|
I always assumed that since the Emperor is so powerful, he can manipulate his genome and the molecular level and basically craft his body into whatever he drat well pleases. If Chaos can mutate people randomly why shouldn't he be able to do it in a controlled manner to himself? As for Malcador, he's probably just another perpetual who decided the Emperor's plan was correct and chose to follow him. The Emperor is known to have approached other perpetuals so this theory should hold out well enough. I also thought it was well established that the Primarchs are some kind of warp entities that have been bound into a physical form by the Emperor through some arcane process. Either demons he snatched up and purified somehow, or other "spirits" that embody qualities that are separate from the major warp powers. I've always liked to think that the Emperors purpose was to balance the warp out somehow by representing order.
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2013 03:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 19:14 |
|
|
Demiurge4 posted:I always assumed that since the Emperor is so powerful, he can manipulate his genome and the molecular level and basically craft his body into whatever he drat well pleases. If Chaos can mutate people randomly why shouldn't he be able to do it in a controlled manner to himself? I like the interpretation that the warp entities of the primarchs are actually fragments taken from the soul or essence of the Emperor himself and reflect different aspects of his personality.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2013 03:38
|
|
|
Demiurge4 posted:I always assumed that since the Emperor is so powerful, he can manipulate his genome and the molecular level and basically craft his body into whatever he drat well pleases. If Chaos can mutate people randomly why shouldn't he be able to do it in a controlled manner to himself? That said, I can't actually remember which organs grow and which are added surgically, and whether or not it varies from chapter to chapter. Maybe I'll dig out the old Codices tomorrow and check for the silliness.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2013 04:33
|
|
|
I thought they were all implanted surgically, but a lot of them are sort of meta-organs that don't do anything directly except alter tissue development and modulate hormone levels and the like which would be ineffective or dangerous to a fully grown adult. Also it's not just the organs but also other exogenous drugs and compounds that have to be administered at the right times, like specialized mineral compounds that strengthen the skeleton, etc. Essentially the gene-seed is more of a set of symbiotes which maintains its own independent genome, though it may be tailored to the individual in various ways as well during some stage of the culturing/implantation/progenoid formation process, and/or there might also be some level of host genetic modification taking place. Basically the fluff was written before the modern age of genes taking the place of atoms for silly sci-fi handwaving, so if you spin it right it's actually not too ludicrous scientifically speaking. Not that 40k is really even sci-fi at all (arguably it's more like space fantasy) but still. And as seen in Prospero Burns, even 'conventional' medical technology has advanced to the point where they can give your body a complete teardown and rebuild given enough time, upgrading everything to function at peak or beyond normal ability. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Dec 8, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2013 04:39
|
|
|
The Rat posted:Thanks for the recommendation, I will put this on my reading list. Cool. Its a take on the story of Arthur if that informs your opinion. Cream_Filling posted:I thought they were all implanted surgically, but a lot of them are sort of meta-organs that don't do anything directly except alter tissue development and modulate hormone levels and the like which would be ineffective or dangerous to a fully grown adult. Also it's not just the organs but also other exogenous stuff that has to be administered, like specialized mineral compounds that strengthen the skeleton, etc. Essentially the gene-seed is more of a set of symbiotes which maintains its own independent genome, though it may be tailored to the individual in various ways as well during some stage of the culturing or implantation process. eh, given what we have learned about molecular biology since the HGP wrapped up, neither of these can be really right. It isn't just what the DNA says, but also what segments are expressed, how things are transcripted, and how activities change your DNA. There is also the complex role of epigenetics and the proteome. At a minimum, the fact that damaged meta-organs can regrow (eg the black carapace heals if they get a cut) means that the marine's cells can replicate in a way the replaces parts of the meta-organ. But this is us applying real world knowledge to the worldbuilding where this stuff hasn't been mentioned yet.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2013 04:55
|
|
|
Cream_Filling posted:I thought they were all implanted surgically, but a lot of them are sort of meta-organs that don't do anything directly except alter tissue development and modulate hormone levels and the like which would be ineffective or dangerous to a fully grown adult. Also it's not just the organs but also other exogenous drugs and compounds that have to be administered at the right times, like specialized mineral compounds that strengthen the skeleton, etc. Essentially the gene-seed is more of a set of symbiotes which maintains its own independent genome, though it may be tailored to the individual in various ways as well during some stage of the culturing/implantation/progenoid formation process, and/or there might also be some level of host genetic modification taking place. I am totally going to have to dig out one of the 2nd ed codices and have a re-read tomorrow now.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2013 05:01
|
|
|
Demiurge4 posted:As for Malcador, he's probably just another perpetual who decided the Emperor's plan was correct and chose to follow him. The Emperor is known to have approached other perpetuals so this theory should hold out well enough. I also thought it was well established that the Primarchs are some kind of warp entities that have been bound into a physical form by the Emperor through some arcane process. Either demons he snatched up and purified somehow, or other "spirits" that embody qualities that are separate from the major warp powers. I've always liked to think that the Emperors purpose was to balance the warp out somehow by representing order. If he was a Perpetual, that than means the nasty case of death that overcame him after sitting the Golden Throne was really just a temporary thing, with him returning after a while (barring a contrived explanation that sitting the Throne is one of the only things that can kill a perpetual). Personally, I think he was just an alpha-plus psyker that managed to exert enough self-control to avoid becoming a plaything of the Chaos Gods.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2013 05:30
|
|
|
Fried Chicken posted:Cool. Its a take on the story of Arthur if that informs your opinion. Except tissue is different from cells, and also in general most adult cells can't re-specialize and don't relocate that much so if there is cellular regeneration it's most likely coming from some sort of replication of existing cells or else specialized stem cells within the affected organ. And yes I'm aware there's a lot of cases in the body that contradict this, but that doesn't really affect my point. Also, how does a surgically implanted replacement organ having its own unique non-human genome preclude it from self-repair and limited cell regeneration? It's basically a little parasite / symbiote with its own life cycle and everything (progenoids). Basically in this interpretation, astartes are created by receiving organ transplants from the Primarchs (specially cultured and lightly modified). Just like in real life a transplanted liver or lung is capable of repairing itself and generally functioning like normal so long as the host's immune system doesn't reject it. There may be supplemental gene therapies involved as well, since it's the future so whatever (and it's been mentioned occasionally in the books), but I like this pre-genetics-technobabble era explanation because it's refreshing after all the X-Men sorts of technobabble where random mutations can give you laser eyes. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Dec 8, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2013 05:30
|
|
|
Why did i just spend over an hour reading Warhammer High? 
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2013 06:02
|
|
|
UberJumper posted:Why did i just spend over an hour reading Warhammer High? Creeping madness or gradual corruption by Chaos? 
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2013 08:05
|
|
|
Pyrolocutus posted:If he was a Perpetual, that than means the nasty case of death that overcame him after sitting the Golden Throne was really just a temporary thing, with him returning after a while (barring a contrived explanation that sitting the Throne is one of the only things that can kill a perpetual). Personally, I think he was just an alpha-plus psyker that managed to exert enough self-control to avoid becoming a plaything of the Chaos Gods. Well there are many ways to interpret that episode. For one Malcador's body was almost completely destroyed by his ordeal on the throne, what with holding back the entire goddamn warp, and he transferred his power to the Emperor on his death. This could either be he sacrificed his perpetual state for the Emperor's sake or he merged with him and became a part of the Emperor's many personalities that watch over the Imperium now.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2013 14:13
|
|
|
Pyrolocutus posted:If he was a Perpetual, that than means the nasty case of death that overcame him after sitting the Golden Throne was really just a temporary thing, with him returning after a while (barring a contrived explanation that sitting the Throne is one of the only things that can kill a perpetual). Personally, I think he was just an alpha-plus psyker that managed to exert enough self-control to avoid becoming a plaything of the Chaos Gods. Unremembered Empire shows perpetuals can die if they"use up" their psyker power in certain specific acts like a super charged psyker attack on someone. I'd expect that shoving all that power into the throne similarly qualifies
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2013 15:05
|
|
|
Pyrolocutus posted:If he was a Perpetual, that than means the nasty case of death that overcame him after sitting the Golden Throne was really just a temporary thing, with him returning after a while (barring a contrived explanation that sitting the Throne is one of the only things that can kill a perpetual). Personally, I think he was just an alpha-plus psyker that managed to exert enough self-control to avoid becoming a plaything of the Chaos Gods. It's actually a point in some of the Inquisitor game stuff how there's factions in the Inquisition and other such worthies who think that removing the Emperor from the Golden Throne will allow him to reincarnate or otherwise return to lead humanity into final victory, etc. However, the incredible risks involved in such a scheme mean it will never, ever happen and is fiercely opposed by basically all the more conservative factions.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2013 19:29
|
|
|
Personally, I like the idea that removing the Emperor could let him reincarnate or heal but that the time it would take to do so would basically doom the Imperium, and so he chose to be entombed as the Corpse-God to save humanity as best he could.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2013 20:06
|
|
|
UberJumper posted:Why did i just spend over an hour reading Warhammer High? You enjoy terrible, vaguely pedophilic fanfiction?
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2013 22:50
|
|
|
Fan fiction is for nerds *does a cool kick-flip on a skateboard then rides away*
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2013 22:52
|
|
|
I thought he was reading Warhammer while high.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 01:23
|
|
|
Cream_Filling posted:I thought he was reading Warhammer while high. If only.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 04:18
|
|
|
I actually haven't read Unremembered Empire yet, so I haven't heard of that. I guess if a Perpetual can die for reals, sitting the Golden Throne is as good a way to go as any. Cream_Filling posted:It's actually a point in some of the Inquisitor game stuff how there's factions in the Inquisition and other such worthies who think that removing the Emperor from the Golden Throne will allow him to reincarnate or otherwise return to lead humanity into final victory, etc. However, the incredible risks involved in such a scheme mean it will never, ever happen and is fiercely opposed by basically all the more conservative factions. I had heard about that, but I was talking about Malcador in this instance. VanSandman posted:If only. Maybe he's taking after his idol Doomrider 
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 04:29
|
|
|
VanSandman posted:If only. What's a good book featuring Khornate Berzerkers? Figure that'll be when I put my stash of PCP to good use.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 05:32
|
|
|
Lead Psychiatry posted:What's a good book featuring Khornate Berzerkers? Figure that'll be when I put my stash of PCP to good use. I'm not sure there is a book featuring Khornate Berzerkers as significant characters, sadly. I think Cain fights one in one book, and there's Betrayer if you count that... actually, just go ahead and read Betrayer.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 06:08
|
|
|
JerryLee posted:I'm not sure there is a book featuring Khornate Berzerkers as significant characters, sadly. I think Cain fights one in one book, and there's Betrayer if you count that... actually, just go ahead and read Betrayer. Yeah Betrayer is as close as you're going to get. I don't think anyone's ever written what Khornate Berzerkers do in their downtime.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 06:44
|
|
|
VanSandman posted:Yeah Betrayer is as close as you're going to get. I don't think anyone's ever written what Khornate Berzerkers do in their downtime. Well, there is also /tg/'s Kharn fanfiction, much of which I heartily recommend if you're okay with silliness.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 07:05
|
|
|
VanSandman posted:You enjoy terrible, vaguely pedophilic fanfiction? Meet the primarchs was terrible, but its the silly kind of terrible. I don't see what is Are there any decent short stories for the Horus Heresy? There seems to be a fair number of random HH stories that are not part of the antholgies. Are they any good? *EDIT* What the gently caress, there is about a hundred more stories for this stuff. I was only reading a subpage 
UberJumper fucked around with this message at 07:23 on Dec 9, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 07:17
|
|
|
There's a pretty rad sequence in Atlas Infernal where a Relictors techmarine fights a Khornate space marine.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 07:26
|
|
|
"[/spoiler posted:Lead Psychiatry" post="422944346"] That audio book by CZ Dunn, Trials of Azrael, has Kharn doing the Berzerker thing chasing after Azrael. He kills a Black Legion marine, that stormed the Emperor's Palace with him, and his squad just for getting in the way.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 07:46
|
|
|
There's also that Kharn story in Let the Galaxy Burn with the kill counter, but good luck getting your hands on that one.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 07:55
|
|
|
Mechafunkzilla posted:There's also that Kharn story in Let the Galaxy Burn with the kill counter, but good luck getting your hands on that one. Story is called The Wrath of Kharn and is only about 9 pages long, and is of debatable quality.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 08:15
|
|
|
I'm all caught up in the HH books, including Betrayer. I always thought the Berzerkers (IN addition to the Noise and Plague Marines) were popular, so kinda weird to not see them featured in much. Oh well. Also may be a bit confused but I can swear there's one of those 2 page short stores from BL where Kharn does his famous freakout and butchered allies for seeking shelter. But can't find it listed on the site now.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 08:33
|
|
|
UberJumper posted:Story is called The Wrath of Kharn and is only about 9 pages long, and is of debatable quality. Its available on 1d4chan. Lead Psychiatry posted:I'm all caught up in the HH books, including Betrayer. I always thought the Berzerkers (IN addition to the Noise and Plague Marines) were popular, so kinda weird to not see them featured in much. Oh well. Thats bookfluff, I think. Its the story of how Kharn earned his nickname.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 10:51
|
|
|
I was looking for any not poo poo WH40k book in the bookstore yesterday, just to have something to read, and I got ADB's Helsreach. I'm only a third of the way through, but its surprisingly good, and I'm eeally getting in to it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 16:36
|
|
|
Waroduce posted:I was looking for any not poo poo WH40k book in the bookstore yesterday, just to have something to read, and I got ADB's Helsreach. I'm only a third of the way through, but its surprisingly good, and I'm eeally getting in to it. ADB really nailed the idea of a chaplain. I love his portrayal of Grimaldus. The novella that came out on the BL site is also worth getting once you finish Helsreach.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 16:41
|
|
|
ed balls balls man posted:ADB really nailed the idea of a chaplain. I love his portrayal of Grimaldus. The novella that came out on the BL site is also worth getting once you finish Helsreach. Grimaldus is hardcore as poo poo. Graham McNeil also did a really good portrayal of the Black Templars in Priests of Mars, I loved the fight between the initiate and the war Magus.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 16:57
|
|
|
VanSandman posted:Its available on 1d4chan. I looked it up and holy poo poo, that story is hilarious. I could post most of it here, but this part is probably a good example of what I mean. quote:Frantically, the cultist leader bellowed orders, but it was too late. Khârn was in among them, and no man had ever been able to boast of facing Khârn in close combat and living. The numbers 2243, then 2244, blinked before his eyes. The ancient Gothic lettering of the digital death-counter, superimposed on Khârns field of vision, incremented quickly. Khârn was proud of this archaic device, presented by Warmaster Horus himself in ancient times. Its like could not be made in this degenerate age. Khârn grinned proudly as his tally of offerings for this campaign continued to rise. He still had a long way to go to match his personal best but that was not going to stop him trying. Kharn is your typical FPS gamer in the grim darkness of the future. Got to get that K/D ratio up there. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 22:21
|
|
|
Im planning on finishing Helsreach this week, and with the lack of new Heresy book, can anyone give me some recommendations on similarly good but relatively unknown books? I liked helsreach because it was well written, had a unique main character and wasn't just bolter porn. plus the intersped titan and guard stuff was good. Any recommendations? Preferably no central focus on imperial guard stuff, Im like the only person who isn't a fan of Gaunts Ghosts. Im a sucker for the inquisition and high level space marines. I've been through Soul Drinkers, Wolves, Grey Knights omnibuses,most of the Heresy, Night Lords, the Inquisition series as well as Abnetts Eisenhorn books/spinoffs.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 22:37
|
|
|
Waroduce posted:Im planning on finishing Helsreach this week, and with the lack of new Heresy book, can anyone give me some recommendations on similarly good but relatively unknown books? Wrath of Iron Legion of the Damned Ahriman: Exile Atlas Infernal
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 22:41
|
|
|
Mechafunkzilla posted:Wrath of Iron Thank you kindly
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2013 22:47
|
|
|
So what do you all think of the Horus Heresy series? I picked up the first one at the bookstore today and was wondering what everyone's opinion on it was. Of course the only way for me to decide if it is good in my opinion is to read it myself but figured I'd ask so I know what I'm getting myself into. Thanks!
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2013 02:26
|
|
|
There's some awesome books and there are a couple of real stinkers. If you read through the thread, you'll see which ones people hate. I'm not a super-critical reader, so I found cool, enjoyable points in almost all of the books but the ADB and Abnett books are really fantastic and I tend to plow through them in a couple of sittings versus some of the other books. I know it gets suggested every other post but knowing the movies and tv stuff that you're into, if you haven't read the Night Lords books, I think you'd enjoy it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2013 02:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 19:14 |
|
|
My question about the HH books is how much is skippable? Do you have to choke down the crap books to understand what happens in the good ones?
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2013 02:55
|
|