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Sleep of Bronze posted:Pen and paper Druid are doing crazy hierarchical things from 12 onwards which is part of the explanation for their loopy XP tables. They're technically only even 'initiates' until 12th, when they get the full Druid title. You can see a remnant of this in BG2's rule that you can't challenge for rule of a Druid grove until 14th. Which is a bit of a comedown from 'you can now challenge for Druidic rule of the continent' which you originally got at 14th. Then at 15th you are Druid ruler of the entire goddam world, then at 16th you lose all your XP but keep your abilities and start levelling up again as a Hierophant Druid and ... 2e Druids were really loving weird and complicated, OK? Fun if you were into them but crazy as poo poo. Wait what I don't remember this part 
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Dec 10, 2013 19:12
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Yeeeep. Druid XP table for 2e: 9: 90,000 10: 125,000 11: 200,000 12: 300,000 13: 750,000 14: 1,500,000 15: 3,000,000 16: 3,500,000 [having done this you lose your XP] 17: 500,000 18: 1,000,000 19: 1,500,000 20: 2,000,000
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Dec 10, 2013 19:24
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Speaking as someone playing a Berserker/Druid, even without using Scimitars (used Spears/Quarterstaffs instead) or levelling up quickly (used Druid levels=Cleric levels from the tweak pack), my PC is still absurdly strong and probably the best PC I've used (previous PCs included Monk, Cleric of Lathander, Barbarian and Cavalier). With the Impaler, a weapon I've never used before, and spear grandmastery, he gets d6+13 damage with 4 attacks/round, plus ironskins/armour of faith, plus insects/nature's beauty plus heals. At the end of the day, something like a Kensai/Mage is probably better in terms of pure damage/buffs, but using the shadow dragon armour plus helm of defence etc. makes the B/C pretty drat hard to hit even when his buffs get taken down. P.S., making Viconia into a fighter/cleric multi and hexxat into a thief/mage multi means I can have a very strong and diverse party with just my PC/Viccy/the new NPCs. Also lets me use viconia finally, which I'm happy about.
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Dec 10, 2013 19:43
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Stumiester posted:Speaking as someone playing a Berserker/Druid, even without using Scimitars (used Spears/Quarterstaffs instead) or levelling up quickly (used Druid levels=Cleric levels from the tweak pack), my PC is still absurdly strong and probably the best PC I've used (previous PCs included Monk, Cleric of Lathander, Barbarian and Cavalier). With the Impaler, a weapon I've never used before, and spear grandmastery, he gets d6+13 damage with 4 attacks/round, plus ironskins/armour of faith, plus insects/nature's beauty plus heals. Meh, I kind of liked that Viconia wasn't very strong and didn't have a high con... it made her into a good pure caster cleric and she was a pretty good slinger with her high dex. Mind you, clerics get good HP no matter what, but I felt that it set her apart from other more "tanky" clerics. Mind you, I'd like her a drat site more if pure clerics could get more attacks like in 3rd edition+ and could use crossbows. "No piercing/slashing weapons" my hairy arse... is there a mod for that? Every time I play the BG games the only person I ever have using crossbows is good old mental Jan, for obvious reasons.
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Dec 10, 2013 20:30
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The only part of playing Zerk/Druid is that Zerker Rage is really, really, REALLY strong for all of BG. It's pretty much CC immunity to some of the stupidest bullshit in the game, including imprisonment if I recall correctly.
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Dec 10, 2013 20:35
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Ok now I want my off tank to be a Fighter/Druid in my IWD game. What would be the best build, armor and weapon for that? I suck at D&D compared to you guys.
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Dec 10, 2013 21:37
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Another powergaming aspect to Druids that people miss is that High Level abilities start accruing for all classes at 3 million XP, rather than at a particular level. And Druids have the fastest initial level progression after 3 million xp of any class by a wide margin. The first 7 levels (and thus the first 7 HLAs) accrue in just 900k xp for druids. Most other classes get only 4 levels during that stretch. An since Druids jump to 6 spells per day for all levels including spell level 7 at level 15 they get more use out of their HLA spells than any other class.
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Dec 11, 2013 01:21
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amanasleep posted:Another powergaming aspect to Druids that people miss is that High Level abilities start accruing for all classes at 3 million XP, rather than at a particular level. And Druids have the fastest initial level progression after 3 million xp of any class by a wide margin. The first 7 levels (and thus the first 7 HLAs) accrue in just 900k xp for druids. Most other classes get only 4 levels during that stretch. An since Druids jump to 6 spells per day for all levels including spell level 7 at level 15 they get more use out of their HLA spells than any other class. On the other hand, Druids don't care about HLAs after the first two. 
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Dec 11, 2013 01:23
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amanasleep posted:Another powergaming aspect to Druids that people miss is that High Level abilities start accruing for all classes at 3 million XP, rather than at a particular level. And Druids have the fastest initial level progression after 3 million xp of any class by a wide margin. The first 7 levels (and thus the first 7 HLAs) accrue in just 900k xp for druids. Most other classes get only 4 levels during that stretch. An since Druids jump to 6 spells per day for all levels including spell level 7 at level 15 they get more use out of their HLA spells than any other class. Captain Oblivious posted:On the other hand, Druids don't care about HLAs after the first two. And that, messieurs, is called game balance!
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Dec 11, 2013 01:47
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Well, if you're a multiclass, won't you start getting access to the HLAs of the other class at the same time? That's quite a few hardinesses you could pick up.
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Dec 11, 2013 01:48
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Captain Oblivious posted:On the other hand, Druids don't care about HLAs after the first two. Are you serious? That's not even slightly true.
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Dec 11, 2013 02:26
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I was googling info about the new characters in the Enhanced Edition and bumped into a couple of threads on the official BG2:EE forum, including one about the Hexxat romance. Holy poo poo I had kind of assumed that people willing to pay $25 to play a remake of a dense 10 year old RPG would be slightly more mature and intelligent than other game communities, but that assumption was swiftly proven false.
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Dec 11, 2013 02:40
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To be fair, they're official forums, and official forums are always poo poo.
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Dec 11, 2013 02:41
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Adam Bowen posted:I was googling info about the new characters in the Enhanced Edition and bumped into a couple of threads on the official BG2:EE forum, including one about the Hexxat romance. Holy poo poo Your also dealing with the combined might of the creepy dnd people and the creepy videogame people. Thats the true shitstorm you can witness.
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Dec 11, 2013 02:43
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I used to have an older, print version of a game guide for Tales of the Sword Coast - this one here - and one of the things I remember being printed in it was the type of (fireball, lightning, arrow, etc.) and skill needed to disarm a particular trap, and whether the trap was repeating or not. Does anyone know of a guide that has that information about traps for the first game?
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Dec 11, 2013 04:21
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God help me for doing so, but I had to cross post this from the pyf meme thread in case anyone wants to create a new nightmare-fuel portrait for Edwin.
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Dec 11, 2013 08:08
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Dillbag posted:God help me for doing so, but I had to cross post this from the pyf meme thread in case anyone wants to create a new nightmare-fuel portrait for Edwin. Is it green clouds or red fireballs? [Audience shows lots of red fireballs] Ooh - it's a green clouds day! Skellybones fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Dec 11, 2013 |
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Dec 11, 2013 08:52
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Sleep of Bronze posted:Pen and paper Druid are doing crazy hierarchical things from 12 onwards which is part of the explanation for their loopy XP tables. They're technically only even 'initiates' until 12th, when they get the full Druid title. You can see a remnant of this in BG2's rule that you can't challenge for rule of a Druid grove until 14th. Which is a bit of a comedown from 'you can now challenge for Druidic rule of the continent' which you originally got at 14th. Then at 15th you are Druid ruler of the entire goddam world, then at 16th you lose all your XP but keep your abilities and start levelling up again as a Hierophant Druid and ... 2e Druids were really loving weird and complicated, OK? Fun if you were into them but crazy as poo poo. To be fair here, Druid was actually an example cleric build. The PHB actually encouraged DM's to look at this as a sort of inspiration for making other cleric special classes, with the focus around their "thing" and spheres governing the spells they should have access to with extra abilities around their character and sort of balance things by making a weirder experience table. Sort of like specialist mages, only illusionist is mentioned by name and written out in depth for how it behaves. For some reason though, 2nd edition D&D seemed convinced that Illusion was the most broken school of magic and the most difficult to roleplay, so they had several pages devoted to explaining illusion. Also, everything was really centered around 4 classes, warrior, wizard, priest and rogue. It seemed like it intended itself to be extremely modular with this setup, but I think at the time people were just following what was written because it was most convenient. I have little doubt that is what lead to prestige classes for 3rd edition, an attempt to break people from that mindset; though the effect it actually had was that people bought sourcebooks to throw at their DM's as a "see, it exists and is perfectly balanced" catch-all. PnP can be the worst hobby for the worst kind of people, but it has the potential to be a lot of fun with just a little big of imagination.
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Dec 11, 2013 09:10
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It's my shameful secret that I've never played a Baldur's Gate game despite having both of them sitting in my GOG library for two years now. Icewind Dale alone sucked up so much of life in highschool that I wary about taking the plunge with this series now that I'm an adult with actual responsibilities. But reading up on Pillars of Eternity has me jonesing for an Infinity Engine game, so I'll be diving in this weekend. I'm going in pretty much blind, but are there any patches, necessary mods, or major issues I should be aware of before I start?
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Dec 11, 2013 15:22
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Zoe posted:But reading up on Pillars of Eternity has me jonesing for an Infinity Engine game, so I'll be diving in this weekend. I'm going in pretty much blind, but are there any patches, necessary mods, or major issues I should be aware of before I start? Here's a pretty good guide for modding the Baldur's Gate games if you want to play them in order. If you skip the optional stuff you end up with BG 1 and 2 fused together into one big game. This is mostly nice because it puts BG1 into BG2's engine which is better in basically every way. Emong fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Dec 11, 2013 |
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Dec 11, 2013 15:31
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Although if you're playing BGEE then the base game is fine.
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Dec 11, 2013 15:37
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amanasleep posted:Are you serious? That's not even slightly true. It is incredibly true. Aside from Greater Elemental Summoning, there isn't a whole lot to write home about on the Druid HLA list.
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Dec 11, 2013 15:40
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Piell posted:Although if you're playing BGEE then the base game is fine. Adding some Tweak Pack stuff might be nice for EE, but that's really more of a convenience thing, or for people who know the game and rules really well already.
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Dec 11, 2013 15:49
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Emong posted:Here's a pretty good guide for modding the Baldur's Gate games if you want to play them in order. If you skip the optional stuff you end up with BG 1 and 2 fused together into one big game. Bookmarked, thanks. I don't think I have the Enhanced version...the one on GOG is just called the Original Saga, though it does include the Tales of the Sword Coast expansion. edit: Just realized the BG page on GOG actually includes a link to an identical modding guide that I somehow completely failed to notice. I reed gud 
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Dec 11, 2013 16:20
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Are there some hidden rules about summoning creatures? I know that you can only summon 5 of them but it seems you can't summon for example 2 Devas at the same time? I also received the message that I can't summon any more creatures when I only had 1 Deva and 1 Planetar summoned, why is that? Can a character only use 1 summon spell at a time or something?
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Dec 11, 2013 16:22
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Zoe posted:Bookmarked, thanks. Welcome! And yeah, GOG doesn't sell the Enhanced Editions, those are on Steam.
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Dec 11, 2013 16:23
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TjyvTompa posted:Are there some hidden rules about summoning creatures? I know that you can only summon 5 of them but it seems you can't summon for example 2 Devas at the same time? I also received the message that I can't summon any more creatures when I only had 1 Deva and 1 Planetar summoned, why is that? Can a character only use 1 summon spell at a time or something?
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Dec 11, 2013 16:26
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Captain Oblivious posted:It is incredibly true. Aside from Greater Elemental Summoning, there isn't a whole lot to write home about on the Druid HLA list. You mean that are specific to Druids? Sure, the Greater Elemental Transformations are not too great, especially for multi or dual classes, but they are a solid melee upgrade for single class and they can be taken multiple times unlike the spells so you have something to select after you have filled up on the other choices. However, they also get all of the HLA spells on the cleric list, and most of these are quite good. And because they have 6 7th level spell slots instead of 2 or 3 they can get more mileage from them than a Cleric can.
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Dec 11, 2013 17:31
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amanasleep posted:You mean that are specific to Druids? Sure, the Greater Elemental Transformations are not too great, especially for multi or dual classes, but they are a solid melee upgrade for single class and they can be taken multiple times unlike the spells so you have something to select after you have filled up on the other choices. I struggle to think of any that are worth the opportunity cost of simply memorizing more Greater Elemental Summoning. As for single class Druids...I can't think of a compelling reason to ever play a single class Druid.
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Dec 11, 2013 17:33
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Alright so, here's a question for the thread. I'm thinking of co-opping this game with a buddy. Between the fact that the buddy is rolling an Inquisitor and we plan to take Imoen, I think we'll have dispelling and protection removal handled. So if I were to play a CC/Explosion Bot Sorcerer, what spells do you recommend for 7th level and up? I'm not overly familiar with Sorcerer but not memorizing spells all the time and just focusing on the more entertaining bits sounds like fun. Also there's so many good 7th level spells and up that it's hard to choose at those levels 
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Dec 11, 2013 20:38
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Level 7 (in order from most vital to least vital): Project Image, Mordenkainen's Sword, Ruby Ray of Reversal (if using SCS), Limited Wish, Power Word: Stun, Spell Sequencer, Mass Invisibility, Spell Turning, Ruby Ray of Reversal (no SCS), Delayed Blast Fireball Level 8: Abi Dalzim's Horrid Wilting, Power Word: Blind, Spell Trigger, Simulacrum, Pierce Shield (replaces Ruby Ray if you can afford to wait), Bigby's Clenched Fist Level 9 (non HLAs): Time Stop, Chain Contingency, Shapechange, Wish, Spell Trap, Spellstrike, Black Blade of Disaster (gets bumped up to above Spell Trap if you have a fix for the Grand Mastery effect) HLAs: Improved Alacrity, Summon Planetar, Dragon's Breath, Energy Blades, Scribe 6/7/8
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Dec 11, 2013 20:55
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Am I missing something about BBoD that would make Grand Mastery relevant to a Sorcerer, I thought BBoD was merely treated as Proficient Edit: Nevermind, the spell reference I was reading was wrong.
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Dec 11, 2013 21:01
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Captain Oblivious posted:Alright so, here's a question for the thread. Must haves in my opinion: 7th level - Project Image, Spell Sequencer, Mordenkainen's sword 8th level - Abi-dalzim's Horrid Wilting, Power-word Blind, Spell Trigger 9th level - Chain contingency, Time stop Good, but not essential: 7th level - Delayed Blast Fireball, Limited Wish, Mass Invisibility, Power Word Stun, Ruby Ray of Reversal, Spell Turning 8th level - Bigby's Clenched Fist, Incindiary Cloud, Pierce Shield, Simulacrum, Symbol-Stun 9th level - Absolute Immunity, Imprisonment, Spell Strike, Wail of the Banshee, Wish Keep in mind that I am stating the removal spells as non-essential primarily because you said you would have an Inquisitor in your party. With that kind of dispel available, poo poo like Ruby-Ray and Pierce Shield are mostly a waste of time. flowinprose fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Dec 11, 2013 |
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Dec 11, 2013 21:11
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Captain Oblivious posted:I struggle to think of any that are worth the opportunity cost of simply memorizing more Greater Elemental Summoning. Since you can only have one Elemental Prince at a time, it can be pretty useful to have a Deva to back him up. Implosion is also useful since it holds enemies without a save and does very decent damage. If you are a F/D and you're going to do melee, Globe of Blades and Aura of Flaming Death can do a lot of damage. quote:As for single class Druids...I can't think of a compelling reason to ever play a single class Druid. Challenge, mainly, or for the kits. Avenger Druid is very cool and fun to play. But even Fighter->Druid Dual class and multis can benefit from the Elemental Transformations, since it gives you +10 Thac0 or so if you get it early and the Fists count as +4 weapons. You will likely lose attacks (unless single class) but you will hit more and do more damage.
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Dec 11, 2013 21:21
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JustJeff88 posted:Meh, I kind of liked that Viconia wasn't very strong and didn't have a high con... it made her into a good pure caster cleric and she was a pretty good slinger with her high dex. Mind you, clerics get good HP no matter what, but I felt that it set her apart from other more "tanky" clerics. Mind you, I'd like her a drat site more if pure clerics could get more attacks like in 3rd edition+ and could use crossbows. Psh, Viconia was also known in my games by her other name 'she-who-gets-strength-item'
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Dec 12, 2013 00:19
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oswald ownenstein posted:Psh, Viconia was also known in my games by her other name 'she-who-gets-strength-item' But his delicate and petite drow female  High level, fully buffed Viconia toting 25 strength and two loving hammers is a thing of beauty.
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Dec 12, 2013 00:31
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I'm pretty much done with all of the sidequest content in Act 3 of BG2, and since I'm trying to play through Bhodi's quests for the first time, I'm doing everything as evil as possible. For her second quest, you're supposed to kill some dude and leave a cloak and a dagger in his fountain, but I kind of did a bunch of poo poo before coming back around to kill the guy, and I have no extra cloaks or daggers in my inventory. My guess is I sold or tossed them accidentally without realizing what they were. Does anyone know what kind of specific cloak and dagger she gives you for this quest so I can use EEKeeper to put them in my inventory? DSimpson's guide, which is usually extremely specific, is strangely quiet about the actual item codes for the cloak and dagger she hands to you. EDIT: Looks like it's just called Shadowthief Cloak/Dagger in EEKeeper. I seriously do not ever remember having these things in my inventory after talking to her to get the quest in the first place. Freaking Crumbum fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Dec 12, 2013 |
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Dec 12, 2013 00:31
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oswald ownenstein posted:Psh, Viconia was also known in my games by her other name 'she-who-gets-strength-item' It's kind of amazing how powerful gauntlets of ogre power and giant strength belts are, you can turn basically any non-mage from zero to frontline hero with them. AD&D was broken as poo poo and I always go back and forth about whether it was awesome or stupid. Maybe it's both.
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Dec 12, 2013 00:33
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So, what's the Charisma requirement to keep Viconia/Keldorn from fighting? I remember when I last played I had both of them in my part from intro to the end of ToB with no conflicts, but then again I think I had something like 25 Charisma by the end of that game. Also is there any way to get her to not leave at 19 Rep? I assume I'll have to use a mod, so is there a mod that works with the EE?
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Dec 12, 2013 00:50
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Rookersh posted:So, what's the Charisma requirement to keep Viconia/Keldorn from fighting? I remember when I last played I had both of them in my part from intro to the end of ToB with no conflicts, but then again I think I had something like 25 Charisma by the end of that game. The "NPCs complain but don't leave" and "NPCs don't fight" components of the Gibberings 3 tweak pack seem to work, but be very careful what additional components you install. Many of the item and proficiencies tweaks don't function as intended with the enhanced edition. You can end up with broken dialogs and item descriptions replaced with journal entries. I'm running with only the 2 NPC tweaks, unlimited stacking potions/arrows/scrolls/etc., and max HP on level up and I haven't run into any problems.
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Dec 12, 2013 01:24
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