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Astro7x posted:No, but it wouldn't be the first time a game is announced at E3 once and then we never hear of it again. The most hilarious thing about this particular argument is that when Nintendo announced Xenoblade (as Monado: Beginning of the World), they spent a good long time before giving more information and that lead to a bunch of people freaking the gently caress out about them cancelling Monado. My personal favorite was when they annouced the Xenoblade and you had people freaking out that they cancelled Monado in favor of Xenoblade. It's more likely that something like SMTxFire Emblem was cancelled quietly than a game that is already well into production and which they continue to mention as coming out. They've mentioned it coming out in 2014 as recently as a few months ago. Unless they stop production on the Wii U entirely in that timeframe (unlikely) it's probably still coming out if just because they need to keep filling their game roster. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Dec 10, 2013 |
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Dec 10, 2013 21:26
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New article from Forbes. It May Be Time For Nintendo To Make Games, Not Consoles http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2013/12/10/it-may-be-time-for-nintendo-to-make-games-not-consoles/ quote:Its a little worrisome, writing this post. The opinion Im about to put forth is one that can get you laughed out of game journalism, and one few people in the industry will even entertain. Its the idea that Nintendo has lost their way when it comes to the home console game, and they should pivot to their obvious strength that has carried them through lackluster systems for more than a decade now, their incredible games. In short, the Wii U should be Nintendos last console, and they should start focusing on bringing their beloved stable of characters to as many households as humanly possible, across every competitor system from Microsoft to Sony to PC. I dont relish writing columns I know for a fact will get me mocked or insulted, yet here I am, and Ill attempt to explain this as rationally as I can.
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Dec 10, 2013 22:11
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Vintersorg posted:New article from Forbes. Contributor New article from some guy who lives in his mother's basement.
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Dec 10, 2013 22:12
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So you're just going to dismiss all his words? We're all pieces of poo poo here too but doesn't mean some words can't be of value.
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Dec 10, 2013 22:14
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Vintersorg posted:New article from Forbes. Just for the record, a companion piece was posted alongside this: "Why Nintendo needs to stay in the hardware business, regardless of the Wii U" http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2013/12/10/why-nintendo-needs-to-stay-in-the-hardware-business-regardless-of-the-wii-u/ Vintersorg posted:So you're just going to dismiss all his words? We're all pieces of poo poo here too but doesn't mean some words can't be of value. No, but you're going to cherrypick an article and not post the companion article exposing the opposite viewpoint posted on the same website on the same day.
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Dec 10, 2013 22:14
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I only just got linked to the article there. I wasn't aware of the "rules" regarding article linking.
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Dec 10, 2013 22:17
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Vintersorg posted:I only just got linked to the article there. I wasn't aware of the "rules" regarding article linking. Fair enough, sorry. I've been doing some stuff for work lately which involved people cherrypicking specific articles and it left me a little quick on the gun. I apologize.
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Dec 10, 2013 22:22
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I haven't looked at the first article linked, but I am not a fan of the 2nd article linked since all it seems to say is to make the 3DS into a console
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Dec 10, 2013 22:25
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Astro7x posted:Hahaha... you think VGX had a million viewers? Edit: Holy poo poo that wasn't even on Spike this year. My mistake. I kept seeing "SPIKE VGX AWARDS" and wow. That's wonderful. MassRafTer fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Dec 10, 2013 |
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Dec 10, 2013 22:29
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Yup, it was internet only. Even if you search "VGX" in YouTube and sort videos that have been uploaded since Saturday by views, the top video has 250K views and it's a rant about how they sucked. The next video has 168K views and it's about The Division gameplay. Most recent Nintendo Direct on YouTube: 190K Views. I have no idea how many people watched it live, but the same could be said of the Nitnendo Direct view counts too if we want to compare them since they are their own live stream.
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Dec 10, 2013 22:41
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blackguy32 posted:I haven't looked at the first article linked, but I am not a fan of the 2nd article linked since all it seems to say is to make the 3DS into a console The gist of the first article is that Nintendo has been surviving on the strength of its software offerings for arguably 3 generations now, in spite of and not because of its hardware, and so they should just focus on what they're good at.
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Dec 10, 2013 22:44
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I would be 100% happy with their mascots on other consoles, reaping the benefits of all that power available to them. Their own, in-house games are wonderful but not worth owning an entire console for.
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Dec 10, 2013 22:46
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Vintersorg posted:I would be 100% happy with their mascots on other consoles, reaping the benefits of all that power available to them. Their own, in-house games are wonderful but not worth owning an entire console for. I've said this before but: If Nintendo goes third party, they are not just going to keep making the same games they do but on all systems. Third party developers have pretty different requirements to remain profitable. That doesn't mean they would suddenly start making terrible games but they would certainly start trending towards the things that are more straightforwardly profitable like microtransactions and "mini"-DLC. (Both of which Japanese developers like Capcom and Namco have shown themselves happy to jump on.) You'd probably also see a further increase in profitable franchise milking, which Nintendo already does a lot of. It could still turn out for the best and still result in great games, but a switch to third party development would in no way just be "the same games but on Playstation" and I'd be rightly cautious of whatever their first third party release would be. (Almost certainly a NSMB game in the current climate.) ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Dec 10, 2013 |
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Dec 10, 2013 22:49
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Vintersorg posted:I would be 100% happy with their mascots on other consoles, reaping the benefits of all that power available to them. Their own, in-house games are wonderful but not worth owning an entire console for. They can barely figure out how to make HD games for the Wii U, they'd still be a generation behind when it comes to HD game development. All their IPs tend to also be cartoony rather than photo realistic anyway.
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Dec 10, 2013 22:55
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They could just insert MORE cartoony things!  But they could also take advantage of better processors for physics, textures, etc etc. Imagine the worlds they could create. It's not about the graphics. Imagine Nintendo making Pixar quality games.
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Dec 10, 2013 23:02
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Astro7x posted:They can barely figure out how to make HD games for the Wii U, they'd still be a generation behind when it comes to HD game development. All their IPs tend to also be cartoony rather than photo realistic anyway. What does this even mean?
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Dec 10, 2013 23:08
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Zack_Gochuck posted:What does this even mean? It means Nintendo is having trouble as it is making games with PS3/360 level graphics. Asking them to jump right up to PS4/Xbone graphics now would be hard to say the least. You also have to consider how stubborn Nintendo is to implement good online (or online PERIOD) into their games. If Nintendo had to work on Sony/Microsoft consoles, gamers would expect them to match the same level of online features every other third party dev does.
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Dec 10, 2013 23:17
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Zack_Gochuck posted:What does this even mean? Their argument is that whilst Nintendo could theoretically switch to developing for other consoles, they wouldn't be familiar enough with the hardware to necessarily put out the best games they could, at least for a while. And then that they don't need the extra horsepower as much as others due to the way their IPs tend to be stylised, rather than relying on looking 'realistic', allowing them to still look good despite the gap.
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Dec 10, 2013 23:19
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ImpAtom posted:I've said this before but: If Nintendo goes third party, they are not just going to keep making the same games they do but on all systems. Third party developers have pretty different requirements to remain profitable. That doesn't mean they would suddenly start making terrible games but they would certainly start trending towards the things that are more straightforwardly profitable like microtransactions and "mini"-DLC. (Both of which Japanese developers like Capcom and Namco have shown themselves happy to jump on.) You'd probably also see a further increase in profitable franchise milking, which Nintendo already does a lot of. At least they'd be making games for consoles sold in meaningful quantities.
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Dec 11, 2013 00:35
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Boiled Water posted:At least they'd be making games for consoles sold in meaningful quantities. That's fine if you're more interested in Nintendo continuing as a company above all else, but unless you're a die-hard fanboy or a Nintendo shareholder I can't imagine why you'd consider "they're making games that sell, regardless of actual quality" to be the best possible outcome. It isn't necessarily going to be negative and, as I said, could turn out well, but I can't imagine why anyone without actual money invested in the company would care about them succeeding on a pure profit level. Nintendo going third party is something that might happen but it isn't going to be as simple as "they just start putting out the same games but on the PS4." It could be for the worse. It could even be for the better if it forces them to really adopt and understand online play. However it's unlikely to be a simple or smooth switchover and it's likely to decrease the chance of already less popular and lower-selling franchises (like Star Fox and F-Zero) getting new games, especially because Nintendo would no longer have a handheld business to fall back on. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Dec 11, 2013 |
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Dec 11, 2013 00:38
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Astro Nut posted:Their argument is that whilst Nintendo could theoretically switch to developing for other consoles, they wouldn't be familiar enough with the hardware to necessarily put out the best games they could, at least for a while. And then that they don't need the extra horsepower as much as others due to the way their IPs tend to be stylised, rather than relying on looking 'realistic', allowing them to still look good despite the gap. You don't need significant optimization if you're not pushing the hardware to the limit. The fact that their games rely on stylized simplicity actually helps them make the transition to unfamiliar hardware, since they wouldn't be pushing it at all.
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Dec 11, 2013 00:44
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I don't think Nintendo is going to be leaving the hardware market any time soon with how well their handhelds do. I could see them exiting the console stage and making a handheld with more powerful hardware that can AirPlay/Super Gameboy cartridge adapter to the TV using the handheld as the controller.
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Dec 11, 2013 00:49
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Waterslide Industry Lobbyist posted:I don't think Nintendo is going to be leaving the hardware market any time soon with how well their handhelds do. The thing is that Nintendo can't do one but not the other. Sony is not going to allow Nintendo to publish on their system AND maintain a dedicated competitor to Sony's own handheld system, especially one that is currently outselling Sony's own system, and it's unlikely for a major Japanese company like Nintendo to go X-Box only, if just because they'd lose their home country sales (which, even at the worst, are a significant part of their sales.) They could remain just handheld but that's an unstable market at best at the moment.
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Dec 11, 2013 00:54
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ImpAtom posted:That's fine if you're more interested in Nintendo continuing as a company above all else, but unless you're a die-hard fanboy or a Nintendo shareholder I can't imagine why you'd consider "they're making games that sell, regardless of actual quality" to be the best possible outcome. It isn't necessarily going to be negative and, as I said, could turn out well, but I can't imagine why anyone without actual money invested in the company would care about them succeeding on a pure profit level. how can you possibly think that Nintendo making games on the PS4 would be anything but good? Why do you think they would need to change their games even one bit? Sony is massively pushing, I mean have a mascot at the nationally televised PS4 launch party massively pushing, Octodad, a game where you are a goddamn octopus and the whole game is you flailing wildly knocking poo poo over. Why do you think Sony would somehow make Nintendo of all companies change at all? Sony would also allow them to self publish, probably deliver them a truckload of free dev kits, and gently caress probably give them access to Cerny so that they could get up to speed. Have you really not read anything about how open Sony is to independent game development?
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Dec 11, 2013 01:11
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ImpAtom posted:That's fine if you're more interested in Nintendo continuing as a company above all else, but unless you're a die-hard fanboy or a Nintendo shareholder I can't imagine why you'd consider "they're making games that sell, regardless of actual quality" to be the best possible outcome. It isn't necessarily going to be negative and, as I said, could turn out well, but I can't imagine why anyone without actual money invested in the company would care about them succeeding on a pure profit level. I go back to this all the time, but gamers tend to consider the company doing the best to the one selling the most consoles and the most games. I have no idea what makes more money though... Would Nintendo be more profitable selling 1 Million copies of a game on the PS4, or 250,000 copies on the Wii U where they do't have to pay licensing while making licensing costs off others, and make money on accessories and all that stuff. I have no idea, and nobody really does. I'd like to think that some accountant somewhere has run the numbers and figured out if it would or wouldn't work to go 3rd party. It's kind of like... they can sell VC titles at $5 or $1, but they will never make 5x as many sales to justify lowering the price because a lot of people still buy them at $5. I'm assuming someone did the math on this poo poo.
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Dec 11, 2013 01:14
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I just tried to sell two Nintendo Game and Watch's from 1983 on ebay and didn't get a sniff with a starting price of $40. Definitive proof that Nintendo nostalgia is over. Well no but after someone on here saying they were worth $250 each I'm a bit bummed.
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Dec 11, 2013 01:17
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Astro7x posted:I go back to this all the time, but gamers tend to consider the company doing the best to the one selling the most consoles and the most games. I have no idea what makes more money though... Would Nintendo be more profitable selling 1 Million copies of a game on the PS4, or 250,000 copies on the Wii U where they do't have to pay licensing while making licensing costs off others, and make money on accessories and all that stuff. I have no idea, and nobody really does. I'd like to think that some accountant somewhere has run the numbers and figured out if it would or wouldn't work to go 3rd party. the new flagship Mario title IS BEING OUTSOLD BY KNACK. please read any time you begin to think Nintendo might not make as much money as a third party.
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Dec 11, 2013 01:19
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abagofcheetos posted:the new flagship Mario title IS BEING OUTSOLD BY KNACK. In the UK which I guess has never really been a big Nintendo country. We don't really have a good idea how Knack vs. Mario is doing in the US until thursday when NPD hits.
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Dec 11, 2013 01:20
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abagofcheetos posted:the new flagship Mario title IS BEING OUTSOLD BY KNACK. Probably because one of the Ofiiciaial PS4 PLAYSTAION SONY BUdnles is a knack bundle and people will literally buy any ps4 they can get their hands on.
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Dec 11, 2013 01:25
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abagofcheetos posted:how can you possibly think that Nintendo making games on the PS4 would be anything but good? Why do you think they would need to change their games even one bit? Because third party developers have different requirements to turn a profit than first party developers and HD development is rapidly becoming more expensive, more time consuming and more difficult to do. In order to compensate for this developers have to design their games in different ways and with different mindsets and often times they have to work within the confines of what Microsoft or Sony or Nintendo will allow them to do. abagofcheetos posted:Why do you think Sony would somehow make Nintendo of all companies change at all? Because Sony is Nintendo's direct competitor and it is in their best interest for Nintendo to no longer pose even the smallest threat to them. Nintendo is not independant game development. They are a major competitor on at least one of the fields Sony is trying to compete in. Sony is not being nice to independent developers because they ~love games so much.~ They are doing it because it's an easy way to attract talent and attention to their console and away from their competitors. Their entire E3 presentation was basically a big, long, dedicated gently caress You to Microsoft. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Dec 11, 2013 |
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Dec 11, 2013 01:25
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abagofcheetos posted:the new flagship Mario title IS BEING OUTSOLD BY KNACK. Knack also dropped in price by $20 at most retailers immediately because it was being reviewed so horribly. Once again, my question I didn't know the answer to is which one is making more money. It wouldn't surprise me if 3D World is making more money than Knack dispite it selling worse apparently, but nobody knows.
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Dec 11, 2013 01:26
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ImpAtom posted:Because third party developers have different requirements to turn a profit than first party developers and HD development is rapidly becoming more expensive, more time consuming and more difficult to do Nintendo doesn't have to go hog wild with HD development, why do you think they do? They can release games to SNES spec and they will sell. They can make games that look no better than Wii U games and they would be fine. Actually, it is probably much easier to program for the PS4 than the Wii U. and third party, the difference is not going to be huge. If tiny indie developers can make a profit on PS4 games, I think Nintendo might be able to manage it. edit: and yes, I know the whole handheld thing makes it sticky... I'm know that this could never happen without the handheld issue somehow being resolved, which I doubt it could be.
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Dec 11, 2013 01:28
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Nintendo might have to start developing their games in different ways and in different mindsets regardless of whether they are publishing on a competing platform. You know, so that people buy them.
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Dec 11, 2013 01:28
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abagofcheetos posted:If tiny indie developers can make a profit on PS4 games, I think Nintendo might be able to manage it. But is their profit coming from Dollars to Yen currency conversion? We need to know this to properly judge them.
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Dec 11, 2013 01:31
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abagofcheetos posted:Nintendo doesn't have to go hog wild with HD development, why do you think they do? They can release games to SNES spec and they will sell. They can make games that look no better than Wii U games and they would be fine. Actually, it is probably much easier to program for the PS4 than the Wii U. If Nintendo could release games to a SNES Spec and it would sell, the Wii U would be doing better than it is. Their IPs are still strong but they're clearly not strong enough to drive sales at a disadvantage as they were before. HD development is time consuming and expensive even if you don't go hog wild with it. Nintendo could certainly do it but like other developers they'd probably begin looking at how best to monetize their single game. abagofcheetos posted:and third party, the difference is not going to be huge. If tiny indie developers can make a profit on PS4 games, I think Nintendo might be able to manage it. Tiny indie developers can turn a profit because they are making extremely low budget games and getting sweetheart deals. Nintendo could also start doing extremely low budget games (or hey, mobile games) but this is another case where "I want Nintendo to survive" would outweigh everything else, which is a mindset I just can't understand unless you're a shareholder or fanboy. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Dec 11, 2013 |
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Dec 11, 2013 01:33
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Astro7x posted:But is their profit coming from Dollars to Yen currency conversion? We need to know this to properly judge them. Jesus christ how many excuses do you have
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Dec 11, 2013 01:33
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Also what is the assumption they'd want to drop their handhelds coming from? isn't the 3ds outselling the ds at this point wrt year to year sales
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Dec 11, 2013 01:37
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Stux posted:Also what is the assumption they'd want to drop their handhelds coming from? isn't the 3ds outselling the ds at this point wrt year to year sales They wouldn't. It is why this probably will never happen.
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Dec 11, 2013 01:40
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Stux posted:Also what is the assumption they'd want to drop their handhelds coming from? isn't the 3ds outselling the ds at this point wrt year to year sales If they go third party they would have to publish on Sony's Playstation 4. The Playstation 4 has a companion handheld, the Vita. Sony is strongly pushing Vita connectivity, cross-buy, remote play and other Vita features on their new console. Nintendo's 3DS is the single significant competitor the Vita has in terms of dedicated handheld gaming devices. Nintendo (as with most third party developers) would not have the option of not publishing on a Sony system unless Microsoft gave them am immense sweetheart deal AND they were willing to sacrifice the Japanese market, which is unlikely to happen. This is also why they can't really publish entirely on PC. (There isn't much of a Japanese PC gaming market.) So the end result is that either Sony would have to let a direct competitor publish on their system or they would push for Nintendo to drop out of the handheld market. Especially as they'd be in a position of strength, they'd have no reason not to do the latter, because it would be an entirely winning situation for them. (Especially if they could get Nintendo to start developing for the Vita or its successor as well!)
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Dec 11, 2013 01:41
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ImpAtom posted:If they go third party they would have to publish on Sony's Playstation 4. Wouldn't it be more likely that sony would want to take a piece of the DS pie, let them continue making them as "nintendeo handhelds" while taking a nice cut and finally having control of the handheld market? Even if they did get them to make a new vita, that doesn't mean it would suddenly sell like a DS. Obviously this is all what if but it seems more likely that sony are clever enough that they would keep hold of nintendo and the ds branding.
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Dec 11, 2013 01:45
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