|
Who says their concrete has rebar in it? Who says it's not held together with magic? Maybe it's not even concrete. This is a game where "dudes invent machines which run on magic" is one of the most important things in the game, and the Empire are the guys who can do it.
Defiance Industries fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Dec 8, 2013 |
#
?
Dec 8, 2013 23:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 06:51 |
|
|
BioMe posted:Which is kind of confusing when the opening crawl talks about a technological progress taking over for centuries and it doesn't really make an intuitive sense how discovering magic translates to inventing rebar. You're making assumptions here when it doesn't pan out. They're literally using magic to replicate (and advance) technological progress. We don't know the specifics because bogging down the story with the how is less important than the why. We know they use magic to power machines and create things and that is all we really need to know for the story to work. It is certainly unrealistic but when the founding premise of the unrealistic aspect is that they are using magic, that's kind of inevitable. It is done within an extremely short timeframe because it is a fantasy story where the central premise is that one nation suddenly has power well above the rest of the world and is using it for conquest.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2013 23:15
|
|
|
If you can't see how having unlimited magical power could possibly speed up societal progress you're putting your imagination into question.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2013 23:18
|
|
|
Dragonatrix posted:These two aren't doable yet. They both need to be on disc 3 or 4. Doomtrain needs Alexander to make at the earliest, who's only available in the last boss of Disc 2 or one in Ultimecia's Castle, and the ring's near Esther which you don't go to until disc 3. Cactuar Island isn't reachable without the Ragnarok. If you run along the coast of the desert next to Cactaur Island, the game thinks you're on the island.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2013 23:26
|
|
|
Mr. Maltose posted:If you can't see how having unlimited magical power could possibly speed up societal progress you're putting your imagination into question. Defiance Industries posted:Who says their concrete has rebar in it? Yeah, I think we've reached maximum pedantry now and should just drop this subject. Good night.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2013 23:28
|
|
|
Hold on let me get out my FINAL FANTASY 6 OFFICIAL TECHNICAL MANUAL and it will explain how many kilopulses of magic it takes to make a MagiTek armor go. The Empire has magic machines. Machines that are literally magic. Considering the game runs into space limitations on text already, would it really benefit from Locke and Celes stopping off during the MagiTek factory to take the tour on how their building materials are made (with magic)?
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2013 23:30
|
|
|
Defiance Industries posted:Hold on let me get out my FINAL FANTASY 6 OFFICIAL TECHNICAL MANUAL and it will explain how many kilopulses of magic it takes to make a MagiTek armor go. Yeah sure that's what I meant I am the sperg.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2013 23:34
|
|
|
BioMe posted:The part I was questioning is how you come up with several industrial inventions from it and build an entire city to manufacture them without the rest of the world picking up on it. And yes I bloody know you can come up with explanations for it, but FF6 didn't. And didn't need to have heavy exposition about it either, show-don't-tell and all. The rest of the world does pick up on it because they're being ground under the boot of the aggressive military Empire. Everyone knows the Empire has magical bullshit technology and it's constantly brought up that they have an edge no other nation can match. This is a thing that happens in the actual real world, where large nations leverage the fact that they are bigger than other nations to step up technologically. The Empire is sitting on the only pile of fantasy Plutonium, and the first part of FF6 is getting a team together to steal the secrets of nuclear power.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2013 23:37
|
|
|
BioMe posted:The part I was questioning is how you come up with several industrial inventions from it and build an entire city to manufacture them without the rest of the world picking up on it. And yes I bloody know you can come up with explanations for it, but FF6 didn't. And didn't need to have heavy exposition about it either, show-don't-tell and all. Because the rest of the world doesn't have Espers! Even if they did pick up on it, how do they plan to power it? FF6 did explain it! It's the central premise of the plot. "The Empire has Espers, nobody else does." Terra and the soldiers are sent to Narshe because Narshe found an Esper frozen crystal. Locke goes after Terra because she can use magic and communicate with Espers. Banon's entire plot is to get Terra to talk to the Espers so they can also have Esper power. You are constantly ignoring this one, central, basic premise of the plot: The Empire has Espers and nobody else does. The entire game is a struggle over getting access to magical power. This isn't ignored by the game. The protagonist group's central premise is that they are seeking a way to match the Empire's power. They literally have the Espers locked up in a facility and are draining magic from them. Nobody else in the world has access to Espers to do that even if they were willing to. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Dec 8, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2013 23:38
|
|
|
All that and reiterating again that the rest of the world isn't completely primitive in the way that the Shire is or something. Figaro Castle is a mechanical wonder with the ability to submerge into the earth and move around down there, the thing that's weird about the Phantom Train is that it's full of ghosts and not that it's a locomotive (implying regular trains exist elsewhere in the world), the whole world is full of poo poo like grandfather clocks and full-size pianos that were invented after the Middle Ages, etc. It's pretty obvious that either the whole world is slowly receiving "trickle down" tech from the Empire, or that the world's industrial revolution is universal and the Empire just has an unfair advantage because of Magitek. I have no clue how you missed all the anachronisms everywhere else if you thought it was a fantasy world, even the architecture and the way people are dressed reflects a later historical period than conventional Medieval fantasy. EDIT: regarding the train thing, trains definitely existed elsewhere, because Shadow and his partner were train robbers Baku fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Dec 8, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2013 23:53
|
|
|
Alternate theory: Moogles are responsible for everything.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2013 23:53
|
|
|
Dragonatrix posted:These two aren't doable yet. They both need to be on disc 3 or 4. Doomtrain needs Alexander to make at the earliest, who's only available in the last boss of Disc 2 or one in Ultimecia's Castle, and the ring's near Esther which you don't go to until disc 3. Cactuar Island isn't reachable without the Ragnarok. You don't need to physically be on the island to fight Cactuars.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2013 23:56
|
|
|
Zombies' Downfall posted:the thing that's weird about the Phantom Train is that it's full of ghosts and not that it's a locomotive (implying regular trains exist elsewhere in the world) As far as Doma being considered a major world power when the Empire can destroy it in an afternoon is a question of relative strength. When you have steam power plus melee infantry with some early guns and the other guy has steam power plus samurai with some early guns, from a relative perspective, that's pretty powerful.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 00:04
|
|
|
Ubiquitous_ posted:You don't need to physically be on the island to fight Cactuars. No, but it is the only way to consistently fight Cactuars.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 00:16
|
|
|
Dragonatrix posted:No, but it is the only way to consistently fight Cactuars. You consistently fight cactaurs. The game literally says you are on Cactaur Island.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 00:20
|
|
|
The White Dragon posted:It's not even implied, Cyan outright says something like, "A train! But I thought all of Doma's rail lines were destroyed?" Also it's a fantasy world where "samurai" means you have amazing physical powers, much like how Sabin being a martial artist means he can shoot loving laser beams from his hands.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 00:20
|
|
|
Dragonatrix posted:No, but it is the only way to consistently fight Cactuars. If you get close enough on the mainland, the menu will say you're on Cactuar Island. If you run around on that little stretch that's close enough you'll just get Cactuars.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 00:24
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Also it's a fantasy world where "samurai" means you have amazing physical powers, much like how Sabin being a martial artist means he can shoot loving laser beams from his hands. And suplex a train.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 03:10
|
|
|
FF6 is a story about how we rose to become a power to rival nations thanks to our feral child imitating a cat he saw once and laying waste to war machines. And then a clown man wins because he abused an even bigger exploit than the ones we were abusing. Then we have our revenge using our very own omnislash before Cloud was even a few pencil markings in Tetsuya Nomura's sketchbook. Are we talking about the logical inconsistencies in the balance of power in the world of FF6?
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 04:29
|
|
|
Yeah I'm fighting cactaurs all the time now without being on the island. It's kind of beautiful in a way that the game has so many different ways for you to break it. Mechanically it's tons of fun. Story wise... (To be fair I never beat disc 4 on the PSX version but I've read how 'great' the ending is.)
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 04:33
|
|
|
Ugh, god help me but 13-3 actually looks kinda fun. This talks a bit more about how the time limit and New Game+ and such work: http://kotaku.com/lightning-returns-isnt-revolutionary-but-it-is-a-lot-1477723946 I haven't been interested in playing the 13 series beyond the 13-2 demo, and didn't want to start now. But the real kick in the balls is that apparently the Cloud pre-order bonus equipment is really really good throughout the whole game, which means I might regret waiting for reviews and cheap used copies. I think the real issue here is that I need a new fantasy dress-up simulator after Dark Souls.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 04:36
|
|
|
Scwartz, I know EXACTLY what you mean. I HATE the 13 trilogy, but I still want to preorder 13-3 just for that Cloud outfit with the skills that are apparently REALLY good, because i'm a whore who gets off on damage.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 04:45
|
|
|
FFVI: PS4. Make it happen Square. It can be our sweet, sweet reward for suffering through a generation of FF 13
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 05:46
|
|
|
Captain Mog posted:FFVI: PS4. I think the fact that Square hasn't really revisited FF6 is part of the reason I still like it so much.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 06:03
|
|
|
Defiance Industries posted:I think the fact that Square hasn't really revisited FF6 is part of the reason I still like it so much. Yeah, at this point there's no way a remake could possibly live up to my or any other fan's expectations, anyway. Anything less than 100% perfection would be a disappointment, just because the game deserves to be remade absolutely, 100% perfectly.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 06:19
|
|
|
So I'm playing Final Fantasy III for the NES for the first time. Is there anything about the Job System I should know? I'm in the dungeon where I have to be a frog, for like, a second. I feel like I should be switching jobs more often, I'm rolling with a Red Mage, White Mage, Black Mage, and Monk, because why the hell not. Everyone's HP is about equal, I'm having no problems really, but I don't know if I'm doing this right on accident or what cause this game is way easier than an NES RPG usually is. Like, are any stat gains permanent? Is there any way to really min/max a character, or is there any reason to have them gain levels in different jobs? Is there any real point in having one person be focused on White Magic until the next crystal, or any purpose at all in instead switching between jobs and focusing on multiple stats? From what I gather the only thing that I really should be looking out for is that I don't stick with a low HP-gain class, as that is the only stat taht carries over, but poo poo. There has to be more to this job system than this, I must really have high expactations after 5 and Tactics.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 06:26
|
|
|
I will not accept a full remake of FF6 unless the opera bit is replaced with a pop concert and Kefka is voiced by Hatsune Miku.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 06:31
|
|
|
Majorian posted:Yeah, at this point there's no way a remake could possibly live up to my or any other fan's expectations, anyway. Anything less than 100% perfection would be a disappointment, just because the game deserves to be remade absolutely, 100% perfectly. And it's the 2013 Square-Enix we're talking about. They'll fall so, so far short of good, let alone perfection.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 06:41
|
|
|
Hit or miss Clitoris posted:So I'm playing Final Fantasy III for the NES for the first time. Is there anything about the Job System I should know? I'm in the dungeon where I have to be a frog, for like, a second. I feel like I should be switching jobs more often, I'm rolling with a Red Mage, White Mage, Black Mage, and Monk, because why the hell not. Everyone's HP is about equal, I'm having no problems really, but I don't know if I'm doing this right on accident or what cause this game is way easier than an NES RPG usually is. The only stat gain that is permanent is HP, and it seems like you've got a handle on that. Nothing else carries over, so a character that is exclusively a white mage won't be any better when you switch him to white mage +1. It does pay off to focus characters on a single class, though, for two reasons. One is that the class skill levels increase their effectiveness in combat, the other is that it costs less CP for that character to switch back to that class. There is a big caveat, though, especially if you're more familiar with FF5 and Tactics, and that is that not all classes are created equal. In fact, most later game classes are straight upgrades of earlier ones. Once you get access to knights, there's absolutely no reason to keep a fighter around. Also many classes have very niche uses - some of them are completely useless in one area (usually due to a lack of equipment) but then suddenly become your best class available in the next area. I can tell you that you'll get some good mileage out of the white and black mages, but red mages have an extremely short shelf life. They're pretty much useless once you get your boat. The monk will last a little longer, but fighters get better equipment even before you get your next set of classes.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 06:52
|
|
|
Majorian posted:Yeah, at this point there's no way a remake could possibly live up to my or any other fan's expectations, anyway. Anything less than 100% perfection would be a disappointment, just because the game deserves to be remade absolutely, 100% perfectly. Square probably just doesn't want modern audiences to play through FF6 again since players hold it in high esteem and re-releasing can only harm the game's reputation. The same way players once heralded FF7 as the greatest RPG of all time but now laugh at it as the cross dressing gay rape game.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 07:02
|
|
|
Fister Roboto posted:I can tell you that you'll get some good mileage out of the white and black mages, but red mages have an extremely short shelf life. They're pretty much useless once you get your boat. The monk will last a little longer, but fighters get better equipment even before you get your next set of classes. Yeah by the time you replied I had changed my Monk into a Fighter, and my Red Mage into a Monk. I'm looking forward to later crystals having niche uses, though. That gimmick I liked, but it wasn't explored too much in V. So if I read you right, having a FIghter at skill level 50 wouldn't make a Knight any stronger right off the bat, right? Nothing carries over from one job to another with the strait upgrades? Cause I'm gonig to change jobs every dungeon just to mix it up from now on if so.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 07:04
|
|
|
Fight Club Sandwich posted:Square probably just doesn't want modern audiences to play through FF6 again since players hold it in high esteem and re-releasing can only harm the game's reputation. The same way players once heralded FF7 as the greatest RPG of all time but now laugh at it as the cross dressing gay rape game. Guessing this is sarcasm? Because it seems like the number 1 demand to SE from fans is to remake FF7, to the point where they've had to say "we're not remaking FF7 until we feel we've put out a new game that's just as good as 7 was." Which is a total cop-out comment, but the point is people still love FF7.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 07:07
|
|
|
Fight Club Sandwich posted:Square probably just doesn't want modern audiences to play through FF6 again since players hold it in high esteem and re-releasing can only harm the game's reputation. The same way players once heralded FF7 as the greatest RPG of all time but now laugh at it as the cross dressing gay rape game. I'm pretty sure FFVII is still much beloved. The only people who really hate on it are the "MY Game Isn't As Popular!" crowd who whine about the fact FFVI jor maybe FFIX aren't as big. If anything, the backlash against VII is only a testament to its enduring fandom. The more people go out of their way to bitch about it, the more you can rest assured it's as popular as ever.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 07:12
|
|
|
Hit or miss Clitoris posted:Yeah by the time you replied I had changed my Monk into a Fighter, and my Red Mage into a Monk. I'm looking forward to later crystals having niche uses, though. That gimmick I liked, but it wasn't explored too much in V. Nothing carries over, but the skill levels aren't a big deal. A brand new knight will actually be a lot worse, stat-wise than a skill level 50 fighter (each skill level translates to a point of strength for damage and a point of agility for accuracy), but you'll never see that high a skill level unless you grind excessively. The knight also gets better equipment, which is mainly what determines a class's usefulness.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 07:36
|
|
|
Oh yeah, also in case you didn't already know, every class in the game can dual-wield. All of them. Have fun!
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 07:56
|
|
|
Defiance Industries posted:And it's the 2013 Square-Enix we're talking about. They'll fall so, so far short of good, let alone perfection. I've never played FF6, but I think the Tactics Ogre remake proves that modern Square-Enix, for all it's faults, can occasionally pull its poo poo together for one game.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 18:32
|
|
|
ShadeofDante posted:Yeah I'm fighting cactaurs all the time now without being on the island. It's kind of beautiful in a way that the game has so many different ways for you to break it. Mechanically it's tons of fun. Story wise... The entire highlight of the game plotwise is the confirmed to be not correct theory that Ultimecia is alternate time-line Rhinoa. The final dungeon is awesome though so there's that.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 18:35
|
|
|
What are the chances FF8 for the PC gets a major overhaul by modders?
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 18:42
|
|
|
SheepNameKiller posted:What are the chances FF8 for the PC gets a major overhaul by modders? It originally came out on PC not long after Playstation, so if there's a modding community for it it would have started long before the Steam version.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 18:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 06:51 |
|
|
Dross posted:It originally came out on PC not long after Playstation, so if there's a modding community for it it would have started long before the Steam version. Thanks. I kind of figured as much, was just curious if there was already one in the works or something.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 18:48
|
|