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Loomer posted:If there's no listing of the lodge, there's a good chance that lodge is clandestine - which doesn't mean hidden, in this case. It means essentially 'not real masons'. The way to check would be to get in touch with the appropriate grand lodge yourself - which is also a viable way to file a complaint, btw, since it'll trickle down in a couple of weeks or months to the local lodge if its legit. Thanks for the info, but I was referring to my hometown, not the place I currently live and am having the issue at work.
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Dec 3, 2013 23:28
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Loomer posted:If there's no listing of the lodge, there's a good chance that lodge is clandestine - which doesn't mean hidden, in this case. It means essentially 'not real masons'. The way to check would be to get in touch with the appropriate grand lodge yourself - which is also a viable way to file a complaint, btw, since it'll trickle down in a couple of weeks or months to the local lodge if its legit. He's saying that the Lodge once existed but was run out of town. Now it's just a building with squares and compasses on it. There's no clandestine lodge, there's no lodge at all. Just a former lodge building.
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Dec 4, 2013 02:57
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Apprentice mason checking in. Too busy with life to help out much or participate. Some amazing people in the lodge though so seeing them is always nice.
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Dec 4, 2013 03:17
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Oh, right. This is why you don't post before you've had your coffee.
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Dec 4, 2013 03:18
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How are the relations between regular and irregular lodges generally? In my city three UGLE- and one GOdF-recognized lodge, the shriners and AMORC rosicruceans hold their meetings in the same building (and that building is not a public meeting hall - searching the address on Google Maps only gives those results). Is that a common occurrence? I must confess that the rosicruceans weird me out quite a bit.
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Dec 11, 2013 02:15
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Grim Up North posted:How are the relations between regular and irregular lodges generally? In my city three UGLE- and one GOdF-recognized lodge, the shriners and AMORC rosicruceans hold their meetings in the same building (and that building is not a public meeting hall - searching the address on Google Maps only gives those results). Is that a common occurrence? I must confess that the rosicruceans weird me out quite a bit. It definitely sounds an odd arrangement. Their relations should be "cordial but not Masonic." Regular and irregular lodges literally do not recognize one another as Masonic. A clandestine lodge member is not a Mason.
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Dec 11, 2013 02:32
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I'd love to visit a GODF lodge but yeah, the rules are pretty strict on that one.
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Dec 11, 2013 02:37
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I did my proficency for fellow craft and I will be raised on the 21st of this month. does that seem pretty fast to the rest of you? I was initiated in October, so three months to master mason. Having said that, anyone in the portland area want to come to my raising? it would be cool to meet and socialize with other Goonmasons. Magoons?
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Dec 11, 2013 04:04
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Colton posted:I did my proficency for fellow craft and I will be raised on the 21st of this month. does that seem pretty fast to the rest of you? I was initiated in October, so three months to master mason. I'm on the complete opposite side of the US from you, but damned if I didn't consider for just a moment dropping everything I had planned (including hosting a holiday party) to fly out there and see it happen. Raisings are one of the highlights of Masonry, for me, and it's always a pleasure to attend. Good luck, have fun!
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Dec 11, 2013 04:10
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One of my good friends just became Worshipful Master of the Federal Lodge #1 in DC. Just from what you guys say here, I understand that's a big deal. But what does it really mean?
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Dec 11, 2013 05:09
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Colton posted:I did my proficency for fellow craft and I will be raised on the 21st of this month. does that seem pretty fast to the rest of you? I was initiated in October, so three months to master mason. If you were a little bit north I could have done this. 
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Dec 11, 2013 06:26
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vortmax posted:One of my good friends just became Worshipful Master of the Federal Lodge #1 in DC. Just from what you guys say here, I understand that's a big deal. But what does it really mean? Basically your friend's fellow Masons decided that, for the year, your friend is the guy who leads the lodge.
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Dec 11, 2013 06:31
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Grim Up North posted:How are the relations between regular and irregular lodges generally? In my city three UGLE- and one GOdF-recognized lodge, the shriners and AMORC rosicruceans hold their meetings in the same building (and that building is not a public meeting hall - searching the address on Google Maps only gives those results). Is that a common occurrence? I must confess that the rosicruceans weird me out quite a bit. This may be my country origins showing, but that sounds quite thoroughly insane. We have two lodges that meet in our building but that's only because one had to sell their temple to a preschool due to lack of, well, dues paying members. A clandestine lodge sharing the building sounds quite strange and possibly actually against a regulation or two.
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Dec 11, 2013 10:37
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Loomer posted:This may be my country origins showing, but that sounds quite thoroughly insane. We have two lodges that meet in our building but that's only because one had to sell their temple to a preschool due to lack of, well, dues paying members. A clandestine lodge sharing the building sounds quite strange and possibly actually against a regulation or two. Well, the irregular one has an event open to outsiders in two months and one of the regular ones has one a month later. I might attend them and report back in a few months.
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Dec 11, 2013 16:11
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Interesting....the Widow's Son's have just been expelled from MA freemasonry. Edict just came in from GM that no MA mason may be a WS. Just got the email. I wonder what happened.
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Dec 12, 2013 20:12
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So the Widows' Sons is now an outlaw Masonic biker gang? Badass.
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Dec 12, 2013 21:26
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WAFFLEHOUND posted:So the Widows' Sons is now an outlaw Masonic biker gang? Badass. The website seems eerily quiet. Never even heard of them out west.
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Dec 12, 2013 21:45
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I am at a crossroads. I have been deeply considering, through my grandfather, joining the local lodge here in Tulsa, because I have a deep desire to find a group I can find a spiritual brotherhood with. I am someone who has always struggled with the idea of faith and a supreme power over my life, however, and I don't want to swear an oath unless I truly believe. I know that no one can answer my own questions for me, but I wanted to ask from others who were perhaps at a similar crossroads for advice. Is joining a brotherhood like the Masons something that helped find you spiritual fulfillment as much as general fraternity? And perhaps more importantly, do you feel that there needs to be some resolution before taking the first step, or is it better to experience and learn as you step into it?
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Dec 13, 2013 01:32
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I am a diest so everything lined up pretty good for me. I believe this isn't all an accident. Somebody started it all (God, sure why not)or the clockmaker)). Dying babies and war means he doesn't take an active roll in supporting one side or the other. My supplements will go unanswered. He helps those who help themselves after all. However their may be a judgement. I better be prepared and be the best person I can. I took the oath with a clear conscious.
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Dec 13, 2013 03:33
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as for me, I'm pagan so I believe in all sorts of gods, but it makes sense to me that each "god" is really just a small facet of some higher unknowable being, and the god archetypes are just our human minds trying to comprehend the uncomprehendable. I believe any oath I swear is binding, so my conscience is clear. I'm also married and believe that my wedding vows mean something and are also binding. whatever the hell is out there, people need to be less lovely to each other whether it's because there's some eternal reward in the afterlife or because life sucks enough as it is without all these assholes all over the place.
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Dec 13, 2013 03:45
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Juvenalian.Satyr posted:I am at a crossroads. I have been deeply considering, through my grandfather, joining the local lodge here in Tulsa, because I have a deep desire to find a group I can find a spiritual brotherhood with. I am someone who has always struggled with the idea of faith and a supreme power over my life, however, and I don't want to swear an oath unless I truly believe. My understanding is that generally discussions of religion and politics are frowned upon, or are forbidden. I'm not a mason so I don't actually know that though.
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Dec 13, 2013 03:47
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PrinceRandom posted:My understanding is that generally discussions of religion and politics are frowned upon, or are forbidden. I'm not a mason so I don't actually know that though. Forbidden. In Texas football often falls under the category of "religion" and is also banned.
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Dec 13, 2013 03:56
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WAFFLEHOUND posted:Forbidden. In Texas football often falls under the category of "religion" and is also banned. what? seriously you can't talk football at Lodge in TX?
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Dec 13, 2013 04:03
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lord1234 posted:what? seriously you can't talk football at Lodge in TX? Its probably not an official rule, more like a very stern suggestion I'd imagine. Masonry is about peace and harmony between brethren. If football or any other topic is that important to a given lodge/district/state, chances are it's off limits to minimize discord. Honestly, in VA, we've had one or two brothers take the post game ribbing a little too far during lodge meetings, and it kinda felt (to me at least) like it dampened the "kindred spirit" feel.
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Dec 13, 2013 04:09
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Read the thread, got interested, then remembered my last Pope really hated you guys and my current Pope hasn't had enough time to say anything about it. So I'll be sitting on the sidelines. Maybe I'll join up with the KofC and hang out with my Dad, though.
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Dec 14, 2013 22:44
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Thanks to everyone for the responses. It really helped me come to a decision, and I think I have a much better idea of what to expect, and what to get out of it, really.
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Dec 15, 2013 00:21
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Is Freemasonry as Enlightenment-based as it seems? Obviously the movement started in the Enlightenment but does it retain the destructive belief in absolutes that marked that period? As an over-educated post-structuralist bohemian twit, I was wondering whether modern Masonry engages with contemporary debates about ontological and moral relativism or whether it still sticks to the rigid ideas of natural law and inalienable human rights. I do believe in a Supreme Being and I've been considering joining for a couple of years now; this is probably the last thing making me hesitant.
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Dec 15, 2013 00:40
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Purple Prince posted:Is Freemasonry as Enlightenment-based as it seems? Obviously the movement started in the Enlightenment but does it retain the destructive belief in absolutes that marked that period? As an over-educated post-structuralist bohemian twit, I was wondering whether modern Masonry engages with contemporary debates about ontological and moral relativism or whether it still sticks to the rigid ideas of natural law and inalienable human rights. I think you are grossly overthinking it. It's mostly fundraisers involving food and booze with men from different parts of society with strict taboos on religion and politics(and sports in Texas apparently). Perhaps at the highest levels are their debates. Down low it's all about stuffing your face while giving to charity.
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Dec 15, 2013 00:56
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LingcodKilla posted:I think you are grossly overthinking it. It's mostly fundraisers involving food and booze with men from different parts of society with strict taboos on religion and politics(and sports in Texas apparently). Sadly I'm a philosophy student so it's in my nature to grossly overthink things at the expense of action and be more ineffectual than Hamlet. And my main reason for joining would be for spiritual and moral purposes. Exoteric religions don't satisfy me, so I'm exploring the esoteric and occult. Food, booze, and stuffing my face sounds great though.
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Dec 15, 2013 01:06
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Is it acceptable to discuss those matter out of lodge activities? Or would it still be improper?
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Dec 15, 2013 01:07
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Moral relativism is a weak philosophical position for the most part, it's fairly self defeating and generally unsatisfying for most people's intuitive sense of ethics. That said, for the most part Masonry remains steeped in enlightenment tradition, but I don't think you'd have much trouble based on your philosophical leanings.
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Dec 15, 2013 01:30
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JohnnyCanuck posted:Read the thread, got interested, then remembered my last Pope really hated you guys and my current Pope hasn't had enough time to say anything about it. So I'll be sitting on the sidelines. Knights of Columbus are as a general rule a pretty cool group so you'll probably enjoy it if you would enjoy Masonry at all.
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Dec 15, 2013 01:48
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Juvenalian.Satyr posted:Thanks to everyone for the responses. It really helped me come to a decision, and I think I have a much better idea of what to expect, and what to get out of it, really. I don't think that we were made from witless, hapless dust. So I believe it was a God of some sort. hailgod fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Dec 15, 2013 |
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Dec 15, 2013 05:04
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JohnnyCanuck posted:Read the thread, got interested, then remembered my last Pope really hated you guys and my current Pope hasn't had enough time to say anything about it. So I'll be sitting on the sidelines. I know hundreds of Catholic Freemasons.
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Dec 15, 2013 14:20
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Colonial Air Force posted:I know hundreds of Catholic Freemasons. Well, then they are all bad catholics and excommunicated for it.
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Dec 15, 2013 15:18
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Colonial Air Force posted:I know hundreds of Catholic Freemasons. Yeah, but for a while the official Catholic party line was that belonging to Freemasonry was (I believe) an excommunicatable offense. Hence the creation of the K of C. Now, that's an old edict, and I'm sure it's enforced at different strength in different regions, but I don't recall that decision ever being reversed or even really addressed afterwards, so if you're a real rules follower in an area where strict Catholicism is the primary MO (Central/South America?) it could be a thing. Of course, I'm not Catholic, I'm just going off what I recall hearing about this, so I could be full of poo poo.
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Dec 15, 2013 15:20
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Yeah, back when Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI was still just Cardinal quote:"The faithful who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion...." quote:"...the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic association(s) remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden." So no Masonry for me!
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Dec 15, 2013 23:02
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Why is Masonry such an un-Catholic activity? Is it because it came about primarily in Protestant places?
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Dec 15, 2013 23:06
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PrinceRandom posted:Why is Masonry such an un-Catholic activity? Is it because it came about primarily in Protestant places? Largely because they allow all faiths.
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Dec 15, 2013 23:14
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PrinceRandom posted:Why is Masonry such an un-Catholic activity? Is it because it came about primarily in Protestant places? It's not actually un-Catholic, in reality. We're fine with Catholics and in fact when I visited several Lodges in Ireland the most of the brethren were Catholic, albeit of that typically Irish "we're Catholic, sure, but who cares what the Vatican says?" variety. The first ban of Masonry by Catholics came in 1738, under the grounds that because Masonry was an organization which did not conduct its activities publicly, it clearly is criminal. They further noted that because members take oaths that are neither civil nor religious in nature, no Mason could be loyal to church or government. Later, in 1884, in Humanum Genus, Pope Leo XIII declared outright that Freemasonry belonged to "the City of Man," ruled by Satan, as opposed to the "City of God" ruled by Jesus Christ. His justification for this claim was that Freemasons had been prominent members in a series of Enlightenment era independence movements. Humanum Genus makes clear the stance of the Church at the time that Enlightenment era ideals such as "natural rights" and especially the right to self-determination were not real rights, and the Church's condemnation of public education outside of the control of the Church. It also attacked Freemasonry for advocating that the right of leaders and governments derived from the people, rather than from the Church. Basically, the Church had just recently lost Italy and witnessed several other revolutionary advances, and scapegoated Masons. It has not yet made right these decrees. Ratzinger made a point to clarify that joining in Freemasonry results in a state of "grave sin" which cannot be fixed without reconciliation and renouncing the Masonic oaths. This is actually an improvement, as previously it taking Masonic oaths resulted in "latae sententiae" excommunication, or a sort of automatic excommunication that required no action on the part of the Church. While the modern Church is much less offensive and the rest of the world has caught up to Masonry in terms of general concepts of equality and modern thinking, the Church simply doesn't have much to gain from reversing a largely ignored piece of information that is already trivial for most Catholics. Paramemetic fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Dec 15, 2013 |
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Dec 15, 2013 23:26
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