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Captain Oblivious posted:It's not really that simple. It really depends on their kit, what Disciplines they have. Dominate and Presence are probably the best way to stop a werewolf but I'm pretty sure if they death rage none of that will work and you're stone cold hosed. There is one major advantage Vampires have in a straight fight- Celerity. Vampires have a better source of no-penalty multiple actions. Any werewolf can use Rage for extra actions, but only for a VERY limited amount of time. They can only go full-tilt for two turns, if they don't use Rage for anything else. A vampire can keep going until they're out of blood, which (on a full tank) will be at minimum ten rounds. Celerity only costs one point of blood a turn, regardless of the number of actions you get out of it. A vampire with a silver knife, a decent Dodge rating, and 3+ Celerity can ruin a Werewolf's day.
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Dec 13, 2013 04:03
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Siegkrow posted:Okay, Illuminate me, please. What is the power difference between Vampires and Werewolves? I know that at the very least, a single Werewolf is vastly stronger than your average 13 gen vamp. The big thing is that a vampire should never be caught alone by a werewolf who's out for blood. Vampires are much more based around stealth, infiltration, and manipulation than werewolves, no matter what their age or disciplines are.
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Dec 13, 2013 04:07
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Siegkrow posted:Okay, Illuminate me, please.  Please tell me at least one other person also loved Hunter: the Reckoning. (So far it's not looking good.)Another important thing to point out is that werewolves can cause Aggravated damage with their claws, right off the bat, which vampires can't even soak unless they have armor and/or the discipline Fortitude. It's much harder for most vampires to do aggravated damage to Garou unless they have silver, and even then, werewolves can still soak aggravated damage, except for that caused by silver, normally. Vampires also need full concentration and blood to heal even non-aggravated damage, while werewolves just fuckin' heal that poo poo automatically. It takes them much more time to heal agg damage, but they still do it automatically. A vampire's best weapons against a werewolf are planning and surprise. Well, that plus silver. e: Welp, above post didn't spoiler it, so I won't.
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Dec 13, 2013 04:13
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Stroop There It Is posted:Sorry, I don't have enough points in Innocence yet. I can tell you that I hated the hack & slash games that were made of it. Someone actually requested that they be LP'd in the request thread. I can't imagine that being anything other than a boring slog to the viewer, unless by some miracle.
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Dec 13, 2013 04:15
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gatz posted:I can tell you that I hated the hack&slash games that were made of it. Someone actually requested that they be LP'd in the request thread. I can't imagine that being anything other than a boring slog to the viewer, unless by some miracle.
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Dec 13, 2013 04:24
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gatz posted:I can tell you that I hated the hack & slash games that were made of it. Someone actually requested that they be LP'd in the request thread. I can't imagine that being anything other than a boring slog to the viewer, unless by some miracle. I'm convinced most of the requests of that type are "this game is godawful and I want someone else to suffer through it so I can skip the lp and see the ending which I will otherwise never, ever see"
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Dec 13, 2013 04:25
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I'm glad my single question brought this thread back from non-updatey based torpor  .Really, the thread itself is as good as the LP itself, the lore-sperging is simply smashing. There aren't any Lasombra in VtM:B, right? You guys can teach us about them without spoiling anything, right?
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Dec 13, 2013 05:23
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Siegkrow posted:I'm glad my single question brought this thread back from non-updatey based torpor None that are explicitly Lasombra, no. The problem with their signature discipline--Obtenebration--is that it's a PITA to model properly in a game--especially on the receiving end.
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Dec 13, 2013 05:50
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Siegkrow posted:I'm glad my single question brought this thread back from non-updatey based torpor I could do a little bit more to encourage discussion in the mean time. So I will, similar to The Dark ID's fallout thread. Let's talk about vampire fiction ...is there any worth reading? There were the clan novels set in the VTM universe, but I heard those were pretty terrible. There's the gehenna novel, which someone in the Redemption thread said wasn't very good. Steven King wrote Salem's Lot, which was about vampirism, but I've only ever read 'The Monkey' and it turned me off of Steven King. There is also Bram Stoker's Dracula, which I haven't read. And there is The Vampyre, written by John Polidori after spending a summer with Mary Shelley (author of Frankenstein, written at the same time), Percy Shelley (great romantic-era poet, who I will bring up later in the LP for reasons unclear right now), Lord Byron (famous romantic-era poet), and Claire Clairmont (who I have nothing to say about). I haven't read the story, either... my literary interests are in other areas. gatz fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Dec 13, 2013 |
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Dec 13, 2013 06:09
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The Bloodnet LP by gatz was some funny vampire fiction. Speaking of which: is our character a reference to Melissa from Bloodnet?  Serious semi-answer: I'm surprised you didn't mention Anne Rice. I've never read her works and cannot judge them from an aesthetic point of view, but I know that she was influential.
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Dec 13, 2013 06:49
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Siegkrow posted:I'm glad my single question brought this thread back from non-updatey based torpor The Lasombra are creepy motherfuckers who control Darkness, with a capital D, which is distinct from regular darkness in that regular darkness is not the yawning, ever hungry maw of the eternal void. They are the Sabbat's equivalent of the Ventrue and if you don't want to be eaten by horrible living shadow monsters it's probably best to avoid them. Also I'm pretty sure just like the Tzimisce they think they've killed their Antediluvian but instead it's just become a horrible entity made out of living shadow and pure, pitch black evil. Also they're very melodramatic to the point of having a Path of Enlightenment that, depending on how you want to interpret it, is pure fuckin' melodrama.
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Dec 13, 2013 07:02
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gatz posted:...is there any worth reading? There were the clan novels set in the VTM universe, but I heard those were pretty terrible. There's the gehenna novel, which someone in the Redemption thread said wasn't very good. I confirm that Gehenna wasn't very good. If you're looking for an OWoD novel that takes place in the final days, Judgement Day (the Mage book) is better. Then there are three VTR novels, two of which I'd wholeheartedly recommend. The first one, A Hunger Like Fire is great. The third one, Marriage of Virtue and Viciousness, is even better (although it's better to read AHLF first to get acquainted with the main characters). Skip Blood In, Blood Out - its entire plot can be summed up as "what if black vampires were the REAL racists?".
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Dec 13, 2013 08:15
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Feinne posted:
Could you expand on that? It sounds absolutely magical 
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Dec 13, 2013 09:12
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:The big thing is that a vampire should never be caught alone by a werewolf who's out for blood. Vampires are much more based around stealth, infiltration, and manipulation than werewolves, no matter what their age or disciplines are.
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Dec 13, 2013 09:23
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gatz posted:Let's talk about vampire fiction Would VtM fan-fiction count as vampire fiction?
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Dec 13, 2013 09:56
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Siegkrow posted:Okay, Illuminate me, please. What is the power difference between Vampires and Werewolves? I know that at the very least, a single Werewolf is vastly stronger than your average 13 gen vamp. Werewolves are... interesting. They're basically super-commandos from hell, because of their ability to easily jump into the Umbra, where most foes can't chase them (Mages can Umbra-walk but it's often vulgar and gets paradox, vampires generally have no access to abilities to get to the umbra). In fact, all of their abilities are pretty much obviously intended to compliment their incredible commando abilities. They have innate and quite rapid health regeneration, the ability to throw down a lot of extra actions very fast (and Rage can be replenished fairly quickly), and a lot of sources of aggravated damage. Furthermore, they soak all forms of damage with their full Stamina, which ranges from 'high' to 'literally sky high', and can get a bunch of Gifts for additional soak and damage, plus (relatively) easy access to fun magic weapons and trinkets which add even more. Straight up comparisons between were extra actions and vamp ones don't quite work because fights in oWoD can get incredibly lethal, and the werewolf has higher init (so attacks first), deals aggravated damage (can't heal), and is probably putting out a ton more damage. To say nothing of the more broken changing breeds, such as the were-cheetahs (+5 Dexterity! Access to Mage: the Ascension talismans!) and the were-bears (does having the ability to pump up to 15 soak in a turn plus health regen mean anything? Because it should.)
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Dec 13, 2013 10:25
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Honestly most of the Antediluvians seem to occupy a perfect sweet spot between 'so ridiculous it's terrible' and 'so ridiculous it's great in a over-the-top 90s way'. I'd love a big loredump on what we know about all of them, if one of the more learned in such maters wished to share it
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Dec 13, 2013 10:36
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"The Strain" by Guillermo del Toro and Chuck Hogan is a pretty solid piece of modern vampire fiction. Pure horror, and almost a remake of the classic Dracula, but also with a focus on vampirism as a communicable disease.
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Dec 13, 2013 11:23
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gatz posted:Let's talk about vampire fiction I found it worth reading from the perspective of "this is an influential story", but on its own merits, well, you already know the story, don't you? There's no novelty in it. I remember enjoying Interview With the Vampire, but I was a teenager when I read it so who knows. I still like the movie. I tried reading a couple of others in the series and they weren't great. I read Ballet of Blood quite recently, which reminded me a bit of Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Supernatural, so if you like those it's worth the 99˘ it costs.
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Dec 13, 2013 11:44
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Ephemeron posted:Skip Blood In, Blood Out - its entire plot can be summed up as "what if black vampires were the REAL racists?". We're not here to dance around the rabbit hole of awful, tawdry and tasteless fiction. We're here to dive in that shithole head first and see if we can get high on the fumes on the way down. Tell us about it.
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Dec 13, 2013 11:53
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I've never understood why vampire players insist on the "vampire vs werewolf" thing. Garou were meant for combat, as they were created as the warrior race for Gaea, and it's reflected in it's natural abilities and powers. Sure, older vampires can become really powerful with age, but so does every supernatural thing in oWoD. Also, I shouldn't count on a 1vs1 fight against Garou, they basic social organitsation is the pack, and it's a really strong bond between them and it means if you find one, the rest aren't far away, even if you can't sense them. The vampire vs garou situation it's not something I've dealt many times though, only when the plot demanded it, both games had different focus and primary antagonists so usually they didn't mix. Don't think vampire should be a combat-heavy game, but I've encountered some people who enjoyed it that way, every one their own I guess.
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Dec 13, 2013 14:13
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Angry Lobster posted:I've never understood why vampire players insist on the "vampire vs werewolf" thing. Garou were meant for combat, as they were created as the warrior race for Gaea, and it's reflected in it's natural abilities and powers. Sure, older vampires can become really powerful with age, but so does every supernatural thing in oWoD. Also, I shouldn't count on a 1vs1 fight against Garou, they basic social organitsation is the pack, and it's a really strong bond between them and it means if you find one, the rest aren't far away, even if you can't sense them. The vampire vs garou situation it's not something I've dealt many times though, only when the plot demanded it, both games had different focus and primary antagonists so usually they didn't mix. Honestly, I think it's the challenge of it. A vampire who can consistently take down werewolves in 1 on 1 combat is basically ready to go kick the Prince's teeth in/go wipe out the Anarchs/do whatever the hell they want. That's some serious power we're talking about, it'd take a lot of knowledge, some silver, ridiculous combat stats (especially, dodge, if you're going in without a minimum of 4 dexterity and 4 dodge you're already dead), and lots of disciplines, especially Celerity. Potence and Fortitude are musts as well. Though, the werewolves also make an excellent stick/plot device. I was in this game set in Milwaukee, where death-puppies had the place under siege. Basically, no one in, no one out. My Tremere found (okay stole) something that turned out to be a werewolf thing. He got it passed to his sire alright, but after the hand-off he noticed he was being followed. Eventually he ducked into an alley, thinking he'd kill whoever it was following him and move on. This character was full-on abusing the third dot of Path of Blood, dropping his generation as low as he could each night he was doing something important. Basically in a fight he could jump his physical stats up by 10 through blood buffing (expensive but amazing, that's an entire person-worth of blood). He was feeling pretty invincible. He didn't "duck into the alley." He was herded there. Through the aforementioned bullshit he managed to kill exactly one with a lucky shot (10 dex, 3 melee, and a Burning Blade'd(ritual to make a weapon do aggravated damage) sword) before the rest of the pack descended on him and ripped him apart, stupidly high stats or no. Really, it only took one of them to murder him in a single turn. Don't gently caress with werewolves. Don't do it. It's a bad idea. The character had Dark Fate, but as it was two sessions in I didn't expect that.
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Dec 13, 2013 14:59
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Interview with the Vampire is a great book. The later books are what get really lovely, really quickly. As for WoD fiction, the Clan Novel series is actually pretty good. Some of them are a little weaker than others, but some are amazing. The Malkavian book, especially, which shows the world from Anatole's point of view a few times. It's interesting to see how a madman like that experiences his night to night activities.
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Dec 13, 2013 15:13
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apostateCourier posted:Honestly, I think it's the challenge of it. A vampire who can consistently take down werewolves in 1 on 1 combat is basically ready to go kick the Prince's teeth in/go wipe out the Anarchs/do whatever the hell they want. Until the Prince's spies discover the location of his Haven and the building is violently and unexpectedly re-zoned by the city that following day. Being able to win a toe-to-toe battle is only meaningful if you can actually get to a battle with someone, after all, and vampires are pretty much geared to using others as catspaws to create distance. (In NWoD, its actually a form of game to see how many layers of un-knowing dupes you can reach through to effect something relatively trivial) What I'm trying to say is that if your character is able to consistently take down Werewolves, you're either some kind of 4th Gen Elder (and what kind of game are you playing?) or you've focused your character so tightly on combat that you'll be destroyed by a Caitiff with Obfuscate and friend fresh from the looney bin named Arson Johnny. Its the exact opposite of 'doing whatever they want' in the reality of the setting.
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Dec 13, 2013 15:34
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The most reliable anti-werewolf tactic for vampires in nWoD is to simply outlive them. Even if they don't succumb to all the violence that permeates Forsaken existence, their natural lifespan is still human.
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Dec 13, 2013 18:48
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Ephemeron posted:The most reliable anti-werewolf tactic for vampires in nWoD is to simply outlive them. Even if they don't succumb to all the violence that permeates Forsaken existence, their natural lifespan is still human. Actually in the nWoD the Forsaken age really slowly, and can live to an active life well past a century. It isn't immortality by a long shot, but I'd hesitate to call their life-span 'human'.
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Dec 13, 2013 18:52
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In nWoD the most reliable way to take down a werewolf is to shoot it because nWoD werewolves are not nearly as dangerous as oWoD ones.
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Dec 13, 2013 19:02
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Augustin Iturbide posted:In nWoD the most reliable way to take down a werewolf is to shoot it because nWoD werewolves are not nearly as dangerous as oWoD ones. Assuming you can kill them in the first round, maybe, which is built on a lot of assumptions. First that they are alone, which unlikely since they love to travel as a pack. Unless they're some kind of Irraka scout in which case good luck attacking the slippery bastard. Or they're someplace you can't exactly have a huge fight anyway because Veil/Masquerade/DHS. Or you're going to need a good ambush, which is hard to do against a bunch of supernaturally empowered sniffer-dogs, many of which have specific anti-ambush Gifts and/or Spirit spies. Oh, and you'll need to cleanly kill all of them and rapidly, because if even one gets away you're gonna die soon because that lone survivor will rile up another pack that will kill you. (Werewolves hate werewolf hunters.) Going up against nWoD werewolves as a not-supernatural is very binary. Either you kill them the first time, and quickly, with overwhelming force or they'll escape. Then they regroup (they're good at that) and then they will track you down (they're good at that too) and then they will kill you (they're really good at that too). Basically you need to put together a near flawless ambush that goes off without a hitch, using a bunch of dudes with big guns loaded with silver if you want to get away with killing a werewolf pack. Everybody in nWoD is less 'dangerous' than their oWoD counterparts, but in the nWoD they remain at levels of extreme relative lethality. LeJackal fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Dec 13, 2013 |
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Dec 13, 2013 19:24
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Caustic Soda posted:Could you expand on that? It sounds absolutely magical If I remember right in principle if you are doing it right the Path of Night works by deciding that Vampires and the evil they do are actually part of the greater good ordained by God, and thus Vampires should embrace (no pun intended) their villainous role. In practice it seems rife for similar abuse as the Ravnos' Path of Paradox, where people don't bother to actually get the point and just take it as an excuse to be Literally Snidely Whiplash.
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Dec 13, 2013 19:42
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LeJackal posted:Everybody in nWoD is less 'dangerous' than their oWoD counterparts Except Hunters. The only WoD stuff I've ever done is nHunter, and some of the endowments they can get - especially for Task Force: VALKYRIE - are very nasty. And as I understand it, oHunters were all but toothless.
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Dec 13, 2013 20:11
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Cythereal posted:Except Hunters. The only WoD stuff I've ever done is nHunter, and some of the endowments they can get - especially for Task Force: VALKYRIE - are very nasty. And as I understand it, oHunters were all but toothless. They were. I played Hunter: The Reckoning once, and while we accomplished some crazy poo poo a lot of it was via our GM altering the rules somewhat to make us less hopelessly screwed. In most cases, all a Hunter really got back then was the ability to see the supernatural. The Edges didn't really qualify you to go toe to toe with any of it and you had human level durability, no way to take extra actions, and unless you were a melee based Avenger (which had its own problems, because for as badass as Cleave could be you were still going toe to toe with a oWoD monster as a human) you really didn't have any good fighting options beyond 'pray a shotgun is enough' or some form of trickery. We only got as far as we did in our big final confrontation with a coterie of vamps because we had a Judge with True Faith, and we stole a fire truck, then had her bless the water. I have no idea if that actually should have worked, according to oWoD lore, but it was one of the funniest moments of my gaming career, watching vamps melt away like a firehose was a flamethrower on steroids.
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Dec 13, 2013 20:34
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Not all nWoD hunters get Endowments, and Endowments vary wildly in quality (Task Force Valkyrie and The Chieron Group having the sick-nasty business, and groups like The Ascending Ones who have garbage Endowments), but LeJackal is right in that all nWoD supernaturals have less potent abilities (except Mages but gently caress Mages) then oWoD ones. I think his example of werewolf hunting is more based off of the fiction more then the rules though: Werewolves have just about the weakest stealth abilities of any supernatural type, and most of their supernatural powers besides shapeshifting (Gifts) are useless outside of specific contexts. The pack thing can be tough, but if you murder a few of them and a few more get away, those werewolves are basically hosed in the context of nWoD because now they won't be able to control their spirit territory as well, making them targets for nasty spirits and other werewolves who want their poo poo. Of course, now you've got spirits and more werewolves to deal with. These sorts of arguments are kinda silly since one of the major focuses of nWoD and oWoD is that there are more ways to deal with conflict then shooting or stabbing each other, and context is always highly relevant when people start throwing down. Or you can join Task Force Valkyrie, spot the werewolves with your Anti-Supernatural Detection Goggles, murder their pack totem with Ghost Bullets, zap them with your laser cannon, then sell their corpses to the Cheiron Group. Roleplaying!
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Dec 13, 2013 20:43
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Augustin Iturbide posted:Or you can join Task Force Valkyrie, spot the werewolves with your Anti-Supernatural Detection Goggles, murder their pack totem with Ghost Bullets, zap them with your laser cannon, then sell their corpses to the Cheiron Group. Roleplaying! As my group discovered during our first Valkyrie game, vampires also have difficulty surviving TOW missiles, getting dumped out of an airplane at 20,000 feet after getting run over by a limousine (long story), and getting sucked into a jet engine. Endowments: nice to have, but not always necessary.
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Dec 13, 2013 20:48
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The sad part is, like most of White Wolf's stuff, there was a really cool idea at the base of Hunter: The Reckoning. The idea that these arrogant bastards have called you livestock forever and grown complacent that they control the world and can hide whatever atrocities they feel like committing, totally unaccountable to the humans they treat like slaves, and that suddenly you can see them, you have a few edges to even the odds in your desperate struggle, and you and your friends need to teach these arrogant bastards the meaning of fear. This is a cool setup for a desperate and very angry game, where the chances are pretty high you'll get yourself killed but you might flip the checkers table on the supernaturals in the process. It's just that, as has often felt like the case, from a mechanical standpoint you can't even surprise these things, usually, let alone ambush them or destroy them. They take six actions, do enough damage to one-shot each hunter on the team, have supernatural senses, etc. It kind of puts the lie to the whole 'We can't risk being spotted, they outnumber us' setting conceit in general.
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Dec 13, 2013 20:49
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Augustin Iturbide posted:I think his example of werewolf hunting is more based off of the fiction more then the rules though: Werewolves have just about the weakest stealth abilities of any supernatural type..... This is a laugh. Stealth's level 5 Gift is total invisibility - which does not break even in combat. Its the best form of stealth in the system.
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Dec 13, 2013 21:01
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Night10194 posted:The sad part is, like most of White Wolf's stuff, there was a really cool idea at the base of Hunter: The Reckoning. The idea that these arrogant bastards have called you livestock forever and grown complacent that they control the world and can hide whatever atrocities they feel like committing, totally unaccountable to the humans they treat like slaves, and that suddenly you can see them, you have a few edges to even the odds in your desperate struggle, and you and your friends need to teach these arrogant bastards the meaning of fear. This is a cool setup for a desperate and very angry game, where the chances are pretty high you'll get yourself killed but you might flip the checkers table on the supernaturals in the process. It's just that, as has often felt like the case, from a mechanical standpoint you can't even surprise these things, usually, let alone ambush them or destroy them. They take six actions, do enough damage to one-shot each hunter on the team, have supernatural senses, etc. It kind of puts the lie to the whole 'We can't risk being spotted, they outnumber us' setting conceit in general. That is my favorite part of nWoD. It really brought the power levels back down to earth. It's been said before but oWoD was never sure if it wanted to be gothic horror or angsty super heroes.
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Dec 13, 2013 21:05
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LeJackal posted:This is a laugh. Stealth's level 5 Gift is total invisibility - which does not break even in combat. Its the best form of stealth in the system. Uh, sure, but mechanically it's a -5 to be targeted, and only with direct vision-based senses. A vampire with level 1 Auspex can clearly hear you coming, pretty much every kind of mage can sense you easily, and even a hunter can spot you pretty easily with, say, the Invisible Fence Tactic. And that's a 5-dot ability, which is a lot of experience to sink into an ability a Changeling or Vampire can decently emulate at character gen. The best form of stealth in the system in a physical sense is Forces 5, since you can literally just bend light around yourself and nullify all sounds and energy emissions your body makes. In a non-physical sense it is Mind 5 since you can keep people from even remembering you exist. EDIT: For what it's worth, I was wrong, Prometheans have the worst stealth. Poor guys. Augustin Iturbide fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Dec 13, 2013 |
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Dec 13, 2013 21:16
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Captain Oblivious posted:It's been said before but oWoD was never sure if it wanted to be gothic horror or angsty super heroes. Why choose when you can appeal to both tastes and get more cash? Predictably, it got a bit out of hand.
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Dec 13, 2013 21:19
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Augustin Iturbide posted:Uh, sure, but mechanically it's a -5 to be targeted, and only with direct vision-based senses. No, its not. WtF Rules posted:Success: The user may move and fight as normal. Perception and detection rolls to recognize or spot her suffer a –5 penalty, except those based strictly on smell or sound. nWoD Core posted:Characters who cannot see at all must attack enemies almost as if those opponents are fully concealed. They cannot be targeted at all; shots are taken in the dark, literally. Your character chooses a direction in which he stages his attack - whether close or ranged combat - guessing where his intended target might be. To even have a hope of hitting, your character must direct his attack at the target's location. If he's not even pointing in the right direction (he fires to the right, but the target is behind him), there is no chance to hit. The Storyteller rolls some dice anyway and ignores the result, to keep you from deducing the target's true location. Augustin Iturbide posted:A vampire with level 1 Auspex can clearly hear you coming, pretty much every kind of mage can sense you easily, and even a hunter can spot you pretty easily with, say, the Invisible Fence Tactic. To do so the Vampire needs to have Auspex 1 on and listening, dangerous/useless if there is a fight (or any chance of loud overwhelming sounds) and also overcome the penalties associated with the lower-level Stealth gifts and the werewolf's natural stealth. Said stealth-gifts and other bobbers also give him bonuses against sniffing too.  Blah! My deadly werewolf opponent just Vanished! I will activate my Auspex, and hope no sounds of battle rattle my senses! Bluh! Its hard to beat his reflexive Stealth rolls with the penalties from his other gifts! Blah! Now the penalties are worse as he attacks me every turn I spend searching for him. Blah!A Mage would have to be using certain Arcana and likely have contested rolls to penetrate, anyway. The Invisible Fence tactic is geared at and uses mechanics of Obfuscate as its lynchpin, I imagine its effectiveness at corralling an invisible foe that can stab you in the face while still invisible is highly limited.  Okay guys, lets do this just like with the vampire! join hands in a big ole circle to corral the invisible critter in! The vampire that turns visible again if he tries to attacks somebody, or manipulates something, and all that? Yeah, just like that guy! We pin him in the circle and close in until we touch him and his cloak breaks! But what if this big honking werewolf can stab us in the face and stay invisible? (Or just jump right over our circle.) Well then we'd know where he is, generally! So we all break the circle to attack him then? Letting him run away? And if we miss, we hit each other? Its a solid plan!You do realize how stupid it would be if a level 5 supernatural ability could be completely negated with a level 1 ability, right? Augustin Iturbide posted:And that's a 5-dot ability, which is a lot of experience to sink into an ability a Changeling or Vampire can decently emulate at character gen. They can emulate it about as well as fiberglass model of a Formula 1 car can emulate the real deal. LeJackal fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Dec 13, 2013 |
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Dec 13, 2013 21:44
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| # ? May 23, 2024 12:29 |
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Night10194 posted:The sad part is, like most of White Wolf's stuff, there was a really cool idea at the base of Hunter: The Reckoning. The idea that these arrogant bastards have called you livestock forever and grown complacent that they control the world and can hide whatever atrocities they feel like committing, totally unaccountable to the humans they treat like slaves, and that suddenly you can see them, you have a few edges to even the odds in your desperate struggle, and you and your friends need to teach these arrogant bastards the meaning of fear. This is a cool setup for a desperate and very angry game, where the chances are pretty high you'll get yourself killed but you might flip the checkers table on the supernaturals in the process. It's just that, as has often felt like the case, from a mechanical standpoint you can't even surprise these things, usually, let alone ambush them or destroy them. They take six actions, do enough damage to one-shot each hunter on the team, have supernatural senses, etc. It kind of puts the lie to the whole 'We can't risk being spotted, they outnumber us' setting conceit in general. Also... the fact that the monsters are much stronger than hunters? The ST should use that to encourage alternate possibilities for dealing with them than direct combat. (Side note: the only actual Hunter-themed game I've played used the Unknown Armies system, including the sanity meters. I loved it.) Feinne posted:If I remember right in principle if you are doing it right the Path of Night works by deciding that Vampires and the evil they do are actually part of the greater good ordained by God, and thus Vampires should embrace (no pun intended) their villainous role. In practice it seems rife for similar abuse as the Ravnos' Path of Paradox, where people don't bother to actually get the point and just take it as an excuse to be Literally Snidely Whiplash. V:tM Corebook posted:10 Killing a mortal for food Really, though, Paths should only be allowed for players who can handle them. Same thing with loving Derangements and by definition, Malkavians.
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Dec 13, 2013 21:58
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