|
The_Frag_Man posted:Surprised the xbox one did so well. I wonder why. Maybe the PS4 case design puts people off. Most places are sold out of ps4s. Xbones are readily available everywhere. Im watching for Nintendo 3DSXls to go on sale this monday as I missed out on Bfridays target deals 
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 03:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 20:25 |
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Nintendo, truth be told, will probably recoup their expenses on things like SMBU and SMB3DW. Their Mario budgets are generally very conservative. What hurts them is that they're not turning a giant profit off them which can compensate for the other weaknesses, slow periods, and weaker releases. Things like Pikmin or W101 hurt them a lot more and recouping the costs for those is a lot harder. The Wii U doesn't have to be a total loss, but if they continue to repeat the Wii's lifespan and release another 2D Mario, 3D Mario, Zelda, etc. then the Nintendo THIS IS A TOTALLY NEW SYSTEM SERIOUSLY will likely suffer because you can't rely on nostalgia forever.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 03:38
|
|
|
Al Borland posted:Most places are sold out of ps4s. Xbones are readily available everywhere.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 06:52
|
|
|
Cliff Racer posted:Then why do most places seem to be saying that the PS4 and bone have sold about the same amount (despite the PS4 being available in Europe for a significantly shorter time than the Xbone was.) Wasn't Microsoft supposed to be having significant supply chain problems? I haven't seen anyone saying that that wasn't from before the launch of the PS4 in Europe. Initial reports put PS4 as 1million in the USA, and Xbone as 1million total. I have yet to see any revised numbers, if you have please show me I'm interested!
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 08:16
|
|
|
KittyEmpress posted:I haven't seen anyone saying that that wasn't from before the launch of the PS4 in Europe. I just checked, it appears that, contrary to what Al Borland said, both have sold out at least online. Articles on offline sales are contradictory at best (and basically nonexistent) right now. Anyways, if both the supply chain stuff and the dual sell-out things were true shouldn't the PS4 be pulling ahead due to having a greater total life-time to date supply to sell? Personally I suspect that the manufacturing problems were overblown and fanned by people who let their desire to see it fail cloud their judgement.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 08:51
|
|
|
The Taint Reaper posted:Well yeah Resident Evil 4 was expensive but people keep harping about Nintendo sitting on a boatload of money. I mean even making a companion game to X/Xenoblade sequel/side sequel on the 3DS would probably be worth it since they haven't had any of their newer series even come close to Mario and Zelda in terms of mascot status. Having a team of giant robot guys would probably freshen things up in the long run. You know how to keep sitting on a pile of money? Don't fart it into a furnace. If X does well they may do a handheld spinoff (I haven't been following the hype on this one so I don't know if it's likely to be popular or W101-esque "the small number of folks who like it REALLY like it") but it's not something you place a bet on before the main horse has even reached the racetrack.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 08:51
|
|
|
The UK continues to UK it up as Mario debuted 14th (1 spot behind Knack at 13th  ) and the PS4 has already sold more hardware there than the WII U has in the last year.
Crowbear fucked around with this message at 10:21 on Dec 2, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 10:18
|
|
|
And now, let's imagine the amount of money Nintendo would have made were Super Mario 3D World a PS4 launch title. Do they really need their own console hardware?
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 10:27
|
|
|
Fame Douglas posted:And now, let's imagine the amount of money Nintendo would have made were Super Mario 3D World a PS4 launch title. Do they really need their own console hardware? It isn't as simple as "Nintendo releases on PS4, gets all the money." Sony and Microsoft (and Nintendo themselves) all have a lot of control over third party developers and in ways which can be severely damaging to those developers. Look at MIcrosoft's poo poo-rear end patching policy on the 360 for example, with $40,000 patches and a complete denial of the ability to include free content updates for a lot of developers. No company in their right mind would give up having their own console unless they have absolutely no other choice because being forced to play in someone else's pool sucks. Nintendo may end up having to do that in the future but only if they have no other choice. As a company they would probably be perfectly happy to take fewer sales if all those sales are on their own platform. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 11:19 on Dec 2, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 11:11
|
|
|
None of the consoles actually need hardware. All of the games made on consoles could conceivably be ported to PC or mac. Granted some of those games would need strange motion control peripherals but it could work. As far as I can tell making gaming consoles is a long con where you lose money on the hardware and try to gain it back through licensing. This requires you or your third party work horse to actually sell a lot of games to work.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 11:13
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:It isn't as simple as "Nintendo releases on PS4, gets all the money." Sony and Microsoft (and Nintendo themselves) all have a lot of control over third party developers and in ways which can be severely damaging to those developers. Look at MIcrosoft's poo poo-rear end patching policy on the 360 for example, with $40,000 patches and a complete denial of the ability to include free content updates for a lot of developers. Selling your own console is a risky proposition. Most game publishers have, in fact, decided that they'd rather play in someone else's pool. Being bound to your own hardware that doesn't sell instead of the wider market can be severely damaging to your developers.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 11:17
|
|
|
Fame Douglas posted:Selling your own console is a risky proposition. Most game publishers have, in fact, decided that they'd rather play in someone else's pool. Being bound to your own hardware that doesn't sell instead of the wider market can be severely damaging to your developers. Most game publishers had to, not because they wanted to. Most third party developers couldn't sustain a console. If they could they would certainly do so. It's very easy to go "It's a win-win situation! All the games on one system!" but it isn't that simple or easy. For consumers, it means not having to purchase multiple systems, but it also means a lessening of the competition in the market, and that is never a good thing. From a corporate standpoint it means a lot of problems which don't exist under their current business model and a severe loss of control over what they can publish. I mean think about this: Do you really think Sony, with their own handheld device, would allow Nintendo to have unrestricted connectivity with 3DS stuff, or with some future Nintendo successor handheld? They'd want nothing to do with it because it would be aiding a direct competitor to their own hardware. Again, it may be a case where they have to, but no company with their own established console market would give that up unless they had absolutely no other choice. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 11:27 on Dec 2, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 11:21
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Most game publishers had to, not because they wanted to. Most third party developers couldn't sustain a console. They had to because producing their own console wasn't viable - and the same may be true of Nintendo. From a corporate standpoint, it also means not assuming lots of problems and risks they have to take with their own system right now. Corporations don't like losing control, but they like leaving money on the table even less. As a consumer, I don't think the exit of Nintendo from the console market would make any meaningful difference to the competitive situation: Tablets and smartphones alone are a big enough pressure on the console market and incentive to stay competitive. And regarding Wii U/3DS connectivity: Is there even any? The only thing coming seem to be Miiverse, something better integrated with smartphones and tablets as well as the web in general than a console.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 11:29
|
|
|
Fame Douglas posted:They had to because producing their own console wasn't viable - and the same may be true of Nintendo. From a corporate standpoint, it also means not assuming lots of problems and risks they have to take with their own system right now. Corporations don't like losing control, but they like leaving money on the table even less. It isn't as simple as leaving money on the table. The most short-term profitable thing is not always what is best for the company in the long run and once you give up control it becomes immensely hard, if not impossible, to get it back. Again, it may be that Nintendo is without a choice, but they have absolutely no reason to assume this until they really really have no other choice. A failed console is bad but (especially with their handheld market backing them up), it isn't yet necessarily 'completely throw in the towel' bad. Fame Douglas posted:As a consumer, I don't think the exit of Nintendo from the console market would make any meaningful difference to the competitive situation: Tablets and smartphones alone are a big enough pressure on the console market and incentive to stay competitive. And you would be demonstrably wrong about this. Last generation the Wii sparked both Sony and Microsoft to add new features to their systems. You're perfectly within your rights to say you don't care about the Move or Kinect, but they were direct responses to Nintendo's hardware and remain significant part of the current generation. Tablets and Smartphones exert pressure on the console market but not in the same way as a direct competitor. Their pricing models right now are the biggest thing putting pressure on consoles, and that is why XBO and PS4 are both looking at how to best implement F2P games. However smartphones and tablets have their own share of problems which prevent them from being direct competitors. Fame Douglas posted:And regarding Wii U/3DS connectivity: Is there even any? The only thing coming seem to be Miiverse, something better integrated with smartphones and tablets as well as the web in general than a console. There is, in a few different ways. Monster Hunter can cross-play between the 3DS and Wii U for example. There's also potential things they plan to do in the future (which they've talked about but haven't yet implemented.) However even something like their cross-platform Smash Brothers release could run into problems if Sony decided to make it one. However that loss of control is still significant even if they choose to do nothing with it, because it denies them the ability to do that if they should choose to in the future. If they wanted to create a cross-hardware ecosystem between their handheld and console games (like, y'know, Sony is doing with the Vita and PS4), they wouldn't be allowed to as long as Sony had their own handheld. Nintendo may very well be on the path where they absolutely can't compete in the console market anymore. I think it's looking pretty likely myself unless they pull some amazing turnaround. However they're not going to accept that unless they absolutely have to and it would be silly as a company for them to do anything else because it will have a significant impact on how they are able to function. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 12:11 on Dec 2, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 11:37
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:And you would be demonstrably wrong about this. Last generation the Wii sparked both Sony and Microsoft to add new features to their systems. You're perfectly within your rights to say you don't care about the Move or Kinect, but they were direct responses to Nintendo's hardware and remain significant part of the current generation. Just simply existing doesn't help things very much either, which is what the GameCube and the first Xbox more or less did in the PS2 era. It pretty much resulted in Sony getting over confident and left a huge opening for the 360 to become a very serious competitor, and there is, of course, the Wii. It's funny because the Wii's explosive success after the GameCube's performance appeared to do the same thing to Nintendo as the PS2's success did to Sony...except that in terms of systems sold, the Wii itself didn't outsell the competition to NEARLY the same degree that the PS2 did in its era. It also didn't help Nintendo's third party relations, hence all the jokes about unprecedented partnerships and the reality of the Wii U seeing all that third party support drying up. You're right that having competitors can drive a company to fight harder for their customers, though. Nintendo's going to have to put up a fight on par with the PS3 turnaround to change the Wii U's fortunes though, and they're not exactly inspiring confidence that they're going to do just that, or that they even can.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 12:17
|
|
|
fivegears4reverse posted:Just simply existing doesn't help things very much either, which is what the GameCube and the first Xbox more or less did in the PS2 era. It pretty much resulted in Sony getting over confident and left a huge opening for the 360 to become a very serious competitor, and there is, of course, the Wii. That is why the competition is good however. When a competitor gets overconfident or lazy, their competition can move in and hammer them hard. Microsoft got a good firm foothold by hitting Sony right where they were exposing their underbelly and Sony's recently hit back right as hard on Microsoft who did the exact same thing. "Just existing" can be enough when it leaves you in a position to captalize when the lead starts getting overconfident. (As, bizarrely, seems to happen every loving generation these days... all three companies have extremely short memories it seems.) The worst thing that can happen to any console is the creator getting complacent. Stuff like PSN+ was born right out of the direct need to compete and having only one serious source of competition limits how much pressure any console can get. I don't know if the Wii U can turn itself around. (As I said, I kind of doubt it at this point.) It'd be nice if it could though, if just to make sure that Microsoft and Sony have a potential third market who can call them on their poo poo if they get too comfortable. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 12:41 on Dec 2, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 12:21
|
|
|
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/440925/uk-ps4-sales-surpass-wii-us-lifetime-total/ Hardly a surprise, but drat. UK has clearly made their choice.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 12:48
|
|
|
TaurusOxford posted:http://www.computerandvideogames.com/440925/uk-ps4-sales-surpass-wii-us-lifetime-total/ Would seem so. PS4 and Xbox One have been advertising for months now, but the major boons I'd suspect were A) The PS4's 'for the player' ad, which has a lot of British stuff in and around the background B) Both being actually advertised in cinema, including before Day Of The Doctor, which is basically the one point anyone vaguely aware of British culture knows someone was gonna be sat in those seats. I'll just accept being weird by current standards now.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 13:15
|
|
|
KittyEmpress posted:I haven't seen anyone saying that that wasn't from before the launch of the PS4 in Europe. This isn't the thread to talk about PS4/One sales numbers. All that need to SE said is that the WiiU paled in comparison.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 14:03
|
|
|
Is the Xbox One the next Virtual Boy?
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 14:56
|
|
|
Astro Nut posted:Would seem so. PS4 and Xbox One have been advertising for months now, but the major boons I'd suspect were A) The PS4's 'for the player' ad, which has a lot of British stuff in and around the background B) Both being actually advertised in cinema, including before Day Of The Doctor, which is basically the one point anyone vaguely aware of British culture knows someone was gonna be sat in those seats. Yeah but Nintendo spent money by buying off reviewers and had them give Knack bad scores while giving 3D World high marks. I'm sure there's at least one die-hard Knack fan who seriously thinks this in order to justify the reviews it got.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 15:54
|
|
|
There are simply more ps4s in consumer hands than Wii Us in the UK market. So it stands to reason that a game will simply sell more on that system regardless of the quality. But thats not really whats really bad about 3d world. Nintendo basically sent it to die. They knew it wasn't going to sell well, their shipment quantities said as much. They doesn't seem to have any faith in its franchises bring up the wii u anymore.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 16:00
|
|
|
Cao Ni Ma posted:There are simply more ps4s in consumer hands than Wii Us in the UK market. So it stands to reason that a game will simply sell more on that system regardless of the quality. They'll make their money back on 3D World the only way they know how. Catsuit plush toys of the main cast, including Rosalina.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 16:03
|
|
|
Man, if I had held out for a ps4 over the Wii U, I could be playing knack right now.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 16:57
|
|
|
So it seems to me that Sony and Microsoft are both hoping for another extra-long generation out to ~2020. (7-8 years rather than 4-5 like it used to be). Maybe Nintendo's move is to release a new console in 2017 or 2018 that's significantly more powerful than the PS4/ XBoxOne but still years ahead of when PS5/XBoxZero come out? Maybe, if it needs the Nintendo Gimmick, it could come with integrated Oculus Rift headset motion controllers. Imagine THAT Golf game.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 17:10
|
|
|
Patter Song posted:So it seems to me that Sony and Microsoft are both hoping for another extra-long generation out to ~2020. (7-8 years rather than 4-5 like it used to be). Maybe Nintendo's move is to release a new console in 2017 or 2018 that's significantly more powerful than the PS4/ XBoxOne but still years ahead of when PS5/XBoxZero come out? Maybe, if it needs the Nintendo Gimmick, it could come with integrated Oculus Rift headset motion controllers. Imagine THAT Golf game. That's what I thought their play would be this time, but they released it too late and failed to use their head start at all. Doing it again(with more lead time) seems particularly all-in and risky. Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Dec 2, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 17:14
|
|
|
Patter Song posted:So it seems to me that Sony and Microsoft are both hoping for another extra-long generation out to ~2020. (7-8 years rather than 4-5 like it used to be). Maybe Nintendo's move is to release a new console in 2017 or 2018 that's significantly more powerful than the PS4/ XBoxOne but still years ahead of when PS5/XBoxZero come out? Maybe, if it needs the Nintendo Gimmick, it could come with integrated Oculus Rift headset motion controllers. Imagine THAT Golf game. You would hope Nintendo would try to dodge a little history repeating but who knows what their next move is but I feel they had a good potential of a 'new gimmick' with that one head tracking thing that one guy put together with the Wii remote.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 17:27
|
|
|
And this is what happens when you try to market consoles to people who think of them like they think of toasters. Like I've said before, Grandma already has a Wii. What does she need another one for?
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 17:29
|
|
|
Their next gimmick should be a hand held you can hook up to the TV.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 17:30
|
|
|
I think Nintendo realized that the crowd that bought eleventy billion Wiis to play Wii Sports was not likely to come back for their next console. The problem is that they tried to woo what they referred to as "core gamers" after basically abandoning them for a generation with hardware that was a year out from becoming obsolete. I think the tablet is pretty cool, and want to see more games making good use of it, but most of the AAA game developers and the crowds that they bring are more interested in how many polygons are on screen than making those polygons do something new.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 18:10
|
|
|
Zack_Gochuck posted:Their next gimmick should be a hand held you can hook up to the TV. No gimmicks, god drat it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 18:23
|
|
|
Zack_Gochuck posted:Their next gimmick should be a hand held you can hook up to the TV. So, they will be copying the Vita TV? 
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 18:29
|
|
|
Zack_Gochuck posted:Their next gimmick should be a hand held you can hook up to the TV. They actually regressed in this department, with everything up to the GBA being TV Out capable in a roundabout way, but no official solution for the DS and beyond. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 18:30
|
|
|
Zack_Gochuck posted:Their next gimmick should be a hand held you can hook up to the TV. Sooo a portable console, basically? They'd essentially be carving into the profits of their normal portable business if they did that.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 18:35
|
|
|
Louisgod posted:Sooo a portable console, basically? They'd essentially be carving into the profits of their normal portable business if they did that. No, one system and that's it. I'm talking about Nintendo abandoning the home console market and making a Nintendo DS system with an HDMI port or some poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 18:40
|
|
|
Zack_Gochuck posted:No, one system and that's it. I'm talking about Nintendo abandoning the home console market and making a Nintendo DS system with an HDMI port or some poo poo. I guess logically that seems like the most progressive step for them assuming that their console business is red but I'd be really, really surprised if they ever let go of the living room. There's just too much potential profit to be had.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 18:47
|
|
|
If they went with a project that consolidated both their consoles and handhelds and were actually serious about getting it out within the next few years, the biggest negative would be killing off the 3/2DS before it's time was up. The original Game Boy lasted almost an entire decade, more if you include the Game Boy Color as a revision instead of an entirely new piece of hardware. The DS was kicking around for seven years... But putting it to bed early wouldn't exactly be a new thing for them mind you. They did it before with the GBA after Sony announced the PSP was in development in 2003. The Advance only had three to four years as the big fish in the pond before they started devoting most of their resources to the DS. Even with titles like Mother 3 and Minish Cap coming after the DS launch they had pretty much switched over entirely at some point in 2005.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 18:55
|
|
|
A handheld with a docking station that has built-in graphics hardware that pushes up the on-screen res. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 19:16
|
|
|
Louisgod posted:I guess logically that seems like the most progressive step for them assuming that their console business is red but I'd be really, really surprised if they ever let go of the living room. There's just too much potential profit to be had.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 19:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 20:25 |
|
|
univbee posted:A handheld with a docking station that has built-in graphics hardware that pushes up the on-screen res. Developers could make games for this complex POS, or they could make games for a more powerful (and probably more popular) console that has no dumb gimmick like that.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2013 19:27
|
|