|
Wingless posted:It's really written in such a way as to punish you, the player of the computer game, for playing an evil character. It is the bad-wrong way to play the computer game and the devs punish you. They make token efforts here and there but generally the only way to be an evil character is to be petty and really loud about how evil you are and the game hates you for it. There's really no way to play, say, a cruel, calculating evil guy, or a CHARNAME Irenicus sort; ambitious and capable, with class and dignity. You can go around sneering at people and demanding petty sums of money and generally acting like a member of some local gang, that's about it. I find it amazing that developers frequently realise that an NPC doing something in a cool way is great, but don't realise that the player might enjoy doing something similar themselves. Like in Mass Effect, Adepts get to use their powers in awesome ways during cutscenes, but the player never can, even if he's twice the space-wizard the NPC is. I gave up on my evil run in under an hour. Not only is the only evil path the HEY LOOK HOW EVIL I AM EVIL EVIL EVIL dialogue, but almost all of the NPCs you deliver the evil lines to respond exactly the same as if you'd picked the "good" answer. The only real differences I found were Jaheira being an even bigger bitch to me than normal and an irritating nonstop onslaught of guards randomly attacking me any time I moved. Lost interest pretty quickly.
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2013 16:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 07:39 |
|
|
Rolling Scissors posted:When Neera turned the Shadow Dragon to stone with a wild surge all was forgiven. JustJeff88 posted:Some might say "well, change the slider down when you want to scribe a spell/level up", but I think that they prepared for that, because I would still get random hit points at leveling up if I turned down the difficulty slider after getting the little + sign in the character portrait. I guess that the game calculates HP gains before you hit level up, and that screen is just reporting it to you.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2013 17:12
|
|
|
This is why God gave us the BG2 TweakPack. The Maximum HP tweak is mandatory.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2013 17:16
|
|
|
JustJeff88 posted:I don't remember the original BG1 well enough to say, but I played through BG1EE recently (before that last great patch, ironically - had a few quests that didn't go off) and I was kind of irked with the difficulty level selection. The 2nd-lowest level had the "quality of life" improvements that I wanted, where every character got max HP per level and spells scribe with 0% of failure, but enemies also do reduced damage, which I did not want. The next step up gives full damage, but it removes those aforementioned aspects that make 2nd edition so irritating. Some might say "well, change the slider down when you want to scribe a spell/level up", but I think that they prepared for that, because I would still get random hit points at leveling up if I turned down the difficulty slider after getting the little + sign in the character portrait. I guess that the game calculates HP gains before you hit level up, and that screen is just reporting it to you. Yeah I'm the exact same. Playing BG2EE at the moment, and I hate hate hate the scroll writing randomisation, so I always drop the difficulty when doing that (I stored up a million of them for Imoen and wrote them all at once), but I'm not bothered doing it every time I level someone up. So...my 18 constitution Sorcerer PC has the least HP in the party and dies to a single Horrid Wilting every time Irenicus cast it. Running to the corner of the room while everyone else fights is not exactly high fantasy drama but fine, whatever. What's that, +2 HP this level up? Yay....
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2013 22:13
|
|
|
Wingless posted:Yeah I'm the exact same. Playing BG2EE at the moment, and I hate hate hate the scroll writing randomisation, so I always drop the difficulty when doing that (I stored up a million of them for Imoen and wrote them all at once), but I'm not bothered doing it every time I level someone up. So...my 18 constitution Sorcerer PC has the least HP in the party and dies to a single Horrid Wilting every time Irenicus cast it. Running to the corner of the room while everyone else fights is not exactly high fantasy drama but fine, whatever. What's that, +2 HP this level up? Yay.... You get set HP per level every level past 10 as a Sorcerer (and non-warriors don't get any benefit from Con above 16). Emong fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Dec 4, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2013 22:17
|
|
|
Hey, so with EEkeeper, does giving a kit to a multiclass work properly?
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2013 22:23
|
|
|
In bg2 you get the same amount of hit points every level up after like level 9 i think it is so it's not a big deal anyways. Once you hit 9 you stop rolling for hps and just get a set amount every level up.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2013 22:32
|
|
|
Wingless posted:What's that, +2 HP this level up? Yay.... For BG2 you would actually get +1 per level since you'll probably be level 10+ .... Emong posted:You get set HP per level every level past 10 as a Sorcerer (and non-warriors don't get any benefit from Con above 16). I believe it is a set amount for every class after level 10 isn't it? Fighter types get +3 Druids, clerics, and thieves get +2 and spellcasters get +1 flowinprose fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Dec 4, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2013 22:32
|
|
|
flowinprose posted:I believe it is a set amount for every class after level 10 isn't it? Yep, but it's only after 10 for Mages, Sorcerers, Thieves, and Bards. Everyone else only gets 9 levels before they get static gains. They also get much higher hit die than those four so it doesn't really matter.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2013 22:38
|
|
|
Wingless posted:Yeah I'm the exact same. Playing BG2EE at the moment, and I hate hate hate the scroll writing randomisation, so I always drop the difficulty when doing that (I stored up a million of them for Imoen and wrote them all at once), but I'm not bothered doing it every time I level someone up. So...my 18 constitution Sorcerer PC has the least HP in the party and dies to a single Horrid Wilting every time Irenicus cast it. Running to the corner of the room while everyone else fights is not exactly high fantasy drama but fine, whatever. What's that, +2 HP this level up? Yay.... Seriously just use the Tweakpack. You can pick and choose only the mods you want and there's a TON of quality of life changes in there. I set max hp on levelup and no spell memorization failures ASAP and never looked back. There's a lot of other just-not-fun things you can change with it too.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2013 22:50
|
|
|
MrTheDevious posted:Seriously just use the Tweakpack. You can pick and choose only the mods you want and there's a TON of quality of life changes in there. I set max hp on levelup and no spell memorization failures ASAP and never looked back. There's a lot of other just-not-fun things you can change with it too. Did they make anything out there for BG1 and/or 2 to make druids better or maybe add some bard songs? Druids in the Icewind Dale games are beasts, but there's a fixpack that gives them even more spell options. Jaheira is vicious in BG2, but it's the combination of a few druid spells and her warrior skills that do it. Pure-class druids in BG properly get it in the shorts. Making them more casterish with a good amount of pure attack spells with a nature theme (lightning bolt, etc) would be a real boon.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2013 23:10
|
|
|
MrTheDevious posted:I gave up on my evil run in under an hour. Not only is the only evil path the HEY LOOK HOW EVIL I AM EVIL EVIL EVIL dialogue, but almost all of the NPCs you deliver the evil lines to respond exactly the same as if you'd picked the "good" answer. The only real differences I found were Jaheira being an even bigger bitch to me than normal and an irritating nonstop onslaught of guards randomly attacking me any time I moved. Lost interest pretty quickly. I found a somewhat roughshod way of making it work by whipping up a short and dirty bio for my character which basically underlined how he was a secret, narcissistic psychopath checking the libraries when Gorion wasn't looking. While being obsessed with unlocking whatever it was he felt was inside him, it was pretty obvious that he needed to develop a well honed penchant for lying out of his arse, lying all the way to godhood until thate fateful day when the mask slips and you throw your sister into the 9th plane of hell to be tortured forever while you seize the mantle of godhood. Any intelligent, power hungry 'evil' character in dnd will have an eye on his reputation, since being known as some thug crimelord who casts magic missile at babies every chance he gets is a pretty quick way to be killed, or at the very least hated by everyone who could help you get to where you want to be.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2013 23:13
|
|
|
JustJeff88 posted:Did they make anything out there for BG1 and/or 2 to make druids better or maybe add some bard songs? Druids in the Icewind Dale games are beasts, but there's a fixpack that gives them even more spell options. Jaheira is vicious in BG2, but it's the combination of a few druid spells and her warrior skills that do it. Pure-class druids in BG properly get it in the shorts. Making them more casterish with a good amount of pure attack spells with a nature theme (lightning bolt, etc) would be a real boon. There's this thing, but I have no clue whether it actually helps or not since I've never had a druid in the party either way: Alter Druid Spell and Level Progression Tables This component is actually the combination and streamlining of three different components: P&P Spell Progression Tables;, Un-Nerfed THAC0 Table, Saving Throws, Grand-Mastery, and Arcane, Divine Spell Progression; and Druids Use Cleric Level and Spell Progression. These are now combined and made more granular so that the player can select exactly which level and spell progression tables they wish to use. A comparison of the spell progression tables is available.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2013 23:17
|
|
|
Those don't affect spell selection, only high-level spell progression - there's a cap on the number of slots you can gain in the epic levels and the un-nerfed tables remove it. You're so powerful in ToB that it hardly even matters, though. The only thing the tweakpack offers in terms of druid balance is a hotfix of the shapeshifter's werewolf forms, but I don't know if Overhaul already fixed that code. The closest thing you'll get is the Avenger kit, which gives you a smattering of offensive arcane spells including chain lightning. You shouldn't really play a druid for direct damage, though. Mages are for direct damage. Clerics are for healing and buffs. Druids are for summoning elementals and mountain bears to tear poo poo up.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2013 00:16
|
|
|
Basic Chunnel posted:Druids are for summoning ravenous insects that grind all spellcasting to a screeching halt with their incessant biting. FTFY Although I guess Iron skins are nice.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2013 00:18
|
|
|
This is the Druid experience distilled. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1GadTfGFvU
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2013 00:23
|
|
|
maev posted:Any intelligent, power hungry 'evil' character in dnd will have an eye on his reputation, since being known as some thug crimelord who casts magic missile at babies every chance he gets is a pretty quick way to be killed, or at the very least hated by everyone who could help you get to where you want to be. That's one of the things I liked about Planescape: Torment. You can give replies along the lines of "(Lie) I too love justice" to NPCs in order to manipulate them.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2013 00:25
|
|
|
Baldur's Gate is basically a Heroes Story and any evidence to the contrary is Bioware throwing a bone at best. You could argue they should have just restricted the PC from being Evil and call it a day but they decided to go the route of letting the player figure out what was patently obvious and ignore it if they wanted.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2013 00:28
|
|
|
Captain Oblivious posted:Baldur's Gate is basically a Heroes Story and any evidence to the contrary is Bioware throwing a bone at best. That game would have been 10 times worse if you couldn't murder drizzt and steal his shoes.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2013 01:14
|
|
|
Basic Chunnel posted:There are two things about BG1 that you have to know about party composition. I couldn't bring myself (playing a good character) to murder party members and then dump their corpses into a ditch. Luckily in the BG1EE edition at least, you can take the unwanted member on a solo mission inside a building then remove them there without issue. That has let me keep Minsc without having Dynaheir, as long as I never go into that building again.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2013 02:08
|
|
|
kingcom posted:That game would have been 10 times worse if you couldn't murder drizzt and steal his shoes. I like that one book in IWD2 which is titled: "Face it, you're basically neutral evil" because it's so damned true. Even playing with a good party I still find myself doing occasionally questionable things just for the sake of some xp and loot. How many players out there truly roleplay a good party to the fullest extent? I know I'm not one of them. I'll do poo poo like do the Renal Bloodscalp quest line which requires you to flat out murder a cowled wizard and other things like the drow fighting pits just for the sake of the xp and loot. One of these days I should try fully roleplaying a good party I guess.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2013 02:36
|
|
|
Sword Coast Strategies has a component that allows you to split up the NPC pairs. You still have to complete their quests or they'll go away for ever, {this is mostly an issue for Jaheira and Khalid, and probably Xzar and Montaron) but once you can safely kick them out of your party just speak to the one you want and you get an option for only them to join you. SCS also has a component that allows you to send NPC's to a particular inn. Even if you don't want to install the AI tweaks, there's a lot of good stuff in SCS.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2013 02:40
|
|
|
Vigilance posted:I like that one book in IWD2 which is titled: "Face it, you're basically neutral evil" because it's so damned true. Even playing with a good party I still find myself doing occasionally questionable things just for the sake of some xp and loot. How many players out there truly roleplay a good party to the fullest extent? I know I'm not one of them. I'll do poo poo like do the Renal Bloodscalp quest line which requires you to flat out murder a cowled wizard and other things like the drow fighting pits just for the sake of the xp and loot. Even a Chaotic Good protagonist can rationalize the Renal Bloodscalp quest pretty easily. You pretty much gently caress over nobody but evil dickheads over the course of that quest and it's all for getting a buddy off the mob's hit list. The alternative, eradicating organized crime, isn't too practical.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2013 02:44
|
|
|
DA:O did a much better job with the evil options. I remember being able to backhand this one chick in the face who was whining about saving her possessed demon baby. Then I stabbed the baby. BG1 (and BG2 to an extent) being evil was basically 'how to lock yourself out of content 101' since you could poo poo all over people and miss out on quests and XP.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2013 02:57
|
|
|
The obvious solution to the problem is to decouple experience from killing poo poo and offer multiple quest resolutions. That's what they're doing with Project Eternity, and it's a good policy imo
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2013 03:06
|
|
|
I started playing Icewind Dale 2 and holy poo poo this is a lot of game. I'm on chapter 2 in the ice castle and I've been playing for maybe 20 hours only to discover that I'm not even half way through the game yet. My party is pretty boss though. Fighter/Barbarian Shield Dwarf, Cleric of Tempus Shield Dwarf, Cleric of Selune Aasimar, Rogue/Wizard Dark Elf, Conjurer Tiefling, Enchanter Human. It takes a while to level up, but my stats are insane for the most part and a lot of fights become trivial after summoning 3-4 monsters/taking control of enemies/sniping from stealth/rampaging with a barbarian that has somewhere around 150 health. The only thing I'm regretting is going wizard with my Dark Elf, but he's doing fine as a sniper and he's the only one who can cast evocation spells, so eventually he'll be throwing fireballs and lightning bolts all over the place.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2013 03:59
|
|
|
Dirty Job posted:I started playing Icewind Dale 2 and holy poo poo this is a lot of game. I'm on chapter 2 in the ice castle and I've been playing for maybe 20 hours only to discover that I'm not even half way through the game yet. Your lack of druid and/or bard pains me. Those 2 classes are so good in the IWD games, and after their stunning mediocrity (vanilla) in Baldur's Gate, they well deserved it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2013 07:06
|
|
|
Drow and other +ECL races can be nice to have in your party in IWD2 simply because IWD2 calculates XP gains for your party based on your total party level and it uses actual character level not effective character level. What that means is a party with a Drow in it will gain more xp than a party without one as the Drow party will have a lower party level than the other one. What that can mean is your non ECL characters can level pretty fast thanks to the increased xp gain. I suppose it may balance out at some point and I've never sperged enough to know when or if that would be but early on that improved xp gain is nice.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2013 07:50
|
|
|
Nemo2342 posted:I couldn't bring myself (playing a good character) to murder party members and then dump their corpses into a ditch. Luckily in the BG1EE edition at least, you can take the unwanted member on a solo mission inside a building then remove them there without issue. That has let me keep Minsc without having Dynaheir, as long as I never go into that building again. Except for the miniature giant space hamster, isn't Coran better than Minsc if you're going to use them as archers? As for sacrificing party members, that's why I played as chaotic good and had to lead Jaheira in a pit full of Gnolls for the  greater good
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2013 07:55
|
|
|
Dirty Job posted:I started playing Icewind Dale 2 and holy poo poo this is a lot of game. I'm on chapter 2 in the ice castle and I've been playing for maybe 20 hours only to discover that I'm not even half way through the game yet. Haha, that pretty much mirrors my experience exactly. I just finished the Ice Fortress and glanced at a walkthrough table of contents basically and saw that there's like 700 areas after this. This game is pretty insane, I love how almost every fight is vs like 10+ enemies and a lot are way more than that. I mean, at the end of the Goblin Fortress thing I'm pretty sure there were like 30 enemies onscreen at once. And yeah, it's nice how every class is useful. I wouldn't be caught dead using them in BG2 but things like single class Cleric/Druid/Rogue are actually good in this game. Though my Rogue actually started out with one level in Fighter(mainly to get all the martial weapon feats for free).
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2013 08:11
|
|
|
uh h
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2013 10:30
|
|
|
I think there is some extra content for evil characters, as my Chaotic Evil try is having my dreams run along the lines of "Wow look at all this murder power I was born to grab" and "gently caress you Mulahey, I'm killing you twice".
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2013 10:47
|
|
|
Dorn gives you some cool evil stuff to do if you play the new enhanced editions.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2013 12:17
|
|
|
I've discovered that not only is Mazzy, who I have never used over at least 6-7 playthroughs in the last decade, a Great Character, but that a party with her, Keldorn, Jaheira, Jan, and Neera has amazing banter. I've since traded Jan for Imoen, and I'm really missing his banter. But...I didn't want to have him stranded in the Asylum. I might pick him back up when I get back to the surface...I know Imoen is my sister and all, but she is really very bland. VVVVVV I have a love/hate relationship with Dragon's Eye. I think it is a wonderfully designed area, but not being able to rest makes it quite a challenge which can become frustrating on higher difficulty levels. That said, it really makes you think about conserving your resources, rather going with the "2 hour workday" method. I'm already planning another IWD playthrough when I'm done with BG2. Devorum fucked around with this message at 12:56 on Dec 5, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2013 12:20
|
|
|
Just wanted to say, last night I finished going through Dragon's Eye in IWD. People who complain about Dragon Age's Deep Roads being a drag don't know what they're talking about. I try to rest as little as possible but not being able to rest at all in the last two levels, now that was something else. PS: It was great, don't get me wrong.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2013 12:48
|
|
|
Shadeoses posted:I think there is some extra content for evil characters, as my Chaotic Evil try is having my dreams run along the lines of "Wow look at all this murder power I was born to grab" and "gently caress you Mulahey, I'm killing you twice". Nope. Everyone gets those.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2013 14:02
|
|
|
Devorum posted:I've discovered that not only is Mazzy, who I have never used over at least 6-7 playthroughs in the last decade, a Great Character, but that a party with her, Keldorn, Jaheira, Jan, and Neera has amazing banter. I've since traded Jan for Imoen, and I'm really missing his banter. But...I didn't want to have him stranded in the Asylum. I might pick him back up when I get back to the surface...I know Imoen is my sister and all, but she is really very bland. Imoen was originally supposed to die in Spellhold so she has literally zero banters in SoA. Also Mazzy trivia; she's voiced by Jennifer Hale!
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2013 14:26
|
|
|
The dreams change slightly depending on your reputation. Like, dreams for a Good person will let Mulahey live, he'll thank you and walk into the light. Evil people stab him until he's dead again.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2013 14:28
|
|
|
There wasn't a knife for Mulahey, I just choked his ghost to death. He seemed relieved. I'm not sure if it was alignment or reputation, but north of the Gnoll Stronghold, the paladin who normally helps you fight gibberlings instead just said something along the lines of "I detect a foul rogue in your group, I smite thee for Helm" and attacked.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2013 15:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 07:39 |
|
|
It was reputation. Nothing checks for your alignment in BG1 except the paladin in the tavern in Baldur's Gate.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2013 15:08
|
|
