Coding Horrors: You can gather all your technical debt into one easy framework!

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«‹›1503 »

Pilsner: Nov 23, 2002

Suspicious Dish posted:

It's one of the many things that make women feel excluded. There's a lot of work to be done, certainly, but every little bit helps. If there's 50 small things that all combine to make them excluded, well, remove one here, remove one there, and suddenly we're down to 20 things, and they'll feel a lot better.

GNOME also runs a Women's Outreach Program, where we contact students in university, etc. 30-40% of our contributors are women. We run surveys at the end of all our mentorship programs that ask women why they haven't contributed to open-source before if they haven't, and it's always the small issues like this: the male-centric jokes in the bug tracker, the pronouns in the documentation, etc. It all contributes to making them feel like they don't belong.

Give me a break. Have you seen the share of women on a tech engineering course? They don't even attempt to sign up, and you can't tell me it's because the male students are scaring them off, because how would the women even know before they got there?

Men and women pursue and enjoy different things. You're making up a non-existing "problem" (that there are too few women in software). I myself will fully respect any woman in IT who does a good job, like I will respect a man.

"There's a lot of work to be done", haha.

# ? Dec 2, 2013 08:33

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# ? May 17, 2024 13:42

het: Nov 14, 2002; A dark black past
is my most valued
possession

Pilsner posted:

Give me a break. Have you seen the share of women on a tech engineering course? They don't even attempt to sign up, and you can't tell me it's because the male students are scaring them off, because how would the women even know before they got there?

Men and women pursue and enjoy different things.

Have you ever asked yourself why that might be? I'm kidding, I know the answer to that question.

# ? Dec 2, 2013 08:45

Opinion Haver: Apr 9, 2007

See women are more drawn to the color pink which looks like red, the color of compiler errors, so women are more subconsciously inclined to make mistakes while programming. I'm sorry, it's a scientific fact.

# ? Dec 2, 2013 08:47

Maluco Marinero: Jan 18, 2001; Damn that's a
fine elephant.

Pilsner posted:

Men and women pursue and enjoy different things. You're making up a non-existing "problem" (that there are too few women in software). I myself will fully respect any woman in IT who does a good job, like I will respect a man.

"There's a lot of work to be done", haha.

I'd like to think we're all on the same team but statements like these are hilariously out of touch with actual reports made by actual women in software and related fields. And this is ignoring the fact that the original programmers were women, because it was erroneously thought to be low level clerical work. Reports are they were pretty damned good at it too and ended up going well beyond their station as simple 'coders' because the managers really didn't understand what the tasks would entail.

# ? Dec 2, 2013 09:03

Strong Sauce: Jul 2, 2003; You know I am not really your father.

Pilsner posted:

Give me a break. Have you seen the share of women on a tech engineering course? They don't even attempt to sign up, and you can't tell me it's because the male students are scaring them off, because how would the women even know before they got there?

Men and women pursue and enjoy different things. You're making up a non-existing "problem" (that there are too few women in software). I myself will fully respect any woman in IT who does a good job, like I will respect a man.

"There's a lot of work to be done", haha.

Sorry dude, no one arguing here is saying anything remotely to this, and I doubt anyone would agree.

Maluco Marinero posted:

I'd like to think we're all on the same team but statements like these are hilariously out of touch with actual reports made by actual women in software and related fields. And this is ignoring the fact that the original programmers were women, because it was erroneously thought to be low level clerical work. Reports are they were pretty damned good at it too and ended up going well beyond their station as simple 'coders' because the managers really didn't understand what the tasks would entail.

Yup.

Strong Sauce fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Dec 2, 2013

# ? Dec 2, 2013 09:20

karms: Jan 22, 2006; by Nyc_Tattoo; Yam Slacker

Good to know bikeshedding isn't applicable to business matters only.

# ? Dec 2, 2013 09:31

Pilsner: Nov 23, 2002

Maluco Marinero posted:

I'd like to think we're all on the same team but statements like these are hilariously out of touch with actual reports made by actual women in software and related fields. And this is ignoring the fact that the original programmers were women, because it was erroneously thought to be low level clerical work. Reports are they were pretty damned good at it too and ended up going well beyond their station as simple 'coders' because the managers really didn't understand what the tasks would entail.

Referring to how the job field used to be 40-50 years ago is pretty irrelevant.

Sorry, but I cannot dig up one ounce of care with regards to the lack of women in computing. Like shrughes said, try focusing on some real problems instead.

# ? Dec 2, 2013 11:07

Maluco Marinero: Jan 18, 2001; Damn that's a
fine elephant.

Pilsner posted:

Referring to how the job field used to be 40-50 years ago is pretty irrelevant.

Sorry, but I cannot dig up one ounce of care with regards to the lack of women in computing. Like shrughes said, try focusing on some real problems instead.

I'm gonna leave it at this cause this is meant to be CoC, not D&D, but your disregard is pretty telling. A lack of representation heavily contributes to racial and sexual discrimination within a given field, be it politics or business. From your lack of care I imagine you've never been on the business end of that discrimination otherwise you'd class it as a real problem. It is about as real as problems get mate.

# ? Dec 2, 2013 11:25

breaks: May 12, 2001

I already know this is going to turn into a ha-ha, fooled you guys, I was trollin yalls good kind of thing, but I can't resist saying it, Pilsner's posts on this page are honestly the stupidest poo poo I've seen in my entire 12+ years on these very forums, and god drat there has been a lot of stupid poo poo in that timeframe.

breaks fucked around with this message at 12:09 on Dec 2, 2013

# ? Dec 2, 2013 12:03

libcxx: Mar 15, 2013; thread_local post<shit> shit_post("lol if u");

You see when you post like Shrughes, you're now the black person in an alley and

# ? Dec 2, 2013 13:21

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

Pilsner posted:

Give me a break. Have you seen the share of women on a tech engineering course? They don't even attempt to sign up, and you can't tell me it's because the male students are scaring them off, because how would the women even know before they got there?

Maybe they've read your posts.

Pilsner posted:

Men and women pursue and enjoy different things. You're making up a non-existing "problem" (that there are too few women in software). I myself will fully respect any woman in IT who does a good job, like I will respect a man.

I sincerely doubt the latter sentiment.

Someone tell me when we go back to awful code and not awful dave winer impressions tia.

# ? Dec 2, 2013 13:41

Dicky B: Mar 23, 2004

AIDS

# ? Dec 2, 2013 13:41

Pilsner: Nov 23, 2002

OK, here's some old school code. It's from an application developed on mainframe, which moved to OS/2, then DOS, then Windows. Written in Pascal and Delphi. It was started in the 80's, and this code probably hasn't changed much.

Behold the content of the "EDSGSEU_.SKM" file, one of hundreds of such types in the system:

code:

================================================================================
STATUS   :
DATE     : ````````          E J E R U D G I F T

@stSagsNr  ^^^^^^^^ @``)@`stAdresse```````````````` @arEjdSkat Ejd. skat. ^^^^

@```````````````````````````````````````@~@~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                Bel�b   Antal   Ialt kr                 Bel�b   Antal   Ialt kr
               pr. bet. pr. �r   pr. �r                pr. bet. pr. �r   pr. �r
>2  kat-type1: ^^^^^^^^^  ^^  `````````  E-skat-type2: ^^^^^^^^^  ^^  `````````
 E-skat-type3: ^^^^^^^^^  ^^  `````````  E-skat-type4: ^^^^^^^^^  ^^  `````````
 Renovation..: ^^^^^^^^^  ^^  `````````  Skorstensfej: ^^^^^^^^^  ^^  `````````
 Antenneafg..: ^^^^^^^^^  ^^  `````````
 Grundejerfor: ^^^^^^^^^  ^^  `````````
 F�llesudgift: ^^^^^^^^^  ^^  `````````

Andre off. afgifter p� salgsopstilling:
 Vejbidrag...: ^^^^^^^^^  ^^  `````````  Energiafgift: ^^^^^^^^^  ^^  `````````
 Skadedyrsbek: ^^^^^^^^^  ^^  `````````  Milj�afgift.: ^^^^^^^^^  ^^  `````````
<Rensn.anl�g.: ^^^^^^^^^  ^^  `````````  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ^^^^^^^^^  ^^  `````````
@~~~~~~~~~~~~~@^^^^^^^^^ @^^ @````````` @~~~~~~~~~~~~~@^^^^^^^^^ @^^ @`````````
@~
==================================================================
:FIELDNAME           : VALUE     :E:C:      CONDITION          :FUNCTION   :T:PA:'OVERVIEW':
@ptSag.ptEjendom     :           :R: :                         :           : :  :          :
:stSagsNr            :           :E: :                         :EFSAGSNR   :S: 2:'SAG'     :
:iEjdType            :           : : :                         :           :i:  :          :
:stAdresse           :           : : :                         :           :S:  :          :
:arEjdSkat           :>1900      : : :                         :           :I:  :          :
:stFordelLedTxt      :           :E: :                         :           :S:  :          :
:chFUFordelkode      :IN ['A','T': :U:Betingel                 :EFchFordel :C:10:'FUFORDEL':
:                    :,'X']      :-: :                         :           : :  :          :
:stFUFordelTekst     :           : : :Betingel                 :           :S:  :          :
:stEUBesk            :           :E: :Betingel                 :           :S:  :          :
:krEU                :           :E: :Betingel                 :EFkrEU     :r:  :          :
:iEUPA               :> 0        :E: :krEU[AAx] > 0            :EFiEUPA    :i:  :          :
:krEUPA              :           :E: :Betingel                 :           :r:  :          :
:stEUBesk            :           :E: :Betingel                 :           :S:  :          :
:krEU                :           :E: :Betingel                 :EFkrEU     :r:  :          :
:iEUPA               :> 0        :E: :krEU[AAx] > 0            :EFiEUPA    :i:  :          :
:krEUPA              :           :E: :                         :           :r:  :          :
:chSlut              :           :E: :                         :FFSSlut    :C:  :          :
:                    :           : : :                         :           : :  :          :

You can tell it represents a primitive GUI in a DOS console window. Upon building the system, these types of files were parsed and turned into code. The ^^^^^^^^, ~~~~~~~~ and ```````` lines indicate a field that's replaced, and I guess the type varies depending on the data type. Below is a list of variables. In sequence, the value of these variables go in and replace the "fields" in the console window, along with an absurd system that allows fixed values, conditions, function calls to get the value, and more crazyness.

:psyduck:

This system lived in production until around 2010. I found a comment in a file from 1982.

In other horrors, it required about 5 different mapped network paths just to compile, because it had C #includes with hardcoded network paths (like X:\blah). The whole system had pieces in Pascal, Delphi, C, C++, VB6 and .NET. Most files were in 8.3 name format.

breaks posted:

I already know this is going to turn into a ha-ha, fooled you guys, I was trollin yalls good kind of thing, but I can't resist saying it, Pilsner's posts on this page are honestly the stupidest poo poo I've seen in my entire 12+ years on these very forums, and god drat there has been a lot of stupid poo poo in that timeframe.

The fact that you think my posts are the stupidest you've seen in 12+ years on the forums is the stupidest thing I've heard in 11+ years on the forums. You must not have seen me post about C++ back in the early 2000's when I was new to programming.

# ? Dec 2, 2013 14:24

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

Blinkz0rz posted:

You're actually trying to argue that "he" is gender neutral. This is a thing you're doing. God loving drat that's some dumb poo poo. Seriously. gently caress, man. Goddamn.

Yes, this has been literally true in this sort of context since the late Old English period (ca. AD 1000 or so, although extant written works are reasonably scarce so it's difficult to trace when exactly the usage began, besides the normal problems with determining informal/spoken usage from formal/written works and the vast number of dialects typical of languages from that era). The rule for the unambiguously neuter use of 'he' has been termed 'the male embracing the female' in the past (Churchill mentioned this once).

The use of 'they' for a similar purpose dates from just a little bit later, and both forms have both been in continuous use as a neuter third person singular pronoun for hundreds of years now. Both have their problems, as do more recent attempts to crack this particular egg by using the feminine pronoun throughout in a neuter context ("the female embracing the male"), alternating between masculine and feminine pronouns, etc.

The use of 'he' in this context may be related to a general mixup of masculine and neuter nouns and pronouns that occurred starting a few hundred years before the Norman conquest (if you were translating a Latin document which contained 'homo' and 'vir' into "English" circa AD 500, and translated the same document in AD 900 and AD 1300, you would have translated both terms differently two or three times. 'Man' and 'wer' switched(!) meanings in that period, English lost gender for most nouns and lost some of its special and neuter cases, etc; this is the same time period ).

# ? Dec 2, 2013 15:09

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

This is why the first step to fixing education is to restore the classical trivium of grammar, logic and rhetoric as the basis of education, btw

# ? Dec 2, 2013 15:12

Zombywuf: Mar 29, 2008

Otto Skorzeny posted:

This is why the first step to fixing education is to restore the classical trivium of grammar, logic and rhetoric as the basis of education, btw

I'd prefer mnemonics, coding and fencing.

# ? Dec 2, 2013 15:15

IT BEGINS: Jan 15, 2009; I don't know how to make analogies

Pilsner posted:

Men and women pursue and enjoy different things.

Never thought I'd see :biotruths:

in the Coding Horrors thread, but then I'm pretty naive about these things.

Maybe this thread should be like gamers.txt - post codehorrorgrog or get banned.

---

No nice sample code to post, but my coworkers insist on using php's extract. Everywhere. For those not familiar with this fantastic function, it lets you dump the keys of an associative array into the symbol table as variables. In practice, this means you have no clue where the hell a particular variable came from, even in an IDE, since lovely code quality means variables are referenced and re-assigned multiple times. Hours spent looking through functions with signatures and code like this:

php:

<?
function shit_function()
{
    global $database, $library;
    extract($library)
    
    ...
}
?>

# ? Dec 2, 2013 15:35

Volmarias: Dec 31, 2002; EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...

The fact that this thread has derailed into D&D is the real horror.

More coding horrors, please.

# ? Dec 2, 2013 15:49

ninjeff: Jan 19, 2004

Volmarias posted:

The fact that this thread has derailed into D&D is the real horror.

More coding horrors, please.

please don't bring up human problems in my autism safespace

# ? Dec 2, 2013 15:55

Suspicious Dish: Sep 24, 2011; 2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro; Fun Shoe

Pilsner posted:

Give me a break. Have you seen the share of women on a tech engineering course? They don't even attempt to sign up, and you can't tell me it's because the male students are scaring them off, because how would the women even know before they got there?

Yes. I occasionally along with the OPW organizer to college visits to announce the mentor program. In the freshman university courses, there's consistently a 30-40% female markup.

Pilsner posted:

Men and women pursue and enjoy different things. You're making up a non-existing "problem" (that there are too few women in software). I myself will fully respect any woman in IT who does a good job, like I will respect a man.

"There's a lot of work to be done", haha.

Holy poo poo, how is your posting worse than shrughes?

# ? Dec 2, 2013 16:01

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

Volmarias posted:

More coding horrors, please.

Here's the "password" "hash" function from a $4000 product (actually C rather than C++ but the code tag on this forum doesn't have syntax highlighting for C)

C++ code:

int access(enum pw_type type_code, uint16_t num) {
	extern foo SYS;
	
   union acode {
      unsigned char b[2];
      uint16_t  w ;
   } incode, outcode ;

   incode.w = SYS.sn ;            // use the serial number to calc code

   if (type_code == CAL_CODE) {
                                  // do owner name entry security check here
      outcode.b[0] = ~incode.b[1] ;
      outcode.b[1] = incode.b[0] ;
   }
   if (type_code == NAME_CODE)  {
                                  // do calibration entry security check here
      outcode.b[0] = incode.b[1] ;
      outcode.b[1] = ~incode.b[0] ;
   }
                                  // disallow zero but make the two codes different
   if (outcode.w == 0 )  {
      if (type_code == NAME_CODE)
                outcode.w = 2 ;
      if (type_code == CAL_CODE)
                outcode.w = 1 ;
   }
                                  // use at least 4 digits
   if (outcode.w < 10000)
      outcode.w += 10000 ;

                                  // compare to user entered number
   if (num == outcode.w)
      return TRUE;
   else
      return FALSE;
}

# ? Dec 2, 2013 16:03

fritz: Jul 26, 2003

Pilsner posted:

you can't tell me it's because the male students are scaring them off, because how would the women even know before they got there?

Just because they're only 18 doesn't mean freshman boy CS majors don't have a rep yet.

# ? Dec 2, 2013 16:39

JawnV6: Jul 4, 2004; So hot ...

Freakus posted:

(Hint: check their openssl dependency).

What does this mean?

# ? Dec 2, 2013 18:03

Dren: Jan 5, 2001; Pillbug

Vasja posted:

Someone please explain this smiley, or, if you think I would be happier being totally ignorant of what it means, please don't.

Suspicious Dish posted:

I've witnessed several times where a male sneer in disgust at women walking into a BoF at FOSDEM and claim that this is a geek-only establishment

That is incredibly lovely behavior.

# ? Dec 2, 2013 18:21

prefect: Sep 11, 2001; No one, Woodhouse.
No one.; Dead Man’s Band

Dren posted:

Someone please explain this smiley, or, if you think I would be happier being totally ignorant of what it means, please don't.

It's got a pretty thorough SAclopedia entry.

# ? Dec 2, 2013 18:28

FamDav: Mar 29, 2008

Dren posted:

Someone please explain this smiley, or, if you think I would be happier being totally ignorant of what it means, please don't.

its shorthand for "science/genetics/whatever dictates that women like baking cookies and only men belong in the workplace.

# ? Dec 2, 2013 18:29

shrughes: Oct 11, 2008; (call/cc call/cc)

Okay, so, back to the topic of coding horrors...

I can't even make this stuff up. Ever want to make sed or grep worse? Check this out: https://github.com/harthur/replace

# ? Dec 2, 2013 19:11

return0: Apr 11, 2007

shrughes posted:

Okay, so, back to the topic of coding horrors...

I can't even make this stuff up. Ever want to make sed or grep worse? Check this out: https://github.com/harthur/replace

Are you deliberately trolling given the previous topic? http://jaxenter.com/my-code-is-so-bad-it-makes-people-s-eyes-bleed-46072.html / http://harthur.wordpress.com/2013/01/24/771/

# ? Dec 2, 2013 19:13

shrughes: Oct 11, 2008; (call/cc call/cc)

No, it was a complete coincidence that I quoted verbatim two of the tweets.

# ? Dec 2, 2013 19:15

RoadCrewWorker: Nov 19, 2007; camels aren't so great

So who's gimmick shitpost account are you again?

# ? Dec 2, 2013 19:16

return0: Apr 11, 2007

shrughes posted:

No, it was a complete coincidence that I quoted verbatim two of the tweets.

Cool just checking

# ? Dec 2, 2013 19:18

Dren: Jan 5, 2001; Pillbug

prefect posted:

It's got a pretty thorough SAclopedia entry.

thanks.

# ? Dec 2, 2013 19:40

Suspicious Dish: Sep 24, 2011; 2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro; Fun Shoe

shrughes posted:

No, it was a complete coincidence that I quoted verbatim two of the tweets.

I know you're desperately trying to take back the "Worst Poster Award" from Pilsner, but you're going to have to try harder. Maybe compare 9/11 and buffer overflow attacks? Or try to establish a correlation between programming languages and political ideologies?

# ? Dec 2, 2013 19:59

prefect: Sep 11, 2001; No one, Woodhouse.
No one.; Dead Man’s Band

Suspicious Dish posted:

Or try to establish a correlation between programming languages and political ideologies?

Somebody who's really funny and creative should do something with this idea. I'd read it.

# ? Dec 2, 2013 20:03

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

Suspicious Dish posted:

I know you're desperately trying to take back the "Worst Poster Award" from Pilsner, but you're going to have to try harder. Maybe compare 9/11 and buffer overflow attacks? Or try to establish a correlation between programming languages and political ideologies?

Pot kettle etc

# ? Dec 2, 2013 20:13

Suspicious Dish: Sep 24, 2011; 2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro; Fun Shoe

prefect posted:

Somebody who's really funny and creative should do something with this idea. I'd read it.

It was a reference to this piece of poo poo that Steve Yegge cranked out one day.

# ? Dec 2, 2013 20:14

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

prefect posted:

Somebody who's really funny and creative should do something with this idea. I'd read it.

Here is the post from Steve "Fred Lowenol" Yegge that suspicious dish was referring to in case you were blissfully unaware https://plus.google.com/110981030061712822816/posts/KaSKeg4vQtz

# ? Dec 2, 2013 20:15

prefect: Sep 11, 2001; No one, Woodhouse.
No one.; Dead Man’s Band

Suspicious Dish posted:

It was a reference to this piece of poo poo that Steve Yegge cranked out one day.

Otto Skorzeny posted:

Here is the post from Steve "Fred Lowenol" Yegge that suspicious dish was referring to in case you were blissfully unaware https://plus.google.com/110981030061712822816/posts/KaSKeg4vQtz

Whoops. I had been unaware. :blush:

There are a couple of interesting things in there, as long as you don't try to take it very seriously. (Also some stupid poo poo.) Although I tend to think of developers as a bunch of raving whackaloons who want to try crazy new poo poo, while DBAs and operations folks are dedicated to making sure nothing ever changes, because then something will break.

# ? Dec 2, 2013 20:20

Suspicious Dish: Sep 24, 2011; 2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro; Fun Shoe

Otto Skorzeny posted:

Pot kettle etc

If I ever make some lovely posting, please call me out on it. Don't have to be a Mr. Buttchin Jerkface about it.

# ? Dec 2, 2013 20:24

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 17, 2024 13:42

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

Suspicious Dish posted:

Mr. Buttchin Jerkface

Is this too long for a username? :getin:

# ? Dec 2, 2013 20:33

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > The Cavern of COBOL > Coding Horrors: You can gather all your technical debt into one easy framework!

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