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User0015 posted:Mind you, he was also the fastest person in the game to the point the game rewarded him with a super special skill only he could use. Hurray. I still watched it though. With this author we may be just working up to another treatise on how loving awesome potatoes are.
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Dec 12, 2013 02:34
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Phobophilia posted:I can get behind that. It scratches my "recreate civilization in thy own image" itch. Ok, show of hands, how many of us play stuff like Civ5 and 4x games in general? *raises hand*
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Dec 12, 2013 02:36
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I'm not sure if the main plot has even appeared yet in the books. If so, it has been subtle. It isn't clear if they are ever going to get back to earth, so that goal may or may not be the main plot. If given a choice, there are a lot of upsides to staying unlike in SWO.
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Dec 12, 2013 02:43
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:Ok, show of hands, how many of us play stuff like Civ5 and 4x games in general? *raises hand* Well, I quoted SMAC on the other page, and I'm really into Paradox games, so wellp, stand up and testify!  Hmm. I never gave that Demon Queen manga a try-- isn't it based on a light novel by the same guy? If I like Log Horizon I am guessing I'll like that too.
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Dec 12, 2013 03:23
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DrSunshine posted:Well, I quoted SMAC on the other page, and I'm really into Paradox games, so wellp, stand up and testify! You might like it, it's got all sorts of spergy economics type stuff, just be aware that there is a ton of fan service.
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Dec 12, 2013 03:28
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DrSunshine posted:Hmm. I never gave that Demon Queen manga a try-- isn't it based on a light novel by the same guy? If I like Log Horizon I am guessing I'll like that too.
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Dec 12, 2013 04:47
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Phobophilia posted:Considering Shiroe is a 20-something grad student who spends all his free time holed up in his room playing videogames, who goes and does cool poo poo in a fantasy world and has multiple hot girls fawning over him (one of these is a little girl who is totally 20, I swear), I think this is just as much of a power fantasy for nerds. Maybe you're being hyperbolic, but I don't know what you're referring to with "multiple hot girls fawning over him". I understand you calling out Akatsuki, since she is kind of an unfortunate combination of "romantically interested in the male protagonist", "small and cute", and "height misrepresents age" that is hard to swallow where each trait is increasingly more unlikely. But who are the others? Plus there's other bullshit justifications to this like every girl is some idealized beauty because video game visual designs but that invites criticism of the general industry. I would not dispute this being nerd power fantasy (the premise that we're following the actions of a high-level character around in a video game is pretty much defined by "nerd power fantasy" because that's what these games are designed for)
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Dec 12, 2013 05:43
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The idea that skilled and knowledgeable high level players in a MMO would be respected is definitely a nerd power fantasy. However, that isn't very similar to the usual LN Gary Stu protagonists who are generally impossible to identify with. Shiroe was an antisocial nerd who was good at the original game, but his real talent lies in lateral thinking. The building purchase thing was something he discovered via checking menus which every other adventurer had access to.
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Dec 12, 2013 06:27
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It's not that big a stretch for a power fantasy really, aside from Akatsuki(I understand cute girlfriend is more or less standard for stuff like this). Shiroe is more known than actually famous until he blackmailed the city into having some goddamned law and order, and then mainly as part of his old group of crazy players. He doesn't stand out much and seems to just go around forming pickup parties to mess around, or helping newbies he runs across. Given how long he's been active playing the game, and also how Debauchery Tea Party likes to take on difficult new content with an undersized group of players, it seems fairly normal. Once he blackmails the whole city into being good now, he's probably infamous. AVeryLargeRadish posted:Ok, show of hands, how many of us play stuff like Civ5 and 4x games in general? *raises hand* SMAC, Civ3/4/5, etc, yes.
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Dec 12, 2013 09:15
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His reputation, and DTP, seems a little like Goonswarm's in the sense that it seems to pervade players even to a degree where they barely even interacted. I think Shiroe is pretty low on the "Improbably Good Protagonist" scale, although if one of his plans falls through at some point he'll be a much better character. His own self-admitted flaws atleast make him better then Kirito, who might as well of had a stamp on his head reading "I AM A PROTAGONIST, HEAR ME ROAR". I do enjoy strategy and 4x games, although Paradox titles always kinda scared me away due to not really understanding how to play them from a strategic point of view (I constantly get my rear end handed 7 kinds of way to me in CK2)
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Dec 12, 2013 11:58
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When it comes to LN Gary Stu's, it might horrify some of you to know that Kirito is around the middle of the scale. There are much worse (and unintentionally hilarious) examples.
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Dec 12, 2013 12:02
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Kirito goes with a black color theme and uses two named swords. That puts him halfway up on it's own.
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Dec 12, 2013 12:09
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veekie posted:Kirito goes with a black color theme and uses two named swords. That puts him halfway up on it's own. Just out of curiosity, where does Harry Potter score (what with his dead family, family abuse history and being "the chosen one")?
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Dec 12, 2013 13:28
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Serious Frolicking posted:The idea that skilled and knowledgeable high level players in a MMO would be respected is definitely a nerd power fantasy. However, that isn't very similar to the usual LN Gary Stu protagonists who are generally impossible to identify with. Its funny that we went from people fawning over the main character(SAO) being a nerd power fantasy to being a high level character that knows how to play game(WOWWOW) being a nerd power fantasy. The funny thing being they are both 100% accurate in calling them nerd power fantasy. The main reason SAO just rubbed me the wrong way was pretty much the introduction of the exclusive skill and the last battle being determined by  BURNING SHONEN SPIRIT(spoilered just in case I guess) moreso than the fawning. But if a third season is announced after the New Years SAO Swimsuit Special i'll probably watch since goons swore up and down the third and fourth arcs hit their stride. That aside, LH is just taking all of this genre a different direction and i'm enjoying it still. I just wonder if there will be a break between seasons since it isn't on Zorak's winter 2013/2014 list.
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Dec 12, 2013 14:35
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Alpha Kenny Juan posted:That aside, LH is just taking all of this genre a different direction and i'm enjoying it still. I just wonder if there will be a break between seasons since it isn't on Zorak's winter 2013/2014 list. Not 100%, but pretty sure that series that are ongoing don't get put in his list, hence why Kill La Kill is also missing from his list, despite being two cours like Log Horizon.
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Dec 12, 2013 14:53
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Alpha Kenny Juan posted:Its funny that we went from people fawning over the main character(SAO) being a nerd power fantasy to being a high level character that knows how to play game(WOWWOW) being a nerd power fantasy. The funny thing being they are both 100% accurate in calling them nerd power fantasy. It was kind of interesting seeing the "stuck in an MMO" thing again since it had been years between SAO and .Hack. And SAO was actually sort of interesting, and things happened, and the plot moved forward at greater than the speed of thermodynamic equilibrium. It also didn't feel incredibly exploitative or harem-y and Asuna seemed like an able enough character in her own right for at least a little while. But yeah, it went to poo poo kind of early on and the second arc was terrible. I don't think you'll care for the third arc all that much since it's pretty much Kirito's powergamer bullshit set to 11, along with a new female protagonist who's even more dependent than Asuna in the previous arc. Setting is a nice change of pace though! Anywho, yeah, while LH is still sort of a nerd power fantasy it's fun to see a lead character who's a lot more relatable than a 13 year old messiah. Definitely wouldn't mind seeing some of his plans fall through or other unexpected issues crop up as a result of his decisions, but I can't complain too much with what we've gotten so far. Although I kinda feel like the Round Table discussion/reveal stuff dragged a bit longer than necessary. This shift to the People of the Land could be interesting.
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Dec 12, 2013 15:20
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Serious Frolicking posted:When it comes to LN Gary Stu's, it might horrify some of you to know that Kirito is around the middle of the scale. There are much worse (and unintentionally hilarious) examples. Got any good examples of the top-flight ones? I'm kind of morbidly curious now.
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Dec 12, 2013 15:24
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Yasser Arafatwa posted:It was kind of interesting seeing the "stuck in an MMO" thing again since it had been years between SAO and .Hack. And SAO was actually sort of interesting, and things happened, and the plot moved forward at greater than the speed of thermodynamic equilibrium. It also didn't feel incredibly exploitative or harem-y and Asuna seemed like an able enough character in her own right for at least a little while. But yeah, it went to poo poo kind of early on and the second arc was terrible. I don't think you'll care for the third arc all that much since it's pretty much Kirito's powergamer bullshit set to 11, along with a new female protagonist who's even more dependent than Asuna in the previous arc. Setting is a nice change of pace though! A large part of the reason why .hack//SIGN is not good is that all the plot and poo poo is basically just an excuse for doing a character piece and regardless of how you feel about Tsukasa there sure isn't 26 episodes worth of material around. It was a kind of clever direction to go though, given SIGN was meant as an introduction to The World and other aspects of the game series, so they were very restricted in terms of what they could do plot-wise - just focus on something that's completely separate from the games instead. SAO had a lot of potential, and a reasonably strong start, but the combination of finding Kirito intensely unlikeable, and the general way things went after the first arc, I thought it went to poo poo. Can't see Log Horizon going the same way, but you never know.
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Dec 12, 2013 15:54
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I like it when Akatsuki does the thing where she spins in the air in front of the moon and slashes. It's kind of neat in that distinctly "anime" way. 
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Dec 12, 2013 16:02
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Next episode, the moment we've all been waiting for. Hot hot negotiating action...this time with NPCs!
Sindai fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Dec 14, 2013 |
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Dec 14, 2013 19:30
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A fairly slow episode, and a bit of a infodump, but still pretty good. (Akatsuki sure seems to enjoy hanging from the ceiling) Its pretty obvious that Shiroe's sides of things are going to revolve around this princess and the king, we'll have to see what happens with the training camp and Henrietta, it sounds like they're making quite a lot of friends in town.
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Dec 14, 2013 20:19
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Conot posted:A fairly slow episode, and a bit of a infodump, but still pretty good. (Akatsuki sure seems to enjoy hanging from the ceiling)
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Dec 14, 2013 20:58
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Agreed, a rather uneventful, slow episode. But was a good setup episode. There's a decent amount of plot to look forwards to now.
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Dec 14, 2013 21:27
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Good setup episode, and it did not have a ton of fanservice for a beach episode, though I guess that is to be expected with NHK.
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Dec 14, 2013 21:59
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I'm interested to see how long they keep up the pretense before they are basically asked what the gently caress adventurers are, as I doubt any of the People of the Land really know what the adventurers are. If the point comes up, I wonder how Shiroe will explain it? "Oh hey, we're actually from another world in which thise world is nothing more then a game for entertainment purposes". Cue straitjackets
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Dec 15, 2013 05:36
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Conot posted:I'm interested to see how long they keep up the pretense before they are basically asked what the gently caress adventurers are, as I doubt any of the People of the Land really know what the adventurers are. If the point comes up, I wonder how Shiroe will explain it? "Oh hey, we're actually from another world in which thise world is nothing more then a game for entertainment purposes". Cue straitjackets If they just said that they were from another world, used to partially cross over at will but are now stuck and looking for a way back that would likely be adequate. Revealing that they were originally young commoners with no special powers would probably be a good thing to leave out, though.
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Dec 15, 2013 06:51
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Serious Frolicking posted:If they just said that they were from another world, used to partially cross over at will but are now stuck and looking for a way back that would likely be adequate. Revealing that they were originally young commoners with no special powers would probably be a good thing to leave out, though. Given what Adventurers can do relative to what People of the Land can do, it'd probably revolve more around: -How do we make sure they won't randomly destroy us. -How do we make them do what we want. -Do they have good poo poo to sell. -Do they want to buy our stuff.
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Dec 15, 2013 09:34
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The average PotL is weaker than the average adventurer, but the former have some incredibly nasty toys available. Not to mention the former have some really shiny toys available to dangle in front of the greedy eyes of the latter. The next episode preview talks about the PotL trying to control and manipulate the adventurers, probably with some quest reward shineys. To use as weapons against other PotLs, or even against other adventurers. Think British India, or Spanish Mexico, the colonisers weren't that much more technologically advanced than the natives, but they were able to take advantage of the latter's political disunity and turn them against one another. Except with a kind of role reversal, this time the invaders are more like refugees, and politically divided, and can be manipulated by someone with some interesting bargaining chips. Who knows if the author will go there.
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Dec 15, 2013 13:40
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Maybe, but the basics of fighting endlessly respawning enemies is either overwhelming strength or not to engage at all. The existence of strong adventurers you can't eliminate makes it more straightforward, they have no threats to use, only trickery and bribes.
veekie fucked around with this message at 13:58 on Dec 15, 2013 |
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Dec 15, 2013 13:53
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Or get your own set of endlessly respawning troops on your side. Surely the dude in the spikey armour might eventually have second thoughts about being merely one of the Round Table chumps.
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Dec 15, 2013 13:59
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Might be better off getting Susukino or some other city of heroes. But it doesn't apply to things done IN a city though. Because you can't PvP in cities. It'd be spending a lot of time and effort laying siege.
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Dec 15, 2013 14:10
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It'd be interesting if it turned out that People of the Land can attack adventurers in cities because it's not counted as PVP.
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Dec 15, 2013 14:58
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Phobophilia posted:Or get your own set of endlessly respawning troops on your side. Surely the dude in the spikey armour might eventually have second thoughts about being merely one of the Round Table chumps. Nah, he's increasingly seeming like the type who looks and acts kinda monstrous, but never really backs it up with genuine evil. There may eventually be a Round Table traitor, but it probably won't be him.
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Dec 15, 2013 15:05
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I personally doubt any of the Round Table members would become a threat in that sense. Hamelin remnants maybe.
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Dec 15, 2013 15:10
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A loving beach episode. I think the whole "the People of the Land are sentient beings of their own with a local history and long established customs and civilization" thing here is going to have a major impact on there where-for's and why-how's the Adventurer Class of humans got stuck in-game. Calling it now: There is some incredible and horrific threat on its way to destroy the world and the supermen-Adventurer folks are going to be tasked to defeat it. I'm probably wrong, but we still don't have a clue why the hell these people experienced the Apocalypse. I want to maintain that the Adventurers are far more powerful than the People, but I keep getting this nagging feeling that this situation is going to change. I also worry that there is going to be some condition the Adventurer-class will eventually encounter that negates the respawning in the cathedral. Like, if a MOB NPC or Adventurer PvP player kills them, fine, but if a People kills them...dun dun dun dun, dun dun dun dun dun dun dun.... The best part is how the other Adventurers keep calling Shiroe: Black Shiroe or Evil Shiroe or whatever. Also, where would you get a pair of glasses made in this world? I would worry about breakage, loss, etc.
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Dec 15, 2013 16:04
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There is no way in hell that a game that has rp subclasses lacks craftable vanity items.
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Dec 15, 2013 16:09
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Dan7el posted:A loving beach episode.
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Dec 15, 2013 16:17
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veekie posted:Probably the most modestly attired beach episode I've seen in ages. Welcome to the NHK I'm actually really glad that this is a kids show. Fantasy world SoL would probably be insufferable if it wasn't.
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Dec 15, 2013 18:34
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I actually expect a land war. So our main characters end up allied with the natives in their region, and then they get pulled into a war against another region. Possibly the dickish adventurers from the first ark.
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Dec 15, 2013 18:43
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Phobophilia posted:The average PotL is weaker than the average adventurer, but the former have some incredibly nasty toys available. Not to mention the former have some really shiny toys available to dangle in front of the greedy eyes of the latter. I can think of one type of shiny they're already dangling in front of our cast. While it's doubtful they'll actually explore this terrible idea any further, (I hope not), you have to wonder what kind of a gender inbalance adventurers have... I'm terribly sorry for going there.
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Dec 15, 2013 19:41
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