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I've got a question about ocarina's are there any left handed transverse? I did some cursory looking send it seems like a no go. If that's the case is it easy for a strong lefty to use the transverse style or would be better off with a inline one?
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Nov 30, 2013 13:50
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Cerepol posted:I've got a question about ocarina's are there any left handed transverse? I did some cursory looking send it seems like a no go. If that's the case is it easy for a strong lefty to use the transverse style or would be better off with a inline one? Tricky question. From what little I've been able to find on some old Ocarina Network threads, the general consensus seems to be that it's best to just play a "standard" ocarina regardless of handedness. Some argue that being left-handed is actually an advantage even on a standard ocarina, as the left hand has some of the greater burden anyway. One of the few models of lefty ocarina I've seen mentioned was made not so much for convenience, but because apparently the character Link is left-handed, and the artists of Ocarina of Time had drawn up a mirror-image ocarina for him to play in the game, leading to some Zeldophile purists demanding a mirrored ocarina to buy in real life. I would suggest buying a decent but inexpensive transverse, like on of STL's $16+ plastic models and see if you end up finding it comfortable with your handedness. Another good reason to buy a "standard": even if you were to find a decent mirrored model, then you'd be stuck with a tiny sliver of the wider ocarina market accessible to you. Give learning the standard model a fair shake, and likely you'll find it fits fine, and you're not risking much cash trying it out.  Do note that the hand position of a transverse is not immediately intuitive, so give yourself a little time to get accustomed to it even if it initially feels unnatural. Try slight variations of head and hand angles, find one that feels comfortable over time. Yet another good reason to get in plenty of practice in little 5-minute intervals over the course of the day, instead of putting it off for some nebulous point where you'll have hours free. That's one of the great things of low-maintenance instruments like plastic ocarina: you can just leave it sitting on a desk so you can grab it and blow into it for 60 seconds whenever your mood strikes you. No tuneup, no carefully boxing it up back in a case. Just try to avoid stepping on it, dust it off once in a while, and every few months rinse out the gunge inside it. 
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Dec 1, 2013 10:17
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Odd update: I talked to my friend who wanted an instrument that could be played while nursing. I was pretty she was going to go with kantele, given that they're inexpensive and/or easy to build. But it turns out she has relatives in Hokkaido, so she's looking at the Ainu tonkori as her first choice if she can get one via them, or have her husband build one. One of the only places I know to buy a tonkori off-the-shelf is at the Ainu Museum in Sapporo. It was like $600 last year, but apparently the yen is weaker or some such thing, so it's just over $400 now: http://www.ainu-museum.or.jp/shop/tonkori.html  That aside, I've sold 4 dulcimers this week, so trimming down my rather large accumulation, and going to standardise on some more travel-able solid-body dulcimers, or some variant on the basic fretboards that come with cardboard dulcimers.
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Dec 4, 2013 03:35
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I have gotten an autoharp! Any suggestions for a decent collection of folk/traditional melodies with chords? I don't think I'd need something autoharp specific right? Just tablature
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Dec 4, 2013 20:05
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:Odd update: I talked to my friend who wanted an instrument that could be played while nursing. I was pretty she was going to go with kantele, given that they're inexpensive and/or easy to build. But it turns out she has relatives in Hokkaido, so she's looking at the Ainu tonkori as her first choice if she can get one via them, or have her husband build one. Weirdly enough, a shop has opened near me that had a Tonkori in stock, I was tempted to buy it but the price (£599) put me off somewhat.
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Dec 4, 2013 20:29
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I was thinking of getting a U-Bass but they're too pricey for what will pretty much just be a toy for me. Are there any similar tiny bass instruments I can play that are somewhat cheap?
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Dec 6, 2013 14:26
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TopherCStone posted:I was thinking of getting a U-Bass but they're too pricey for what will pretty much just be a toy for me. Are there any similar tiny bass instruments I can play that are somewhat cheap? Which U-Bass are you looking at where the price is too high? There are some models that are $1000+, but the Kala Rumbler is like $350, though I haven't full read up on whatever downsides the lower-budget model has or hasn't. But that aside, the main U-Bass alternative would be to go back to the 1980s axe that inspired it: the Ashbory bass. (yes, with an "o" not a "u")  Video overview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lM6yiqFHDI The Ashbory was the first major bass to use huge thick silicone strings, which eliminates the need for the huge long scale length of most basses, allowing clear electrified bass notes in a fingerboard of only 18". If possible, it'd be good to try one out in person first, since some people really enjoy them, but others can't stand the huge and low-tension rubbery strings (detractors call it the "booger bass"). I owned one for a bit back in the early 2000s or so, but just wasn't playing much electric anything those days, and iirc I was in the military and just not playing a lot of music at all because of the lifestyle. I remember really liking the concept, and had some initial weirdness getting used to the strings, but probably would've warmed to them if I'd just tried them longer. If you're buying new, I'd go right to https://www.largesound.com . They're a kind of hobbyist/specialist Ashbory dealer, so the prices are pretty reasonable for full-package deals, $327 with gig bag. And importantly they do QC and settup; the current prod Ashborys are made in Korea, and LS.com states that in some batches they return 30% of them for being out of spec, so they argue that their QC is a huge improvement over a drop-ship dealer who just pulls them out of the crate from Asia. If you need lower you can watch for used, but read LS's FAQ about the past iterations of the product, since some of the early versions (like the Guild ones) have some quirky tuners that are best replaced with the modern versions (the design is now owned by Fender), and other such weaknesses. They pop up used on eBay a few times a week or so, as low as $150-200, but sometimes they get bid up to almost retail, so just depends who's shopping that week.  With whatever order, you also want to spend $4 each to buy an extra D and G string (the smallest ones) since those break more often, and maybe one full replacement set. The big silicone strings take some breaking-in to hold good tune, and you have to pay a little attention to getting them set in right, but once they're settled in they don't corrode like steel strings do, so they last way long. Speaking of the strings, apparently some folks prefer the Ashbory design, but the Kala strings, so they put the Kala "Pahoehoe" strings onto the Ashbory. Here's a clip with that settup: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLJ3Oba-10M Note that despite its size/shape, the Ashbory behaves a lot more like an upright bass fiddle than it does a bass guitar. Also the lines on the neck aren't frets, they're inlaid lines for finger placement; it's a fretless instrument. That's my main recommendation, so it's worth reading up some of the various threads online contrasting the U-Bass vs. Ashbory.
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Dec 7, 2013 19:27
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:Which U-Bass are you looking at where the price is too high? There are some models that are $1000+, but the Kala Rumbler is like $350, though I haven't full read up on whatever downsides the lower-budget model has or hasn't. Thanks for this post. Yeah, I was looking at the $350 ones and just couldn't buy one. If they were $100 less I'd consider it. There is a $175 clone made of a converted baritone uke on eBay but I'd rather not gamble on that. I will have to check out the Ashbory. I doubt I'll be able to find one locally but it sounds from your description that the resale market is pretty swift so even if I don't like it I could porbably flip it and get back about what I paid.
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Dec 7, 2013 20:10
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Chin Strap posted:I have gotten an autoharp! Any suggestions for a decent collection of folk/traditional melodies with chords? I don't think I'd need something autoharp specific right? Just tablature Hay goon, so you're playing autoharp now too. Are you still playing duet concertina as well? So far as "tablature" and the like: I'd suggest since you're a beginner in the strummy-strummy phase, all you really need is just folksongs with generic chords on them, which are found plentifully across the internet. In its simplest form, they'll have lyrics to a song, and indicate where and when (on what word) you move to the next chord. So nothing autoharp-specific about it. Sites like http://www.acousticmusicarchive.com/ have a large number of the most popular folksongs, and often have recordings showing what they sound like. Figure out what broad style/nationality of song you like, and track down the chords for its most popular hits. So for Americana stuff, "May the Circle Be Unbroken", "Man of Constant Sorrow", "Banks of the Ohio", etc. At this phase I'd just go with strumming chords as you sing the lyrics above them. The tricky part for the next skill level is learning to do actual fingerpicking of melody on autoharp. I've never gotten to that stage myself, but for that you're going to want to either watch online tutorials, buy an instruction book or DVD, or spend a little time with a teacher. Autoharp can indeed play precise melodies rather than just strum, but I haven't found that immediately intuitive. Sounds great though.
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Dec 10, 2013 02:59
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:Hay goon, so you're playing autoharp now too. Are you still playing duet concertina as well? Thanks for the suggestions! That's the sort of stuff I'm looking for. No, my concertina just hangs there for now. I really should've just gotten an accordion like I wanted. The music I want to play is too chromatic for my concertina.
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Dec 11, 2013 11:44
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Chin Strap posted:Thanks for the suggestions! That's the sort of stuff I'm looking for. No, my concertina just hangs there for now. I really should've just gotten an accordion like I wanted. The music I want to play is too chromatic for my concertina. Ah, that is the downside of the Elise model: one of the best settups for accompaniment, but in its smaller 35-button incarnation sacrifices chromaticity, until you get up to 42 buttons or more. If you end up not needing it, you should be able to sell it on the Concertina Forum for not too much of a hit, if not right here in the thread. Are you thinking to try out a small piano accordion at some point for contrast, or at least try to find a CBA (chromatic button accordion) in a shop somewhere that you can at least feel out? Oddly enough, a goon PMed me not long ago to say that he'd bought a CBA based on this thread, so I'm trying to get him to come megapost on them. Here's an instrument that's incredibly accessible and affordable, to the point I feel remiss in not having made a full megapost for it years ago. I also might should've brought it up earlier before Christmas since they can make great musical gifts, but there are still a few shopping days left... Kalimba, mbira, thumb-piano, etc.  The "thumb piano" refers to a wide range of "plucked lamellophones" originating in Africa. That is, instruments where one plucks a flexible tongue, setting it vibrating and producing a note. These were found intermittently scattered across most of Sub-Saharran Africa, though I've tended to think of it mostly as being a Middle-West thing (Wiki says Congo and Zimbabwe particularly known for it). The produce a very clear, inharmonic, humming tone, almost vaguely digital to our modern ears. The settup for most kalimba is unlike most Euro instruments (save for, oddly enough, English concertina) in that instead of having a clear "low notes on the left, high on the right" layout, they tend to put the lowest note in the middle, then have the notes alternate back and forth. This has several advantages, in that it makes runs up and down a scale faster since you divide the work between two hands, and also adjoining tongues tend to harmonize so you can smack several together.  A lot of the kalimbas sold on the mass-market today are "diatonic", playing a basic Western scale in one key. However, I'm a strong believer that the average kalimba buyer would be best off choosing a "pentatonic" model, one having a 5-note scale like a Native American flute has. Such an instrument is very hard to sound bad on since most of the note combinations you could hit, even randomly, sound pretty good together. I don't think most people who get their hands on a kalimba are best served trying to pick out the melody to "Sweet Home Alabama" on it by ear, so much as to simply establish a groove they can enjoy. I've given pentatonic kalimbas to non-music friends as gifts, and I tell them not to even think of it as "notes", but just as patterns. Like imagine you had a drumstick in your hand, and on the table in front of you a tin cup, a porcelain mug, and a hardcover book. You'd be frustrated trying to "make it sound like XYZ", but if you just do "book...mug...tin-tin, mug" and then repeatedly play that riff, maybe warping the rhythm a bit, or throwing in an off-beat here and there, you could just groove into that for minutes at a time. Same with a pentatonic instrument like a pent kalimba, just establish a pattern and sink into it.  Some traditional-style African kalimbas are a little harder to tune since the bracket holding the tines is staked in, but on most modern ones there are bolts on the bar trapping the tines, so you can just carefully loosen the bolts just enough to wiggle a tine longer or shorter, so you could turn an A Major pent into a A Minor Pent by just pulling your C tine out slightly until it plays a C#. You see a number of variants on these: some solid-body with just tines on a board, others with hollow bodies or wood, gourd or metal, and some electrified via transducer. Some of the acoustic ones are amplified by placing them on top of a drum or other resonating body. One common addition especially on trad ones is to have small rattly bits like bottlecaps nailed to the body, or metal or plastic rings on the tines to cause slight interference and buzzing.  Like a lot of things in this thread, there are enough great affordable kalimbas that you really don't need to risk buying unknowns to save a fiver. The shop Kalimba Magic carries a mid to mid-high range of instruments, but the Catania brand they stock has some good stuff as low as $25. If money isn't an issue and you want a really cute pentatonic to give as a gift, the Bothe are great but pricey tiny things for $100. Mountain Melodies makes some affordable but good cedar kalimbas for as low as $25, in pentatonic or diatonic. Hugh Tracey is the classic brand that introduced kalimba to an audience outside of Africa; they're a little boxy and focused on playing Western scales, but have a solid grip on a facet of the market. I've given a few kalimbas as gifts and may do so again, but for myself I'm fixing to buy an electric to use in a friend's upcoming project. I'm pretty sure I'll spend the $100 to get the Catania 11-note (2octave) pentatonic solid-body, and then run it through the effects pedals I have to give it distortion, flange, etc. Though there is a mad genius who runs eKalimba.com and has built all manner of freaky-deaky electrics, for moderately more than the mass-market options.  If you want an instrument that takes very little maintenance, compact and relatively inexpensive, and that (though not optimal for trying to play set melodies on) is extremely easy to just groove out on and sound good even as a novice, then it's really hard to beat a kalimba, especially in a pentatonic scale. Clips: - South African singer backing himself up on mbira with acoustic effects: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTT0fIxxxRU - mbira ensemble in Zimbabwe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl0Nq_YuhmU - a pretty good example of what a total novice mucking around with a diatonic sounds like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPp5NJ8bmjw - a little Legend of Zelda soundtrack music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAtDluPjweM - a Hugh Tracey retuned to the Japanese pentatonc Akebono scale: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7e_6o6wHpi4 - a tiny electrified kalimba with effects pedals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWAzm4HzAV0
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Dec 14, 2013 03:37
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I'm going to buy a kalimba now
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Dec 14, 2013 06:11
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TopherCStone posted:I'm going to buy a kalimba now Don't leave us wondering; which one are you getting?
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Dec 17, 2013 01:59
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Just bought a tin whistle off Amazon, not sure how active this thread still is but hey its worth a shot 
Dassiell fucked around with this message at 10:58 on Dec 17, 2013 |
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Dec 17, 2013 09:40
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:Don't leave us wondering; which one are you getting? I was looking at getting a cheap pentatonic one, but then I thought about how cool it would be if I had an electric one, but then I remembered I really wanted something bassy and started thinking about making a Bogdon Box Bass clone. But so far I haven't done anything because I also kind of want a kalimba. I'm paralyzed by indecision.
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Dec 17, 2013 18:43
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I was visiting my parents last weekend, and realized that we've had an appalachian dulcimer hanging on the wall for years (which my dad probably found at a garage sale). I'm not sure if it's actually any good; it seems like it might be intended just for decoration. I didn't take pictures, but it only has three rather thin seeming strings, for tuning it has wooden pegs that you kinda press in to lock in place, and one of the strings is a bit low and buzzes against the first fret. Any idea if it's even worth messing around with?
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Dec 17, 2013 19:43
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:Ah, that is the downside of the Elise model: one of the best settups for accompaniment, but in its smaller 35-button incarnation sacrifices chromaticity, until you get up to 42 buttons or more. If you end up not needing it, you should be able to sell it on the Concertina Forum for not too much of a hit, if not right here in the thread. Sorry about not doing the CBA writeup. My lovely CBA arrived at my house with the innards thoroughly bashed. The accordion store that sold it to me were amazing to work with and offered me a full refund with no hassle whatsoever. They told me that it was not uncommon for full sized accordions to be damaged in transit, which spooked me a bit. So, I took my refund and put my accordion ambitions on hold for a while. However, I may give kalimba another run, as I haven't touched my old one in about a year.
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Dec 17, 2013 20:48
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Could someone write a song using only the fingerings of the tin whistle, then collaborate with others on it and have them write their own instruments into it?
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Dec 18, 2013 07:20
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Dassiell posted:Could someone write a song using only the fingerings of the tin whistle, then collaborate with others on it and have them write their own instruments into it? Absolutely
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Dec 18, 2013 14:20
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Lhet posted:I was visiting my parents last weekend, and realized that we've had an appalachian dulcimer hanging on the wall for years (which my dad probably found at a garage sale). I'm not sure if it's actually any good; it seems like it might be intended just for decoration. I didn't take pictures, but it only has three rather thin seeming strings, for tuning it has wooden pegs that you kinda press in to lock in place, and one of the strings is a bit low and buzzes against the first fret. Any idea if it's even worth messing around with? Depends really, it's a bit hard to say without pictures. Personally I'd say go for it! It sounds like the nut slot (nut being the string 'guide' at the peghead) is a bit low, a cheap and dirty fix is to put a small amount of superglue on the end of a cocktail stick, 'paint' in a thin layer of superglue, wait for it to dry, put the string make in and repeat until the buzzing has stopped, or even put a tiny sliver of paper underneath the string. Saying this, I'm hardly an expert on dulcimers, it might be best to post some pictures up and see if anyone else here can help.
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Dec 18, 2013 20:01
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Anyone have any insight into how to enhance music from the whistle with vibrato?
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Dec 19, 2013 02:29
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Dassiell posted:Could someone write a song using only the fingerings of the tin whistle, then collaborate with others on it and have them write their own instruments into it? As a more complex answer, is your question: - "Can I work up some lines/riffs on tinwhistle, tell my guitarist buddy 'hey, here's my tune, play along' and he figures it out and then his bass buddy comes in to support it?" If so, sure, someone with basic music experience should be able to find some way along particularly if you tell them what key your tinwhistle is in, and what the "keynote" is (the note your tune tends to finish up or rest on) your whistle is in). - "I don't know how to read music, so can I 'write' down my tinwhistle fingerings with a tablature of pictograms of how I hold my fingers, and other instruments can write sheet music based on that?" If the former, sure, other instrumentalists with basic improvisation skills should be able to merge in to what you're doing; for more basic musicians it'll be a big help if you tell them what key your whistle is in, and if you're "shading" any notes with half-holes or forked fingerings to vary the scale. But if they're mid-level skilled on guitar/piano/etc they can probably just figure it out by playing by ear along with you several times. If your goal is to actually write musical notation, there are some slightly arcane ways you can do it with "ABC" programming which translates various tablatures of instrument fingerings into Standard sheet music and vice versa. I don't personally know how to do it, but such programs exist, probably some discussions of it on Chiff & Fipple Forum. In whatever case "ABC" is the main "translatable" coding for translating music between idioms. I would argue, however, if you seriously-ish want to write "sheet music" it's a very minor step forward to learn the names of each fingering. That is, on a D whistle a "xxx xxx" (low part of hand on the left) is a "D", "oxx xxx" is an "E", "oox xxx" is an "F#" etc. is quite easy to learn, and though not directly immediatley translatable, any friend who can write sheet music can "translate" it for you quite rapidly. But honestly, if you can call your fingerings by note-name, you're 75% to the way of being able to write full music scores all Beethoven-style anyway. As noted earlier in the thread, overall for "traditional" music it's not even slightly required to learn music, particularly as many of these are "aural" traditions where there are huge nuances that simply cannot be conveyed in print. And that isn't simply "oh, it's all primitive a-little-bit-of-this-a-little-taste-of that", many of these genres, including serious Irish Traditional Music (not folksong, the actual art-music melodic work) has clearly definable melodic and rhythic mathematical designations that are very tricky to record in standard Western notation. That said, if you want to do very basic composition work for standardized "Western" classical/art music that instrumentalists of all formally-trained-kinds will understand and be able to interact with, it is very much in your interest to learn the very, very basics of sheet music, even with a friend to advise you. Just depends what worlds you want to lean into.
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Dec 19, 2013 09:05
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Autoharp arrived with the plastic cover broken and the bar support broken on one side. Also needs a new set of strings. Luckily since it got damaged in transport and was an insured purchase, I got a full refund, which more than covers the cost of a full string set and replacement parts. It will be a hell of a job though considering I've never messed with anything like this before.
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Dec 20, 2013 16:45
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I think my new plan is to build a string bass out of random crap like Roy Talbot here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RrmeJbGQqk Mine will have at least 2 strings though
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Dec 21, 2013 05:10
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Dassiell posted:Anyone have any insight into how to enhance music from the whistle with vibrato? Here's a pretty good clip with examples of several distinct ways to do it, albeit on a low whistle but same concepts apply: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK9RmMnDuPA Interestingly, it notes that you can get vibrato either with your fingers, throat, or diaphragm. I would've thought one of those would be the "wrong way", but apparently they're valid techniques. For those unfamiliar: "vibrato" is the quavery sound in a note caused it fluctuating minutely in and out of pitch. Violinists do it by wiggling their fingers a little so that their fingered note goes a tiny bit sharp, then swing to a tiny bit flat, swinging back and forth several times in a second. It helps keep the sound more exciting by not having as long of constant smooth tones.  quote:I was visiting my parents last weekend, and realized that we've had an appalachian dulcimer hanging on the wall for years (which my dad probably found at a garage sale). I'm not sure if it's actually any good; it seems like it might be intended just for decoration. I didn't take pictures, but it only has three rather thin seeming strings, for tuning it has wooden pegs that you kinda press in to lock in place, and one of the strings is a bit low and buzzes against the first fret. Any idea if it's even worth messing around with? The main thing that would make a dulcimer unplayable is if someone completely dicked up the proportions of distances between the frets, so it can never find a proper scale. A somewhat less severe possibility is having the frets right but having the position of nut and bridge relative to them wrong. That's why I really favor bridges that aren't fixed in place, but can slide back and forth a little on the fingerboard for adjustment. For starters, I'd just work on one string, and get it too the proper height, then see if you can get a reasonable-sounding scale out of it. If that works, but some fresh strings, tune it up and play. The basic easy way to check string height is with a US nickel and dime. Balance the dime flat horizontal atop the first fret, and if you have to squeeze the string up to fit it under there the action is too low, and if the string is riding noticeably above the dime it's too high. It should roughly fit touching both string and fret but not forcing the string up. Then do the same on the 7th fret but with a nickel. Do note, if there's a fret like immediately next to your nut, that the "zero fret" which some designs use, your "first fret" is your first playable one. If your folks will let you borrow it so we can walk you through it at leisure that'd be easiest, plus with a photo we might even recognize what make it is. But I'd give pretty good odds it can be made playable with a little tweaking. Dulcimers are not greatly refined instruments; ones like these work just fine: 
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Dec 22, 2013 02:07
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Finally ordered a tinwhistle after lurking this thread for a while, a standard D. I'm also getting pretty tempted to try out the kantele as well (or the kanklės, as it were), try to play some traditional music that's actually my country's  .
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Dec 22, 2013 03:22
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:Dulcimers are not greatly refined instruments; ones like these work just fine: Never noticed this thread before, but the ad brought me here. I've been playing the dulcimer on and off for years. I'm nothing special, but I do funny and sometimes utterly vile notre&pick drone versions of old folk songs and even some newer stuff. Man, wish I had an old ugly looking one like that - the more beat to poo poo the better as long as it plays. It would fit my style so well. Right now the only one I have left is cardboard (hey, it works) with spray paint and stupid stickers everywhere. Also, I love that Pretty Polly video in the OP. That's the kind of stuff that's right down my alley.
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Dec 22, 2013 19:47
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For those of you who are interested in accordians or melodians, World Market has 60% off all toys today, including the kids accordian: http://www.worldmarket.com/product/kids-accordion.do
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Dec 22, 2013 22:26
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skrapp mettle posted:For those of you who are interested in accordians or melodians, World Market has 60% off all toys today, including the kids accordian: http://www.worldmarket.com/product/kids-accordion.do How good do those sound? For that price I'd be willing to get one just to fart around with it, but it can't sound like too much of a toy.
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Dec 22, 2013 23:41
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From page 2:TapTheForwardAssist posted:Oh, definitely. For "sounding fun at parties", I would mainly suggest you focus not on melodies, but on being able to just play a three-chord progression. If you don't know about music, don't sweat it, you probably have a guitar friend of someone who can walk you through it.
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Dec 23, 2013 00:30
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Fenrir posted:How good do those sound? For that price I'd be willing to get one just to fart around with it, but it can't sound like too much of a toy. A toy accordion is still a real instrument; it just has fewer reeds and a higher risk of being out-of-tune out-of-the-box. Also, the plastic bellows will be stiff and noisy compared to leather ones, but they'll loosen up and you'll get used to it over time. I had a a good experience buying a toy accordion online, but if at all possible, it's best to go to a store and physically try a few (dozen) until you find a good one. See also: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?action=showpost&noseen=1&postid=392496771 http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?action=showpost&noseen=1&postid=392764664 http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?action=showpost&noseen=1&postid=392770340 http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?action=showpost&noseen=1&postid=393221563
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Dec 23, 2013 00:32
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Eh, there's only so much effort I'm willing to put in over something like that. I was interested more as a curiosity. It really wouldn't amount to much more than that. Even my dulcimer is a thing I only break out every few months or so - I'm mostly just a singer. If there's an issue with them being out of tune in a way that's hard to correct then it's something I don't think I want to bother with. If I could get my hands on something that would sound cool for a while for 11 bucks that's one thing, but other than maybe a better dulcimer I'm not into spending more time or money toward another instrument that I'd have to learn. I just don't have the time these days  That said, I'd love to get my hands on an old disgusting ugly wood dulcimer that still plays right. You can't make these - they have to be aged like that beat up fucker TTFA posted earlier. drat I'd love to have that. Fenrir fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Dec 23, 2013 |
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Dec 23, 2013 00:56
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Hello goons. I've followed the thread for a while and I've finally been able to save up a bit of a treat myself to something for Christmas fund. The instrument that has held my attention the longest is the concertina. Actually getting a hold of one seems rather unlikely though. If I spend $200 on one I would be straining my wallet. I'm just looking for something that sounds decent, holds air, and I can play tunes on. Primarily sea shanties, hornpipes, whatever the generic term for that sort of music is, that sort of thing. Just to kick around for fun by myself or with a few friends. I am a bit hesitant in picking up an instrument where the fingering changes on the push and draw, but that may not really be a problem if someone who picked up an Anglo could comment. So far I'm thinking a Duet seems like the best choice for the flexibility. A toy accordion like the ones linked earlier might be a viable option. It isn't what I'm really after and seems a bit limiting though, especially if I can get a student concertina for a good price.
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Dec 23, 2013 07:19
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Lallander posted:The instrument that has held my attention the longest is the concertina. ... If I spend $200 on one I would be straining my wallet. I'm just looking for something that sounds decent, holds air, and I can play tunes on. Primarily sea shanties, hornpipes, whatever the generic term for that sort of music is, that sort of thing. Just to kick around for fun by myself or with a few friends. I am a bit hesitant in picking up an instrument where the fingering changes on the push and draw, but that may not really be a problem if someone who picked up an Anglo could comment. So far I'm thinking a Duet seems like the best choice for the flexibility. There are two separate angles to address her: which system, and what models to fit your price. You gave us most of the useful data we need, except it'd help if you mention how much music experience you do or don't have, and on what instruments. And when you say "sea chanteys", are you meaning like instrumental versions of the melody of "Drunken Sailor" and all, or playing to back up your singing?  My initial gut to what you've posted is to recommend starting with a 20-button Anglo concertina. This is historically the kind of instruments used for working-class dances, song accompaniment, etc. They are extremely easy to play, although not as versatile as English or Duet, but very hard to sound bad on. If playing basic song melodies with harmony, or just melody for fiddle-type tunes if you've got backup musicians covering harmony, or for playing nice long chords to back up your singing or someone else's (or a primary melody instrument like a fiddle) an Anglo works great. It won't play (at least easily, or on a 20-button) jazzy or classical stuff, and it can only play in two different keys and fake it in a few more, but if your musical requirements don't demand those they're easy/cheap/great. If you were dead-set on playing Irish fiddle tunes in a session 20-buttons doesn't really cut it, but if you're playing English or Americana fiddle tunes, and/or playing in small groups that are flexible on key, you're golden. Here's a few Anglo clips that I believe are the kind of music you're expressing interest in: - Three tunes on Anglo: one sea tune, one dance, one Morris: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHg6la96sNs - Just a noob dicking around a $50 beater German 20b Anglo, good example of how intuitive these are even if you have no idea of music theory or even note names, you just press things and do what sounds good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_H0_PIyb3U - I have no idea how "Monkey Island" became such a cult videogame, but here's the theme tune: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27LNO_Q9ans - Another noob, doing "Drunken Sailor" on his second day of mucking with a cheapie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYLVMXLp_kU So far as English, a good English player can pretty convincingly imitate the bounciness that is inherent to the Anglo, similar to how a very good Anglo player (on a 30- or 40-button) can sound as fluid as an English. But in both those cases it's some initial fight against the grain to get X sound of Y instrument for a novice. I would mainly suggest English over Anglo for your particular case if you are really adamant about being chromatic (able to play in all keys, like could play in the obscure G# as easily as playing in C), or playing very quick violin-like lines. Chording, and doing so rhythmically, is not terribly intuitive on English, but some folks make it sound good. If you want to hear "nautical" or good folky English, Alf Edwards was the man. A lot of YouTube clips don't list him by name, but pretty much whenever A.L. Lloyd is singing and here's a concertina that's Alf on the box. - Alf on the Irish song "Rosin the Beau" with Lloyd singing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElbCT-QPe60 - Alf backing Lloyd singing the sailor song "All For Me Grog": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGQqgwZ-nRM The latter clip is from Lloyd's album "Leviathan" which is a must-buy (or at least must-preview on iTunes) if you like nautical songs with concertina. For Duet, kind of square the different between these two: the Elise duet plays in four keys easily and can fake two more but isn't fully chromatic (any higher-quality Duet is chromatic, just Elise is a limited student piece). It's not as "mash paw make sound pretty" fucktardedly easy to make pleasant sounding chords on as the Anglo, but chording on it is more versatile than Anglo and way more intuitive than English. Personally, I think it's the least-quick of the systems for just fast melody runs, but that only matters much if you're doing breakneck-fast Irish tunes or classical violin solos; not at all for blue-collar ballads and clogging tunes. I play Duet because I wanted to be able to play complex chords/intervals for art music, non-Western music, etc. But if I were looking to play what you describe in your post I'd have gone right to Anglo (and those are what I do play on the Anglo I did later buy). So far as price: for English or Duet I would positively buy a Concertina Connection box for $400 new or $300 used; maybe lower used on a lucky day or if you ask around nicely on Concertina Forum. Barring total flukes, you're not going to find a cheaper English or Duet that's not a waste of money. Fortunately, a used Stagi or CC box will hold its value quite well, so you're unlikely to lose money on a $300 Jack/Jackie/Elise from CC. If you specifically want a 30-button Anglo, I would also go with a CC Rochelle, unless you luck across an even cheaper deal on a used Stagi/Bastari from a reputable (an actual musician) seller. However, if you find a 20-button Anglo to be a happy starter, there are some real price advantages. A 20b can't ("properly")do the currently-popular styles of session Irish tunes, so that's a huge chunk of the market you're not competing with. Plus a lot of iffy-but-playable 20bs have been made over the last 75 years or so, which can with a little poking be found rather cheap but usable for a beginner. No guarantees, but if you ask on the Classified section of Concertina Forum, with a nice clear title like "Noob wants really cheap 20b Anglo for sea chanteys and fiddle tunes", it's quite possible some kind soul will have a beater 1950s-1970s German or Italian box around $100 or less for you. I'd generally not advise gambling on buying a used 20b Hohner/Stagi/Bastari/Silvagni/Scholer/etc on eBay, because it'd suck if you risk your small budget and get an unplayable one. Ideally the people buying the beaters should be folks like me who buy a half-dozen in a year to use as beaters or loaners, and can risk getting the occasional dud. A lot of current players started out on such cheapies, and plenty of folks back in the day played boxes no worse. You can find under $200 in that category fine, but if you are really seriously drawn to 20b Anglo (either as your first or as a next upgrade) there are still great deals to be had on fully-refurbished vintage 20b Anglos. Like serious quality old-time instruments; you can get a basic 20b Lachenal (British made) from around the year 1900 for $400 or so from a few of the guys who buy old Victorian beaters cheap and clean them up.  Hope this gives you some rough idea overall. I see you're finding the initial thought of Anglo confusing, but if you get a chance to try one in person I think you'll swiftly realize how the in-out change isn't a complication, it makes harmonies incredibly easy (which is the point of the system). If you feel comfortable stating roughly what major city you're in the area of, we can recommend a store that carries concertinas. Alternately, Button Box rents concertinas for I want to say $50 or so for a few months, so if you're really not sure on style that might be a worthwhile expense to try out a decent CC box. In the meantime, much around on YouTube, especially clips of live players, and see what kind of music speaks to you; feel free to post any examples of "this is how I want to sound" if that helps clear it up. TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Dec 24, 2013 |
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Dec 24, 2013 00:36
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:Here's a few Anglo clips that I believe are the kind of music you're expressing interest in: Yup, that is exactly the sort of thing I am looking for there. From what you say that is the best for my price range as well. The closest major city to me is Knoxville, TN. The last instrument I played regularly was the oboe, but that was quite some time ago. I faff about on a recorder / tin whistle from time to time, but I'm looking for something more interesting. Also Monkey Island was amazing and I will definitely be learning that tune. Thanks for the help! Lallander fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Jan 5, 2014 |
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Dec 24, 2013 00:59
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Lallander posted:Yup, that is exactly the sort of thing I am looking for there. From what you say that is the best for my price range as well. The closest major city to me is Knoxville, TN. The last instrument I plaid regularly was the oboe, but that was quite some time ago. I faff about on a recorder / tin whistle from time to time, but I'm looking for something more interesting. No worries, glad to help. Knoxville doesn't put you particularly close to anything concertina-ish; only possible exception is there's one poster on CNet forum who lists himself as "Western North Carolina". Who knows, maybe he's within an hour of you, so if you're signing up for Concertinas.net forums anyway might want to shoot him a PM. But being you're in US generically, good deals can be found. Goons in this thread have generally been indifferent on actually joining other forums (uke goons in the other thread being an exception), but joining CNet and posting a "WTB" is your best bet. Again, just use a clear title, and in your post just mention enough that folks know you're familiar with the limitations of a cheap 20 but believe it suits your needs. Messing with winds gives you some background, but as a melodic-based person you want to make sure that you don't fall into the "trap" of just playing one-line melodies on concertina. It is so, so easy to harmonize on Anglo, but you see some novices on YouTube who just play literal melody lines, which is unduly sparse. I'd suggest starting out that it's better to err on the side of heavy harmony, and pare it down later. Note also that you can play just straight chords on concertina, and sing/hum/whistle the melody (or have a friend sing or play melody), which is ridiculously easy on concertina. With pretty much four different 2-3 button combinations you can accompany most songs in your basic key. I was actually doing this just an hour ago to back up a friend who's learning ukulele, so just by feeling around a moment I figured out which chords she was playing, rhythmically played the same chords along. This stuff is easier to show than write, so here's a really basic demo of how to finger out a basic chord progression on Anglo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZREXEWTK_U 
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Dec 24, 2013 03:08
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Dragas posted:Finally ordered a tinwhistle after lurking this thread for a while, a standard D. I'm also getting pretty tempted to try out the kantele as well (or the kanklės, as it were), try to play some traditional music that's actually my country's  So Lithuanian kanklės then? If you live in Lithuania, and/or speak the language, you might have a better shot at figuring out who makes them, but a couple of the Baltic zithers (I believe particularly the Lithuanian kankles and the Latvian kokles) are hard to find makers for. I mean, they're only slightly different from neighboring variants (and vary a bit within themselves) so any competent zither builder could probably replicate one for you, but my understanding is those two Baltic states are really low on living makers. There's an Estonian named Raivo Sildoja who makes several types of Baltic zithers, so I imagine he covers kankles: http://www.kannel.ee/ (the English version of his site isn't working, but the pics are good, or use gTranslate).  There are a number of different variants, both in terms of size/shape/strings and playing style. Personally, I tend to favor the fewer-string models for most folks, especially those with less music background, as it help to really focus down on the fundamentals. There's some good description of different schools of kankles on this site: http://kankles.mch.mii.lt/ Also worth reading is this (somewhat roughly-translated) article on the broader kantele family from Sweden to Siberia: http://kanteleenkielin.maanite.fi/2013/03/31/kindred-of-kantele-overview-in-english/ . Includes another awesome photos of the naresyuk Siberian lyre that a goon here is building a version of:  While on kanteles, I need to add another link to the OP, since there's a Finnish collective workshop making pretty affordable kanteles, with lots of neat options like sharping levers, and very affordable kantele kits: http://www.soitinrakentajatamf.fi/ Dragas, if you don't find exactly the kankles variant you want, at least for a starter you'd really be fine getting any Baltic zither that has a similar number of strings and tuning (and I think generally all the trad Baltic ones are tuned to just basic diatonic scales). That'd give you at least a starting point, and you could always hire someone to build a closer copy to the specific Lithuanian variant of your choice once you get more into it and know just what you want. The other options would be contacting a maker, sending them a photo of the type you want, and asking for a price quote (may not really be too pricey). Third, without too much effort you could just make one; here's a tutorial on building a really simple kantele, and you could modify this slightly to get something more Lithuanian-looking: http://yehar.com/blog/?p=2739 
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Dec 25, 2013 01:01
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I'm Lithuanian, yeah, and I should be able to get in touch with some actual kanklės players who would presumably know where to get a decently priced one. I'll probably get looking around after the holidays have died down. Would you say that I'd be better off with a 5~ string variant if my musical experience is about 4 months of (somewhat serious) guitar learnin' and about 8 years of (not very serious) recorder playing?
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Dec 25, 2013 02:50
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Just dropping by to say that I received a Feadog D tinwhistle in my stocking this morning!  I already screwed up by having my hands position opposite the included literature, either that or the guide has it backwards... ...but either way, music! (For those keeping score, that's five ukuleles and a tinwhistle because of this thread and the ukelele thread.)
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Dec 25, 2013 13:15
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Dragas posted:I'm Lithuanian, yeah, and I should be able to get in touch with some actual kanklės players who would presumably know where to get a decently priced one. I'll probably get looking around after the holidays have died down. Would you say that I'd be better off with a 5~ string variant if my musical experience is about 4 months of (somewhat serious) guitar learnin' and about 8 years of (not very serious) recorder playing? I've made a few rough examples of a simlar type (I'm the guy who's making the naresyuk) and for what it's worth it's easier to get a decent sound out of a 4-string, but a 5-string gives you a 'richer' sound. I'd recommend a 4-string personally, but if you see a 5-string one you like then go for it! Whilst we're on the subject of my Naresyuk/Tonkori, I've not been able to do much with the build as I've been swamped because of christmas, I should have more time shortly, so hopefully it'll be done soon.
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Dec 25, 2013 14:15
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