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yes just let me commit 2-5 years of my life trying to package gnome for a bad linux whose leadership is hostile towards gnome (p.s. gnome 3 is an abomination)
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Dec 1, 2013 23:27
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I hated Joyent before they existed just for the after-the-fact copyright assignment request. Why did I ever agree to that? Too young and naïve.
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Dec 2, 2013 00:07
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:(p.s. gnome 3 is an abomination) hi i work on gnome3 at red hat yada yada yada i think we'v edone this before already. what are your big issues right now? everybody has a bunch of different problems with gnome3, and i have direct influence in the design process, and i really try and accommodate everybody's feedback.
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Dec 2, 2013 00:16
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Suspicious Dish posted:hi i work on gnome3 at red hat yada yada yada i think we'v edone this before already. i no longer have any gnome issues because i uninstalled it. i use kde now. a normal person can sit down in front of kde and immediately use it because it relies on familiar windows-esque models of window management and app launching and poo poo it also has thousands of available ui customizations, literally every aspect of window management and interface is customizable. (because the kde team didn't conclude features were a bad thing)
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Dec 2, 2013 00:28
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shrughes posted:I hated Joyent before they existed just for the after-the-fact copyright assignment request. Why did I ever agree to that? Too young and naïve. what were you hacking on that they demanded a copyright assignment for ?
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Dec 2, 2013 00:33
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:what were you hacking on that they demanded a copyright assignment for ? in its earlier days i fixed a bug where if you do a write of length 0 on a chunked transfer encoding-encoded stream, it would try to write a zero-length chunk delimited with a length of 0 -- but that's a special chunked transfer encoding chunk length value indicating the end of the chunked transfer encoding stream, so browsers would then treat that as the end of the stream that's actually a security flaw come to think of it.. so that makes me a hacker so leet then a few months later i got an email demanding a copyright transfer, and then a followup email saying i didn't fill out the form correctly, but i didn't respond to that oh i was completely not shocked to learn that the person who made the original gender-bending pronoun commit was none other than king_kilr
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Dec 2, 2013 00:52
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shrughes your posts about the pronoun thing in the coding horror thread are pretty terrible
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Dec 2, 2013 00:56
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Suspicious Dish posted:hi i work on gnome3 at red hat yada yada yada i think we'v edone this before already. because of you I tried out gnome3. "maybe i'm just being an old fart" i lasted two days before running into a cool bug where I lost keyboard functionality. no alt/ctrl/backspace. it wasn't the keyboard, because when I killed X remotely i got it back. i don't even give a poo poo about it being a different paradigm (not having a "open terminal" shortcut was p. lovely, no i'm not going loving edit a config and install some dumb poo poo), but that was the sort of bug i shouldn't see in something that's been released a while.
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Dec 2, 2013 01:01
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Opinion Haver posted:shrughes your posts about the pronoun thing in the coding horror thread are pretty terrible agreed
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Dec 2, 2013 01:13
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Opinion Haver posted:shrughes your posts about the pronoun thing in the coding horror thread are pretty terrible Bet he feels like a black man in the alleyway right about now.
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Dec 2, 2013 01:37
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Brain Candy posted:because of you I tried out gnome3. "maybe i'm just being an old fart" out of curiosity, what version were you running? we know of a bug in 3.4 that was fixed in 3.4.1 but some distros (debian) didn't seem to update when we released the new stable version, and we have no power over them to upgrade. Brain Candy posted:not having a "open terminal" shortcut was p. lovely it's two buttons inside the keyboard panel to create a new shortcut that's linked to ctrl+shift+t and launches your favorite terminal emulator. some people seem to complain that the desktop isn't configurable enough, and then when we add configuration they complain that "it's too much work" or something.
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Dec 2, 2013 01:40
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if people who think that editing 100+ line config files or stringing together tons of arcane commands and nonsensical arguments is a feature of an OS in 2013 are actually complaining about usability maybe you're implementation is beyond poo poo.
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Dec 2, 2013 02:14
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git clone trooper posted:if people who think that editing 100+ line config files or stringing together tons of arcane commands and nonsensical arguments is a feature of an OS in 2013 are actually complaining about usability maybe you're implementation is beyond poo poo. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSZVMOiQ92o
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Dec 2, 2013 02:55
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shell scripting isn't for everyone but drat it's fun
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Dec 2, 2013 02:56
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gnome 3 is missing basic features like the ability to set your desktop wallpaper to an image of your choice
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Dec 2, 2013 03:16
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pseudorandom name posted:gnome 3 is missing basic features like the ability to set your desktop wallpaper to an image of your choice the last time i used gnome3 a couple months ago even when i tried to change the background color to a different solid color it would show in the menu, but not actually do anything
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Dec 2, 2013 03:17
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gnome 3 is, at best, a decent window manager, but only if you install several extensions and change several hidden preferences them gnome 3 apps themselves are uniformly trash
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Dec 2, 2013 03:20
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Suspicious Dish posted:out of curiosity, what version were you running? we know of a bug in 3.4 that was fixed in 3.4.1 but some distros (debian) didn't seem to update when we released the new stable version, and we have no power over them to upgrade. it was fedora 18 (3.6?), so i laugh at you twice Suspicious Dish posted:it's two buttons inside the keyboard panel to create a new shortcut that's linked to ctrl+shift+t and launches your favorite terminal emulator. i was trying to be freed from my confining desktop paradigm here already. meanwhile, i wanted more terminals so i could still be productive while i was navigating the cliffs of ignorance. i'm going to mumble about discovery and then go back to being unsurprised that a linux doesn't get it.
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Dec 2, 2013 03:28
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pseudorandom name posted:gnome 3 is missing basic features like the ability to set your desktop wallpaper to an image of your choice drag it to the Pictures folder - there's a label there on the Pictures tab that even tells you it pulls the images from the Pictures folder. when we gave people a file chooser they grabbed things from external disks or nfs mounts that wouldn't be there when the system rebooted, and since those same people complained when we copied the image silently (you're wasting my disk space wtf??!!?), we have them explicitly copy it themselves so they know where it will be. Socracheese posted:the last time i used gnome3 a couple months ago even when i tried to change the background color to a different solid color it would show in the menu, but not actually do anything hm, just tried here and it worked fine. if you can reproduce, i'll look into it. a coworker rewrote the background handling code so that it's all hardware-accelerated instead of doing the crossfade on the cpu, and we've had a few regressions as a result. Brain Candy posted:it was fedora 18 (3.6?), so i laugh at you twice i legit haven't heard anything about these sort of bugs, and i haven't experienced it myself, so... my best guess is that it's a rogue app that's taking an active keyboard grab (firefox has had some bugs like this). there's a keybinding to kill the app that's currently taking a keyboard grab, but you have to explicitly turn it on since it will kill the screensaver and allow you back to your session if you press it. x sucks for allowing all this, yes. wayland won't have keyboard grabs. Brain Candy posted:i was trying to be freed from my confining desktop paradigm here already. meanwhile, i wanted more terminals so i could still be productive while i was navigating the cliffs of ignorance. i'm going to mumble about discovery and then go back to being unsurprised that a linux doesn't get it. what would you have preferred? what would have made it more discoverable for you?
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Dec 2, 2013 03:36
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i would like to posit that traditional math is the worst programming language ever. everyone uses different notation; a colon is essentially meaningless. oh you know what we'll call integers? a fancy Z! that makes sense right
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Dec 2, 2013 03:50
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Suspicious Dish posted:drag it to the Pictures folder - there's a label there on the Pictures tab that even tells you it pulls the images from the Pictures folder. there's no label and the Pictures tab itself doesn't even list all of the images in the top level of my pictures folder, much less any of the sub-folders. but it is helpful enough to sort the images in a random order and hide their file names.
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Dec 2, 2013 03:51
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Socracheese posted:i would like to posit that traditional math is the worst programming language ever. everyone uses different notation; a colon is essentially meaningless. oh you know what we'll call integers? a fancy Z! that makes sense right just because you've got a hammer doesn't mean everything's a nail. mathematical notation is not a programming language. also gottingen was the world capital of mathematics till the nazis showed up, and the Z makes sense if you sprechen sie deutsche
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Dec 2, 2013 03:58
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coffeetable posted:just because you've got a hammer doesn't mean everything's a nail. mathematical notation is not a programming language. yeah but my point is you have to know all the weird, arbitrary notation and exceptions, like a bad programming language i had two classes about set theory with two different instructors and the second guy used totally different notation, even different words for things. of course he demanded that his standard be adhered to and would not acknowledge anything that made sense but was not his notation granted this is anecdotal about my bad education, but would it kill them to make a set standard at least within a given topic?
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Dec 2, 2013 04:04
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pseudorandom name posted:there's no label and the Pictures tab itself doesn't even list all of the images in the top level of my pictures folder, much less any of the sub-folders. wow, that sounds super broken. when i wrote the code it certainly searched subfolders and displayed a spinner if it was still loading... i'll double-check tomorrow and make sure to fix it.
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Dec 2, 2013 04:11
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Socracheese posted:i would like to posit that traditional math is the worst programming language ever. everyone uses different notation; a colon is essentially meaningless. oh you know what we'll call integers? a fancy Z! that makes sense right
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Dec 2, 2013 04:13
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math is designed to be consumed by humans which means it's going to have overloaded and inconsistent semantics just like any other language. the fact that pi can both mean the constant and a projection operator is fine because there's basically no situation where you're dealing with both (and if you are you can just use proj for your operator) I'm curious as to what the two different notations you learned set theory using were since basic set theory is pretty well standardized; I agree for the most part that your classes should've just stuck with one
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Dec 2, 2013 04:20
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Suspicious Dish posted:drag it to the Pictures folder - there's a label there on the Pictures tab that even tells you it pulls the images from the Pictures folder. when we gave people a file chooser they grabbed things from external disks or nfs mounts that wouldn't be there when the system rebooted, and since those same people complained when we copied the image silently (you're wasting my disk space wtf??!!?), we have them explicitly copy it themselves so they know where it will be. this is what makes linux things bad, listening to nerd complaints causes compromise after compromise and the end result is something laughably over-complicated
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Dec 2, 2013 04:22
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i dont think "show a file picker" is a good ui, though. what if i want to pick a wallpaper from dropbox/google drive/flickr, since thats where i store my photos? i think we should encourage content management, not file management. instead of us having to shovel data from service to service (my fav is still having to download something to reupload it elsewhere) and from folder to folder, simply have a way to pick content from a service. the "pictures" folder thing is actually a compromise towards having this sort of content picker in the future. its something that i'm working on for the avatar picker, which can offer to simply pull your avatar from gravatar/google, and push it back up there too. it still offers a file picker for the fallback case, along with a simple box to crop the picture with, and a way to take a picture using your webcam as well.
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Dec 2, 2013 04:38
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:it also has thousands of available ui customizations, literally every aspect of window management and interface is customizable. (because the kde team didn't conclude features were a bad thing) 'let the user customize everything' is a bad ideology in general because a) it means you have to test more features to make sure that picking option X with setting Y doesn't blow everything up b) it means you're less likely to put work into making the defaults good
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Dec 2, 2013 04:50
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Opinion Haver posted:shrughes your pretty terrible
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Dec 2, 2013 04:55
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Opinion Haver posted:'let the user customize everything' is a bad ideology in general because it means i have to do actual work at my stupid job
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Dec 2, 2013 05:09
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let me try again. the major consistent interface for linux is the command line, which has some (horrible twisted) consistency across everybody's custom bs. a default keybinding to pop one open seems like it would be useful to 95% of the people who actually use the software (cjs and devs). Suspicious Dish posted:some people seem to complain that the desktop isn't configurable enough, and then when we add configuration they complain that "it's too much work" or something. people want the default configuration to be good enough that they only have to configure things if they feel like fiddling, not because they have to. this is not a new or surprising thing!
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Dec 2, 2013 05:11
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Opinion Haver posted:'let the user customize everything' is a bad ideology in general because i didn't read this post before i replied, i swear, but it's perfect
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Dec 2, 2013 05:18
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Socracheese posted:yeah but my point is you have to know all the weird, arbitrary notation and exceptions, like a bad programming language have you tried reading the book? usually the notation is in the book. if the instructor is a dick and doesnt match his notation to the textbook maybe google a bit and then just ask if you still dont get it. i kind of think that people just really dont understand the material to begin with and its not a notation problem. people complain about dots for time derivatives and stuff like that too, but if you understood what the material is i cant imagine that being a real sticking point.
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Dec 2, 2013 05:36
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funroll loops posted:have you tried reading the book? usually the notation is in the book. if the instructor is a dick and doesnt match his notation to the textbook maybe google a bit and then just ask if you still dont get it. *argues programming language syntax for 12 pages*
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Dec 2, 2013 05:43
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It's like those people who think programming would be much simpler if there was just some visual language to do it in. Because the notation is so hard. But that's not actually the problem.
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Dec 2, 2013 05:46
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when I used to teach some math it was a very recurrent thing seeing people hung up on notation. and it's kinda hard to explain how notation isn't really important without sounding cynical I blame early education for being so pragmatic with poo poo that doesn't matter and then in high school teachers start using f(x) and it's not actually f times x and no one says anything about it... whoa what's going on here math notation you're lying to me you disappointed me forever
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Dec 2, 2013 06:00
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I remember that f(x) thing. It happened in 5th grade -- the notation got introduced on the one day I was absent from school. The next day, they were talking about f(x) and I was completely confused. And then they explained it to me and I'm pretty sure nowadays (im way older now, way past 5th grade) i've gotten over it.
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Dec 2, 2013 06:06
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Brain Candy posted:people want the default configuration to be good enough that they only have to configure things if they feel like fiddling, not because they have to. this is not a new or surprising thing! we agree on this. of course defaults should be good. unfortunately the terminal is horribly bad as a ui. i think we want to make it accessible, but not confuse people who launch it by accident. every default keybinding we've tried to assign to it has pissed some people off. it used to be ctrl+shift+t, which is "undo close tab" in firefox, which confuses a bunch of people who come from windows. it then switched to ctrl+alt+shift+t, but that caused some compiz people to get mad, so then we tried super+t/win+t but people complained that it wasn't ergonomic, and that we should change it to something else. defaulting to "no keybinding" isnt the best solution, but its the best we've found. again, feel free to suggest a better default that might make some discoverable logic, and we'll consider it. tbh i dont have a terminal keybinding shortcut. i hit <super> and type 'term' and hit enter. launching any app should be super easy, and i dont see why a terminal should be an exception. if you want a custom keybinding to launch one, its not too hard to add one.
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Dec 2, 2013 06:11
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the other day one dude who is hella smart was complaining to me about how people don't write sin(x) with parenthesis to show that it's a function and I was like "this was never an important thing lol" I'll give that mixed fractions is the stupidest math notation though
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Dec 2, 2013 06:11
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