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I'm a Harry Potter neophyte who just finished book 5, and I have a question: Why is Harry referred to as a half-blood when both of his parents were magic users?
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Dec 1, 2013 21:47
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Duncan Doenitz posted:I'm a Harry Potter neophyte who just finished book 5, and I have a question: Why is Harry referred to as a half-blood when both of his parents were magic users? Lily was muggle born.
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Dec 1, 2013 21:50
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Some pure blood wizards are super racist and don't consider muggleborns full witches/wizards.
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Dec 1, 2013 21:51
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ashez2ashes posted:Some pure blood wizards are super racist and don't consider muggleborns full witches/wizards. I guess they're also super dickish about how far back your family is "pure"? Like, if you aren't on that chart from Grimmauld Place (with the Blacks, Malfoys, LeStranges, and a few others), you're a half-/mud-blood?
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Dec 1, 2013 22:59
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ashez2ashes posted:Some pure blood wizards are super racist and don't consider muggleborns full witches/wizards. All wizards consider Muggles to be less than human but the good ones believe that this doesn't give anyone the right to lynch them and that Muggleborns with magical potential should be integrated into Wizard society.
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Dec 1, 2013 23:54
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High Warlord Zog posted:All wizards consider Muggles to be less than human but the good ones believe that this doesn't give anyone the right to lynch them and that Muggleborns with magical potential should be integrated into Wizard society. Unless you are Weasly and you think that they are fascinating and its amazing how they are able to do things with magic.
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Dec 2, 2013 00:11
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1) Mr Weasley’s attitudes towards Muggles are basically, “look at these strange creatures who do things without magic. Aren’t they odd. Aren’t these strange and odd devices they have devised as alternatives to magic clever!” 2) Most other wizards consider Mr Weasley weird because of his interests in all things Muggle, 3) Mr Weasley is insanely ignorant of Muggles because 4) despite his interest in them it never occurs to him to go out and meet any or make any real effort to learn anything about them.
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Dec 2, 2013 00:36
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Duncan Doenitz posted:I guess they're also super dickish about how far back your family is "pure"? Like, if you aren't on that chart from Grimmauld Place (with the Blacks, Malfoys, LeStranges, and a few others), you're a half-/mud-blood? Pretty much! The standards are high enough that the pureblood population is diminishing rather than increasing, which you would expect to be occurring if the requirement were as simple as "all-magical grandparents" or something like that. Almost all of wizarding society is half-blood by Death Eater standards. It is clear, though, that it is possible for a family to become pureblood eventually - the Malfoys are much less ancient as a pureblood family than the Blacks, for example.
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Dec 2, 2013 01:21
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High Warlord Zog posted:1) Mr Weasley’s attitudes towards Muggles are basically, “look at these strange creatures who do things without magic. Aren’t they odd. Aren’t these strange and odd devices they have devised as alternatives to magic clever!” 2) Most other wizards consider Mr Weasley weird because of his interests in all things Muggle, 3) Mr Weasley is insanely ignorant of Muggles because 4) despite his interest in them it never occurs to him to go out and meet any or make any real effort to learn anything about them. basically muggles are lolcats to Arthur.
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Dec 3, 2013 02:33
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ashez2ashes posted:Some pure blood wizards are super racist and don't consider muggleborns full witches/wizards. It's what happens when cousins procreate. High Warlord Zog posted:4) despite his interest in them it never occurs to him to go out and meet any or make any real effort to learn anything about them. In a more non-comic relief way, I think Mr. Weasley would be more likely to hang out at a pub with muggles and get talked into supporting Man U.
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Dec 3, 2013 20:23
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I think that even Arthur Weasley, naïve as he is, realises that he'd stick out like a sore thumb in muggle society, which is apparently against the law. So he doesn't, preferring to focus exclusively on their gadgets.
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Dec 3, 2013 21:49
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I'd like to imagine Mr. Weasley is like the drunk english guy surrounded by american football fans at a bar in Texas. Completely overwhelmed and clueless about what was going on in the game, but very friendly and enthusiastic.
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Dec 3, 2013 22:11
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I imagine Mr. Weasley gets better after he interacts more and more with Hermione's parents, but god knows what they think of him.
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Dec 4, 2013 09:09
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Hermione's parents don't even know she exists anymore. She erased herself from their memories.
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Dec 4, 2013 12:46
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High Warlord Zog posted:Hermione's parents don't even know she exists anymore. She erased herself from their memories. I'm pretty sure it was temporary? Random trivia: Hermione's mum in that scene in the movie (visible for about 5 seconds) is Michelle Fairley who plays Catelyn Stark! I apologise for the meme, but... (Game of Thrones spoilers) 
Hedrigall fucked around with this message at 12:51 on Dec 4, 2013 |
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Dec 4, 2013 12:49
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High Warlord Zog posted:Hermione's parents don't even know she exists anymore. She erased herself from their memories. She says that if they survive she is going to restore their memories, but if she dies then they will never know that they had a daughter.
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Dec 4, 2013 15:36
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bobkatt013 posted:She says that if they survive she is going to restore their memories, but if she dies then they will never know that they had a daughter. While I really enjoy this scene in the movie, I can't help but roll my eyes at the concept. What about the countless people asking them how Hermione is doing at the prestigious boarding "muggle" school she's attending?
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Dec 10, 2013 02:53
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Bag of Sun Chips posted:While I really enjoy this scene in the movie, I can't help but roll my eyes at the concept. What about the countless people asking them how Hermione is doing at the prestigious boarding "muggle" school she's attending? In the book at least she sent them to Australia
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Dec 10, 2013 03:01
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What gives magical people the right to gently caress with Muggles' brains without their consent or knowledge? Hermione changing her parents' memories, their personalities, their identities is the zenith of "benevolent" Muggle abuse in the series. I love Harry Potter as much as the next person, but I really really hate how the witches and wizards persist in their campaign of lying and brainwashing to protect their secret. To my mind, the only legitimate argument for not bringing the veil down ASAP is that innocent people would be killed in literal witch hunts, but I just can't believe that the status quo can last.
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Dec 10, 2013 03:58
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Pththya-lyi posted:What gives magical people the right to gently caress with Muggles' brains without their consent or knowledge? Hermione changing her parents' memories, their personalities, their identities is the zenith of "benevolent" Muggle abuse in the series. I love Harry Potter as much as the next person, but I really really hate how the witches and wizards persist in their campaign of lying and brainwashing to protect their secret. To my mind, the only legitimate argument for not bringing the veil down ASAP is that innocent people would be killed in literal witch hunts, but I just can't believe that the status quo can last. Might is Right! Seriously though, nothing gives them the right. But I like those gray areas that Rowling introduces to spark debate. Hermione and her parents, Harry and his repeated use of Unforgivables. Ron and .... I don't think Ron really did anything wrong on that level, but may be forgetting. And the general rule breaking the trio got into doesn't really count.
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Dec 10, 2013 04:04
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Pththya-lyi posted:What gives magical people the right to gently caress with Muggles' brains without their consent or knowledge? Hermione changing her parents' memories, their personalities, their identities is the zenith of "benevolent" Muggle abuse in the series. I love Harry Potter as much as the next person, but I really really hate how the witches and wizards persist in their campaign of lying and brainwashing to protect their secret. To my mind, the only legitimate argument for not bringing the veil down ASAP is that innocent people would be killed in literal witch hunts, but I just can't believe that the status quo can last. Well she did do that for their own safety. Since she knew Death Eaters were going to go after them and saw it was the only choice she had.
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Dec 10, 2013 04:49
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It's still horrifically hosed up though.
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Dec 10, 2013 15:45
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bobkatt013 posted:In the book at least she sent them to Australia The cruelest punishment.
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Dec 10, 2013 21:20
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Alhazred posted:The cruelest punishment. Man, British wizards really are 200 years behind the times.
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Dec 10, 2013 21:44
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geeves posted:Ron and .... I don't think Ron really did anything wrong on that level, but may be forgetting. Walking out on his friends out of jealousy. Granted, it was partly due to cursed item whispering in his ear, but kind of a dick thing to do given how vital their task was.
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Dec 11, 2013 07:19
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Pththya-lyi posted:What gives magical people the right to gently caress with Muggles' brains without their consent or knowledge? Hermione changing her parents' memories, their personalities, their identities is the zenith of "benevolent" Muggle abuse in the series. I love Harry Potter as much as the next person, but I really really hate how the witches and wizards persist in their campaign of lying and brainwashing to protect their secret. To my mind, the only legitimate argument for not bringing the veil down ASAP is that innocent people would be killed in literal witch hunts, but I just can't believe that the status quo can last. Modifying the muggle campground owner's memory repeatedly in GoF is a great example of this.
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Dec 12, 2013 02:49
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Paragon8 posted:Modifying the muggle campground owner's memory repeatedly in GoF is a great example of this. While poo poo like this is on the surface played for laughs by Rowling in the first few books especially, I think it's pretty clear that this is supposed to be an example of hideous Ministry incompetence in the context of OotP, HBP and DH. It's a perfect storm of "respecting" Muggle law while utterly disrespecting the actual Muggles involved - the wizards pay the campground owner, but obliviate him about thirty times in the process. Wouldn't it have been easier to just use a combination of mild (one-time) memory modification and "You've won a free holiday to the south of France!" to get him away from his land for a few days or something? It demonstrates the way that wizarding society is really uncreative and ignorant in its dealings with Muggles, preferring the direct (and rather abusive) approach. This is in direct contrast to Dumbledore, for example, who manipulates the Dursleys into leaving in OotP using the "best-kept lawn contest" or whatever it was he did. The Ministry is so aggressively ignorant of Muggles that such an easy but indirect method of manipulating Muggle society is totally beyond them. Hermione is a little different, though, at least to me. This was an emergency situation that had nothing to do with keeping up the masquerade and everything to do with saving the Muggles in question - if she had modified their memories to protect wizards, well, that would be awful. Modifying their memories (temporarily) to protect them is hardly the zenith of benevolent abuse when there are far more egregious governmental examples you can look at. Jazerus fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Dec 13, 2013 |
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Dec 12, 2013 20:58
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Jazerus posted:Hermione is a little different, though, at least to me. This was an emergency situation that had nothing to do with keeping up the masquerade and everything to do with saving the Muggles in question - if she had modified their memories to protect wizards, well, that would be awful. Modifying their memories (temporarily) to protect them is hardly the zenith of benevolent abuse when there are far more egregious governmental examples you can look at. More than that, I think. She knows there's a good chance she isn't coming out of this alive, and would rather that they don't suffer for losing her in that case. Kinda heavy handed(if she'd asked them they'd surely rather remember), but you can see the reasoning.
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Dec 12, 2013 21:21
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veekie posted:More than that, I think. She knows there's a good chance she isn't coming out of this alive, and would rather that they don't suffer for losing her in that case. Kinda heavy handed(if she'd asked them they'd surely rather remember), but you can see the reasoning. Also, she's seventeen. She may be the brightest kid at Hogwarts, but she's still immature in some manners.
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Dec 12, 2013 23:28
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Jazerus posted:While poo poo like this is on the surface played for laughs by Rowling in the first few books especially, I think it's pretty clear that this is supposed to be an example of hideous Ministry incompetence in the context of OotP, HBP and DH. It's a perfect storm of "respecting" Muggle law while utterly disrespecting the actual Muggles involved - the wizards pay the campground owner, but obliviate him about thirty times in the process. Wouldn't it have been easier to just use a combination of mild (one-time) memory modification and "You've won a free holiday to the south of France!" to get him away from his land for a few days or something? It demonstrates the way that wizarding society is really uncreative and ignorant in its dealings with Muggles, preferring the direct (and rather abusive) approach. This is in direct contrast to Dumbledore, for example, who manipulates the Dursleys into leaving in OotP using the "best-kept lawn contest" or whatever it was he did. The Ministry is so aggressively ignorant of Muggles that such an easy but indirect method of manipulating Muggle society is totally beyond them. I'd like this to be true but Rowling mishandling House Elves and SPEW doesn't give me huge confidence in her ability to be so nuanced. I always found it really awkward that House Elf rights basically ended up just as a way throwaway line to get Ron and Hermione to kiss. No acknowledgement that they deserve more rights under wizard law or payment - it gets white washed by them being naturally inclined to be servants and everyone sort of ending up okay with that. Ron doesn't care about house elves as sentients, it's like making sure a pet is okay. As important as Kreacher and Dobby are to the story, house elves as a whole end up being relatively pointless when they could have been used to illustrate more of an opinion on classism. As is the message ends up basically being "some people enjoy being servants and you shouldn't interfere with that"
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Dec 13, 2013 03:31
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Paragon8 posted:As is the message ends up basically being "some people enjoy being servants and you shouldn't interfere with that" Also, "activism is stupid."
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Dec 13, 2013 03:37
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Pththya-lyi posted:Also, "activism is stupid." which seems crazy coming from the same author who included a great storyline with Harry and the DA combating Umbridge that sends a really good message about how authority can be oppressive and should be resisted etc.
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Dec 13, 2013 03:42
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Davros1 posted:Also, she's seventeen. She may be the brightest kid at Hogwarts, but she's still immature in some manners. I thought the main reason she made them forget her was that she could plant the idea of moving away to Australia... She was worried they would have refused to leave her in such a dangerous situation, stuck around, and gotten themselves killed.
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Dec 13, 2013 04:08
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Pththya-lyi posted:Also, "activism is stupid." No, it was "activism is stupid when you go about it the way Hermione does". Basically Hermione is coming from a place of privilege and is trying to convince the house-elves (and by extension everyone else I would say) that they are so very oppressed, and is also trying to underhandedly 'free' them. What she should have done is speak with them, understand what their issues actually ARE and go from there. I just finished a course where we talked about this exact thing and actually half the stuff that's been talked about on this page.
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Dec 13, 2013 17:10
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Nohtenki posted:No, it was "activism is stupid when you go about it the way Hermione does". Basically Hermione is coming from a place of privilege and is trying to convince the house-elves (and by extension everyone else I would say) that they are so very oppressed, and is also trying to underhandedly 'free' them. What she should have done is speak with them, understand what their issues actually ARE and go from there. Seems like regular student activism where they get all worked up about an issue, but are doing more about catchy phrases and symbolic actions than anything that the people they're supposedly fighting for need or want.
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Dec 13, 2013 18:50
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Nohtenki posted:No, it was "activism is stupid when you go about it the way Hermione does". Basically Hermione is coming from a place of privilege and is trying to convince the house-elves (and by extension everyone else I would say) that they are so very oppressed, and is also trying to underhandedly 'free' them. What she should have done is speak with them, understand what their issues actually ARE and go from there. That has always been my interpretation of the (non)resolution of the SPEW subplot as well - Hermione is smart enough to realize that her way of going about fighting the cause was useless and counterproductively annoying to everyone involved, plus the main plot intrudes and puts her in a position where she has to fight for basic rights for herself, let alone for house elves. I've always assumed Hermione would return to activism as an adult in a much better position to see change done, if not joining the Ministry itself to force through change. That's admittedly speculation about poo poo we'll never know about, but it seems natural enough that SPEW loses prominence without Hermione ever actually changing her beliefs much just due to the war.
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Dec 13, 2013 21:00
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Jazerus posted:That has always been my interpretation of the (non)resolution of the SPEW subplot as well - Hermione is smart enough to realize that her way of going about fighting the cause was useless and counterproductively annoying to everyone involved, plus the main plot intrudes and puts her in a position where she has to fight for basic rights for herself, let alone for house elves. I've always assumed Hermione would return to activism as an adult in a much better position to see change done, if not joining the Ministry itself to force through change. That's admittedly speculation about poo poo we'll never know about, but it seems natural enough that SPEW loses prominence without Hermione ever actually changing her beliefs much just due to the war. According to some interviews and such, Hermione does spend the rest of her life working for (and reforming) the ministry department that deals with magical creatures. Also Harry becomes an Auror, Ron does too and then quits to work at the joke shop, Neville becomes the Herbology professor and Luna becomes an explorer. I think, its been a while since I read it. Regardless, I think the SPEW plot was more about Hermione's personal shortcomings than it was about a statement on classism. She has some serious issues with being the smartest person and trying to impose her idea of how the world should work without considering how other people react. Rowling spends a ton of time on all three of the main character's flaws.
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Dec 13, 2013 21:19
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Zore posted:According to some interviews and such, Hermione does spend the rest of her life working for (and reforming) the ministry department that deals with magical creatures. Also Harry becomes an Auror, Ron does too and then quits to work at the joke shop, Neville becomes the Herbology professor and Luna becomes an explorer. I think, its been a while since I read it. Pertaining to the earlier discussion about "Muggle rights" too, you can read the last chapter where Ron and Harry talk about taking their driving tests as an indication that Wizard/Muggle relations are starting to open up (seriously, how many other wizards likely have driver's licenses based on what we saw in earlier books). And these changes are likely due to efforts made by this generation of Wizards, particularly Hermione and Harry. Like, one of the key themes of the seventh book was how even Dumbledore was also mostly wrong, and how Harry needed to move out of his shadow and start becoming his own man. Dumbledore cared enough about House Elves to treat them well while they remained slaves, he cared enough about humans to want to protect them, but he certainly didn't try to change the status quo of the wizard world. Now you have a bunch of wizards who have seen how there was a Great Wizarding War, then afterwards nothing changed and then the Second Wizarding War happened soon after and almost killed them. Obviously things don't change right away, but I always assumed by some of the hints mentioned above indicate that the survivors of the war from this generation (led by Harry and Hermione) start to actually work for change. The scene where Ron mentions the House Elves isn't there just so Hermione has an excuse to kiss him, it shows that even a dumb-dumb like Ron is starting to get how their dysfunctional relationships with other beings is leading to all sorts of hosed up problems (remember, Ron previously was always shown to be very conservative in his wizard society beliefs; he is certainly not as bad as the Malfoys but he still accepts things the way they are and is baffled by Harry and Hermione when they - being outsiders to this world - scoff at some super hosed up social standard).
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Dec 13, 2013 23:26
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Hello Harry Potter fans. I haven't read through your thread, but at the risk of kicking up a shitstorm, I'm going to ask a question: I just got done reading hpmor, and I thought it was pretty decent. I've been told that this is the place to come to have people convince me otherwise. So while I didn't think it was fantastic, could someone explain why it seems to be so reviled?
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Dec 15, 2013 00:54
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Pavlov posted:Hello Harry Potter fans. I haven't read through your thread, but at the risk of kicking up a shitstorm, I'm going to ask a question: I enjoy hpmor, but most people's beef with it is that the charm of HP is the magic world and the sense of wonder Harry has with it (and thus the reader does as well), which hpmor rips to shreds. Also it very blatantly has an agenda.
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Dec 15, 2013 01:57
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