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Right, it's 'make me a list so I can get my rear end handed to me at a tournament' time. I'm really out of touch with this edition and am struggling to think of ideas. I actually haven't even picked up the latest WoC book yet, so here's just a lot of things I have: 35 khorne marauders (any armament) 25 nurgle marauders (likewise) 15 dogs 5 knights 20 warriors of chaos, variety of weapons 26 chaos dwarves with fireglaives 20 bloodletters which I can mix in with khorne marauders or warriors 20 hobgoblins 1 ghorgon/giant sized monster Characters: 3 chaos lords on foot 1 sorcerer on foot 3 chaos dwarf characters (the FW pack) Valkia the bloody (usually used as a BSB) Drazorath the Ashen Essentially, what do I need to buy that's an absolute auto-include in the force? I'm a big fan of conversions and thematically appropriate stand ins so there's some leeway as to what I can turn this motley crew into. Not too averse to picking up more FW chaos dwarves, though I'd much prefer to only have to spend 50 or so quid on it. Any vague thoughts as to what might be useable?
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Dec 11, 2013 14:02
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Not a viking posted:I got the impression that choosing deamonic steed or juggernaught is dependant on taste more than what os "better". One is a bit more killy, but you need to be frenzied to use it. If you are running a Chaos Lord on a Jugger you can stick him with Skullcrushers. Maybe even your BSB, but that quickly becomes a super expensive unit. Also the Daemonic Mount is 35 points and, yeah, requires no mark, where the Jugger is 55 points and requires Khorne. Each of the mount options has a use, but I think Daemonic Mount (general purpose increase to toughness and an extra wound), Disc of Tzeentch (flying) and the Hellstrider (Sorcerer of Slaanesh Choir Bomb Bus) are all more useful than the jugger, though I like the look of the Jugger the best. lenoon posted:Essentially, what do I need to buy that's an absolute auto-include in the force? I'm a big fan of conversions and thematically appropriate stand ins so there's some leeway as to what I can turn this motley crew into. Not too averse to picking up more FW chaos dwarves, though I'd much prefer to only have to spend 50 or so quid on it. Your current models are uhh... well, Chaos Dwarves, Bloodletters, and Hobgoblins are all not in the book this edition, but building a Chaos Dwarf army is going to run you way more than 50 quid. In fact if your total budget is 50 pounds, its going to be really hard to make a high point army. What is the points total for the tournament? Laphroaig fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Dec 11, 2013 |
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Dec 11, 2013 16:13
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Laphroaig posted:Your current models are uhh... well, Chaos Dwarves, Bloodletters, and Hobgoblins are all not in the book this edition, but building a Chaos Dwarf army is going to run you way more than 50 quid. In fact if your total budget is 50 pounds, its going to be really hard to make a high point army. What is the points total for the tournament? Warriors are crazy points so he could actually field a (not very good) 2400 army with those models and ~£50. For example, adding a daemon prince gives a great unit that can be a boatload of points (spend the rest of the £50 on spare bases and bits to kitbash another prince or two in case any of your warriors turn into one?). Then you can do something like: * Daemon Prince (chaos armour, demonic flight, mark of nurgle, level 4, lore of death, flaming breath, scaled skin, soulfeeder, dragonbane gem, charmed shield, other trickster's shard) - 530pts * Chaos Sorcerer (level 1, mark of tzeentch, lore of tzeentch, dispel scroll) - 145pts * Exalted Hero (bsb, mark of nurgle, shield, flail, talisman of preservation, scaled skin) - 218pts * Another Exalted Hero with a bit of kit ~170pts * 40 Marauders (pretend your khorne ones are mark of nurgle, flails, full command) - 430pts * 10 Marauders (full command) - 90pts * 3x5 Warhounds - 90pts * 5 Knights (mark of nurgle, ensorcelled weapons, full command, banner of swiftness) - 270pts * 10 Chosen (use the warriors as proxies (halberds, mark of nurgle, champion and muso)) - 250pts * A goddamn Giant - 200pts Which comes out about 2400 unless my maths is disastrously wrong. I'm sure you could make it much better by using more proxies and dropping a lot of the gubbins in the list that's there to take up points. Basically, add a Daemon Prince. Edit: I am an idiot and listed scaled skin twice, so remove that from the Exalted bsb and give him an enchanted shield or something. flowerpot chimp fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Dec 11, 2013 |
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Dec 11, 2013 17:56
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Edit: thanks, that's awesome. Will have to think about a decent daemon prince model as I really don't like the plastic one. It wouldn't be a chaos dwarf army. The way I work is with mixed units on a theme to make them look good. The bloodletters are there essentially to bulk up either marauders or warriors of khorne. They are clearly the units they are bought as, but have a little more character an are a little more personal/unique. The Nurgle marauders are a box of gors mixed with a box of plaguebearers. All my other units are similar. The current plan is to take my big blocks of marauders to flank a big block of warriors. Use the allying in chaos dwarf rules (one character, one infernally unit included as special, one warmachine as a rare choice). Include the ghorgon (which I'm happy to dissemble and reassemble with some serious conversion work) as any giant-base sized monster. So roughly off the top of my head, two blocks of marauders, a 30 man unit of warriors, about 400 points of chaos dwarves already, something in the two hundred point range for a giant/siege giant/chimera/slaughterbrute, associate characters comes to nearly 2000 points, if they get all the trimmings. The fifty quid comes from this: if there's units I should 100% auto include, I have 50 quid to get either them, or appropriately themed stand-in models on the correct base size which I can convert to fit. So, if a chimera is an auto include, part of that money goes to buying wings and bits to mess around with the ghorgon to make it an acceptable chimera stand in. If a gorebeast chariot is, I'll have to buy that, or another (cheaper) kit that I can do something similar with. The Orc plastic chariot with warrior crew pulled by a spawn would do fine for example lenoon fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Dec 11, 2013 |
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Dec 11, 2013 17:58
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Sorry to double post but I'm on my phone so it's hard to edit. 50 quid can get an awful lot of you're willing to do conversion work to fit the theme of the army. Big load of cheap orcs on eBay? Give them red skin, spawn parts and some green stuff and you've got marauders! Black orcs become warriors or chosen, skull pass dwarves turn into chaos dwarves with the simple change of removing their heads and replacing them with spare marauder shoulder pads. That one hundred pound forgeworld monster is also a 30 quid GW one with half a bits box strategically stapled to it. This hobby is expensive, but it doesn't have to be prohibitively so if you're creative (and stick to a theme so opponents know what they're facing)
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Dec 11, 2013 18:25
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lenoon posted:Hey lets do it! Finally we can have that game and maybe get some practice in as well. Fast food knight, I'm rusty as all hell - fancy some practice games? Yeah absolutely. Post on the Dark Sphere Games workshop group, we play monday nights and the new unit has 16 tables. I am free to play some weekdays as well, post on the facebook about booking practice games for Ill Blood. The whole monday night club will jump to play you. e: A note on putting together your lists form the models you have: 'counts as' models are fine, like mixing bloodletters in to your blocks as filler. Nobody minds, and it's fine for the event.
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Dec 11, 2013 19:30
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Cool will do. All my models are painted and based to the same theme. I just find things like warriors can be so mono-pose that it's nice to break up the silhouette of the unit
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Dec 11, 2013 19:45
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Definitely. I don't think any of the club regulars don't use unit fillers. I personally run my corpse cart as a filler because it's useless but I like the model. Also my army is about 20% GW models....
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Dec 11, 2013 21:04
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Man, Ash Storm is such a bonkers spell. Flammable Ogres vs flame cannon, K'daai, Flames of Azgorh, breath weapons from my general's dark forged weapon... 
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Dec 11, 2013 22:41
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lenoon posted:Edit: thanks, that's awesome. Will have to think about a decent daemon prince model as I really don't like the plastic one. Be'Lakor - I saw you waxing lyrical about him in the other thread so why not use him? Edit: This has nothing at all to do with the fact that I have an unassembled metal Be'Lakor sitting in my cupboard. Edit 2: Nothing at all.  Edit 3: I just bought my Ill Blood ticket! I will have to start getting some practice games in. FFK and lenoon - let's do it! Squibsy fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Dec 11, 2013 |
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Dec 11, 2013 23:46
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I just spent 420 dollars on WHFB. I do not know anyone else who plays this game, and my WH40k army is still unpainted.
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Dec 12, 2013 00:14
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One of us. Edit: Which army? This is important.
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Dec 12, 2013 00:36
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Khorne WoC. I wanted to do it in Wh40k but couldn't justify changing armies again, so I tricked my interior logic by buying the army I wanted for a different game!
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Dec 12, 2013 00:47
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Sound reasoning I'd say.
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Dec 12, 2013 00:49
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So on Friday I'm getting a giant box containing 4 boxes of Warriors, 2 Chariots, 2 Skulltakers, and a Khorne Lord on Juggernaut. None of it will ever be painted.
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Dec 12, 2013 01:36
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Logical. I like it.
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Dec 12, 2013 01:37
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You could probably use a hellcannon too. PS a friend of mine left me his warhams after he moved to South Beach and I finally got around to digging through his stuff. Turns out I have (in addition to my nearly 3000 pts of orcs and goblins) somewhere around 2000 pts of Lizardmen and 1000 pts of Bretonnia. I look forward to never painting any of them.
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Dec 12, 2013 01:40
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lenoon posted:Edit: thanks, that's awesome. Will have to think about a decent daemon prince model as I really don't like the plastic one. 
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Dec 12, 2013 02:16
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I use Be'lakor as my Daemon Prince. He's one of the best models GW has ever made, even if he is kinda small compared to the newer Daemon Prince kit. Just look at this loving guy:  Unfortunately only available as Finecast now, I was lucky enough to find the metal version in stock at my FLGS.
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Dec 12, 2013 03:02
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I kitbashed the Daemon Prince (plastic model) with Terrorgheist wings and am thinking about drilling out his eyes and putting in synthetic rubies. In general I was considering a gemstone theme for my WoC.
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Dec 12, 2013 04:23
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Edit: scratch that, into the dettol he goes!
lenoon fucked around with this message at 10:03 on Dec 12, 2013 |
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Dec 12, 2013 08:33
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I just started a map campaign at my club and the skill level amongst the players is kind of uneven. I was wondering what two players can do to make a game more enjoyable if they have very different skill levels. I'm not talking about in the campaign since we already have mechanics to make things a little less lop-sided. I mean in the actual game. I was thinking one good way for me if I where to play a less experienced player was to kind of coach him or warn him if he was about to make a big mistake against me. But it could be hard to strike a good balance between too much help and just enough to not make him feel I'm running the entire game.
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Dec 12, 2013 11:43
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Posy match debrief on what you thought went wrong and why is always good. Run some less optimal but fun units. No 6 dicing. That's about all I have.
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Dec 12, 2013 12:33
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Lopsided scenarios or terrain? One thing I've learned from Infinity is that it can be a great idea to have a strictly 'better' half of the table so that choosing to go second with choice of deployment zone can actually be a competitive decision. Granted Infinity has different pre-game rules and very different mechanics but you could experiment with that.
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Dec 12, 2013 13:35
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I think I'd just try to play in a way that they got to execute their game plan, while you defend against it. I'm not suggesting a gunline list or something like that of course, I just mean playing really conservatively in the first turn or two, so they can spread their formation and play whatever it was they wanted to try. It's important to let their plan unfold, since it's easy to get mad if someone is screaming around with fast-movers and hexes loving up all your movement and timing. If your unskilled opponent gets to more or less run his plan, he won't be nearly as upset; he got to do his thing, it didn't work, so he'll come up with something new and improved for next time. That's where your after-game review comes in. Trying to coach a player during a game beyond an occasional reminder is not going to go well. People don't play games like these to have someone else do their thinking for them, and it'll either make them disengaged or resentful, depending on the person.
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Dec 12, 2013 14:21
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Could not have put it better. Words to game by right there.
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Dec 12, 2013 15:01
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Fast_Food_Knight posted:Definitely. I don't think any of the club regulars don't use unit fillers. I personally run my corpse cart as a filler because it's useless but I like the model. Also my army is about 20% GW models.... How do you get it to fit in a regiment of 20mm bases? Also, I finished my Wight King BSB, and I'm very happy with the result. So much so, that here's a huge image dump:      
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Dec 12, 2013 18:04
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TheBlobThing posted:How do you get it to fit in a regiment of 20mm bases? whoaaaaaaa! I really like the detail on the chainmail.
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Dec 12, 2013 18:28
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If anybody is thinking of starting a High Elf army in the near future, I have a decent lot of HE plastics up in the SA Mart: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3592888
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Dec 13, 2013 03:33
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So I have 40 Warriors, a Khorne Lord, and 6 Skullcrushers, and no idea how to equip them. What should they be using?
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Dec 13, 2013 21:36
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Cross-posting an elf as it's christmas First non-40k model in years.  (base needs finishing but the rest is done)
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Dec 13, 2013 21:40
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SUPER NEAT TOY posted:So I have 40 Warriors, a Khorne Lord, and 6 Skullcrushers, and no idea how to equip them. What should they be using? WoC should use 9 times out of 10 Halberd's with shields. Just gear them that way. If you don't have halberds, you can either buy them or make them or just give them hand weapons and shields and say they're halberds. Skullcrushers should be using Ensorcelled Weapons. I like the look of the lances so I go with the lances.
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Dec 13, 2013 21:49
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Laphroaig posted:WoC should use 9 times out of 10 Halberd's with shields. Just gear them that way. If you don't have halberds, you can either buy them or make them or just give them hand weapons and shields and say they're halberds. As someone who plays against WoC all the time I highly recommend you go with neither halberds nor shields for your fightmans. For, uh, reasons.
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Dec 13, 2013 22:40
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Beautiful Flower posted:As someone who plays against WoC all the time I highly recommend you go with neither halberds nor shields for your fightmans. For, uh, reasons. yeah throw them away and get only marauders.
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Dec 13, 2013 23:08
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richyp posted:Cross-posting an elf as it's christmas I have missed your painting since I stopped following the 40k thread and the painting thread.
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Dec 14, 2013 08:40
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Hey, just a small bump for my SA mart thread - I'm mostly selling 40k stuff and some odds and ends, but I am also selling 3 Empire cannon/mortar sets, check it out here: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3594536
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Dec 14, 2013 23:05
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Laphroaig posted:WoC should use 9 times out of 10 Halberd's with shields. Just gear them that way. If you don't have halberds, you can either buy them or make them or just give them hand weapons and shields and say they're halberds. In addition to the above excellent advice, warriors are pretty boss when you slap the mark of nurgle on them as well. That -1 to hit in cc can be pretty beastly. As for the Khorne lord, I think using him as an exalted and making him a bsb is a fun choice. Put him on a jugger or demonic mount with a shield. If you want him to have a bit more longevity, the talisman of preservation isn't a bad choice for a 4+ ward. Then maybe a halberd to go with it. If you want him to just straight up molly whop stuff maybe give him the Ogre blade and Soul Feeder to get back a wound or two since there will undoubtedly be a lot of cannonballs and spells flying his way, doubly so if you run him in a unit of skullcrushers.
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Dec 16, 2013 06:43
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Pokemaster #421 posted:In addition to the above excellent advice, warriors are pretty boss when you slap the mark of nurgle on them as well. That -1 to hit in cc can be pretty beastly. As for the Khorne lord, I think using him as an exalted and making him a bsb is a fun choice. Put him on a jugger or demonic mount with a shield. If you want him to have a bit more longevity, the talisman of preservation isn't a bad choice for a 4+ ward. Then maybe a halberd to go with it. If you want him to just straight up molly whop stuff maybe give him the Ogre blade and Soul Feeder to get back a wound or two since there will undoubtedly be a lot of cannonballs and spells flying his way, doubly so if you run him in a unit of skullcrushers. I like the look of the shield + lances on the Skullcrushers, as for the Lord, choose whatever options in the kit look coolest to you personally and don't worry too much about it since WYSIWYG is not required in terms of magic item kit.
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Dec 17, 2013 21:58
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Laphroaig posted:I like the look of the shield + lances on the Skullcrushers, as for the Lord, choose whatever options in the kit look coolest to you personally and don't worry too much about it since WYSIWYG is not required in terms of magic item kit. Yeah the only minor, minor, downside the the skullcrushers kit IMO are the hand weapons, which are these teeny little axes that just don't have the same scale as the rest of the model (aside from the unit champ's axe). I wish they were more like the chaos knight weapons in terms of size. Maybe it's time for a little swapping... The lances do look pretty gnarly though, it's a shame I already glued up a guy with the midget axe or I'd switch it around. Oh well live and learn.
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Dec 19, 2013 03:00
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So I'm thinking of getting into WHFB, but I need to know: can you use Daemons in both 40k and WHFB? I've read online that you can use models with "whatever base they came with", and since the Daemon boxes come with round and square bases that shouldn't be an issue. But the owner of my local GW is insistent that you need square bases for fantasy and round ones for 40k, so when I build my Daemons I have to commit to one or the other. I could use magnets on their feet and swap the bases at my convenience but I dunno. It'd be obvious to everyone what I was doing, so I'd get called out on it. I didn't bring it up with the guy in the store because it seemed a bit cheeky. Does anyone know for certain?
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Dec 19, 2013 15:15
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