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John McCain posted:No, not really, but it's a lot of micromanagement for relatively small return. You act as if I had any better options. I didn't understand THACO, what buffs were good and which weren't, what debuffs were good and which weren't. It was high return  Also when BG first released there was some awful bug with Paladins where the game would crash once you got to Baldur's Gate because of the dream sequence...all that work down the drain. I don't think I picked it up again until after BG2 had come out and I got that game on a whim. Ahh the early 2000s 
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Dec 9, 2013 17:47
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I'd say that short of using an Inquisitor, it's the quickest and dirtiest way to deal with a mage before he starts popping Shadow Doors and clones and generally being a prick. Whoops, triple damage, you're dead.
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Dec 9, 2013 17:47
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oswald ownenstein posted:Is 'run up, backstab, run away, restealth, repeat' considered metagaming? Me too, in fact when I was much younger and this game first came out it was the only way I could get through certain encounters. Nowadays info on how to powergame like a madman is readily available on the internet and all, but the old backstab and run away mechanic helped me immensely in these games. It was especially useful in BG1, but I even kept it up in BG2 on my first playthrough as a thief. It was starting to get less useful by the time ToB rolled out though.
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Dec 9, 2013 17:59
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Talking about dealing with wizards, I always set up a trap cluster for the Cowled Wizard Enforcers. I ain't paying for no certificate. 
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Dec 9, 2013 18:11
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A fighter hitting for 15 3 times every turn is a monster force you will never notice cause its happening so fast with little effort on the players part. A thief backstabbing for 45 once per round looks super impressive and takes the players attention making it somehow more interesting even though its a fraction of what a front line tank can do.
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Dec 9, 2013 20:17
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DeathChicken posted:I'd say that short of using an Inquisitor, it's the quickest and dirtiest way to deal with a mage before he starts popping Shadow Doors and clones and generally being a prick. Whoops, triple damage, you're dead. It's also amazingly safe and, if you're doing a solo Thief for any stretch, pretty much the only way to deal with some encounters. Haters gonna hate.
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Dec 9, 2013 20:23
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My first victory against Firkraag was literally whoring traps with Yoshimo. I was just awful at the game. It's amazing how badly you can do when you don't realize what buffs/potions/etc. are good and what aren't. If I couldn't range-and-run fireball it, or backstab it to death, I didn't know what to do. Chaotic Commands? Resist Fear? What's that? Bless and unpause. That's my strategy. ps. learning what Stoneskin did changed my life. I started looking at buff durations after that.
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Dec 9, 2013 20:32
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zedprime posted:A fighter hitting for 15 3 times every turn is a monster force you will never notice cause its happening so fast with little effort on the players part. A thief backstabbing for 45 once per round looks super impressive and takes the players attention making it somehow more interesting even though its a fraction of what a front line tank can do. A thief with a good staff that gibs the opposition spellcaster for 150+ damage before the fight even starts beats your fighter who can't connect because of the mage's protections every time. 
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Dec 9, 2013 21:31
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Dillbag posted:A thief with a good staff that gibs the opposition spellcaster for 150+ damage before the fight even starts beats your fighter who can't connect because of the mage's protections every time. At that point anyone can gib anyone given the right build, and that mage will either have 3 more mage friends whose contingencies just fired, or is actually a dragon with 500hp. I'm on your side though more or less. Thieves are another tool in your kit if you have the patience and I've never been able to bring myself to play without one no matter what the numbers say.
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Dec 9, 2013 22:06
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I always played with an assassin character in BG2, it never really was a huge problem but I was never a powergamer, and you can get so much good stuff that the differences don't really seem that huge at the end. I liked not really caring about traps a lot, no need to cast globes or whatever to avoid the effects if you just go disarm it.
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Dec 9, 2013 22:10
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Is it Mislead that gives you the body double that gives you invisibility until your illusion is dead? So a mage/thief can back stab repeatedly during it? Mages make everything better in BG2.
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Dec 9, 2013 22:15
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Everyone has their "well it didnt work when I was a kid so I don't do it" strategies. I refuse to gently caress with stealth in infinity engine games because I couldn't figure it out as a kid. Turns out I had made a very common error: when you go to allocate your Thief points, you can scroll down to other choices. I did not notice this until muuuuuch later. So as a result all my characters sucked at stealth. Thats why I play swashbuckler now. Also in Neverwinter Nights 2 they had swashbucklers but they called them Duelists, and they had a really bitchin hat. Then I guess in Storm of Zehir (which I enver played) they reintroduced the swash. Swash4lyfe. edit:I couldn't find a picture of the hat but you basically look like this guy only less dorky. SolidSnakesBandana fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Dec 9, 2013 |
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Dec 9, 2013 22:24
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zedprime posted:Is it Mislead that gives you the body double that gives you invisibility until your illusion is dead? So a mage/thief can back stab repeatedly during it? I got halfway through a F/M/T small party playthrough before Bg2EE and used that just once; it felt too cheesy.
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Dec 9, 2013 22:31
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Rolling Scissors posted:Talking about dealing with wizards, I always set up a trap cluster for the Cowled Wizard Enforcers. I ain't paying for no certificate. Traps were also really effective on the liches guarding Kangaxx's boy parts and Kangaxx himself.
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Dec 9, 2013 22:56
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I remember being an awful hoarder of anything and everything; the first time I used a protection from undead scroll in BG2 I thought the game was bugged as I could run around and kill vampires without them even noticing me.
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Dec 9, 2013 23:10
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Factor_VIII posted:Traps were also really effective on the liches guarding Kangaxx's boy parts and Kangaxx himself. I must have missed that part of the quest...
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Dec 9, 2013 23:12
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On the other hand, sneaking and backstabbing is fun (to me at least). And quite frankly, isn't that what's most important?
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Dec 9, 2013 23:23
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Cat Army 
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The Iron Rose posted:On the other hand, sneaking and backstabbing is fun (to me at least). And quite frankly, isn't that what's most important? sebzilla posted:I must have missed that part of the quest...
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Dec 9, 2013 23:28
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Playing BG2EE: I tried to do the double-double-cross of the Matron Mother and Phaere by giving them both the fake eggs, and then I was going to give the real eggs to the demon myself, but for some reason when the dialogue pops up with the demon, all I can do is remain silent or tell the demon to get the gently caress out. I could've sworn I had done this in the past, even with a good-aligned PC... none of the guides mention any alignment restriction in the dialogue, but maybe one was added in the EE ?
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Dec 10, 2013 02:16
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No, it's always been an alignment restricted dialogue choice. Same with siding with Firkraag.
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Dec 10, 2013 02:22
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The Iron Rose posted:On the other hand, sneaking and backstabbing is fun (to me at least). And quite frankly, isn't that what's most important? Yeah this isn't really even a valid argument to have in this thread. I hated micromanaging backstabs so I didn't, but I enjoyed stacking webs/entangles and dropping fireballs and cloudkills to win which is just as boring, honestly. Just use whatever you think is fun, since overall the game's pretty goddamn easy and you can win with anything
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Dec 10, 2013 02:26
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So I cocked up and dual classed Imoen at Thief level 5 instead of Thief Level 6. She is Mage level 5 right now, and I would like to fix her class with EE Keeper if at all possible, since I don't want to have to reload a save from that long ago. Can someone walk me through this? Most concerned about having the game recognize her as a dual class thief/mage and also have whatever proficiencies and abilities might come with Thief 6.
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Dec 10, 2013 16:12
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Gyshall posted:So I cocked up and dual classed Imoen at Thief level 5 instead of Thief Level 6. She is Mage level 5 right now, and I would like to fix her class with EE Keeper if at all possible, since I don't want to have to reload a save from that long ago. Can someone walk me through this? Most concerned about having the game recognize her as a dual class thief/mage and also have whatever proficiencies and abilities might come with Thief 6. Just roll with it? Thief 5 is already enough points to handle locks and traps, and gives you the x3 backstab multiplier as well.
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Dec 10, 2013 16:20
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Does anyone know if there is a mod that would work in BG2EE to turn Imoen into a pure thief? If not, would one need to use EEkeeper? I had a look in EEkeeper and there doesn't seem to be a simple way to turn her into a thief.
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Dec 10, 2013 16:49
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Why on earth would you ever want to turn Imoen into a pure thief when her default set up in BG2 is so good?
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Dec 10, 2013 16:51
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verybad posted:Just roll with it? Thief 5 is already enough points to handle locks and traps, and gives you the x3 backstab multiplier as well. Alright, I will do that. I tend to spend my downtime at work reading BG guides and double-guessing myself, which is hosed. I'm having much more fun just playing the game
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Dec 10, 2013 17:02
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Factor_VIII posted:Does anyone know if there is a mod that would work in BG2EE to turn Imoen into a pure thief? If not, would one need to use EEkeeper? I had a look in EEkeeper and there doesn't seem to be a simple way to turn her into a thief. I have no idea why you'd want to do this, but you can use EE keeper to do it. Set her class to thief, level to 0, hp to 0, thaco to 20, then load the game. She'll be dead, so Ctrl R her and she'll level up to 1, so you can just level her from 1 however you want. She's going to be super useless compared to her default setup though, so only do it if you really really want a pure thief for some reason instead of a thief that can handle every lock/trap in the game and also has spells
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Dec 10, 2013 17:05
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Does anybody know where I can get the large and medium versions of this portrait from BG1 EE? I could only find the small version and this is it scaled correctly in GIMP but it looks like straight cheeks. It only shows up on the char screen but it's kind of annoying me  I have googled it but all I can find are custom packs with poo poo like this in them: 
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Dec 10, 2013 17:19
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Why do people go with Berserker/Druid for powergaming a dual class warrior/priest type? Are Druid spells more suited to beating the poo poo out of people or something? Why not Ranger/Cleric or Fighter/Cleric?
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Dec 10, 2013 17:43
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Ranger/Cleric is one of the most notorious combinations in the game for having one extremely strong character, so not sure where you're coming from? Ironskin is pretty good though.
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Dec 10, 2013 17:45
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Captain Oblivious posted:Why on earth would you ever want to turn Imoen into a pure thief when her default set up in BG2 is so good?
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Dec 10, 2013 17:45
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People do use both of those? But yeah, Ironskins makes Berserker/Druid a little more overpowered than a fighter/cleric.
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Dec 10, 2013 17:47
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Mahasamatman posted:Why do people go with Berserker/Druid for powergaming a dual class warrior/priest type? Are Druid spells more suited to beating the poo poo out of people or something? Why not Ranger/Cleric or Fighter/Cleric? Ironskin, Insect Swarm, Nature's Beauty and heals are all pretty great to have. There's an argument to be made for the weapon selection as well. Berserker/Cleric is also valid, but a large part of the appeal of Berserker/Druid is that Druids level stupid fast and hit level 10 really goddamn quickly which means you get your Berserker stuff back in no time flat. Factor_VIII posted:I want to try my hand at playing through BG2 without any mages. Only problem is that all the non-evil thieves available for the entire game are also mages and I'd like to use Keldorn to deal with enemy mages, which means Hexxat is out. Converting Imoen into a pure thief would mean I could use Yoshimo in chapter 2 as a thief and then switch to her. That makes sense.
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Dec 10, 2013 17:47
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MrTheDevious posted:Ranger/Cleric is one of the most notorious combinations in the game for having one extremely strong character, so not sure where you're coming from? This is mostly stuff from the EE boards at baldursgate.com. People were mentioning Berserker/Druid along with Kensai/Thief and Kensai/Mage as powergaming characters. I played the poo poo out of this game as a kid and didn't ever really power-game it so I'm kinda lost figuring out what all the most powerful stuff is. Honestly the game doesn't need to be broken with NPC's like Keldorn and Edwin around--I was just curious what made the Berserker/Druid powerful in particular. e: I didn't even think of being able to use scimitars for the extra attack. Welp.
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Dec 10, 2013 17:48
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Mahasamatman posted:This is mostly stuff from the EE boards at baldursgate.com. People were mentioning Berserker/Druid along with Kensai/Thief and Kensai/Mage as powergaming characters. I played the poo poo out of this game as a kid and didn't ever really power-game it so I'm kinda lost figuring out what all the most powerful stuff is. Honestly the game doesn't need to be broken with NPC's like Keldorn and Edwin around--I was just curious what made the Berserker/Druid powerful in particular. Here's some basic numbers that help show the appeal: So you're a level 9 Berserker, the optimal level to dual class. You're going to need to reach level 10 in something to get your powers back. If you go the Cleric route that's gonna take 450k exp. If you go the Druid route that's going to take 125k.
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Dec 10, 2013 17:50
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Factor_VIII posted:Does anyone know if there is a mod that would work in BG2EE to turn Imoen into a pure thief? If not, would one need to use EEkeeper? I had a look in EEkeeper and there doesn't seem to be a simple way to turn her into a thief. Load up the game, res them (setting hp to 0 will kill them), and go through the level-up process as normal. quote:So you're a level 9 Berserker, the optimal level to dual class. You're going to need to reach level 10 in something to get your powers back. If you go the Cleric route that's gonna take 450k exp. If you go the Druid route that's going to take 125k.
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Dec 10, 2013 18:36
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The druid level progression is hosed. You get to level 12 super quickly (300,000 exp). Then you need 450,000 for the next level. Then 750,000. Then 1,500,000 for level 15. After that it goes fast again at 150,000 per level for about 6 levels. Then it gradually slows down to 500,000 per level until the 8,000,000 cap.
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Dec 10, 2013 18:49
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Zephro posted:Pretty sure you can change anyone's class by setting their level to 0, their THACO to 20 and their hp to zero, then altering their class to whichever one you like. Then give them an appropriate amount of xp for the level you want them to be. The xp chasm between 14 and 15 isn't relevant to the question here. Yeah it sucks but when you get over the hump everything is gravy. The Druid levelling curve is not so much a curve as a non-sensical rollercoaster. It's warp speed until about level 12, which means you get your spell slots way crazy fast. It slows down but eh, by that point it no longer matters.
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Dec 10, 2013 18:50
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The druids indeed have the weirdest XP progression. They start out advancing the fastest second only to Thieves and Bards, only for their XP requirements to suddenly spike at level 12 and then they level the slowest of all classes and eventually end up leveling at around the same rate as mages. Mages are also odd though, as they start out needing the most XP to level but around level 7 actually level up the fastest with the exception of Thieves, Bards and Druids, until around level 14 when they start falling behind the other classes and end up advancing the slowest again. The bizarre druid progression is a relic of 2E, where at level 14 a druid became the Archdruid who ruled over all the druids on the planet, so later levels were sort of irrelevant. Druids in 2E (past the first few levels) had to fight other druids in the druid hierarchy in order to gain a level. The winner got to attain the position and relevant level. The loser lost a level (and all accompanying XP) and went down the hierarchy. It was a pretty hosed up and unfair system (none of the other classes had to fight duels in order to level up) which thankfully wasn't implemented in BG. PS: Here's a graph I had made of the various progressions:
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Dec 10, 2013 19:00
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Pen and paper Druid are doing crazy hierarchical things from 12 onwards which is part of the explanation for their loopy XP tables. They're technically only even 'initiates' until 12th, when they get the full Druid title. You can see a remnant of this in BG2's rule that you can't challenge for rule of a Druid grove until 14th. Which is a bit of a comedown from 'you can now challenge for Druidic rule of the continent' which you originally got at 14th. Then at 15th you are Druid ruler of the entire goddam world, then at 16th you lose all your XP but keep your abilities and start levelling up again as a Hierophant Druid and ... 2e Druids were really loving weird and complicated, OK? Fun if you were into them but crazy as poo poo.
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Dec 10, 2013 19:03
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