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xeria posted:I get that, but also going "well he becomes Tiddlywinks and she becomes Angerbang and the other guy will eventually be Smorgasbord the Barbarian and how cool will it turn out to be in the show and I wonder when it'll happen" isn't the same thing as discussing it after it actually happens. That's what I think Mr Beens is getting at -- the comic links are cool, and certainly worthy of discussion, but it detracts a little from watching the show as standalone material to have people constantly talking about how awesome it's going to be in some indeterminate future when Billy turns into Arrow's arch-nemesis, Smorgasbord, when Smorgasbord does not actually 'exist' in the show yet. We actually didn't know it was Sarah who would be Canary until after the first Season. Everyone assumed it would be Laurel eventually. The creators have been pretty free with information which leads to situations in this thread where the creators have pretty much said, Yo, Sarah is coming back this year and will be Canary. Since Casting news is no longer a spoiler, you end up in situations where we are talking about things long before they happen.
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Dec 2, 2013 19:50
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Anyways, BC got a few 'teasers' for upcoming episodes of Arrow coming from the source that told them the YJ story: “Born on a Monday…” Someone else survived the island. Amanda makes an offer. A better use for that clocktower. What is the question you should have asked? Ollie is not the first vigilante. Not all hoods are green. A blank expression. “Archer” “Rise” The hood one is really interesting for me since I can delude myself with a possible Jason Todd (Red Hood)introduction 
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Dec 2, 2013 19:55
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Aphrodite posted:Uh, you haven't been following the news have you? No they can't. They already had to sort of sue themselves over Mutant X. Fox holds the rights to all live action X-Men, big or small screen.
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Dec 2, 2013 20:07
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:That's kind of a bad example actually. Sara doesn't exist on the comics and such she was a OG character that nobody really cared about (and I seem to remember that a lot of people was upset during season 1 for her fridging, calling it cheap writing or something similar) the speculation runned rampant about Laurel since in the comics she's Black Canary and GA's girlfriend. I'm big on the last bit there, since as you said, the writers seem to love taking expectations and sending them spinning. It's why pretty much every episode has a few reaction posts that are nothing but  .And while we're airing personal preference about spoilers, the vast majority of them I don't mind. Telling me that Dumbledore dies doesn't really spoil it as much as makes me wonder how the hell he dies. Snape shoots him? Well, why? The 'how' of a character's development isn't ruined by saying Slade eventually becomes Deathstroke. Sure, he's pretty cold and ruthless right now, but what makes him go from someone who's a (presumably) loyal ASAS operative to cold blooded mercenary? Laurel becomes Canary? How the hell is Laurel of all people supposed to hold a candle to someone trained by the League of Assassins and capable of fighting on Oliver's level (and maybe even a bit better sometimes)? Spoilers are really only effective when the surprise of the reveal is what makes the reveal work. For example, Sara as Black Canary. Sure, we all speculated it, but it was still a hell of a moment when she pulled off the mask, left Oliver speechless, then pulled the same disappearing act exit on Oliver that he pulls on everyone else. I know I was going nuts in my seat. Or the Barrowman as the Dark Archer reveal. Year's End is still one of my favorite episodes, and Barrowman ripping off his hood with an exhilarated smile on his face is going to stick with me, and certainly caused me to flip. I believe at the time we were expecting Tommy to be pushed into the role somehow. For a non-TV example, Bioshock Infinite's ending would have had less impact if I'd known what was coming. The fact that I managed to keep my head in the sand about it for a year is a bit of a miracle, but there you go. I suppose it is somewhat subjective, but the fact that so many people hinge their enjoyment of something on having no prior knowledge of ANYTHING is a bit strange to me. Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Someone else survived the island. Slade 
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Dec 2, 2013 20:09
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Anyways, BC got a few 'teasers' for upcoming episodes of Arrow coming from the source that told them the YJ story: All I got is Grundy, Vic or Renee, Jason Todd...
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Dec 2, 2013 20:11
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Rhyno posted:No they can't. They already had to sort of sue themselves over Mutant X. Fox holds the rights to all live action X-Men, big or small screen. Mutant X was years ago. Things changed with the Disney purchase.
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Dec 2, 2013 20:15
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Aphrodite posted:Mutant X was years ago. Things changed with the Disney purchase. Not yet they haven't. The same deal still exists. They renegotiated with Sony for the Spider-man cartoon rights, nothing changed with the Fox deal. And even if the deal had changed, if any mention of Mutants or any X-Men did pop up on AoS, Fox would sue immediately.
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Dec 2, 2013 20:17
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Luckily for Marvel the Inhumans are pretty much Mutants without using the term Mutants. It's actually kinda hillarious.
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Dec 2, 2013 20:25
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Dexo posted:Luckily for Marvel the Inhumans are pretty much Mutants without using the term Mutants. It just happens that the Inhumans are getting a huge push in the comics, so expect them to be introduced in a future Marvel movie. I wonder if they will make Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch an Inhuman in Avengers. Also there is no way that they will introduce Jason Todd. That is too much baggage with Batman, and even his name is a Joker refrence.
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Dec 2, 2013 20:28
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bobkatt013 posted:Also there is no way that they will introduce Jason Todd. That is too much baggage with Batman, and even his name is a Joker refrence. That's why I said 'delude myself' ...  Probably they're just alluding to Roy
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Dec 2, 2013 20:35
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Warmachine posted:Slade
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Dec 2, 2013 20:41
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Warmachine posted:I'm big on the last bit there, since as you said, the writers seem to love taking expectations and sending them spinning. It's why pretty much every episode has a few reaction posts that are nothing but I think there are always going to be at least two minds of these things, though, and especially for anything that is an adaptation of something. For every one person who knows that this dude becomes So-and-so later on and wants to speculate as to how that happens, there's someone (like me!) who doesn't know boo about the source material but still thinks speculating about what might happen next is pretty fun. Like, if Arrow was actually a completely original property, that would change how people approach discussing the show but I don't think it'd make it any less fun/interesting/ to watch unfold. And things like "Slade is Deathstroke" would be 100%, no-question or gray area spoiler tagged, because Deathstroke doesn't actually exist as a name in the show universe yet.
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Dec 2, 2013 20:56
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bobkatt013 posted:It just happens that the Inhumans are getting a huge push in the comics, so expect them to be introduced in a future Marvel movie. I wonder if they will make Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch an Inhuman in Avengers. This is Disney's plan. Since they're never getting the X-Men rights back they're just making the Inhumans the new Mutant.
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Dec 2, 2013 21:10
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xeria posted:I get that, but also going "well he becomes Tiddlywinks and she becomes Angerbang and the other guy will eventually be Smorgasbord the Barbarian and how cool will it turn out to be in the show and I wonder when it'll happen" isn't the same thing as discussing it after it actually happens. That's what I think Mr Beens is getting at -- the comic links are cool, and certainly worthy of discussion, but it detracts a little from watching the show as standalone material to have people constantly talking about how awesome it's going to be in some indeterminate future when Billy turns into Arrow's arch-nemesis, Smorgasbord, when Smorgasbord does not actually 'exist' in the show yet. xeria posted:I think there are always going to be at least two minds of these things, though, and especially for anything that is an adaptation of something. For every one person who knows that this dude becomes So-and-so later on and wants to speculate as to how that happens, there's someone (like me!) who doesn't know boo about the source material but still thinks speculating about what might happen next is pretty fun. Like, if Arrow was actually a completely original property, that would change how people approach discussing the show but I don't think it'd make it any less fun/interesting/ Why not just use the fact that the show is based on a long-standing property with a rich mythology steer you towards other things you might enjoy watching/reading instead of getting butthurt about the discussion? If you don't know the source then it's not really spoiling anything for you to find out Slade Wilson (a character you knew nothing about) becomes Deathstroke (another character you know nothing about). But if you stopped to crack open a comic or even watch some DCAU you'd go from "mildly annoyed" to "oh holky gently caress". That's not to imply that comic fandom is required to enjoy the show (it isn't) but its a better alternative to getting aggravated at people for having a spirited discussion about long-established character arcs that are wholly relevant to the show, especially on a show where the showrunners get so much mileage out of subverting expectations people bring in from the comics. We're all excited about this stuff for a reason, and if you enjoy Arrow I'm pretty sure you'd have a good time if you checked it out. Crunk Abortion fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Dec 2, 2013 |
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Dec 2, 2013 21:11
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Crunk Abortion posted:If you don't know the source then it's not really spoiling anything for you to find out Slade Wilson (a character you knew nothing about) becomes Deathstroke (another character you know nothing about). Well you'd know he survives the island. I don't really see why its so hard to use spoilers for that kind of thing so people who don't want to read it won't.
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Dec 2, 2013 21:19
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Uh, at what point in anything I said was I 'mad' about knowing any of that? I don't care to read the comics or watch other shows that might involve the same characters, because those other comics/shows aren't the reason why I'm watching Arrow. It's a fun show, that's just as fun even if you don't come into it already familiar with any source material. Just because I don't do that doesn't make me any less excited for a new episode. (And since you seem to think I personally give a poo poo about spoilers -- I hover over every spoiler tag in any thread I keep up with for any show I watch. Forgive me for, you know, trying to explain Mr Beens' point.)
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Dec 2, 2013 21:20
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Aphrodite posted:It's pretty hard to balance. This show is meant for the comic book fans. The writers clearly intend people to know a lot of those things. Half the impact of a lot of reveals is completely lost if you don't. It's why they haven't hesitated to say outright what's going to happen with Laurel. I don't think this is true at all since I know next to nothing about Green Arrow comics. From what I've gathered from this thread it seems like they are actively trying to subvert the established canon.
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Dec 2, 2013 21:23
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raditts posted:I don't think this is true at all since I know next to nothing about Green Arrow comics. From what I've gathered from this thread it seems like they are actively trying to subvert the established canon. Well that's part of what I was saying. They expect you to know it, but they're not necessarily following it. If you don't know the canon you don't know when they subvert it though.
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Dec 2, 2013 21:25
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Not posting story spoilers is one thing, but Slade Wilson/Deathstroke is an established character. That's who he is and has been for years. It'd be like asking people in a Star Wars prequel thread to spoiler tag the fact that Anakin is going to be Vader later. He already is.
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Dec 2, 2013 21:31
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Yeah, I haven't picked up a DC comic in over a decade but I still have a decent knowledge of their universe just through things like Young Justice, the Batman movies, Teen Titans, etc. And while I've tried to veer away from "event X always makes character Y into Hero Z" spoilers, the creative team at Arrow delights in subverting expectations AND playing with characters who already have a variety of interpretations. Slade himself has been a straight up mook, a deadly assassin, a redemptive antihero, a cackling supervillain - and he's never been a consistent part of any character's rogue gallery. Getting spoiled for things suck, I agree. That's why when I'm writing about Arrow for non-viewers I tend to keep things very vague - "Whoa! A major piece of Batman's mythology is popping up on Arrow this week!" is about as specific as I'll get.
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Dec 2, 2013 21:54
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Narcissus1916 posted:Yeah, I haven't picked up a DC comic in over a decade but I still have a decent knowledge of their universe just through things like Young Justice, the Batman movies, Teen Titans, etc. This is why I also don't understand concerns about "spoilers." The fact that a character or idea pops up from the comics doesn't mean anything with respect to this show, because this show is going to do whatever it wants. The fact that Slade Wilson is Deathstroke and in "Flash #276" he kills and eats a raccoon doesn't mean that any of those things are actually going to be a part of this specific mythos. It may or may not happen, but Arrow doesn't care nearly enough about fidelity with the comics (which is already an absurd proposition, since there are so many iterations) to slavishly depict the same plotlines. It's not Game of Thrones. Whatever thing you may know about the Flash or Black Canary or whatever is irrelevant to how Arrow intends to depict the character.
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Dec 2, 2013 22:27
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Xealot posted:This is why I also don't understand concerns about "spoilers." The fact that a character or idea pops up from the comics doesn't mean anything with respect to this show, because this show is going to do whatever it wants. The fact that Slade Wilson is Deathstroke and in "Flash #276" he kills and eats a raccoon doesn't mean that any of those things are actually going to be a part of this specific mythos. It may or may not happen, but Arrow doesn't care nearly enough about fidelity with the comics (which is already an absurd proposition, since there are so many iterations) to slavishly depict the same plotlines. I think the complaints about spoilers were more about people openly discussing tidbits that were dropped by Amell on his Facebook about the upcoming two parter (I was one of the people doing it, admittedly). Some people like to go into episodes not knowing anything about what's coming.
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Dec 2, 2013 22:36
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Yeah, I'll admit it was dumb posting that without putting a spoiler marker on it.
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Dec 2, 2013 22:42
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Xealot posted:It's not Game of Thrones. Whatever thing you may know about the Flash or Black Canary or whatever is irrelevant to how Arrow intends to depict the character. By that logic, anything from the comics is irrelevant to the discussion of the show, and -- at least to me -- serves no purpose than to clog up the thread with white noise posts. On top of that, those posts -- in theory -- could spoil the general map of the series, regardless of whatever twists that Guggenheim et. al. place on it. So it's either one thing or the other, but either way, this train of thought is probably best kept to the BSS thread.
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Dec 2, 2013 22:43
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It's not up to anyone to decide that other people should be ok with being spoiled. If people want to talk about the show while remaining ignorant of future events they have every right to be allowed that and not to feel like they can't join in the thread. It doesn't matter if you know that Simon goes evil and turns into Thunderblarg in the comics, there's no need to bring it up in the discussion of current episodes because that knowledge doesn't change anything and you're just excluding part of the show's audience. I think the show works just as well whether you've read the comics or not and to be honest, when the people who know say "hehe, well you should be happy to know what I know so you can truly appreciate the show" it kinda comes off as condescending and makes you seem like a bit of a prick.
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Dec 2, 2013 22:45
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If the show doesn't even stick Walking Dead close to the comics, then it's all just speculation.
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Dec 2, 2013 23:14
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Rarity posted:It's not up to anyone to decide that other people should be ok with being spoiled. If people want to talk about the show while remaining ignorant of future events they have every right to be allowed that and not to feel like they can't join in the thread. It doesn't matter if you know that Simon goes evil and turns into Thunderblarg in the comics, there's no need to bring it up in the discussion of current episodes because that knowledge doesn't change anything and you're just excluding part of the show's audience. I think the show works just as well whether you've read the comics or not and to be honest, when the people who know say "hehe, well you should be happy to know what I know so you can truly appreciate the show" it kinda comes off as condescending and makes you seem like a bit of a prick. Going to Backseat mod to say no Backseat Modding. If you feel like something is against the rules then report it.
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Dec 2, 2013 23:23
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Aphrodite posted:If the show doesn't even stick Walking Dead close to the comics, then it's all just speculation. Yeah, this is basically how I see it as well. A lot of - if not all of - the fun of knowing certain things about characters from the comics is that it gives you a point to speculate from that you wouldn't have otherwise. It's not guaranteed knowledge about where that character is going to go, and thus isn't actually spoilers. For all we actually know, Slade isn't going to become Deathstroke, and even if he does he could go in several different directions. He could come back into the Starling plot as an ally or an enemy. Or they could foreshadow it all, and subvert it all by having him die during the Island plot after Sara exits. Posting about Amell's facebook post (which I admit that I did) without spoiler text was a mistake, though.
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Dec 2, 2013 23:33
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Dexo posted:Going to Backseat mod to say no Backseat Modding. If you feel like something is against the rules then report it. Heaven forbid someone wants to discuss appropriate everyone-friendly rules for the tv show thread about the tv show Arrow. Jesus Christ.
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Dec 2, 2013 23:55
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Alright everyone calm down. The comic talk ends full stop right now. If you want to mention anything from the comics at all go to BSS. Pretend the comics never existed here. The exception to this rule are the Deathstroke/Canary issues. Because that is something the producers have discussed in interviews and even on the DVD box set. Slade will become Deathstroke and Laurel will become Black Canary. I'm sorry if you think that's a spoiler but it's not. That is something that anyone paying attention to the show, any press about the show, reading articles on line, or even watching the DVD supplements should already know. It's common knowledge at this point. No more comic book talk at all though. If a character shows up and you recognize the name from the comics but it hasn't been revealed yet it has to go in spoiler tags. This is really even silly to do this because this show follows no comics at all. It has the same characters (sort of) but you're never going to actually get anything but character spoilers from comic people. But I understand some people wanting to find that out as the show reveals it so that's what we'll do from here on out. The BSS TV Thread is here: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3574760 X-O fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Dec 3, 2013 |
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Dec 3, 2013 00:10
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Deadpool posted:Alright everyone calm down. The comic talk ends full stop right now. If you want to mention anything from the comics at all go to BSS. Pretend the comics never existed here. I know you're the boss but banning discussion of the source material is kind of ridiculous. Is discussion of past events banned in the GoT threads? Is comic discussion banned in the AoS thread?
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Dec 3, 2013 00:28
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Rhyno posted:I know you're the boss but banning discussion of the source material is kind of ridiculous. Is discussion of past events banned in the GoT threads? Is comic discussion banned in the AoS thread? Yes.
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Dec 3, 2013 00:33
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I'm not sure we need Moira to die for Oliver to hate Malcolm more than he does now. On the other hand it could be more interesting if the Queen family is somewhat in his debt for bribing the jurors. And Moira being free could be the hook to bring Laurel more into the story, because she should have great motivation to search for the reason why Moira was acquitted. That could lead to her discovering who the Arrow really is.
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Dec 3, 2013 00:36
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Torrannor posted:I'm not sure we need Moira to die for Oliver to hate Malcolm more than he does now. On the other hand it could be more interesting if the Queen family is somewhat in his debt for bribing the jurors. And Moira being free could be the hook to bring Laurel more into the story, because she should have great motivation to search for the reason why Moira was acquitted. That could lead to her discovering who the Arrow really is. It'd be less for motivating Oliver (if even a whiff of 'Malcolm is back,' that boy won't rest until he puts three more arrows in him just to be save) and more for Thea. At the same time, though, I doubt it will be Moira. But just to hedge myself here, if it is Moira, it'll be a Brother Blood/Grundy vengeful kill. I doubt they'll overplay the Merlyn hand so soon, since he is still an outlaw.
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Dec 3, 2013 00:50
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Warmachine posted:I doubt they'll overplay the Merlyn hand so soon, since he is still an outlaw. I don't think he's sticking around for more than the midseason finale. They already have the League stuff that they haven't even used yet, that's looking likely to be the story for the second half. I'm expecting Merlyn to be taken out of the picture again.
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Dec 3, 2013 00:55
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Rhyno posted:I know you're the boss but banning discussion of the source material is kind of ridiculous. Is discussion of past events banned in the GoT threads? Is comic discussion banned in the AoS thread? There's actually a very fine line to spoilers in a show like this that draws from a source material but not very much at all really. And I'm probably less sensitive to it because I don't care about spoilers at all and because I'm familiar with the source material the show draws from. There are a lot of people, like you and I, that know when someone like Ivo pops up what that probably means. There are a lot of people that only know that as some new bad guy and have no further idea of he might do. The way this thread has operated from the beginning was that anything from the comics that had been revealed in the show was fair game. And honestly that's still fine. But really nothing that's happened in the show is from the comics with the exception of characters and their roles. You and I knew who Brother Blood was the minute he popped up on the screen. The other viewers might have thought he was only a minor antagonist for Oliver until the reveal about him. So we have to be mindful of how we talk about things in here with people that have no concept of these characters from other media. Note to non-comic readers. Nothing can really be spoiled for you in this show except character identities it seems. And a lot of those are shifting around. There's not really any full on spoilers that will be coming from comic reading people because this show doesn't actually follow any comics. So keep that in mind. Part of the fun of this show though is knowing who some of these character will become. And the writers do expect you to pick up on some of that. Like Roy Harper and Slade and Laurel. There's enough context clues within the show itself to know where those characters will end up at eventually even if you know nothing about comics. Same with the character that's showing up this week. X-O fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Dec 3, 2013 |
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Dec 3, 2013 00:57
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And the guy who's coming in the episode next week is already completely different than his namesake. And yet there's still room to hit 90% of the character. If you can guess which way the writers are going with someone, you're probably psychic. But not a mutant, that's the other guys.
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Dec 3, 2013 01:12
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When in doubt,
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Dec 3, 2013 01:36
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This show's really weird about spoilers in general just due to the fact that every comic book character has a dozen different identities/histories/origins/personalities to draw from. I've managed to avoid getting spoiled on anything to do with GoT by avoiding every place on the internet that might even accidentally spoil me, but I constantly google characters from this show to see what their deal in the comics is because I'm curious. Maybe part of it is that the show isn't exactly subtle about its characters' roles in the grand scheme of things, so there isn't really much to spoil other than the details. Like it was pretty obvious during season 1 that Felicity would join the team, it's obvious Roy is somehow going to get more involved as well, it was obvious from the moment that he showed up that Brother Blood was probably up to no good, etc. With that said though I'm all for an end to just straight comic book chat. As someone who doesn't know anything about the comic books other than a bunch of character names and the general kind of info any nerd has picked up through the years, there were pages of this thread that I just breezed over because it was nothing but talk of how people think one character will end up and hoping that he's more like Version 4123 from Comic Book Run #A442 than some other version from some other universe.
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Dec 3, 2013 01:37
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VDay posted:This show's really weird about spoilers in general just due to the fact that every comic book character has a dozen different identities/histories/origins/personalities to draw from. I've managed to avoid getting spoiled on anything to do with GoT by avoiding every place on the internet that might even accidentally spoil me, but I constantly google characters from this show to see what their deal in the comics is because I'm curious. Maybe part of it is that the show isn't exactly subtle about its characters' roles in the grand scheme of things, so there isn't really much to spoil other than the details. Like it was pretty obvious during season 1 that Felicity would join the team, it's obvious Roy is somehow going to get more involved as well, it was obvious from the moment that he showed up that Brother Blood was probably up to no good, etc. Hillarious enough Felicity is pretty much a name they pulled only as a reference because she does computer stuff. And she wasn't a given to join. IIRC they promoted her because fan response to her was high. Her joining the team was in no way a given.
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Dec 3, 2013 01:45
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