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Aniki
Mar 21, 2001

Wouldn't fit...
I'm not playing very well on Wednesdays lately. It didn't help that I saw 48 shots with at least 10 of those being breakaways, but I still feel like my focus hasn't been there and I've noticed some of my technique degrading, especially backside recoveries. I think I need to get a lesson soon and brush up on my technique. I also need to address some issues on D, it's not a skill thing, but we weren't doing a good job of keeping a guy on the cherry picker, which is how they got so many breakaways. I actually got frustrated when the other team got another breakaway with under a minute left and a comfortable lead and I came out, butterflied in front of the shooter and put my hands out in front of me. Admittedly, it was an aggressive move that wasn't executed well and then the player circled back, pushed me over when I was in a non-aggressive position and was immediately thrown out of the game. To the other team's credit, their captain wasn't happy with how his player acted, but it was stupid of me to let my frustration get the better of me.

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nahanahs
Mar 26, 2003

<3 Shantastic <3

Bradf0rd posted:


Dang, how sharp are you going now? They look at me all goofy when I want a 1/2" radius down here.


I don't really know, since it's that weird combo. I get 1/2" and it feels fine for skating, but when I go to push once down, they give out on me a lot.
The problem with what I do is that the edges don't last very long. I have to do the SkateMate/Sweet Stick thing every other game. It's a cheap solution that probably fucks up my steel, but it works for me.

Bootcha
Nov 13, 2012

Truly, the pinnacle of goaltending
Grimey Drawer
So I got to sub in a B1 game with the team of friends up there. Got my second shutout in a 4-0 win. To clarify, I didn't so much shutout the other team so much as I didn't screw up what was shot at me and the opponents didn't capitalize on their chances. The defense was somewhat secret-servicey, and many shots were deflected off to the sides or right to the sticks of our team. I think I faced a dozen shots in total. I was aware of this and had a few good laughs with the guys about it, but they seem to notice my basics are much better than they were 2 years ago when I played for them.

I think you could this a Caldwell Shutout.

Still... :feelsgood:

Hazed_blue
May 14, 2002
Why hello old thread, how are you doing! I haven't posted in awhile, but uh... I needed to commiserate.

Came back from a long vacation and have been out of shape in every respect of the phrase. Physically, mentally, you name it. I've been subbing for a friend's team and everything has just been... off. I'm out there and I feel like my eye for the puck is absent. Don't know what trajectory it's coming in on, can't discern the speed of the shot quick enough, awkwardly stumbling around, etc. It's a terrible experience right now. One tie and two losses where I feel like I could have / should have stolen each and every game. Last night I tried to mentally prepare myself like I used to do before tournaments, and it was even worse: we lost 7-1. The recap of poo poo is the best part:

Let in the first shot? Check.
Let it in because I was honestly surprised that a guy that size would shoot it that fast? Check.
Own goal from a teammate all alone in the zone banking the puck off my blocker? Check.
Own goal from a teammate clearing the puck from behind the net and banking it off my skate? Check.
Letting in shots that I seemingly had the angle on every time, only for it to dribble in under a limb? Check.
Broke my THIRD GoPro mount in FIVE games via a teammate in warmups? Check.

I know it can't go on like this, but dammit it all if that doesn't deflate me. The only way out of this is through though. I'm just going to have to go through some embarrassing plays and games until I can get centered again.

Concerning the GoPro mount though, I'm curious what you guys are doing with them nowadays, and if anyone's tried different kinds. I used the provided strap until that broke on both sides, and then I used the rollbar mount, which worked well until it took a shot to the clamp. I saw that K-Edge is now making aftermarket mounts made from metal, which might be worth a shot. Anyone else have a mounting scheme/setup that at least partially guards against total failure, also known as a direct puck hit?

Glambags
Dec 28, 2003

Skated with the Option B velcro straps tonight. I liked them. I didn't really notice a difference between them as opposed to laces, which I consider a good thing. I was able to get the tightness I wanted, there were no issues with the straps coming loose or the velcro moving around at all. I also had just sharpened my skates and thrown in some new insoles so I'm sure that helped with how I felt on the ice tonight, but I can definitely recommend them to anyone who is on the fence. I do want to skate with them a few more times and see if my feelings change at all, but I can't see why I'd want to go back to laces.

The dude at the hockey shop who sharpened my skates thought they were "interesting, neat idea."

Oh and my game was a 3-2 loss but I feel like I played well, still have no defense in front of me, etc.

Glambags
Dec 28, 2003

So I posted about these pads the other day: http://www.ebay.com/itm/121218932659 and I'm wondering about pulling the trigger on them. What I'm wondering is if they are straight the Sub Zero pads which run for about 1100 new (on totalgoalie anyway), or if they are the Sub Zero Custom, which run for about 500 more than that. I think this would be a good pad for me given my style of play, better than the Brian's S-Series which I was also looking at. I think the seller is willing to come down on price a bit, but I can't quite get myself to commit. The listing claims they're custom and would be roughly $1800 new, but I find this to be somewhat dubious. Even if they aren't, paying around 600 used for 1100 dollar pads isn't too bad I guess. Given what the seller has in the listing about the pads being used by a Junior A goalie in Ontario, my guess is that they came from the St. Michaels Buzzers judging from the pad colors.

I know Aniki has a little experience with Brian's pads, but can anyone else give me a good reason not to seriously consider making the purchase? Spending a big chunk of money on one component of gear (and on something from ebay especially) makes me a little nervous.

Aniki
Mar 21, 2001

Wouldn't fit...
What size and brand are your current pads? Brians pads tend to run big compared to Vaughn and are closer to RBK in sizing, so if you are a 36" in Vaughn, you may be a 34" in Brians. The color is likely custom, but you could ask him what mods he had done to the pad, which will give you a better idea if they are full custom or just custom colors.

Edit: I also find that their boot runs big compared to other brands, so if you have smaller feet, then that is something you may want to consider.

Aniki fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Nov 22, 2013

Glambags
Dec 28, 2003

My current pads are RBK 34+2, and I feel like they're a bit small, here's a pic of how they look when I'm on the ice:



I got my current pads on ebay for really cheap so I was willing to go 34 instead of 35 or 36, but I think now that I've been playing over a year, I need to get the right pads. The pads are really the only thing that I think are ill-sized. And re: boot size I wear a size 10D skate.

I'll go ahead and ask about whether it's full custom.

Aniki
Mar 21, 2001

Wouldn't fit...

EvilJimmyCarter posted:

My current pads are RBK 34+2, and I feel like they're a bit small, here's a pic of how they look when I'm on the ice:



I got my current pads on ebay for really cheap so I was willing to go 34 instead of 35 or 36, but I think now that I've been playing over a year, I need to get the right pads. The pads are really the only thing that I think are ill-sized. And re: boot size I wear a size 10D skate.

I'll go ahead and ask about whether it's full custom.

The pad and boot size should be fine for you.

Bradf0rd
Jun 16, 2008

Agent of Chaos
Anyone else get a chance to read this today?
http://ingoalmag.com/news/new-warrior-ritual-g2-innovative-gear-ever/

I like how this stuff sounds. Easy to clean, built in flex-toes, no more leather straps, big landing area, different sizes of gloves for people like me with smaller hands.

real_scud
Sep 5, 2002

One of these days these elbows are gonna walk all over you

Bradf0rd posted:

Anyone else get a chance to read this today?
http://ingoalmag.com/news/new-warrior-ritual-g2-innovative-gear-ever/

I like how this stuff sounds. Easy to clean, built in flex-toes, no more leather straps, big landing area, different sizes of gloves for people like me with smaller hands.
Yes and it really makes me want to come into a boatload of money and buy pads.

VendaGoat
Nov 1, 2005
Hmmmmm, we are having Ice guys show up in our Dek leagues. I have no idea why, but it has given me some time to talk with them.

Do rink have goalie skates for rental? I haven't been on skates in over ten years and I'd need time to just get a feel for them.

Anyone want to give me the primer?

Aniki
Mar 21, 2001

Wouldn't fit...

VendaGoat posted:

Hmmmmm, we are having Ice guys show up in our Dek leagues. I have no idea why, but it has given me some time to talk with them.

Do rink have goalie skates for rental? I haven't been on skates in over ten years and I'd need time to just get a feel for them.

Anyone want to give me the primer?

They won't have them for rental, but rinks will normally have an emergency set of goalie gear and they may have some goalie skates.

Bradf0rd
Jun 16, 2008

Agent of Chaos

real_scud posted:

Yes and it really makes me want to come into a boatload of money and buy pads.

I have a deal with the wife right now. After I get an expected raise, I get new pads. I've pretty much killed my V3s.

VendaGoat
Nov 1, 2005

Aniki posted:

They won't have them for rental, but rinks will normally have an emergency set of goalie gear and they may have some goalie skates.

So if I just show up to any of the rink in the area, with my goalie gear and ask, someone, hopefully, will be able to help me?

titanium
Mar 11, 2004

NONE SHALL PASS!

Bradf0rd posted:

Anyone else get a chance to read this today?
http://ingoalmag.com/news/new-warrior-ritual-g2-innovative-gear-ever/

I like how this stuff sounds. Easy to clean, built in flex-toes, no more leather straps, big landing area, different sizes of gloves for people like me with smaller hands.

If they're available anytime soon I'm nabbing the first pads I see. It lookes like the kneestack minor qualm I had with the G1 Pros is fixed with this release along with other stuff I wouldn't mind trying out.

My 36+2" Ritual Pros will be for sale after I get these (unless there's something wrong with the new ones) and those have very little wear. If anyone is interested in some Bauer Pro skates sized 8EE (9.5 shoe) let me know, I think they're too stiff of a skate and went to a Rector6000 because of it.

Aniki
Mar 21, 2001

Wouldn't fit...

VendaGoat posted:

So if I just show up to any of the rink in the area, with my goalie gear and ask, someone, hopefully, will be able to help me?

I'd call ahead or email the hockey director first. They should have something to help you out.

LumpyGumby
Feb 22, 2012

"Here's the world famous hockey player sitting in the penalty box for slashing..."
-Snoopy Brown
42g - 65a - 107pts
106gp - 317PIMS

titanium posted:

If they're available anytime soon I'm nabbing the first pads I see. It lookes like the kneestack minor qualm I had with the G1 Pros is fixed with this release along with other stuff I wouldn't mind trying out.

My 36+2" Ritual Pros will be for sale after I get these (unless there's something wrong with the new ones) and those have very little wear. If anyone is interested in some Bauer Pro skates sized 8EE (9.5 shoe) let me know, I think they're too stiff of a skate and went to a Rector6000 because of it.

PM me a price if you'd be so kind on the skates. I believe I'm that size and still need some.

Spookydonut
Sep 13, 2010

"Hello alien thoughtbeasts! We murder children!"
~our children?~
"Not recently, no!"
~we cool bro~
This may be a bit of a long winded story/post.

Back story: I played field hockey as a kid/teenager for about 15 years, the last 8 or so as a goalkeeper. I've also been refereeing roller derby for the past 4 years on roller skates, which makes me an okay ice skater (nothing brilliant though).

I went ice skating with my lady friend at a basically empty session, there were some hockey guys there mucking around when there was no one on the ice, I asked to join in, borrowed a stick.
They were quite impressed with my stick skills and skating and invited me to come to an off-season casual training session they have on Tuesday mornings. I expressed interest in goalkeeping and they seemed pretty keen for me to have a go at it (they don't usually have a goal keeper at their sessions. Seems no matter the sport goal keepers are in demand?)
Apparently they have goalie gear but I don't know anything about it, only about field hockey gear unsurprisingly. Having looked at gear online and checking my field hockey gear I'm fairly certain none of it is going to be any use, quick summary;
Helmet: Probably the only piece that's usable, it's a KOHO possibly almost as old as I am. I think it actually belonged to my old hockey club. I have a wrap around neck guard that I'm pretty sure wouldn't do poo poo for a puck.
Chest: Made by Gryphon (Field hockey company), quite a low neck hole, basically no protection on the sides. The torso and shoulders seem like they might be okay. The arms for it are the biggest deal breaker though, the inside of the elbow isn't protected from puck shaped objects, the outside of the elbow has no padding at all, nor does the inside of the upper arm.
Pants: Have no protection on the inside of the thigh, gaps on the upper thigh where a puck could hit.
Pads: Hahahahaha.

So basically I'm going to be using their gear, and wanted to know if there's anything I should look out for, like outdated/unsafe gear.

Aniki
Mar 21, 2001

Wouldn't fit...
What country are you in? The mask you have looks similar to the old combos that guys used to wear. It would probably be OK to use for a short time to figure out if you want to play ice hockey, but other guys here may be more familiar with that style of mask. One thing to keep in mind is that higher end field hockey masks like this are pretty much interchangeable with goalie masks, so if hockey equipment isn't readily available where you live, then something like that is worth considering.

The chest protector might be OK to get started. Good rib/side protection is relatively recent with hockey chest protectors and you can wear a neck guard and a padded shirt to augment the protection. That being said, I'm not too familiar with how hard field hockey impacts are. Do you generally get bruises through your chest protection or do you not really feel the impacts? Not sure about the elbow protection.

Some goalie pants don't have protection on the inside of the thighs, because some guys feel that padding gets in the way of closing their butterfly. Lack of padding on the upper thigh would be a bigger concern for me.

VendaGoat
Nov 1, 2005

Spookydonut posted:

Seems no matter the sport goal keepers are in demand?

If it wasn't for goaltenders, hockey would be Basketball.

We frustrate the hell out of people, which makes the game fun.

:v:The world needs hard headed assholes:v:


Welcome to the club buddy. Go slow and always go for more protection.

Jordan7hm
Feb 17, 2011




Lipstick Apathy
Haha, your chest protector looks better than the one I wear to ice hockey.

I keep meaning to get a new chest piece but I like feeling the puck and the newer stuff I've worn has always been overly protective. I just wish it had better protection around my shoulders. I've had a few bleeders and some real minor scarring from rising shots that rip the skin.

Spookydonut
Sep 13, 2010

"Hello alien thoughtbeasts! We murder children!"
~our children?~
"Not recently, no!"
~we cool bro~

Aniki posted:

What country are you in?
Australia. Western Australia. Not going to be fun getting gear if I decide to get into it :smith:

Aniki posted:

The mask you have looks similar to the old combos that guys used to wear. It would probably be OK to use for a short time to figure out if you want to play ice hockey, but other guys here may be more familiar with that style of mask. One thing to keep in mind is that higher end field hockey masks like this are pretty much interchangeable with goalie masks, so if hockey equipment isn't readily available where you live, then something like that is worth considering.
Yeah back when I played pretty much everyone wore that style, would definitely be easy to get one.

Aniki posted:

The chest protector might be OK to get started. Good rib/side protection is relatively recent with hockey chest protectors and you can wear a neck guard and a padded shirt to augment the protection.
This gives a better idea of the level of protection, the white part is high density foam, the black is just padding.
Is the lack of any protection on the elbow an issue? Ice is more solid than grass to land on :/

Aniki posted:

That being said, I'm not too familiar with how hard field hockey impacts are. Do you generally get bruises through your chest protection or do you not really feel the impacts? Not sure about the elbow protection.
Really depends on the level of play, as with anything. At the height of my 'career' playing U/17 A-grade on astroturf you definitely feel the impacts though I don't remember chest bruises, plenty of arm and leg bruises though. That's mostly what's making me apprehensive about ice hockey gear, given that pucks are smaller (less impact area to distribute the force) and travel much faster.

Aniki posted:

Some goalie pants don't have protection on the inside of the thighs, because some guys feel that padding gets in the way of closing their butterfly. Lack of padding on the upper thigh would be a bigger concern for me.
This is what concerns me most, the red being the parts with no padding, as well as the solid foam pieces on the lower thighs having a bad habit of twisting towards the outside, I've had countless bruises in that spot.

VendaGoat posted:

Welcome to the club buddy. Go slow and always go for more protection.
Thanks!

Aniki
Mar 21, 2001

Wouldn't fit...

Spookydonut posted:

Australia. Western Australia. Not going to be fun getting gear if I decide to get into it :smith:

aejix is also from Australia, so he should be able to give you a better idea of what's available locally and how to import gear if necessary. I also have a friend who used to live in Australia and she's still pretty connected with the hockey scene there, so I can check with her if there's anything aejix can't answer.

quote:

Yeah back when I played pretty much everyone wore that style, would definitely be easy to get one.

There are a couple of field hockey mask makers that are fine for ice hockey. Obo is one of them and I'd need to search around for the others. If you come across any masks that you are interested in, then post them here and we can help you figure out if they'll work or not.

quote:

This gives a better idea of the level of protection, the white part is high density foam, the black is just padding.
Is the lack of any protection on the elbow an issue? Ice is more solid than grass to land on :/

The body protection is probably OK. Hockey chest protectors are more articulated, so they move with you as you crouch. I'd be concerned about the bottom belly protection not being HD foam. As for elbow protection, chest protectors do have either HD foam or hard plastic caps to protect the back of your elbows.

quote:

Really depends on the level of play, as with anything. At the height of my 'career' playing U/17 A-grade on astroturf you definitely feel the impacts though I don't remember chest bruises, plenty of arm and leg bruises though. That's mostly what's making me apprehensive about ice hockey gear, given that pucks are smaller (less impact area to distribute the force) and travel much faster.

There's a certain amount of arm bruising that you can get away with, but if it was a problem in field hockey, then it could be worse with ice hockey. It may make sense to invest in even a mid level chest protector to make sure that you have proper chest protection, since if you are out there worrying about not getting hurt, then it is hard to really enjoy the sport.

quote:

This is what concerns me most, the red being the parts with no padding, as well as the solid foam pieces on the lower thighs having a bad habit of twisting towards the outside, I've had countless bruises in that spot.

Thanks!

I don't think that those pants will work. A goalie cup would cover some of those areas, but you still have some vulnerable seams and they look to be pretty big. The good thing is that goalie pants aren't too expensive and even the low end goalie pants will be more than fine.

I hope that helps. You're probably better off erring on the side of caution and getting the right equipment, but it was definitely worth looking at what you had and seeing if it would work. I'd do the same thing if I were looking into playing field hockey or indoor lacrosse.

Spookydonut
Sep 13, 2010

"Hello alien thoughtbeasts! We murder children!"
~our children?~
"Not recently, no!"
~we cool bro~

Aniki posted:

aejix is also from Australia, so he should be able to give you a better idea of what's available locally and how to import gear if necessary. I also have a friend who used to live in Australia and she's still pretty connected with the hockey scene there, so I can check with her if there's anything aejix can't answer.
Thanks, does he have platinum for PMs?

Aniki posted:

There's a certain amount of arm bruising that you can get away with, but if it was a problem in field hockey, then it could be worse with ice hockey. It may make sense to invest in even a mid level chest protector to make sure that you have proper chest protection, since if you are out there worrying about not getting hurt, then it is hard to really enjoy the sport.
I forgot to mention I never actually wore arm protection, or only on my stick side for high level gameplay reasons (for short corners you need to lie down and you've got basically a 1 in 3 chance of being hit in the arm). Never really had fear of being hurt (I've always found that makes for terrible goalkeeping), just rather not get hurt and be unable to play/pay for hospital bills.

Aniki
Mar 21, 2001

Wouldn't fit...

Spookydonut posted:

Thanks, does he have platinum for PMs?

I think he does.

quote:

I forgot to mention I never actually wore arm protection, or only on my stick side for high level gameplay reasons (for short corners you need to lie down and you've got basically a 1 in 3 chance of being hit in the arm). Never really had fear of being hurt (I've always found that makes for terrible goalkeeping), just rather not get hurt and be unable to play/pay for hospital bills.

That makes sense. At a certain point you realize it's not a toughness thing, but that it makes sense to reasonable steps to protect yourself from easily preventable injuries.

What is playing goalie in field hockey like? It looks like some hybrid between soccer and the old stand up style of goaltending. I know that field hockey goalies tend to be pretty tall and if you are, then that will certainly help you cover more net. I've watched a little bit of field hockey during the olympics and seen a youtube video or two, but I don't know much about the sport.

Spookydonut
Sep 13, 2010

"Hello alien thoughtbeasts! We murder children!"
~our children?~
"Not recently, no!"
~we cool bro~

Aniki posted:

What is playing goalie in field hockey like? It looks like some hybrid between soccer and the old stand up style of goaltending. I know that field hockey goalies tend to be pretty tall and if you are, then that will certainly help you cover more net. I've watched a little bit of field hockey during the olympics and seen a youtube video or two, but I don't know much about the sport.

It's a mix of mobility, awareness and shouting at people to man up (typically you're the only player on the team with a complete picture of what's going on and what's about to happen). During break aways you basically charge the player and slide tackle them play the ball. Within the 20' D you can basically do whatever, outside it you can only play with your stick.
If you freeze the ball like in ice hockey the other team gets a short corner, probably equivalent to the faceoff.
During short corners shots where the ball is struck (think slap shot) rather than scooped/pushed/flicked (think wristshot) can't go above the backboard (about a foot high), so when it's hit you lie down to cover as much of that area as you can. Though if you lie down it leaves the rest of the goal open for flicks.
Doing unexpected things was fun, such as sprinting at the person taking the shot. I'm a fan of Fleury because he comes out of goal, though it doesn't sometimes end well.

Edit: Back to ice hockey, how much of a difference do goalie skates make over regular hockey skates? Is it better go straight to goalie skates or get regular skates first?

Spookydonut fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Nov 30, 2013

Aniki
Mar 21, 2001

Wouldn't fit...

Spookydonut posted:

It's a mix of mobility, awareness and shouting at people to man up (typically you're the only player on the team with a complete picture of what's going on and what's about to happen). During break aways you basically charge the player and slide tackle them play the ball. Within the 20' D you can basically do whatever, outside it you can only play with your stick.
If you freeze the ball like in ice hockey the other team gets a short corner, probably equivalent to the faceoff.
During short corners shots where the ball is struck (think slap shot) rather than scooped/pushed/flicked (think wristshot) can't go above the backboard (about a foot high), so when it's hit you lie down to cover as much of that area as you can. Though if you lie down it leaves the rest of the goal open for flicks.
Doing unexpected things was fun, such as sprinting at the person taking the shot. I'm a fan of Fleury because he comes out of goal, though it doesn't sometimes end well.

Edit: Back to ice hockey, how much of a difference do goalie skates make over regular hockey skates? Is it better go straight to goalie skates or get regular skates first?

Thanks for the info in field hockey. I'm also curious about other types of goaltending. Do you have any recommendations for good highlight videos of field hockey saves? I've found some on YouTube, but they didn't seem like the best showcase of the position. It seems like the sport will be good training for desperation saves and you'll probably be a lot more comfortable doing two pad stacks than most current goalies. Also, rotating and leading with your shoulders is important in ice hockey, so if that was drilled into you for field hockey, then that will help you out a lot.

Goalie skates have a hard plastic cowling, which better protects your feet from puck impacts. They also have a flat blade versus a curved blade that players use, which is better suited for the type of movements that goalies make. Newer skates are also designed to help you stand in a wide stance and get blade contact from angles where you couldn't push off of before, which is important for making recovery saves where you are down in a butterfly and push across the crease while remaining on the ice.

Spookydonut
Sep 13, 2010

"Hello alien thoughtbeasts! We murder children!"
~our children?~
"Not recently, no!"
~we cool bro~

Aniki posted:

Thanks for the info in field hockey. I'm also curious about other types of goaltending. Do you have any recommendations for good highlight videos of field hockey saves? I've found some on YouTube, but they didn't seem like the best showcase of the position. It seems like the sport will be good training for desperation saves and you'll probably be a lot more comfortable doing two pad stacks than most current goalies. Also, rotating and leading with your shoulders is important in ice hockey, so if that was drilled into you for field hockey, then that will help you out a lot.
This is a pretty good example of 'playing the ball' at the start
This covers the basics of positioning and technique
This has some more of the diving/sliding techniques with an emphasis on mobility to make the second saves

Aniki posted:

Goalie skates have a hard plastic cowling, which better protects your feet from puck impacts. They also have a flat blade versus a curved blade that players use, which is better suited for the type of movements that goalies make. Newer skates are also designed to help you stand in a wide stance and get blade contact from angles where you couldn't push off of before, which is important for making recovery saves where you are down in a butterfly and push across the crease while remaining on the ice.
Are they any use for playing out of goal or just general ice skating? I guess what I'm asking is how specialised are they?

Jordan7hm
Feb 17, 2011




Lipstick Apathy

They are not very good for skating. Like, you can get by, but actual skates make life so much easier outside the crease.

Bootcha
Nov 13, 2012

Truly, the pinnacle of goaltending
Grimey Drawer
It's very interesting watching the field hockey vids. Coming from a stand-up style I can see the similarities. I can also see the flopping desperation saves when the style breaks down on the bad rebounds. But considering the size of the net, jumping from side to side seems routine. Do they train angle discipline?

As for skating out in goalie skates, player skates are better for speed and mobility, but some goalies swear by their own as they are most comfortable with them. You could get away with skating defense in goalie skates in lower leagues.

Bootcha fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Dec 1, 2013

Spookydonut
Sep 13, 2010

"Hello alien thoughtbeasts! We murder children!"
~our children?~
"Not recently, no!"
~we cool bro~

Bootcha posted:

It's very interesting watching the field hockey vids. Coming from a stand-up style I can see the similarities. I can also see the flopping desperation saves when the style breaks down on the bad rebounds. But considering the size of the net, jumping from side to side seems routine. Do they train angle discipline?
Yup

Bootcha posted:

As for skating out in goalie skates, player skates are better for speed and mobility, but some goalies swear by their own as they are most comfortable with them. You could get away with skating defense in goalie skates in lower leagues.
Can you get away with being in net with player skates though?


What do some of these terms mean, butterfly, stand-up style?

Bootcha
Nov 13, 2012

Truly, the pinnacle of goaltending
Grimey Drawer

Spookydonut posted:

Yup
Can you get away with being in net with player skates though?

You can, but butterfly goalies will cringe at the thought of losing the pronounced toe edge for side-to-side movement when down, as well as the stiffness of a player skate boot at the high ankle and bend of the foot. I played with player skates in my youth, but it was also when I was being trained in the old stand-up style. Modern leg pads aren't made with player skates in mind, so tying up the toe and heel straps will be a pain in the rear end. The other downside is that layer skates don't have as much protection as goalie skates, so shots that ring off your ankles are going to REAALLY loving hurt instead of plain old loving hurt.

Speaking of styles...

Spookydonut posted:

What do some of these terms mean, butterfly, stand-up style?


The stand-up style of goaltending is the ye-olde traditional style, where the goalie would use the save-making tools at his disposal to remain on his/her feet for mobility and only going down and "flopping" as a last resort. The primary tool of the stand-up goalie was the skate save, much like I suppose field hockey players are used to doing with their feet, to deflect shots along the ice to the boards assisted by the trailing stick. For closer in shots and cross-ice one-timers, the kick save (for the kicking motion involved) was the tool of choice. The goalie would drag the rear pad, slide on the forward skate, and explode out with the glove or blocker (depending on the side) as well as crescenting the forward skate and pad. Both these techniques demanded a lot of foot discipline as well as really good eye-foot coordination. Finally, the two-pad stack is a desperation move used by stand-up goalies when they have to go down laterally, and is considered a relic of the stand-up style that is used today, mostly by accident. Obviously being the ye-olde style, goalies like Tony Esposito, Ken Dryden, Gerry Cheevers, and Jacques Plante from yesteryear are famous for this style. I believe Martin Brodeur is the only currently-playing goalie that has had stand-up training and occasionally flashes out the skate save and two-pad stack.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT3B6ay_8EA
You can see Tony performing the stand-up style. You might think that he's flopping a lot for a guy labeled as a "stand-up" goalie. Well, that's pretty much what happens 80% of the time: barely controlled flopping. It's a very big drawback to the style, and demands that you're on your angles and that you can control all your rebounds to allow you to get back on your feet to reset for the next shot. I think I'm the only goalie in Austin that uses these moves on any regular basis as part of my tool set, particularly the kick save.


The butterfly style came into popularity about the early 90's, and has since become THE dominant goalie style taught by coaches everywhere. The intent behind the style is to take away any angle from the ice up to 4 inches off by flaring out the leg pads, embrace being down on the ice with stout angles, and using highly-athletic techniques to move around in the crease. I think it was Jim Park (an A list goalie clinic Czar) that tossed out the statistic that 90% of all goals scored in the NHL (back in... '95 I think) were within 4" of the surface of the ice, so committing to covering the ice surface would in theory put a goalie in a position to make a save on 90% of all scoring chances.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGvmEF5n_Ao
Think this gives a decent idea of the butterfly style. Aggressive angles, quick movements, getting the pads down automatically with every shot. The disadvantage with this style is that it needs a lot of training and abdominal strength, otherwise you'll find yourself flopping just as much if not more than a stand-up goalie. Pad-flare discipline and quick recoveries make the style really effective, but if you can't explode out of the butterfly or control your pads, you look really sloppy and incompetent.

Aniki
Mar 21, 2001

Wouldn't fit...

Spookydonut posted:

Can you get away with being in net with player skates though?


What do some of these terms mean, butterfly, stand-up style?

Stand-up as its name implies is a style of goal tending where the goalie primarily stays up on their feet. They'll make the majority of their saves with their skates and feet and a lot of the saves they made would be similar to what you see. The butterfly is a save where you drive your knees to the ice, keep your thighs together, and flare out your hips to cover as much of the bottom of the net as possible and you'd use your leg pads and body to stop the puck.

The butterfly has been around since the 1950s, but it wasn't used very often, partly because it used to be illegal to purposely drop to the ice to stop the puck and old goalie equipment was really bad, so it would hurt if you took a shot to the chest and masks didn't become popular until the 1970s. Once equipment became more protective and lighter (old leg pads weighed 10 pounds each and had little knee protection and current pads weigh 4-5 pounds each and have very good protection), then goalies were more willing to put their bodies in front of shots.

Stand-up example. Mike Palmateer wasn't necessarily typical, but I chose this since his style may seem a little more familiar to you and it is a really cool video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m80ME7L07oI

Basic butterfly example, but there are better videos demonstrating the technique.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m80ME7L07oI

Hazed_blue
May 14, 2002
Kirk McLean was without a doubt my favorite standup goaltender, and one of the last of his kind to play in the NHL. He was, in a word, a master at the style.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diaC_n71Rlo (saves begin at 0:52)

Spookydonut
Sep 13, 2010

"Hello alien thoughtbeasts! We murder children!"
~our children?~
"Not recently, no!"
~we cool bro~

Bootcha posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT3B6ay_8EA
You can see Tony performing the stand-up style. You might think that he's flopping a lot for a guy labeled as a "stand-up" goalie. Well, that's pretty much what happens 80% of the time: barely controlled flopping. It's a very big drawback to the style, and demands that you're on your angles and that you can control all your rebounds to allow you to get back on your feet to reset for the next shot. I think I'm the only goalie in Austin that uses these moves on any regular basis as part of my tool set, particularly the kick save.

Hazed_blue posted:

Kirk McLean was without a doubt my favorite standup goaltender, and one of the last of his kind to play in the NHL. He was, in a word, a master at the style.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diaC_n71Rlo (saves begin at 0:52)
This is basically how I played field hockey, though it's quite brutal and definitely hard to control rebounds.

Bootcha posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGvmEF5n_Ao
Think this gives a decent idea of the butterfly style. Aggressive angles, quick movements, getting the pads down automatically with every shot. The disadvantage with this style is that it needs a lot of training and abdominal strength, otherwise you'll find yourself flopping just as much if not more than a stand-up goalie. Pad-flare discipline and quick recoveries make the style really effective, but if you can't explode out of the butterfly or control your pads, you look really sloppy and incompetent.
Knowing what I'm looking at now gives me a new appreciation for the physical strength and endurance to get back up quickly from that position.

These are both the same link.

Aniki
Mar 21, 2001

Wouldn't fit...

Spookydonut posted:

These are both the same link.

Here is the stand-up (Mike Palmateer) clip. Not typical, even for stand-up goalies, but I thought his style might be more familiar to you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_RsuT8ZmsQ

Spookydonut
Sep 13, 2010

"Hello alien thoughtbeasts! We murder children!"
~our children?~
"Not recently, no!"
~we cool bro~

Aniki posted:

Here is the stand-up (Mike Palmateer) clip. Not typical, even for stand-up goalies, but I thought his style might be more familiar to you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_RsuT8ZmsQ

Yeah it's very familiar. I'll really need to work on my skating, currently I can really only plow stop. I can skate backwards and do backwards crossovers, but trying to do forwards crossovers I wind up with all sorts of problems/confusion with the edges on my outside skate.

Aniki
Mar 21, 2001

Wouldn't fit...

Spookydonut posted:

Yeah it's very familiar. I'll really need to work on my skating, currently I can really only plow stop. I can skate backwards and do backwards crossovers, but trying to do forwards crossovers I wind up with all sorts of problems/confusion with the edges on my outside skate.

It's good to have a foundation in regular skating and it is worth it for you to keep working on it, but goalie skating is pretty different. A lot of quick bursts of power and a lot of backwards skating. This series of articles, which isn't complete yet, will give you a good idea of the type of skating movements that goalies make in the net.

http://ingoalmag.com/?s=Goaltender+Specific+Skating+Serie

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Bootcha
Nov 13, 2012

Truly, the pinnacle of goaltending
Grimey Drawer
So for my black friday hockey shopping, I picked up a new Bauer Profile 950 helmet with a lot of spare parts, since I'm very sure no one down here will have them. Came in at about $300 with the markdown. Also picked up a pair of skating skates for going to the rinks when I visit Chicago.

The nice find for me was this:


Been looking for a good neck protector that I can wear like a shirt.

The near miss was a ye olde Louisville TPS blocker. The thing was like a kite shield. Too bad it was for the wrong hand.

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