the issue further since they're getting paid more than they would in their home countries. The question is wether America's cultural influence would actually wane in that scenario or if "challenges" from other nations would just be incorporated into the same cultural system. Ultimately, English as a medium of communication is going to continue to give the US a lot of influence and if anything the fact English already has the global momentum it already has probably means it isn't going to be easily replaced especially since even outside the "core" Anglosphere English is used so commonly in many parts of the world that aren't native speakers (for example large parts of Europe and Africa). If you talk about about raw population then you have India in which English is the language of business and government. If anything the US will continue to have an oversized influence since English will continue to kick around because there really isn't anything to replace it with and you need a lingua-franca in a globalized world. Why wouldn't India switch over to Mandarin as the language of business even if China has a bigger GDP in the future? Some business might learn Mandarin (or not) but basically China would have to dominate the world to an even greater extent than the US did and I don't see it happening. At very least American culture will have a "home turf" advantage with English acting as a gatekeeper. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Dec 9, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 14:07
|
|
|
Daduzi posted:Looking back, it seems no rising country has ever successfully asserted cultural dominance in an existing medium, especially if they come from a different language background. Imperial Britain never really managed to make a dent in the existing high arts of painting, opera and orchestral music but instead transmitted their culture in the new media of vulgar theatre and the novel. The USA, in turn, couldn't really compete in those areas (initially) but became dominant in the new media of film, TV and recorded music. Then Japan found its niche in the new media of video games and animation. If they wanna go the Bollywood route and aim for Africa or just focus on their periphery, there's lots of avenues for expansion, but that poo poo ain't quick and it requires you to already have a thriving and strong internal market and production of said media. Japan had both before starting to export it: What the gently caress does China have, other than the classics?
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 15:21
|
|
|
Deceitful Penguin posted:I'm not gonna disagree with your assessment on English speaking countries, although I can think of several avenues of attack there, but just point out that there's vast swathes of the world that aren't English speaking, including the entire continent of Europe, where you have a long history of translated novels, movies and other media being imported. Japan especially is an example in literature where everyone and their mum has read Murakami, with the likelyhood increasing in the Germanic part of Europe. There is a shitload of Japanese novels, as I found out when I had to write about one for an assignment; the library had shelves full of that poo poo: I just didn't know about it because it was mostly crime novels and those are dull as hell. And they "broke in" with their animation and comics simply by aggressively marketing it since the 80s. It had nothing to do with "niché" as that poo poo was being made by a shitload of others at the same time and to this day. And it still took more than 30 years before they achieved any significant influence. I wouldn't necessary count Europe as "not English speaking" even if it isn't the primary language outside of the UK (and Ireland). Ardennes fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Dec 9, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 15:31
|
|
|
Deceitful Penguin posted:What the gently caress does China have, other than the classics? There was a good Sinica podcast on last month about the Chinese publishing industry in which Chinese writers were somewhat panned. Partly for being very China-absorbed and not writing things that were accessible to a foreign audience, but mostly because editing barely exists either as a profession or a part of the writing process and Chinese authors are currently publishing first drafts more or less.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 16:02
|
|
|
I saw a crowd of Indonesian helpers holding some sort of a rally/protest in (where else) CWB a couple Sundays ago. Anyone better informed than me know what that was all about? I'm guessing a path to residency?
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 16:43
|
|
|
Residency is dead. It went to Final Appeal last year and lost. Barring an interpretation from Beijing, helpers will never get permanent residency. The Thursday thing was about a just-released Amnesty International report that Indonesian (dunno why it focused on them specifically) domestic helpers experience slave-like conditions (see the video I shared above). Here is the report.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 16:52
|
|
|
Bloodnose posted:Residency is dead. It went to Final Appeal last year and lost. Barring an interpretation from Beijing, helpers will never get permanent residency. The Thursday thing was about a just-released Amnesty International report that Indonesian (dunno why it focused on them specifically) domestic helpers experience slave-like conditions (see the video I shared above). Yeah, so basically more or less legalized slavery.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 16:55
|
|
|
Daduzi posted:In terms of the spreading of Chinese culture through media, this has been something I've been thinking of for a while. Though I was (and still am) critical of a lot of the government's approach towards culture, and have told them as much, I've come to realise whatever they do they're probably onto a losing prospect as far as any established media are concerned. How many people in any English speaking country could name more than handful of non-English language novels or films? Animation isn't exactly a new medium, though. It's been around for long-rear end time and there were a ton of established classics/juggernauts of the genre like Disney, Warner Bros, etc. when Japan started out. The big thing is money - Japan spends money on animation. There's a strong domestic market for it (originally as a cheaper alternative to films) and there's cultural and language market barriers that keeps foreign animation and alternative media less competitive. What you see as the colonization of new market niches, I see as simply accidentally reflecting the technology-driven economic/market changes in the popular media industry. With a growing middle-class, there was more money to be made in vulgar theater and the novel than by making artistic paintings for wealthy patrons by the time Imperial Britain rose to prominence. Recorded music and films are more profitable and reach a wider audience than theater, and by the time the US became wealthy enough to start developing competitive art they were the premiere media. Also, to expand on another post, reason Korean media is becoming such a big deal is because its heavily subsidized by the state as a way to build soft power and develop non-industrial/manufacturing cultural industries. They're actively developing talent in both the technical and artistic areas of media production, allowing promising directors serious artistic autonomy to go with their financing. And on the technical side, look at the cast rolls for korean films - even 20 years ago many of the technical roles were still Hong Kongers, and now they're predominantly native. Apparently it's also gaining an audience in the developing world as far out as africa. Cultural industries are arguably no different from other industries. They will develop if government invests in them (financing, expertise, infrastructure) and maintains market conditions that allow them to grow initially without being crushed by well-established outside competitors (language, cultural, and trade barriers). These conditions are hard to come by in english-speakign and other westner countries because of the relatively small size of language and cultural barriers to US media, along with open trade and press policies. If anything, because of the size of the Chinese market and aforementioned barriers, China is well-placed to develop its own media presence as the money to be made there increases so long as the government and finance sector doesn't gently caress it up. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Dec 9, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 17:21
|
|
|
Ardennes posted:I wouldn't necessary count Europe as "not English speaking" even if it isn't the primary language outside of the UK (and Ireland). Arglebargle III posted:There was a good Sinica podcast on last month about the Chinese publishing industry in which Chinese writers were somewhat panned. Partly for being very China-absorbed and not writing things that were accessible to a foreign audience, but mostly because editing barely exists either as a profession or a part of the writing process and Chinese authors are currently publishing first drafts more or less.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 18:37
|
|
|
If the prevailing elements in your cultural exports are "exoticness" then you aren't really exporting your culture; you're exporting a curiosity that might hold people's attention but won't really influence them. Accessibility and cosmopolitanism are pretty critical in any cultural export that you're hoping will create cultural influence. It's one of the reasons that for all its successes, Japanese cultural exports have struggled to gain influence other than niche influence.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 22:10
|
|
|
Deceitful Penguin posted:Well, uhh, aside from the Nordics and maaaybe the Low Countries, English language media is a very small minority of media produced and consumed, especially in English. Anecdote: The library for 36K folks in Germany had a smaller English language section than my Icelandic town of 8K. Overwhelmingly media was in German and this applies to all of the larger countries in W-Europe. The fact that many Europeans know English is going to effect their appetites for foreign media even if it doesn't replace their native tongue. Europeans are by and large converts to the Anglosphere just through the expansion of English education and I have seen it first hand, when I am abroad and I talk with people in their 20/30s from the EU is always in English without major difficulty. It is completely different in the former USSR, but if anything Russian there works in a similar manner. Language has a cultural force and even if you consume culture in your native tongue, it is more than likely than English is going to still be lurking around. Anyway, the question is about penetration and no other language is nearly as close as English as far as penetration around the world. The point isn't that English or American culture is awesome but cultural shifts are going to be more subtle because it has to work through the sheer power of momentum at this point which isn't likely to go away and probably will intensify. Yeah, Anime and Japanese video games have some influence among a very select group of people but it is ultimately pretty limited.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 22:31
|
|
|
Deceitful Penguin posted:If they wanna go the Bollywood route and aim for Africa or just focus on their periphery, there's lots of avenues for expansion, but that poo poo ain't quick and it requires you to already have a thriving and strong internal market and production of said media. Japan had both before starting to export it: What the gently caress does China have, other than the classics? I think this is the biggest problem with Chinese media at the minute. The domestic and Asian market only want Asian themes and settings so successful media is of a limited genre. A modern book like Wolf Totem that really resonated within China would struggle outside of Asia due to it's China-centric themes and lack of marketing/publishing. You have big budget movies but they're either remakes of the four great classical novels or some form of domestic comedy where the jokes may not translate across. Ardennes posted:Yeah, so basically more or less legalized slavery. It's not that bad. There are laws to protect domestic workers but the dodgy employment agencies and the lack of political and social support and protection means that it's hard for a maid to get out of a bad work situation or make an official complaint.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 23:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 16:46 |
|
|
Fojar38 posted:If the prevailing elements in your cultural exports are "exoticness" then you aren't really exporting your culture; you're exporting a curiosity that might hold people's attention but won't really influence them. Accessibility and cosmopolitanism are pretty critical in any cultural export that you're hoping will create cultural influence. It's one of the reasons that for all its successes, Japanese cultural exports have struggled to gain influence other than niche influence. Japanese culture has had a lot of influence in the design world and other artistic areas. You just don't notice it because its been for the most part fully integrated and those elements are not marked or marketed as outwardly japanese. Also, exoticness is only tolerated if it fits within existing stereotypes. Otherwise it's just sort of ignored or downplayed when selling something.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2013 00:11
|
|