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Season 2 of DS9 has a fantastic shoutback to TOS with Blood Oath.
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Dec 3, 2013 22:53
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Tony Montana posted:Also wasn't there a TNG directive that everyone had to be chill in the inner circle and crew? The conflict had to come from outside this time? I think I heard that and if it was Gene or one of those old-school dudes pushing it for originality, like in the bible saying 'no Vulcan poo poo' - kudos to them. No, no kudos to them. I like TNG a lot, but not as much as TOS or DS9 because the cast has zero conflict. On their own, the characters can be interesting, but they just don't have interesting relationships with each other. Picard\Beverly and Riker\Troi had a little sexual tension, and Geordi and Data would hang out a lot, but that's the gist of it. In DS9 Miles and Julian were best bros, Julian has this weird relationship with Garak, Odo and Quark were best frenemies, Worf married Dax as she was a Klingon weeaboo, Sisko was a family man as was really close to Jake (really the only onscreen captain with a family life), the Quark\Rom\Nog family dynamic was interesting, Jake and Nog were good friends who clashed at times, Odo had secret feelings for Kira for years, Dax was a mentor of sorts to Sisko... and so on. Phy posted:That was the exact episode where he macks on a hologram. And they later on, he meets the real Dr. Leah Brahms and she's like WHAT THE gently caress?!
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Dec 3, 2013 22:57
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And then he yells at her for being mad that he had created an incredibly hostile work environment.
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Dec 3, 2013 22:59
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Whoa whoa, I stopped reading hastily in your summary of a series of DS9 major plot points.. Anyways, I don't disagree with that. You're misunderstanding me. The kudos is just for trying something new, going into new IP with an attitude of 'ok, that worked last time but what else can we do here?'. If JJTrek is all callbacks and fan-service, it's that attitude that is missing. It takes effort to try something, and persist in trying to make it work when it's obviously not as magic as the last iteration.
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Dec 3, 2013 23:02
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What character do you people think improved most over the course of their series? I would vote Nog because he was initially a pretty bad/two dimensional character in the early seasons of Ds9 but by the end became one of my favorite characters in all of Star Trek because of how complicated and interesting he became.
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Dec 3, 2013 23:17
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LeafyOrb posted:What character do you people think improved most over the course of their series? The one where he convalesces with holo-Sinatra is legit one of my favorite episodes. I'd say Nog "improves" the most, however Kira's arc probably takes her the furthest, all the way to advising the Cardassians on how to resist Dominion oppression and liberating Cardassia. One of the things I like about Quark is that he doesn't "improve." He does show nobility of a fashion from time to time in his own way, on his own terms. Sometimes he makes compromises and comes by a bit of self-awareness that changes him in subtle ways. But he never loses sight of his Ferengi values just because he's come in contact with "superior" homosapien culture. e: this also makes Quark a great foil/yardstick for Nog (and Rom's) partial integration to "Federation Culture." Owlbear Camus fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Dec 3, 2013 |
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Dec 3, 2013 23:22
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Re: Spock v McCoy and Data v Pulaski The thing of it is, Kira wasn't the right analogue for that kind of relationship on DS9. For DS9 it was Odo v Quark that took up that "diametrically opposed characters" space.
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Dec 3, 2013 23:27
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Otisburg posted:One of the things I like about Quark is that he doesn't "improve." He does show nobility of a fashion from time to time in his own way, on his own terms. Sometimes he makes compromises and comes by a bit of self-awareness that changes him in subtle ways. But he never loses sight of his Ferengi values just because he's come in contact with "superior" homosapien culture. He 'improves' to a small degree; see the episode where he becomes a weapons dealer and ultimately rejects it. But yeah, for the most part he changes and develops his character without following the normal assimilation pathway.
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Dec 4, 2013 00:28
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I've been cherry picking some VOY episodes lately and today I watched The Raven and enjoyed it well enough. I wish they had waited a bit longer to delve into Sevens assimilation, but the scene where she's on the Raven and flashing back with her parents yelling "Run! Hide!" legit gave me goosebumps.
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Dec 4, 2013 00:50
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Gammatron 64 posted:[Dax] was a Klingon weeaboo
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Dec 4, 2013 00:54
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:And then he yells at her for being mad that he had created an incredibly hostile work environment. Then they get married. A thing that happened.
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Dec 4, 2013 00:55
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Sash! posted:Then they get married. wait what I thought that was just in the All Good Things alternate future.
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Dec 4, 2013 01:03
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Wolf 359: "Well a GALAXY class ship can't beat a Borg cube so lets send in the econo fleet to deal with them!" Seriously worst ships ever in that battle.
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Dec 4, 2013 01:07
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rocket_man38 posted:Wolf 359: "Well a GALAXY class ship can't beat a Borg cube so lets send in the econo fleet to deal with them!" After which, a young starship design engineer named John Eaves suddenly awakens and bursts forth from his pile of anime and mid-90's video games shouting NOW YOU NEED ME
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Dec 4, 2013 01:12
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The USS Geo Metro.
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Dec 4, 2013 01:14
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Luigi Thirty posted:The USS Geo Metro. Half that and half Pinto class.
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Dec 4, 2013 01:15
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rocket_man38 posted:Wolf 359: "Well a GALAXY class ship can't beat a Borg cube so lets send in the econo fleet to deal with them!" You see I knew the Borg had one weakness: a pre-set kill limit.
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Dec 4, 2013 01:15
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rocket_man38 posted:Wolf 359: "Well a GALAXY class ship can't beat a Borg cube so lets send in the econo fleet to deal with them!" Send in the Mirandas, Excelsiors, and kitbashes! Although at that time, I'm sure it was just Starfleet weapons being generally ineffective against the Borg. By First Contact they could damage Borg vessels (while still taking pretty heavy losses). Wasn't the Akira designed along with the Defiant to pack a lot of weapons for Borg defense?
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Dec 4, 2013 01:17
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Tighclops posted:After which, a young starship design engineer named John Eaves suddenly awakens and bursts forth from his pile of anime and mid-90's video games shouting NOW YOU NEED ME After receiving brutal criticism from starship captains, John Eaves travelled back in time to the 21st century and settled for a quiet life of designing affordable yet upscale apartments.  And the cycle repeats. All of this has happened before.
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Dec 4, 2013 01:17
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Tighclops posted:After which, a young starship design engineer named John Eaves suddenly awakens and bursts forth from his pile of anime and mid-90's video games shouting NOW YOU NEED ME I think you mean the Sisko decided to design a killing machine. 
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Dec 4, 2013 01:19
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Speaking of Borgs how come they are able to successfully pull off the "they won't attack if they don't percieve us as a threat" schtick in First Contact when they already established the Borg boarders are actively trying to assimilate ship and crew?
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Dec 4, 2013 01:22
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All they needed in First Contact was one Intrepid class ship to kill the cube.
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Dec 4, 2013 01:29
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1st AD posted:wait what I always just assume that future happens anyhow
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Dec 4, 2013 02:13
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Otisburg posted:Speaking of Borgs how come they are able to successfully pull off the "they won't attack if they don't percieve us as a threat" schtick in First Contact when they already established the Borg boarders are actively trying to assimilate ship and crew? The Borg reason for assimilating the crew and ship wasn't to eliminate a threat per se, it was to accrue enough resources to enact their diabolical timefuckery. Once they'd gotten control of the key parts of the ship, and assimilated a critical mass of crew, they didn't need to go after anyone else until the crew began attacking them. To do otherwise would be inefficient. Seriously I understood that when I saw it 17 years ago at age 10, is it really that confusing?
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Dec 4, 2013 02:17
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Sash! posted:I always just assume that future happens anyhow Well, they definitely end up wearing those awesome (?) uniforms in every conceivable future (TNG, DS9, VOY).
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Dec 4, 2013 02:18
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Apollodorus posted:Seriously I understood that when I saw it 17 years ago at age 10, is it really that confusing? I'm bad at cybernetics ok? Sash! posted:I always just assume that future happens anyhow But Troi crashes the D before it can get triple nacelle pimped out, and it's replaced by the E so that's clearly an alternate future from the films. Owlbear Camus fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Dec 4, 2013 |
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Dec 4, 2013 02:21
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Apollodorus posted:Well, they definitely end up wearing those awesome (?) uniforms in every conceivable future (TNG, DS9, VOY). Those uniforms suck and make everyone look super old even when they're not. Tucked in shirts is not the way to go Starfleet.
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Dec 4, 2013 02:22
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Apollodorus posted:Eh, it just can't match the fast-paced intensity of I'm convinced that if Del Toro hadn't dropped out, they wouldn't have been as secretive. As it was, it was kind of a fun reveal from someone that didn't know ahead of time. And I find it odd, but Cumberbatch vaguely resembles Montalbon from Space Seed if he'd been kept out of the sunlight for a decade.    EDIT for photos. Great_Gerbil fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Dec 4, 2013 |
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Dec 4, 2013 02:22
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LeafyOrb posted:Those uniforms suck and make everyone look super old even when they're not. Tucked in shirts is not the way to go Starfleet. These ones, right?  They do look comfy.
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Dec 4, 2013 02:26
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Apollodorus posted:The Borg reason for assimilating the crew and ship wasn't to eliminate a threat per se, it was to accrue enough resources to enact their diabolical timefuckery. Once they'd gotten control of the key parts of the ship, and assimilated a critical mass of crew, they didn't need to go after anyone else until the crew began attacking them. To do otherwise would be inefficient. Yeah they first try to take over the ship from engineering. But Data locks out the computer. So they then seize enough of the ship to get access to the deflector and stop because that's all they need (which is how Picard works out that's what they're up to). When the deflector plan doesn't work, they start taking more of the ship again, which is when he heads down to engineering to discover that Data could have ended it all and saved hundreds of lives long ago.
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Dec 4, 2013 02:28
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Apollodorus posted:These ones, right? Yeah the top looks great it's just where the shirt meets the pants that looks awful.
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Dec 4, 2013 02:28
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Apollodorus posted:These ones, right? They're as baggy as Gates' face!
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Dec 4, 2013 02:29
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Vengeance of Pandas posted:I think you mean the Sisko decided to design a killing machine. He really did hate the Borg.
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Dec 4, 2013 02:39
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Apollodorus posted:Seriously I understood that when I saw it 17 years ago at age 10, is it really that confusing? Apollodorus posted:17 years ago GYAHA! (I thought it was released in the 2000s, ok? Instead it's older than The 5th Element!)
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Dec 4, 2013 02:42
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Phy posted:GYAHA! Hell yeah, November 22nd 1996! Also I remember seeing this teaser for The Fifth Element in the theater, right before First Contact: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3Hart3UKEQ First Contact coming out in the fall and The Fifth Element in the spring really helped me get over my parents' divorce. 
Apollodorus fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Dec 4, 2013 |
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Dec 4, 2013 02:57
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Apollodorus posted:
 The mid-late 90's were a truly awesome/terrible time. Edit: I wonder how many of us have dysfunctional parental units? Mental Hospitality fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Dec 4, 2013 |
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Dec 4, 2013 03:11
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So, all of the main actors in Generations are credited normally, except for Shatner. He's listed as "With William Shatner as James T. Kirk." Because just his name isn't enough.
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Dec 4, 2013 03:16
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Gau posted:So, all of the main actors in Generations are credited normally, except for Shatner. He's listed as "With William Shatner as James T. Kirk." Because just his name isn't enough. There's a very complex protocol and hierarchy with regards to the form of credits in Hollywood. A 'with/as' is genuinely considered a tier above.
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Dec 4, 2013 03:21
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1st AD posted:Reminder that Odo and Data and Spock had more sex than Geordi. Depending on how many Changelings exist in the Great Link, Odo has Kirk magnitude numbers on the board.
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Dec 4, 2013 03:23
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MikeJF posted:There's a very complex protocol and hierarchy with regards to the form of credits in Hollywood. A 'with/as' is genuinely considered a tier above. Yeah, a minor character in Insurrection got that - there was a joke in the Frakes/Sirtis commentary about how he must have the best agent in Hollywood seeing as he was a no-name playing a guy with like 6 lines.
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Dec 4, 2013 03:26
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