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Vagabundo posted:Also, Quark was married to Grilka, and definitely had a shag with her at least once during the series. Yeah, but you see, Ferengi dicks are
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Dec 1, 2013 00:13
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1st AD posted:Yeah, but you see, Ferengi dicks are Quark liked his Oo-moxes with a little teeth.
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Dec 1, 2013 00:20
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Otisburg posted:Kira Nerys has more interesting conflict and backstory than any two TNG characters and has a pretty cool arc throughout the series. True but they also never shut the gently caress up about her backstory and we get a lot of redundant episodes about her trying not to forgive the Cardassians. Including one where Dukat calls her says "I hosed your mom" and hangs up, at which point she goes back in time to scold her mother. Who the gently caress approved her using the Orb of Time to see her mom get hosed anyway?
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Dec 1, 2013 00:37
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Otisburg posted:Man the last time anyone was this wrong about something they ended up spending their honeymoon dead in a ditch on fire outside the furherbunker while the Soviets marched through Berlin. That was quite a witty Hitler reference  Kira isn't more interesting than Data, but I dunno I'm only S1 E6. We'll see.
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Dec 1, 2013 00:45
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LeafyOrb posted:True but they also never shut the gently caress up about her backstory and we get a lot of redundant episodes about her trying not to forgive the Cardassians. Including one where Dukat calls her says "I hosed your mom" and hangs up, at which point she goes back in time to scold her mother. This was the most grating part of DS9 for me. And, for all the depth it gets credit for, the only villain that's not two dimensional is Dukat (who is, granted, a helluva villain). The Cardassians are cutout evil. The Dominion is cutout evil.
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Dec 1, 2013 00:48
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The Founders are like Krikketers. As individuals, they can be charming and polite, but put them in a group, and suddenly the universe poses an existential threat to them.
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Dec 1, 2013 00:54
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"The Hunted" is on BBCA and this is a bad prop moment. That's not even a button he's pressing and the cover isn't even attached to anything.  That's my Trek sperg for today.
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Dec 1, 2013 00:57
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Mister Kingdom posted:"The Hunted" is on BBCA and this is a bad prop moment. That's not even a button he's pressing and the cover isn't even attached to anything. Watching this too actually I like how that guy shoots a wall later on and there's not a mark on it when they cut back to it.
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Dec 1, 2013 01:00
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Mister Kingdom posted:"The Hunted" is on BBCA and this is a bad prop moment. That's not even a button he's pressing and the cover isn't even attached to anything. Maybe we lost hinge and button technology during World War III, you insensitive bastard.
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Dec 1, 2013 01:00
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Mister Kingdom posted:"The Hunted" is on BBCA and this is a bad prop moment. That's not even a button he's pressing and the cover isn't even attached to anything. Shows how much you understand about 24th century technology. Why, I bet you wouldn't recognize a self-sealing stem bolt if it was staring you in the face!
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Dec 1, 2013 01:07
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Vagabundo posted:Maybe we lost hinge and button technology during World War III, you insensitive bastard. Alternate universe Geordi would beg to differ! 
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Dec 1, 2013 01:11
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Mister Kingdom posted:"The Hunted" is on BBCA and this is a bad prop moment. That's not even a button he's pressing and the cover isn't even attached to anything. capacitive touch buttons and magnets, duh.
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Dec 1, 2013 01:16
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Mister Kingdom posted:Alternate universe Geordi would beg to differ! Not all universes had WWIII, duh.
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Dec 1, 2013 01:25
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Tony Montana posted:Kira isn't more interesting than Data psssssshhhhhh "Hi I am a fake man and I cannot understand how real humans do [thing]." *misunderstands common idiomatic expression in spite of having encyclopedic knowledge of Federation culture.* *Has basic element of human condition explained to him, maybe HE's the most human one of us all!* -every Data scene/episode ever I can totally see how a robosperg is way more interesting than a former guerrilla fighter trying to come to terms with being "The Man" while also reconciling her belief that her commanding officer is Space Jesus and trying to move past her hatred of the occupying powers and her nascent romance with a Meat T-1000.
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Dec 1, 2013 01:41
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LeafyOrb posted:Who the gently caress approved her using the Orb of Time to see her mom get hosed anyway? It was Sisko if I remember right. That episode always pissed me off, because while I am by no means a stranger to just going "ugh gently caress it okay" to stupid premises to get to cool sci-fi plots, they had just 3 episodes earlier had Kira giggling on screen about how silly it was that they were shrinking a runabout. It's a consistency problem - if you're going to have fun with shrinking a shuttle and call out how goofy it is, and the season before even using the Orb of Time itself in a goofy fun way to go back to the TOS era, all the sudden turning it around and pretending it's a Serious Dramatic Plot Device is irritating. DS9 plays off goofy sci-fi conceits in a sufficiently fun way really well most of the time, so to see them go play take-backsies made me go "well gently caress off then" Though I can't agree that this particular episode was about her hatred of spoonheads in general, that was aaaalllllll about Dukat, who had by that point regressed to Silly Space Bad Man. Hard Clumping fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Dec 1, 2013 |
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Dec 1, 2013 01:52
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Hard Clumping posted:It was Sisko if I remember right. I meant more on the churches end, how do explain to a Vedek that your friend needs to go back in time to check if her mother was a bonking lord spoonhead or not. Though while it is more about Dukat than Cardassians in general the episode does elaborate more on a backstory we've seen a dozen times already at that point. The entire thing was sort of unnecessary really she didn't need yet another reason to hate Dukat and the Cardassians, and she really didn't need one so contrived.
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Dec 1, 2013 02:06
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LeafyOrb posted:I meant more on the churches end, how do explain to a Vedek that your friend needs to go back in time to check if her mother was a bonking lord spoonhead or not. Though while it is more about Dukat than Cardassians in general the episode does elaborate more on a backstory we've seen a dozen times already at that point. The entire thing was sort of unnecessary really she didn't need yet another reason to hate Dukat and the Cardassians, and she really didn't need one so contrived. I'm not disagreeing that the episode was bad, it was hosed up and unnecessarily convoluted Kira and Dukat's "past" (and the writers proved they knew it by never bringing it up again), but the series already implies that no one gives a poo poo about Vedeks or what they think unless Kira is dating them. Sisko probably just Emissary'd it, like he did to the Bajoran freight company to pull Kasidy off the important mission list. Thing is, they knocked "Kira vs Cardassia" out of the park their first real try with Duet, and you can tell that, while she of course still holds resentment that will never go away, is a bit more tempered in how she deals with them from then on. I'd say Duet is the root of her becoming more level-headed later in the series. C'mon man, have some faith. I mean it's not like a Star Trek series would ever give a major character a mind-blowingly important life experience only to forget it the next week--- wait hang on
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Dec 1, 2013 02:12
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Also, thanks to the super timey-wimey nature of the Prophets, the Orbs will only do something for a Bajoran if they were ~destined~ to use them.
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Dec 1, 2013 02:18
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The Dark One posted:Also, thanks to the super timey-wimey nature of the Prophets, the Orbs will only do something for a Bajoran if they were ~destined~ to use them. That little plot point gets shoved under the carpet since the Prophets exist outside time.
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Dec 1, 2013 02:43
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Vagabundo posted:Not all universes had WWIII, duh. The splitting off point at that universe was the loss of the 1701-C, which was way after WW3 
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Dec 1, 2013 03:13
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Someone in this thread recently-ish said something to the effects of "Gods in Star Trek are there to be de-throned goddamnit  " and I think that's the most concise, appropriate words we've had yet regarding what was wrong with the portrayal of the Prophets in DS9. Not necessarily that the show should have literally seen them de-throned or destroyed, but that they became far too much of an unquestioned macguffin far too often.I'm not saying they needed to be constantly brought down to size like the ascended ancients in Stargate (who also spoke in riddles and operated on a very restrictive, seemingly arbitrary ruleset), but for all the criticism DS9 leveled at the Federation, and as I mentioned earlier the very goofy sci-fi tropes on which Star Trek is based, apart from a few half-hearted jabs by Jadzia there was no critical examination of what the Prophets are or what their role is. The closest they ever come is: "I think the Prophets are wormhole aliens." "I think that they are Prophets and gods and holy." "Okay we are different." "Yes we are different."The god-alien concept was just SCREAMING to be dealt with on a serialized scale, something with more weight than the one-off episodes that had come in earlier series. For example, for how often the Prophets said "We are of Bajor," we never got a satisfactory answer as to/exploration into Why. I was CERTAIN on my first watchthrough that that line, repeated over and over, would end up a major reveal, and it just never happened. Why do the prophets care about Bajor? The show proved that they weren't unstoppable, so the answer isn't that they just "are" of Bajor. It's just unexplored and doesn't give the viewer a sense of satisfaction or journey through a concept like pretty much every other major DS9 theme. so anyway 
Hard Clumping fucked around with this message at 03:23 on Dec 1, 2013 |
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Dec 1, 2013 03:21
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Tony Montana posted:Roger. Engage rear end pimple drive tomorrow, it's Sunday and I've been going all over the place outside the last couple of days and there is no drat good reason not to camp indoors and watch a ton of Trek. The bridge of a Trek ship is closer to the CIC of a real battleship, though.
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Dec 1, 2013 03:25
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Hard Clumping posted:The god-alien concept was just SCREAMING to be dealt with on a serialized scale, something with more weight than the one-off episodes that had come in earlier series. For example, for how often the Prophets said "We are of Bajor," we never got a satisfactory answer as to/exploration into Why. I was CERTAIN on my first watchthrough that that line, repeated over and over, would end up a major reveal, and it just never happened. Why do the prophets care about Bajor? The show proved that they weren't unstoppable, so the answer isn't that they just "are" of Bajor. It's just unexplored and doesn't give the viewer a sense of satisfaction or journey through a concept like pretty much every other major DS9 theme. They have a plan.
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Dec 1, 2013 03:56
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Yeah that was always the weakest part of DS9 for me too. I never understood why nobody was just like "Yo the omnipotent gods that you worship? They don't 'get' linear time; maybe ya'll were upsold on the mythology a bit."
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Dec 1, 2013 04:01
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Sup thread. I want to log some more DS9 while at work tonight, and I'm looking to watch an episode that showcases the Breen and their ships. Any suggestions?
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Dec 1, 2013 04:17
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"The Changing Face of Evil", Season 7, Episode 20 is pretty much the most you ever get from the Breen. They're background characters before that and minor villains afterwards. TCFoE is their high water mark.
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Dec 1, 2013 04:28
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jng2058 posted:"The Changing Face of Evil", Season 7, Episode 20 is pretty much the most you ever get from the Breen. They're background characters before that and minor villains afterwards. TCFoE is their high water mark. That's a shame. I'm playing Dominion in Attack Wing and I think the Breen battle cruisers are some of the best Trek designs around.
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Dec 1, 2013 04:30
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You'll see them in the big battles scenes from that episode through the end of the series, and they are pretty impressive in "The Changing Face of Evil", but I'm sorry to say that the Breen are never more than bit players in DS9. Nice looking ships, though.
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Dec 1, 2013 04:35
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Hard Clumping posted:The god-alien concept was just SCREAMING to be dealt with on a serialized scale, something with more weight than the one-off episodes that had come in earlier series. For example, for how often the Prophets said "We are of Bajor," we never got a satisfactory answer as to/exploration into Why. I was CERTAIN on my first watchthrough that that line, repeated over and over, would end up a major reveal, and it just never happened. Why do the prophets care about Bajor? The show proved that they weren't unstoppable, so the answer isn't that they just "are" of Bajor. It's just unexplored and doesn't give the viewer a sense of satisfaction or journey through a concept like pretty much every other major DS9 theme. Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.
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Dec 1, 2013 04:40
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Otisburg posted:Man the last time anyone was this wrong about something they ended up spending their honeymoon dead in a ditch on fire outside the furherbunker while the Soviets marched through Berlin. No, the last time anyone was this wrong about something they got a red title for endorsing a pedo. Hard Clumping posted:so anyway The best gif.
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Dec 1, 2013 04:50
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The thing that gets me about the Prophets - they say they're 'of Bajor', but they never actually seem to give a poo poo about it or the Bajorans. I mean, hell, Quark gets to meet them before they bother appearing to any actual Bajoran. Their major interventions into the galaxy at large are to eliminate a Dominion fleet because Sisko asks nicely and to do some mind rape thing on some woman so Sisko can be born. Bajorans seem kind of stupid to keep worshiping gods that have never actually done anything for them, is what I'm saying.
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Dec 1, 2013 05:48
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I kind of always thought that the 'Of Bajor' thing was a reference that the prophets had evolved on Bajor sometime in the distant past before they moved beyond their corporeal forms and became wormhole aliens. If you assume that Bajor is like Earth and at least a few billion years old it's lots of time for all sorts of poo poo to have taken place. Bajor would then in a way be their home planet, and the current Bajorans sort of like distant descendants or inheritors of the prophets ancient home which gives a half-assed reason for the prophets to give a poo poo about the Bajorans while not feeling compelled to do anything for them for the most part.
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Dec 1, 2013 06:55
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After old vs. new make-up chat on Cardassians, I was wondering why Romulans had been given their own head ridge (and why vulcans are sometimes weirdly yellow?), and if you thought 2009Trek's grasp of design was loose...quote:Neville was in charge of creating the designs for the markings, and did extensive research into Star Trek history and character development between TOS and TNG. He wanted to find a way to explain the V-shaped frontal ridges on the TNG Romulan foreheads, which didn’t exist in TOS. So, he first created a back-story to justify the change their faces underwent during that time, explaining that as a result of their grief, anger, and general bad-rear end persona, they chose to cut and scar themselves, leaving behind such significant keloids on their foreheads that it eventually wended its way into the gene pool over many years, eventually becoming a natural characteristic of all Romulans and thus creating the distinct difference between them and their Vulcan cousins. 1st AD posted:I've met Neville Page and he's a really cool guy with good designs, who cares if that backstory is lame? SombreroAgnew fucked around with this message at 08:18 on Dec 1, 2013 |
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Dec 1, 2013 08:05
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Of course they'd go Lamarkian with it. You've seen "The Chase."
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Dec 1, 2013 08:07
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I've met Neville Page and he's a really cool guy with good designs, who cares if that backstory is lame? Can't be any worse than how they retconned the Klingons forehead ridges.
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Dec 1, 2013 08:09
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I think "I failed freshman earth science" is actually worse than hahaha like anything that happened in Enterprise is worth spoilertag effort "just because".
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Dec 1, 2013 08:16
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Are any of you here old enough to have seen TWOK when it was released in theaters? I'm curious because I want to know if you guys thought Spock was really dead or if you knew he'd find some way to plot armor his back into the series E: also I really like how happy Geordi is for Worf when Worf manages to get the hat in Generations 
Tom Brady fucked around with this message at 08:24 on Dec 1, 2013 |
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Dec 1, 2013 08:17
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Conquistador posted:Are any of you here old enough to have seen TWOK when it was released in theaters? I'm curious because I want to know if you guys thought Spock was really dead or if you knew he'd find some way to plot armor his back into the series I saw it on a cable when I was 8 years-old, then went to see Star Trek III when it came out in theaters a year laster. I never thought he was really dead because of the "Remember" mind-meld thing.
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Dec 1, 2013 08:23
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Angry Salami posted:The thing that gets me about the Prophets - they say they're 'of Bajor', but they never actually seem to give a poo poo about it or the Bajorans. I mean, hell, Quark gets to meet them before they bother appearing to any actual Bajoran. Their major interventions into the galaxy at large are to eliminate a Dominion fleet because Sisko asks nicely and to do some mind rape thing on some woman so Sisko can be born.
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Dec 1, 2013 08:28
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Knormal posted:They delayed their entry into the Federation that one time, under threat of locusts. Which probably saved Bajor from getting a full-on brutal reoccupation during the war. Thanks, Prophets!
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Dec 1, 2013 08:55
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