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I want to see Manu in the mask so goddamn bad
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Dec 13, 2013 21:00
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So I think the most important question raised by this episode is did Tommy grow stubble in the afterlife?
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Dec 13, 2013 22:39
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hi liter posted:I want to see Manu in the mask so goddamn bad  
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Dec 13, 2013 22:43
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The Libearian posted:So I think the most important question raised by this episode is did Tommy grow stubble in the afterlife? Oliver always thought Tommy would look good with a bit of facial hair, so that's how he chooses to remember him.
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Dec 13, 2013 23:04
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There is one thing I know about Mirakuru that the producers said during an interview: the key to surviving the injection is anger. The angrier you are, and the deeper your anger runs, the more likely you are to pull through. It's why Brother Blood made everyone get psyche evals before he marked them as potential candidates. Maybe Brother Blood's 'control' has something to do with manipulating that?
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Dec 14, 2013 00:50
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Spergatory posted:There is one thing I know about Mirakuru that the producers said during an interview: the key to surviving the injection is anger. The angrier you are, and the deeper your anger runs, the more likely you are to pull through. It's why Brother Blood made everyone get psyche evals before he marked them as potential candidates. Maybe Brother Blood's 'control' has something to do with manipulating that? So Brother Blood went to the Darth Vader school of ally conversion? makes as much sense as anything I suppose.
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Dec 14, 2013 06:41
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hcreight posted:Oliver always thought Tommy would look good with a bit of facial hair, so that's how he chooses to remember him. I knew there was something going on there all along
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Dec 14, 2013 09:44
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Couple of things that occured to me: 1) What are the odds that the exploding particle accelerator only created one superhuman in Central City? 2) Slade's plan to corrupt the people Oliver loves could easily lead to the creation of the "Black" Canary. Slade tells Laurel what really happened to her sister on the island, then shoots her full of mad science drugs and sets her loose on Oliver. Avulsion fucked around with this message at 11:39 on Dec 14, 2013 |
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Dec 14, 2013 11:30
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Avulsion posted:Couple of things that occured to me: The creators have said that the Flash show gives them a chance to explore some of the more fantastical/mystical/magical heroes/villians while keeping Arrow grounded in some kind of relative realism, so I wouldn't be surprised if there's a whole bunch of consequences to the particle accelerator exploding.
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Dec 14, 2013 11:59
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VDay posted:The creators have said that the Flash show gives them a chance to explore some of the more fantastical/mystical/magical heroes/villians while keeping Arrow grounded in some kind of relative realism, so I wouldn't be surprised if there's a whole bunch of consequences to the particle accelerator exploding. I hope they keep the Flash relatively grounded, too. Not that it has to be completely realistic or anything, but I really don't want to see poo poo like straight-up magic or aliens yet. Stick to super-science for a while. And no time-travel or alternate universes, not in the first season at least. You need to build towards that kind of poo poo.
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Dec 14, 2013 12:40
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VDay posted:The creators have said that the Flash show gives them a chance to explore some of the more fantastical/mystical/magical heroes/villians while keeping Arrow grounded in some kind of relative realism, so I wouldn't be surprised if there's a whole bunch of consequences to the particle accelerator exploding. I actually don't like this at all. The idea of fantastical elements entering Arrow and the characters having to deal with these huge changes in how they see the world sounds much more interesting than having one 'grounded' show and one 'fantastical' show when we KNOW they're set in the same universe anyway.
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Dec 14, 2013 12:43
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Am I alone in thinking there absolutely has to be an annual crossover episode on each show?
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Dec 14, 2013 13:01
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The Lord Bude posted:Am I alone in thinking there absolutely has to be an annual crossover episode on each show? Yes. There should be like 4 or 5 per season.
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Dec 14, 2013 13:04
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There should be four or five crossover episodes per episode.
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Dec 14, 2013 13:10
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BreakAtmo posted:I actually don't like this at all. The idea of fantastical elements entering Arrow and the characters having to deal with these huge changes in how they see the world sounds much more interesting than having one 'grounded' show and one 'fantastical' show when we KNOW they're set in the same universe anyway. To be fair I'm just paraphrasing based on what (little) I remember about the interview. I think it's less about having Arrow be the serious, grounded show while Flash is super whacky magical fun hour and more about the Flash show opening some doors for them to explore characters that don't make 100% complete sense on Arrow. And yeah, they need to have Barry just randomly appear in every other episode of Arrow, even if for just one second or to just zoom by for 2-3 frames.
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Dec 14, 2013 13:53
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Spergatory posted:I hope they keep the Flash relatively grounded, too. It's a dude that got super powers from a scienced up lightning storm. Ship sailed on that one.
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Dec 14, 2013 14:07
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VDay posted:To be fair I'm just paraphrasing based on what (little) I remember about the interview. I think it's less about having Arrow be the serious, grounded show while Flash is super whacky magical fun hour and more about the Flash show opening some doors for them to explore characters that don't make 100% complete sense on Arrow. Ehh, I still don't like the idea of them sticking stuff in Flash just because it doesn't make much sense in Arrow. The shows are concretely set in the same universe - taking a concept or character that doesn't work in one and putting it in the other while never mentioning it feels silly to me. It feels like if there was a series of movies about another DCU character that had magic and stuff in it despite being established as set in the same universe as the Nolan Batman movies, and dealt with it by simply never mentioning it in the Batman films. If they're going to have magic and superpowers in this universe, just all the way - there's no logical reason why it would just never show up in Starling City. I mean, I'm probably being pedantic about something that won't be a huge deal, but I've never been a fan of the tendency for shows set in the same universe to feature huge events in one show that are never even mentioned in the other. Like how the impending rise of the First Evil is never so much as discussed in Angel S4, apart from a small crossover, and even then Angel only talks about the First in the Buffy episode. I want Arrow and Flash to flout that with semi-frequent crossovers and discussion of big events happening in each show, even if it's a throwaway line or a news broadcast. quote:And yeah, they need to have Barry just randomly appear in every other episode of Arrow, even if for just one second or to just zoom by for 2-3 frames. This, however, is the best possible idea.
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Dec 14, 2013 14:12
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Boogaleeboo posted:It's a dude that got super powers from a scienced up lightning storm. Ship sailed on that one. Since said dude may never use his super powers in a "proper" Arrow episode, no ship has sailed and we fans of a more grounded show can still have hopes that Arrow won't be ruined.
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Dec 14, 2013 14:27
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As for Arrow, how could you possibly pretend a show that has a super human bashing people around powered by a genetic formula developed by the Japanese in the 40s is, in any sense, 'grounded'?
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Dec 14, 2013 14:41
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Boogaleeboo posted:As for Arrow, how could you possibly pretend a show that has a super human bashing people around powered by a genetic formula developed by the Japanese in the 40s is, in any sense, 'grounded'? Because it's all relative. Yeah obviously if you stop and think about it than it's ridiculous that Ollie became a badass thanks to some training after a life of being a worthless jackass and Felicity can literally do anything and find any info they need with a tablet, but those things are still based on real world principles. Felicity may be a god drat wizard with a computer, but it's easier to accept that she's some super hacker compared to her being a literal wizard who can give Ollie any info he wants by closing her eyes and thinking about it. Functionally the two versions are the same, but one at least tries hard enough to justify itself to be passable in a mostly grounded show while the other is full blown alien/wizard/magic fantasy world.
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Dec 14, 2013 15:01
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Bear in mind that we haven't seen how Guggenheim et. al. define "more fantastical" and we're on the verge of whining over something we know nothing about. I mean, of course there's nothing wrong with having concerns with something you hear; I'm just worried about people losing perspective. DivisionPost fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Dec 14, 2013 |
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Dec 14, 2013 15:10
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VDay posted:but those things are still based on real world principles. I had a longer message but I realized 3/4ths through it that I can sum it up quickly: Earthquake machine.
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Dec 14, 2013 15:13
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Boogaleeboo posted:As for Arrow, how could you possibly pretend a show that has a super human bashing people around powered by a genetic formula developed by the Japanese in the 40s is, in any sense, 'grounded'? It is like the (new) Battlestar Galactica vs. Star Trek. You have faster-than-light travel in both shows, but one of them also has transporters, replicators, energy shields and weapons, holographic technology and hypo-sprays that can cure everything. While the other has ballistic weapons and armor plates, and robots that cannot assimilate whole worlds on their own. One of the shows is much more grounded in comparison to the other. So people injected with Miracle are much stronger and tougher than normal people, while Ollie has better reflexes and accuracy than should be normal for someone training a bit in the Jungle. That is still relatively grounded when compared to the things the Flash, Superman, Spiderman etc. can do.
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Dec 14, 2013 15:18
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Boogaleeboo posted:It's a dude that got super powers from a scienced up lightning storm. Ship sailed on that one. Not really. The keyword is relatively grounded. There are degrees of craziness. For example; Regular badassitude < impossible badassitude < super-technology < super-science < psychic powers < aliens < time travel < alternate universes < magic < literal gods, etc. Suspension of disbelief is elastic; you can stretch it out over time, but if you pull too far too fast, it snaps. Craziness is a sliding scale, and the issue isn't necessarily where on the scale your story lies-- it's where you start vs. where you end up. In other words, it's about how far you want us to stretch. Arrow has done a good job of starting off relatively grounded and slowly stretching us out over time, but if Flash goes full-stop with the crazy, they'll lose a lot of people. Right now, both Arrow and Flash are operating squarely in the super-science spectrum, and I think Flash should stay there for a good while before trying to move forward. That's all I'm saying.
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Dec 14, 2013 15:28
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Spergatory posted:Arrow has done a good job of starting off relatively grounded and slowly stretching us out over time 
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Dec 14, 2013 15:56
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Wolvorine posted:And we do so love how Arrow stretches us, oh yeah baby stretch us... Wolvorine, I do believe you might be looking for this thread.
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Dec 14, 2013 15:57
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Just caught up, really good episode, and i didn't dislike Barry, seems like they toned him down a little.. Don't care much for the mask, but as long as he doesn't grow a goatee and start wearing a silly hat, i can accept it.
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Dec 14, 2013 16:18
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I'm with everyone else on keeping the 'magic' and all that crap off the show. I'm sure the show writers could tackle it since they've already been writing a pretty good show. But lets face it you cant have a world based in science like Iron Man's and then smash it together with a world that contains magic like Thor's. It just wouldn't work, nobody would watch it, and it would fail horribly. The world just isn't ready to accept it and it can't be good regardless.
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Dec 14, 2013 16:35
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Oasx posted:Just caught up, really good episode, and i didn't dislike Barry, seems like they toned him down a little.. Don't care much for the mask, but as long as he doesn't grow a goatee and start wearing a silly hat, i can accept it.  These are the next logical progressions. The goatee must happen atleast.
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Dec 14, 2013 16:41
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The Flash is man who runs super fast and fights a man who can walk into mirrors, a man who can control the weather, a man from the future called Professor Zoom, and a talking gorilla. The sooner it gets stupid the better.
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Dec 14, 2013 16:43
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Robotnik DDS posted:The Flash is man who runs super fast and fights a man who can walk into mirrors, a man who can control the weather, a man from the future called Professor Zoom, and a talking gorilla. The sooner it gets stupid the better. And Count Vertigo is a European Count with the power to fly and make people dizzy. Arrow is not afraid to take liberties with comic book characters to make them less silly. The Flash should do the same.
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Dec 14, 2013 16:51
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I want Gorilla Grodd to show up and there to just be a 4 minute pause as people try to process this is actually happening. Like Barry goes to talk, hangs his head and puts his hand up for a minute, lifts his head, hangs it again, starts gently weeping, and then goes "Fine, ok, this is a thing now.".
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Dec 14, 2013 16:52
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Just saw these. Available in April. http://www.bigbadtoystore.com/bbts/product.aspx?product=DCC11700&mode=retail
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Dec 14, 2013 16:58
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Those are dreadful. But I'm sure many would like to have their own Stephen Amell.
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Dec 14, 2013 17:00
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Spergatory posted:And Count Vertigo is a European Count with the power to fly and make people dizzy. Sure Arrow has chewed through a zillion random DC comics characters and brought them down to earth (to a degree) and that's fine for a regular human hero but I want the Flash to have a reason to show off his superpowers. As long as the characters and performances are sincere and take themselves seriously then it won't matter how over the top the villains are. I don't see any reason besides budget to hold back on general foolishness. I guess we just disagree but I won't particularly care what the characters fighting street level thugs on Arrow think if The Flash fights a time traveler in episode 6.
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Dec 14, 2013 17:15
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I think keeping the show grounded is a lot more about the presentation than about keeping it power-free. If the world progresses in a clear and consistent manner and every new step forward is given its proper weight then I reckon the show could end up going anywhere it wanted. The problem comes when amazing things happen without cause or consequence, that's when a show gets cartoonish (hello, Smallville!)Blackchamber posted:I'm with everyone else on keeping the 'magic' and all that crap off the show. I'm sure the show writers could tackle it since they've already been writing a pretty good show. But lets face it you cant have a world based in science like Iron Man's and then smash it together with a world that contains magic like Thor's. It just wouldn't work, nobody would watch it, and it would fail horribly. Well played, sir 
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Dec 14, 2013 17:19
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I want Grodd. He's my favorite member of the Rogues even though he isn't technically one. Scudder version of Mirror Master would be the close second just because of the hosed up traps he makes.
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Dec 14, 2013 17:25
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Robotnik DDS posted:Sure Arrow has chewed through a zillion random DC comics characters and brought them down to earth (to a degree) and that's fine for a regular human hero but I want the Flash to have a reason to show off his superpowers. As long as the characters and performances are sincere and take themselves seriously then it won't matter how over the top the villains are. I don't see any reason besides budget to hold back on general foolishness. I guess we just disagree but I won't particularly care what the characters fighting street level thugs on Arrow think if The Flash fights a time traveler in episode 6. There's plenty of ways to retool the Flash's villains so they work better in the context of the Arrow-verse without necessarily depowering them. Maybe change their power's origin, or the way it works, or tone it down slightly, or give them an entirely different power with a similar theme. The Arrow team hasn't introduced a straight-up 1:1 copy of a comics character yet and I see no reason for them to start. Let me put it this way; if they play with the characters and retool their origins and powers to fit in better with the Arrow-verse, they might alienate a few angry nerds. If they transfer the characters in all their comic-book silliness, they stand to alienate pretty much everyone else. Most prospective watchers of this show won't give a gently caress about what the Flash does in the comics; they'll care about what he does on their television screen and whether or not it works in that context. I'm fine with them bringing over whoever, even Grodd, as long as they can make it work, but what works on television and what works in comics are two entirely different animals. Rarity posted:I think keeping the show grounded is a lot more about the presentation than about keeping it power-free. If the world progresses in a clear and consistent manner and every new step forward is given its proper weight then I reckon the show could end up going anywhere it wanted. The problem comes when amazing things happen without cause or consequence, that's when a show gets cartoonish (hello, Smallville!) Basically this. PS: Thor's 'magic' is basically super-science. Like, they flat out say as much. Spergatory fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Dec 14, 2013 |
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Dec 14, 2013 17:48
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Rarity posted:Well played, sir I got one more! The real problem is that magic gives people an unfair advantage because it defies science. How does someone with a super science origin take down someone who can conjure energy blasts or just disappear or create illusions? Its easy in the comics but you can't translate that to tv/movie screens in a way that people would care to see and enjoy. 
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Dec 14, 2013 17:53
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They should tone down the Flash's powers so he's just a guy who can run at near-Olympic speed.
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Dec 14, 2013 17:56
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