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SatansBestBuddy posted:I find it funny that most people keep saying that Hussie needs an editor, because isn't that part of the reason why he decided to stop updating until he finished the comic, so he could edit it properly before posting it? But I, at least, think that him waiting and releasing everything at once is a fantastic plan.
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Dec 14, 2013 05:12
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Titty Hero posted:Yes. Vriska is the General Leo of Homestuck. You gotta kill off the coolest character or else they'll overshadow everyone else.
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Dec 14, 2013 05:43
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SatansBestBuddy posted:I find it funny that most people keep saying that Hussie needs an editor, because isn't that part of the reason why he decided to stop updating until he finished the comic, so he could edit it properly before posting it? One of the best things that an editor can do is offer a different point of view on the work in question. They can catch things that the writer doesn't see, and that's not something Hussie will get by holding off and editing things on his own. Tengames posted:Vriska is the General Leo of Homestuck. You gotta kill off the coolest character or else they'll overshadow everyone else. Maybe they'll resurrect her by abusing glitches and horribly breaking the game 
Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Dec 14, 2013 |
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Dec 14, 2013 05:44
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What'S funny is that despite all the talk about all the horrible side characters taking the spotlight, most appear only once and then stay in the background afterward. Like most of the pre-scratch Trolls. Or most of the dead trolls, who are only vaguely around in the dream bubbles in some way. You know, in media, random side-characters do exist. They're not the center of the story. They're just there, in the background. Being not important.
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Dec 14, 2013 06:25
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They still gently caress up the pacing really badly and then wind up being incidental anyways. e: like seriously when you have a character who does nothing for a large portion of your story except just loving give exposition on people who showed up after the midway point you are committing a crime against something or other
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Dec 14, 2013 07:02
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I enjoyed the flashes with all the pre-scratch trolls in them but it was mostly because I was laughing at the jokes that they were making The comic would probably be much better without them though
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Dec 14, 2013 07:04
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MonsieurChoc posted:What'S funny is that despite all the talk about all the horrible side characters taking the spotlight, most appear only once and then stay in the background afterward. Like most of the pre-scratch Trolls. Or most of the dead trolls, who are only vaguely around in the dream bubbles in some way. You know, in media, random side-characters do exist. They're not the center of the story. They're just there, in the background. Being not important. That's really not what it's like in Homestuck at all. Some truly minor characters like Nepeta and most of the pre-scratch trolls, sure, they disappear into the background, but the last update series before this hiatus had so much going on and so many characters flying around that it required regular zoomed-out maps showing where everyone is and what they were doing - and none of it featured John, the nominal protagonist! People counted the real-time years between conversations between John and Dave, supposed bros for life. The four main characters really struggle to get on screen these days. Vriska explicitly tries to muscle in on being a main character constantly, Aranea and Meenah have both taken up a lot of precious screentime in act 6, Caliborn and Calliope have become the developed face of Lord English so they need plenty of time, we've still got Gamzee's clown bullshit, both the Becs have come roaring back into the story, the Mayor keeps getting batted about, the Condesce is making a doomed play for being the main villain, there's still three living trolls running around with the kids, there's the four new kids, then finally there's the four old kids. That's a lot of people to spread the plot between! On editing, it's still probably the case that taking his time and doing the finale all at once will probably result in a better, more coherent ending than he'd otherwise produce. Honestly, if the Adventure Game and Namco High weren't on his radar I don't think he could bring the story to a close via day to day updates, he seems to have a compulsive desire to spin things out. A good external editor would make an even bigger difference, but this should probably help.
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Dec 14, 2013 07:10
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Dolash posted:Vriska explicitly tries to muscle in on being a main character constantly ...so you're saying she's a main character, is what you're saying.
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Dec 14, 2013 07:16
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Dolash posted:That's really not what it's like in Homestuck at all. Some truly minor characters like Nepeta and most of the pre-scratch trolls, sure, they disappear into the background, but the last update series before this hiatus had so much going on and so many characters flying around that it required regular zoomed-out maps showing where everyone is and what they were doing - and none of it featured John, the nominal protagonist! People counted the real-time years between conversations between John and Dave, supposed bros for life. The four main characters really struggle to get on screen these days. That still doesn't seem anywhere near as bad as people keep making it out to be, but whatevs. Someone's important character is someone else's distraction, and I'm not invested in the argument anyway. I just thought it was funny how many people hated the pre-scratch troll for taking too much time/space, while 10 of them were just there for one joke and then became background characters.
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Dec 14, 2013 07:21
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Seoinin posted:...so you're saying she's a main character, is what you're saying. Her and the other 20ish chucklefucks.
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Dec 14, 2013 07:24
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I am curious why this thread is in games and stickied...
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Dec 14, 2013 07:31
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Gensuki posted:I am curious why this thread is in games and stickied... Merry Christmas!
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Dec 14, 2013 07:38
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Gensuki posted:I am curious why this thread is in games and stickied... Because Namco High is coming out in 3 days man!
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Dec 14, 2013 07:38
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It was decided that the Homestuck thread did not belong in the webcomics forum due to not meeting the requirements to be constituted a webcomic as per the Wikipedia's "Ruling on Notable Webcomics" policy, therefore it was moved to games, as it is the closest thing to what Homestuck actually is (as it follows the same blend of narrative driven pseudo interactivity as seen in games like Beyond: Two Souls, and is counted as an indie derivative of that genre). They've been discussing this for weeks, have you not noticed at all?
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Dec 14, 2013 07:39
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Tiler Kiwi posted:They've been discussing this for weeks, have you not noticed at all? I stopped looking at the homestuck forum when it went on hiatus. I just saw this in Games one day and got confused...
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Dec 14, 2013 07:50
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Seoinin posted:...so you're saying she's a main character, is what you're saying. If anything the story's made a point of showing that she's not, she just has main character aspirations. Her whole character arc appears to be culminating in the realization that she doesn't have to force herself to be the hero and center of attention, as currently demonstrated by Aranea's ham-handed attempt to become the star and how badly that's going.
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Dec 14, 2013 07:54
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Gensuki posted:I stopped looking at the homestuck forum when it went on hiatus. I like you. You wanna buy a bridge?
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Dec 14, 2013 08:00
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Gensuki posted:I stopped looking at the homestuck forum when it went on hiatus. Psst. They're making fun of you. 
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Dec 14, 2013 08:03
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Tiler Kiwi posted:I like you. You wanna buy a bridge? I'll bid $20 on the bridge in red.
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Dec 14, 2013 08:38
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Maybe it's my attachment to Dave but I really wish the comic had just stuck with the original kids and maybe the trolls. As much as I liked the slow reveal as to whether the name was gonna be Dick or Dirk, it just got messier and messier from everything past the trolls' induction into the main story.
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Dec 14, 2013 11:09
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Dolash posted:The pre-scratch trolls are a symptom of the problem. This is why the job of an editor is tough - just because something's fun doesn't always make it a worthwhile addition to the story. At best the pre-scratch trolls could've been a one-off joke that never reappears, and even then people were suffering introduction fatigue by that point. Instead Aranea basically took over the whole direction of the story and even as much as people like Meenah that's time that should've been spent building the actual main characters back up. This is arguably the point of burying almost all of the pre-scratch Troll stuff in a bunch of walkaround minigames; you have the option of running straight to the objective without talking to any of these weird colourful losers, only being forced to endure a couple of scripted chats that are actually of importance to the plot. Except in practice it didn't actually work like that, because most of the walkarounds are bloated nonsense that in true adventure game style actually require you to talk to everybody multiple times in order to advance, and Meenah checking in on her terrible friends is presented as the whole point. So yeah, I think those minigames could use some streamlining to make them more obviously optional, but other than that e/ also trollpocalypse probably. MonsieurChoc posted:What'S funny is that despite all the talk about all the horrible side characters taking the spotlight, most appear only once and then stay in the background afterward. Like most of the pre-scratch Trolls. Or most of the dead trolls, who are only vaguely around in the dream bubbles in some way. You know, in media, random side-characters do exist. They're not the center of the story. They're just there, in the background. Being not important. I'm checking the map and it looks like apart from the ghost-ship thing in A6A5 (which is actually mostly Vriska  Meenah) and Aranea's earlier meddling with the Alpha kids, the dancestors are pretty much all locked up in A6I3? It probably seems like they got way more play because jesus, those adventure games were so loving long  (and for serial readers, essentially unskippable)e/ tl;dr it's a game design editor that's needed more than a literary one Renaissance Robot fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Dec 14, 2013 |
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Dec 14, 2013 17:49
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CJacobs posted:Maybe it's my attachment to Dave but I really wish the comic had just stuck with the original kids and maybe the trolls. As much as I liked the slow reveal as to whether the name was gonna be Dick or Dirk, it just got messier and messier from everything past the trolls' induction into the main story. Yeah this is pretty much exactly how I feel. Introducing the alternate timeline kids and taking the spotlight away from the original four for an entire year was the dumbest idea. Didn't really help that Roxy was the only one that was slightly interesting.
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Dec 14, 2013 18:22
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I'm going to preface this by saying I was introduced to Homestuck by bladekindEyewear himself over irc chat and uh, yeah. Long story that I may relate another time. Everything about Act 6 stinks to me. I don't care about Jane or Jake, I loathe Dirk, the Beforus trolls are a joke that's overstayed their welcome, and Roxy can't carry them. Hussie dragged out what should have been the penultimate arc to over half the comic's length trying to get us to give a poo poo about these new chucklefucks and explain time mechanics and he failed. I like the original kids, I like the first set of trolls, I like the opening acts. If we had stayed with those guys instead of going down tumblr-mock-land and giving the fans another Ampora to romanticise, I wouldn't have gotten so tired of the bullshit. Instead we have another 16 characters, like two new villains trying to share space with English, and English's backstory to boot. I have a whole bunch of other complaints but those are the relavent ones. Ditch everybody introduced in Act 6 except Caliborn, stay with the kids, work from there. I wish I was an actual editor so I could spout this and be justified, but that's how I feel.
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Dec 15, 2013 00:08
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The Deleter posted:I'm going to preface this by saying I was introduced to Homestuck by bladekindEyewear himself over irc chat and uh, yeah. Long story that I may relate another time. No time like the present. 
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Dec 15, 2013 00:13
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I feel like the entirety of Act 6 is an example of Hussie trying yet another new plot innovation and realizing too late that he bit off more than he could chew. It's happened before - the entire Doc Scratch intermission was, at least partly, a cover-up for a botched Flash animation that would have taken way too long to do properly - but there wasn't any way around the post-scratch kids besides just erasing the last six months of updates from their introduction. Instead he just kept piling more stuff on to distract from them, but then the new elements needed their own follow-through and resolution, and the dreambubble crap meant that previously-resolved plot elements no longer were, and on and on and on. I like to think there's a reason why the latter half of Act 6 is dedicated almost entirely to hammering in why the post-scratch kids (sans Roxy) are total failures as people. There's not much hope for a proper ending to the whole story, it's gotten too big for that. I just want the Good Characters to get half-decent endings instead of becoming the latest victims of Hussie's smirking anti-climaxes.
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Dec 15, 2013 00:43
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Angry Walrus posted:No time like the present. Truer words were never spoken. About two years ago I spent my spare time roleplaying mostly in play-by-post rpg stuff on various forums, and about a year or two back I decided I'd had enough of rolling virtual dice and trying to be fantasy Idris Elba. However, the average "freeform" role play community tends to be insular and of dubious quality, so I didn't want to go just anywhere and end up somewhere that made GameFAQs look intelligent. One guy pointed me to the MSPA Forums - specifically Grand Battles, a writing competition themed as a multi-dimensional survival challenge where the losing character was killed at the end of each round. Being naive and not seeing the issue with eight people trying to collaborate and compete within one work at the same time, I skipped along. At this point, I only had a vague inkling of what Homestuck was. I knew trolls existed and were related to it, but that was it. Grand Battles turned out to be terrible. Tiny, insular, pretentious and defensive, I never got on with the majority of them. It didn't help that the "battle" threads were prolific as gently caress and all uniquely bad. But this isn't about them. bladekindEyewear was there, under a name I can't remember. I guess I got on with him to an extent because I didn't know who he was. I remember having a bustup with him over one of his characters being terrible. But otherwise we were civil. He told me about the thing we call Homestuck and that the MSPA forums were the official forums. He asked if I wanted to read it. I don't remember much. I believe I gave him my reactions as I read, and he in turn sperged back at me with his theories. I think we got to partway through Act 6 Act 2 before I abandoned ship from Grand Battles. I didn't know who he was until a year later when I found the last Homestuck thread here and wondered why his tumblr avatar looked familiar. I don't roleplay anymore. I didn't speak to that guy that pointed me there again. I just sit here and despair over the hours lost to Homestuck and wondering why I didn't do something productive instead of watching someone get mad about their Mary Sue on irc chat. I need a drink just remembering all that.
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Dec 15, 2013 00:46
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Man this thread swap is drawing out all kinds of interesting confessions about people's dark internet pasts.
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Dec 15, 2013 00:53
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The Deleter posted:bladekindEyewear was there, under a name I can't remember. It was BlastYoBoots. He created a specific thread for his own theories, separate from the forum's main speculation thread that dated back to the problem sleuth days. I used to argue with him a lot.
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Dec 15, 2013 00:55
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Tenebrais posted:It was BlastYoBoots. He created a specific thread for his own theories, separate from the forum's main speculation thread that dated back to the problem sleuth days. I used to argue with him a lot. That's iiiiit oh god why? He was so full of himself and he believed his theories so much and fuuuuuck Regy Rusty posted:Man this thread swap is drawing out all kinds of interesting confessions about people's dark internet pasts. One day I will realise that nobody gives a poo poo about what other people do on the internet, and I will be at peace. Today is not that day.
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Dec 15, 2013 00:58
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Tenebrais posted:It was BlastYoBoots. He created a specific thread for his own theories, separate from the forum's main speculation thread that dated back to the problem sleuth days. I used to argue with him a lot. Did he make it separate before or after he became a big name fan?
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Dec 15, 2013 00:59
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Regy Rusty posted:Man this thread swap is drawing out all kinds of interesting confessions about people's dark internet pasts. It really is the best Christmas present ever.
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Dec 15, 2013 01:04
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Oxxidation posted:I feel like the entirety of Act 6 is an example of Hussie trying yet another new plot innovation and realizing too late that he bit off more than he could chew. It's happened before - the entire Doc Scratch intermission was, at least partly, a cover-up for a botched Flash animation that would have taken way too long to do properly - Wait, did Hussie ever state this in his formspring, tumblr, twitter or whatever? Ammat The Ankh posted:It really is the best Christmas present ever. It truly is, like some people didn't notice but even the GBS joke gunnerkrigg thread got some people to start reading the comic too. Maybe there should be a thread exchange program between subforums, like what happened with the chickencheese thread.
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Dec 15, 2013 01:12
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Blackheart posted:Wait, did Hussie ever state this in his formspring, tumblr, twitter or whatever? Yeah, he did. That old formspring thing that was taken down forever ago, I think. He realized that the timeline of events and underlying concepts (like Terezi's seeing) would be incomprehensible if animated, and didn't want to spend months making an animation that couldn't be up to par for his imagination. quote:It truly is, like some people didn't notice but even the GBS joke gunnerkrigg thread got some people to start reading the comic too. Maybe there should be a thread exchange program between subforums, like what happened with the chickencheese thread. This thread had been void of any content or analysis at least since the hiatus announcement, and I can't imagine the discussion was any fun or interesting for the last few months of updates. Moving the thread to a more active forum that old readers still visited is breathing new life into it. I like it here.
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Dec 15, 2013 01:18
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Angry Walrus posted:Did he make it separate before or after he became a big name fan? Before. He didn't get known until his thread got merged into the real one and he moved to Tumblr. He was just always that arrogant. He justified his ability to predict the plots with the fact that he had predicted how the romantic arcs of Avatar the Last Airbender ended. I hadn't actually seen the series at the time so I didn't realise that that was even less impressive than it sounded. Tenebrais fucked around with this message at 01:32 on Dec 15, 2013 |
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Dec 15, 2013 01:30
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Hahaha, this guy just gets more and more amazing.
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Dec 15, 2013 01:36
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I made the mistake months ago of trying to argue with him over Tumblr why one of his theories was dumb. Man, what a waste of time. If I'm going to be a gross loser nerd, I'd rather have fun doing actual analysis then 'spec' or 'romspec' or whatever the gently caress he called it. I kind of feel bad for the guy though, from what little I talked to him, it didn't sound like he had much of anything else going on in his life save the attention he got for his theories.
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Dec 15, 2013 02:43
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His big thread on the MSPA forums was called the RomSpec thread, for Romantic Speculation, and he was very officious about trying to make clear that this was not the low, base art of shipping, but rather a gentleman's erudite pastime which traded only on discrete facts and data. He had a spreadsheet (not a shipping grid!!) indicating each character's level of romantic connection with each other and was determined that a) every character would be romantically paired off by the end of Homestuck and b) John and Rose were destined for each other, man, and if you didn't think so you just didn't have his perspicacious eye for the analysis of narrative data. In short, he was basically a huge John/Rose shipper who was too self-important to admit to himself that he liked shipping things. It was sad and funny at once.
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Dec 15, 2013 05:57
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*peers at scientific devices* Hrm, +13% likelihood of Karkat / Terezi today, Caruthers. Must be the low pressure front moving through.
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Dec 15, 2013 06:20
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It's a little known fact Albert Einstein's theory of Spacetime was about the Jade/Dave ship.
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Dec 15, 2013 06:31
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Ammat The Ankh posted:It's a little known fact Albert Einstein's theory of Spacetime was about the Jade/Dave ship. The less said about the theory of relativity, the better. 
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