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^ I just don't think there is any room in the deck for them. We need enough lands (I have myself at 22 here), removal, mechanics, and the support I have seen so far trumps Tenacious-D. Just create more 1/1 tokens. EDIT: drat myself getting the new page! Baller Ina posted:Would Tenacious Dead be useful in MURDERFARM or is it too cute? Repeatedly saccing it to Tymaret then bringing it back is a nice damage source, but it might be too mana-intensive to work. Could be useful in the SB for slower, more control-oriented matches, at least.
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Dec 12, 2013 01:17
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a dozen swans posted:You can sac the Needle for a card, then next activation sac a creature to bring it back targeting a new thing. Drives that gruul walker-heavy deck wild. Bonus points if the creature you sac was your opponent's. Sure, assuming that your first target no longer needs to be Needles?
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Dec 12, 2013 01:40
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Some Numbers posted:Sure, assuming that your first target no longer needs to be Needles? Most good Pithing Needle targets are planeswalkers, which you can throw a bit of damage at if you think you'll need to needle something else. The other big one is Aetherling, which is straightforward to kill when it can't blink.
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Dec 12, 2013 01:45
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kizudarake posted:I started thinking about MURDERFARM last night, and realized something so very awesome about this deck. We're running a deck that is Chick Tract-level Satan worshipping here. Tymaret is sacrificing goats to a god so that we can call down lightning from the sky to hit our enemies. Purphoros is answering our prayers for creatures by raining fire down upon our enemies. Young Pyromancer is like a little brother who wants to be like his big sis, Chandra, so he's dressing up like her and trying to play, too. Sacrificing goats to the gods is a very Greek thing rather than Satanic, but dropping a second Akroan Horse on an Aggro player can make you feel a little evil.  Baller Ina posted:Would Tenacious Dead be useful in MURDERFARM or is it too cute? Repeatedly saccing it to Tymaret then bringing it back is a nice damage source, but it might be too mana-intensive to work. Could be useful in the SB for slower, more control-oriented matches, at least. Tenacious D was actually one of the original cards in the primitive build I found on MTGSalvation that ran stuff like Liliana of the Dark Realms before I tinkered with it and ported it here as MURDERGOATS. I don't mind the card, it can just get expensive to keep bringing him back; I'd rather have something like Akroan Horse that works every turn without a mana investment.
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Dec 12, 2013 01:46
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I've been getting some testing in against RG devotion with Murdergoats, and it's a tough match. You definitely need to go full control there. I'm curious what direction other control Murdergoats decks are looking like. I've been going back and forth over a few cards. For example, I love having a couple Akroan horses in there, as they start to take over games, but, I'm not convinced it's good enough against enough decks. I think just running 4 posts might be better (the latest build I was running 3 horses 2 posts). I generally tend to play more control like decks, so, my choices have skewed in that direction, but I'm wondering what choices other people have made. Here's what I think I want to be running right now (lots of control locally, so, pretty anti-control build). Deck: Murdergoatfarmanimalsatanists   //Main 4 Blood Crypt 2 Rakdos Guildgate 12 Mountain 5 Swamp 4 Tymaret, the Murder King 4 Young Pyromancer 3 Purphoros, God of the Forge 4 Dreadbore 3 Lightning Strike 4 Molten Birth 4 Mizzium Mortars 3 Trading Post 1 Akroan Horse 2 Hero's Downfall 2 Rakdos's Return 1 Pithing Needle 2 Rakdos Keyrune //Sideboard 2 Ultimate Price 4 Thoughtseize 3 Slaughter Games 1 Rakdos's Return 3 Pithing Needle 2 Rakdos Charm  Display deck statisticsAlso, side note, someone mentioned hating underworld connections a page back or two. You can pithing needle it by naming the land they've targeted. Pithing needle says name a card, so you can name a swamp, and it will prevent non-mana abilities, in this case, the extra ability granted by underworld connections.
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Dec 12, 2013 03:22
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Gnawing Zombie was my tech against aggro - you kill them slower, but can keep yourself out of burn range. Other than that, just packing in more efficient 1:1 removal helps. Shock is almost essential. I've actually gone and dropped the Molten Birth entirely - it's too slow against aggro, and not enough of a threat against control. Magma Jet is also really nice against aggro - the scry keeps digging for more removal, while the extra damage from Lightning Strike isn't necessary when you're facing a deck full of X/1s and X/2s. Ultimately you can grind them out if things go late, the important part is being able to efficiently stall them out so you can get your pyromancers and trading posts grinding out value.
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Dec 12, 2013 03:45
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Are MURDER[animal] people moving away from maindeck Pack Rat nowadays? I have three left over from some aborted monoblack plans that I'm running in my list. I don't know how useful they are compared to the other cards I have despite its token-making ability, but one of the few times I got to playtest my list I had to win by swinging with them backed by Tymaret sacs because I never drew a Purphoros or Young Pyromancer. Do some people still like them in the deck or could I sideboard them in case I feel like swinging, replacing them with maindeck Mizzium Mortars perhaps (which might keep out of combat in the first place; I was playtesting against Minotaur tribal so perhaps that first experience with this deck made me more cautious about combat than I should be) E: I guess a decklist would be useful- Deck: MURDERGOATS //Lands 4 Blood Crypt 11 Mountain 2 Mutavault 2 Rakdos Guildgate 4 Swamp //Spells 3 Doom Blade 3 Dreadbore 4 Lightning Strike 4 Molten Birth 3 Rakdos Keyrune 2 Rakdos's Return 3 Trading Post //Creatures 3 Pack Rat 4 Purphoros, God of the Forge 4 Tymaret, the Murder King 4 Young Pyromancer //Sideboard 2 Electrickery 2 Pithing Needle 2 Thoughtseize 3 Rakdos Charm 3 Ultimate Price 3 Slaughter Games Display deck statistics
C-Euro fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Dec 12, 2013 |
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Dec 12, 2013 03:53
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I'm keeping 3 pack rats in my side board along with 2 pithing needles and 2 akroan horses to switch gears for games 2 and/or 3. Gotta keep them guessing. Of course, I mainboard slaughter games for my local meta, so maybe I'm not the best example. Mouth Ze Dong fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Dec 12, 2013 |
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Dec 12, 2013 03:59
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End of Life Guy posted:I'm keeping 3 pack rats in my side board along with 2 pithing needles and 2 akroan horses to switch gears for games 2 and/or 3. Yeah, perhaps the biggest problem with the list is that I haven't actually played this against anyone around here other than a co-worker, and I doubt anyone else is running Minotaur tribal like he is right now (but between you and me, the deck could be pretty sweet if Born of the Gods gives it a turn 1 play besides Duress). So there's no meta adjustment here, I just took the cards I saw the most between lists and went from there. C-Euro fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Dec 12, 2013 |
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Dec 12, 2013 04:06
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I run a couple Thoughtseizes in my MURDERGOATS! deck just because its so loving good. With Trading Post, the life lost is pretty much always worth it.
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Dec 12, 2013 04:16
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How many goons here have actually build MURDERGOATS or a variant? Nearly a dozen? 
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Dec 12, 2013 04:25
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bhsman posted:How many goons here have actually build MURDERGOATS or a variant? Nearly a dozen? I originally wanted to build Monoblack but then I got a new job that makes it pretty tough to attend any weekday event at my LGS so I decided to make a cheaper deck since I would have less occasion to use it, plus MURDERGOATS is kind of wacky which I appreciate. C-Euro fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Dec 12, 2013 |
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Dec 12, 2013 05:05
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I have some commander decks built up and linkable: Purphoros Tokens: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/purphoros-driven-life/ Roon / Venser all-permanents blink http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/roon-venser-blink/ plus a Riku of two Reflections deck that's not typed up, that's mostly trying to recur things like prophetic bolt with pneumonic walls Played the first two last night in a 4 man and Purphoros won thanks to a mana geyser that added 15, and I was first out with Roon thanks to getting a lot of early hate thanks to sticking a sylvan primordial
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Dec 12, 2013 05:37
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End of Life Guy posted:I'm keeping 3 pack rats in my side board along with 2 pithing needles and 2 akroan horses to switch gears for games 2 and/or 3. I main board a slaughter games as well because my LGS is super predictable and they all copy each other....actually the murder deck is the only unique one being played so go me for not going superfriends like everyone else. Yes I will slaughter games your Elspeth without having seen you play it because you played it the last 3 weeks in a row  .
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Dec 12, 2013 05:39
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Does anyone have some cool EDH lists with Olivia Voldaren? I'm having a tough time deciding between building around Grimgrin, or Olivia, or possibly going Mono-Black. Maybe Vish Kal? I'm also on a mono-green binge lately, and trying to think of other cool commanders to check out. I wish I liked any of the Simic options.
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Dec 12, 2013 05:56
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Gravy Train Robber posted:Does anyone have some cool EDH lists with Olivia Voldaren? I'm having a tough time deciding between building around Grimgrin, or Olivia, or possibly going Mono-Black. Maybe Vish Kal? I'm also on a mono-green binge lately, and trying to think of other cool commanders to check out. I wish I liked any of the Simic options. I've been toying with a variation of a R/B steal and sacrifice deck with the usual sac outlets and death triggers. The twist is using some vampire tribal elements like Kalastria Highborn and Bloodline Keeper. Red for artifact removal, board control (e.g. Earthquake/Blasphemous Act/Sudden Demise) and threaten effects (Zealous Conscripts) I'd probably build Grimgrin first, but I kind of have the Mimeoplasm slotted into to covering the UB slot when I get there.
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Dec 12, 2013 06:09
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Here is my shot at the "control" version of MurderGoats (although I just noticed I never changed the name back and I am too lazy to do so) Deck: MURDERHORSES //Lands 4 Blood Crypt 13 Mountain 7 Swamp //Spells 4 Dreadbore 4 Mizzium Mortars 2 Magma Jet 3 Doom Blade 1 Rakdos's Return 3 Pithing Needle 4 Trading Post 3 Rakdos Keyrune 1 Slaughter Games //Creatures 3 Purphoros, God of the Forge 4 Tymaret, the Murder King 4 Young Pyromancer //Sideboard 2 Hero's Downfall 3 Pack Rat 2 Mindsparker Display deck statisticsAs far as the side board goes, I wasn't sure if my side board should be the aggro MurderHorse switch or if its better to go all in on one build and have the side board support that build. Anyone have any good answers for getting D-Sphered with this deck? Purphoros attracts D-Spheres like flies to poo poo especially because everyone knows they can spend the removal on the rest of my deck. Mindisgone fucked around with this message at 06:45 on Dec 12, 2013 |
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Dec 12, 2013 06:39
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bhsman posted:How many goons here have actually build MURDERGOATS or a variant? Nearly a dozen? Murdergoats looks amazing fun and is actually pretty cheap, with most of the price being in the lands which can be filled in as I can afford them. As a guy just getting back into magic I am building one as my first deck.
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Dec 12, 2013 06:55
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So I finally got around to playing Rakdos Aggro, and holy crap is it fast! T1 Tormented Hero, T2 Madcap Skills, down to 14. T3 Shock his 2nd blocker, Madcap Skills, down to 5. T4 Doom Blade his 2nd blocker, win. Obviously it was a pretty much perfect hand, especially with the 2nd Hero I had just in case, but still, the other games didn't take much longer. I'm definitely taking this to FNM. I've never actually played aggro before, so it should be interesting. List's here if anyone's curious. It's pretty much the standard. I just hope I don't run into a lot of mono- black; I'd hate to have nothing but Doom Blades for that.
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Dec 12, 2013 07:21
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suicidesteve posted:So I finally got around to playing Rakdos Aggro, and holy crap is it fast! T1 Tormented Hero, T2 Madcap Skills, down to 14. T3 Shock his 2nd blocker, Madcap Skills, down to 5. T4 Doom Blade his 2nd blocker, win. Sideboard doom blades out and mortars in against mono-b. Or dark betrayal.
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Dec 12, 2013 07:37
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suicidesteve posted:So I finally got around to playing Rakdos Aggro, and holy crap is it fast! T1 Tormented Hero, T2 Madcap Skills, down to 14. T3 Shock his 2nd blocker, Madcap Skills, down to 5. T4 Doom Blade his 2nd blocker, win. I've switched over from WB Midrange to Rakdos Aggro as my main deck for Standard (while I work on picking up the remaining pieces for Simic Devotion). Its a fun, powerful deck, and pretty cheap to boot. Dark Betrayal, Dreadbore, Hero's Downfall, and Ultimate Price are all good replacements for the Doom Blades from the side. Its definitely a meta-call, and when I was playing WB Midrange I opted to use Ultimate Prices instead of Doom Blade in the main because it was better against the opponents I regularly faced.
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Dec 12, 2013 07:50
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Ultimate Price is more likely to hit something, the drawback is that almost every opponent is also going to have something that's immune to it. Personally I think Doom Blade is the better choice in RB Aggro - it kills Reckoner and the cheap GW fatties, which I think cause you more problems than the mono-B guys will. Put Dark Betrayal in the board, or perhaps Ultimate Price if you think you might want them in addition to the Doom Blades in some matchups.
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Dec 12, 2013 08:39
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Tomorrow night's FNM is Modern. I have Affinity built and ready to go, but have also built this monstrosity to go along with as well as an alternative deck to play. I based it on an Eggs build I saw online a little while back. I don't know exactly how it'll play out, apart from either being a scream to play, or me ending up with my rear end handed to me on a platter. I suspect the latter. Lands: 7 Island 2 Plains 1 Mountain 4 Ghost Quarter 2 Azorius Guildgate 1 Hallowed Fountain 4 Chromatic Star 4 Chromatic Sphere 4 Conjurer's Bauble 4 Lotus Bloom 4 Reshape 4 Serum Visions 4 Faith's Reward 4 Open the Vaults 2 Gitaxian Probe 2 Sleight of Hand 2 Psychic Spiral 2 Twincast 2 Pyrite Spellbomb Sideboard: 4 Silence 4 Echoing Truth 3 Blind Obedience 2 Rapid Hybridization 1 Grafdigger's Cage 1 Pithing Needle 1 Nihill Spellbomb Already I can see that I probably need more draw, and maybe a better win-con rather than recurring Pyrite Spellbomb 10 times, or decking the opponent with Psychic Spiral. I am tempted to do something reckless and play this rather than Affinity, but then again, I'm curious to actually see how this plays out.
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Dec 12, 2013 12:48
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I haven't seen an updated Rakdos Aggro yet. My version is getting a little long in the tooth but still sneaks out 2-1s on MTGO.
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Dec 12, 2013 14:07
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Speaking of affinity, what's the best cards to disrupt it? There's a guy at my LGS that brings it in every modern night, and he always takes first.
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Dec 12, 2013 14:07
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Depends on your deck. Stony silence Disenchant Shattering spree Ancient grudge Shatterstorm Nature's claim Hurkyl's recall Oxidize Viridian zealot Circle of Protecton: artifacts Kataki Molybdenum fucked around with this message at 14:56 on Dec 12, 2013 |
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Dec 12, 2013 14:54
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kizudarake posted:Speaking of affinity, what's the best cards to disrupt it? There's a guy at my LGS that brings it in every modern night, and he always takes first. I am that guy in one of my groups. Depends on your deck/colours, most established archetypes have a way in order to be competative, but you have to remember part of how Affinity works is taking the first game on sheer speed, then another by you not drawing hate in time. In white Stony Silence is bad news, and there's a Kamigawa legend who forces an affinity player to commit all their mana to keeping board presence. Green and red both have good artifact removal of course, I think both have anti-artifact sweepers, Creeping Corrosion being the one I can remember. Edit: ↑ pretty comprehensive list there. BizarroAzrael fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Dec 12, 2013 |
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Dec 12, 2013 15:26
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Molybdenum posted:Depends on your deck. Qasali Pridemage and Harmonic Sliver are the ones I run into most often in Melira Pod.
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Dec 12, 2013 15:59
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I'm mostly running red, so looks like 4x shattering spree, 4x ancient grudge, and 3 burning earth are going sideboard, maybe 3 blood moon.
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Dec 12, 2013 16:19
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Shatterstorm is legal.
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Dec 12, 2013 16:29
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kizudarake posted:I'm mostly running red, so looks like 4x shattering spree, 4x ancient grudge, and 3 burning earth are going sideboard, maybe 3 blood moon. Definitely go Blood Moon. It wrecks so many decks so frequently. e: Boco_T posted:In Murderfarm, at what point are you generally trying to cast Rakdos's Return? I have the old build so it's in sideboard, so for that matter, what kinds of decks is it good against? Is it supposed to be a lategame topdeck where you use all your mana? I'd say it varies. I've used it as everything from a Fireball to a Mind Rot. It's not always that great against aggro, since they've emptied their hand by the time it's worth casting, and control will often try to counter it, but it's pretty good against the devotion decks and is super versatile. a dozen swans fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Dec 12, 2013 |
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Dec 12, 2013 16:36
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In Murderfarm, at what point are you generally trying to cast Rakdos's Return? I have the old build so it's in sideboard, so for that matter, what kinds of decks is it good against? Is it supposed to be a lategame topdeck where you use all your mana?
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Dec 12, 2013 17:00
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kizudarake posted:I'm mostly running red, so looks like 4x shattering spree, 4x ancient grudge, and 3 burning earth are going sideboard, maybe 3 blood moon. Do you really want to waste 3 mana and a card to try to shut down some manalands against the fastest aggro deck in the meta that also happens to have nearly all colorless spells have 7~8 sources of nonland mana and occasionally runs lightening bolt+?. The problem with shattering spree is ravager and occasionally spellskite from the side. You really want your 2 for 1 removal to actually work as intended, which won't happen if they're on the stack at the same time and your opponent can respond as needed to each copy. edit: Since you're in red, run pyroclasm, it's pretty decent against affinity. Algid fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Dec 12, 2013 |
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Dec 12, 2013 17:07
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Algid posted:Ancient grudge is good, shattering spree not so good, and burning earth and blood moon are terrible against affinity. The blood moons are to ruin everyone else's non-affinity decks.
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Dec 12, 2013 17:21
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bhsman posted:How many goons here have actually build MURDERGOATS or a variant? Nearly a dozen? I have a Murderhorse deck...similar to a few that have been posted. I've been thinking about maybe revamping to involve more goats as well...
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Dec 12, 2013 17:53
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kizudarake posted:Speaking of affinity, what's the best cards to disrupt it? There's a guy at my LGS that brings it in every modern night, and he always takes first. Red should be pretty strong against affinity - all their damage is from generally small creatures that you can burn. Don't forget that you can kill whatever they are trying to put the Ravagar Modular counters on in response to the trigger. Also Ingot Chewer is a decent card for red vs. artifacts.
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Dec 12, 2013 18:55
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subx posted:Red should be pretty strong against affinity - all their damage is from generally small creatures that you can burn. Don't forget that you can kill whatever they are trying to put the Ravagar Modular counters on in response to the trigger. You also need to consider that they may feed their Ravager to save it knowing this, so be careful you don't waste mana and cards on burning one that they might keep in play this way. Consider the state of your hand and the mana you leave open and how it's going to inform their choices.
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Dec 12, 2013 19:03
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BizarroAzrael posted:You also need to consider that they may feed their Ravager to save it knowing this, so be careful you don't waste mana and cards on burning one that they might keep in play this way. Consider the state of your hand and the mana you leave open and how it's going to inform their choices. That's why you want some actual artifact removal as well, but burn spells are still really strong against affinity. It makes it really hard for them to hit you with a Cranial Plating at least. Volcanic Fallout would also decent against them now that I think about it, and against any other aggro deck.
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Dec 12, 2013 19:09
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More opinions on cards from MURDERFARM testing, since I can't get enough of trying to optimize the deck: Auger Spree - tried this out because I thought it would help against Boros Charm's indestructible mode. Thoroughly underwhelming, don't run it. Erebos - competes too much with other four-drops, but the card-draw is nice. Easier to cast than Dark Prophecy but more mana-intensive to use. I think MURDERGOATS is better served by Prop and MURDERHORSE by Underworld Connections. Skullcrack - short of Sphinx's Rev, there's not that much lifegain out there. Fringe at best. Maze's End Turbofog runs a bunch but it's incredibly vulnerable to Tymaret and not a very popular deck, so unless it's a serious part of your local meta I wouldn't run this. Act of Treason - incredible. Haven't tried out Portent of Betrayal (additional Scry 1 for an extra {1}) but I think Treason is the better choice, since it allows you to destroy an enemy creature for five mana instead of six, a difference which has been important for me in the past. Currently trying to decide between two and three mainboard. My biggest fears with the deck right now are Assemble the Legion and Underworld Connections, but I think Pithing Needle / Slaughter Games help deal with those at least a little bit. Still hoping that NYX gives the deck some enchantment destruction, though I've been debating splashing green (ugh, Jund) for Golgari Charm and Abrupt Decay. I think the splash weakens the deck, but I haven't tested it yet. Anyone else have thoughts on how we can make MURDERFARM even better?
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Dec 12, 2013 19:42
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My LGS will be having Modern tomorrow as well, and I have a Jund list, I just don't know if it'll do well in my meta (2 infect and 1 Enduring Ideal, possibly more may come), and I have two sideboard slots that are up for grabs. Creatures: 4 Tarmogoyf 4 Dark Confidant 4 Deathrite Shaman 2 Reaper of the Wilds 2 Scavenging Ooze Spells: 4 Liliana of the Veil 4 Lightning Bolt 4 Inquisition of Kozilek 3 Abrupt Decay 2 Maelstrom Pulse 2 Magma Jet 2 Terminate Lands: 2 Verdant Catacombs 2 Arid Mesa 2 Marsh Flats 4 Stomping Ground 4 Overgrown Tomb 3 Blackcleave Cliffs 2 Blood Crypt 1 Temple of Abandon 1 Grim Backwoods 1 Forest 1 Swamp 1 Mountain This sideboard is really mediocre, but at least it's something for the meantime. 3 Kitchen Finks 2 Thoughtseize 2 Ancient Grudge 2 Torpor Orb 2 Slaughter Games 2 Obstinate Baloth The two leftover slots I put in an Abrupt Decay and a Terminate just for placeholders, since I don't know what else I should put in there.
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Dec 12, 2013 19:47
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