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I dunno, $399 was exactly what I expected for both consoles. The XBone price was the surprise, to me.
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Dec 14, 2013 23:07
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Supercar Gautier posted:I dunno, $399 was exactly what I expected for both consoles. Fair enough for yourself, but the elation surrounding Sony's $399 E3 reveal suggests otherwise for the general public.
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Dec 14, 2013 23:24
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Supercar Gautier posted:I don't think it was a shock at all. Some people assumed that they would charge a fortune for the PS4 because that's What Sony Does, but that's silly. They really burned themselves with the PS3 launch and they knew it. Why would they ever repeat such an embarrassing and costly mistake? Wasn't most of that price tag the at the time incredibly expensive BD drive?
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Dec 14, 2013 23:28
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Boiled Water posted:Wasn't most of that price tag the at the time incredibly expensive BD drive? Yup, and even at the launch retail price they took a massive loss (parts cost was $800 or something absurd) on every console sold. In retrospect it's more obvious that Sony had learnt from the PS3 and wouldn't launch at an unreasonable price, but $399 is still a very good price for the hardware. edit: not so much actually, dug this up from the PS3 launch time:  BR drive compared to the 360's DVD one was +$100. No idea what comes under 'other components', maybe some hardware decoders for the BR playback? Launch 360 was costed at $325 for comparison Edmund Honda fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Dec 15, 2013 |
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Dec 14, 2013 23:51
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To add insult to injury it wasn't even that utilized since any game that came out for both the 360 and ps3 ad to fit on a dvd. It also begs the question: Why not use SD cards or something similar? Install from Internet or USB drive seems reasonable and you don't have to pay sony fat stacks for putting an optical reader in the console.
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Dec 14, 2013 23:59
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Boiled Water posted:It also begs the question: Why not use SD cards or something similar? Install from Internet or USB drive seems reasonable and you don't have to pay sony fat stacks for putting an optical reader in the console. Because this was the time frame when HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray was an actual thing and Sony was trying to push their format as the winning one. X-Box had an HD-DVD player which is easy to forget because HD-DVD died a hard death. Edit: Unless you mean in modern consoles, and the reason why is Blu-Ray is just cheaper for the size it holds even considering the licensing costs.
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Dec 15, 2013 00:00
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No the xbox had the possibility for you to buy an HD-DVD add on USB drive. The machine used dvds for games.
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Dec 15, 2013 00:02
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Boiled Water posted:To add insult to injury it wasn't even that utilized since any game that came out for both the 360 and ps3 ad to fit on a dvd. I think it became much more noticeable later in the console's life because there were several xbox games that had multiple discs while the PS3 only had 1. GTA V, Dragons Dogma are a few off the top of my head.
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Dec 15, 2013 00:02
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Boiled Water posted:No the xbox had the possibility for you to buy an HD-DVD add on USB drive. The machine used dvds for games. Yes, I meant at the timeframe the PS3 was released. It was smack dab in the middle of the format war, which is why the 360 got that add-on.
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Dec 15, 2013 00:04
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Boiled Water posted:To add insult to injury it wasn't even that utilized since any game that came out for both the 360 and ps3 ad to fit on a dvd. This is something I've been kind of surprised about -- I would have thought that the days of buying optical media for consoles were very numbered and that more consoles would move towards this kind of system. End of the day, though, the upfront cost of a disk drive versus larger capacity drives probably will keep things like this for a while. I'm assuming that its an exponetial increase in cost for storage space on consoles, which may be incorrect.
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Dec 15, 2013 00:05
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hubris.height posted:This is something I've been kind of surprised about -- I would have thought that the days of buying optical media for consoles were very numbered and that more consoles would move towards this kind of system. End of the day, though, the upfront cost of a disk drive versus larger capacity drives probably will keep things like this for a while. I'm assuming that its an exponetial increase in cost for storage space on consoles, which may be incorrect. Anyone who thinks this doesn't live in one of the many, many, many places where internet is heavily capped or incredibly slow. There are places where downloading a single PS4 game would use up most of your internet cap for the month. We're still really far away from an era where optical media is going away entirely, at least until infrastructure improves in the biggest markets. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Dec 15, 2013 |
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Dec 15, 2013 00:06
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hubris.height posted:End of the day, though, the upfront cost of a disk drive versus larger capacity drives probably will keep things like this for a while. I'm assuming that its an exponetial increase in cost for storage space on consoles, which may be incorrect. The 500gb drive the PS4/Xbone use is around $35, anything bigger than 1TB is where it starts getting unreasonably expensive right now. It would have cost Nintendo very little extra to go with a 500gb SATA drive over the 32GB of flash in the Wii U. Probably would've blown their power allowance though.
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Dec 15, 2013 00:19
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Counterpoint: HDD space has never been cheaper. Yes flash memory and SSDs are nice and expensive, but a good ol' hdd can be had for next to nothing. This might be why the two new consoles are shipping with them. And for the areas that don't have internet connectivity in abundance, would you be opposed to buy games on usb sticks instead of disks? While the supply side of things might have to change a bit it would save massively on the licenses for optical drives.
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Dec 15, 2013 00:21
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Boiled Water posted:Counterpoint: HDD space has never been cheaper. Yes flash memory and SSDs are nice and expensive, but a good ol' hdd can be had for next to nothing. This might be why the two new consoles are shipping with them. And for the areas that don't have internet connectivity in abundance, would you be opposed to buy games on usb sticks instead of disks? While the supply side of things might have to change a bit it would save massively on the licenses for optical drives. Do you really think it is cheaper to mass-produce high-speed 40GB USB sticks than it is to pay optical media licensing fees and mass produce Blu-Rays?
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Dec 15, 2013 00:22
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It might be cheaper than making a proprietary disk system. Actually it would probably be cheaper just to license BD from sony instead of this weird 'we control all the aspects' thing.
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Dec 15, 2013 00:25
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ImpAtom posted:Anyone who thinks this doesn't live in one of the many, many, many places where internet is heavily capped or incredibly slow. There are places where downloading a single PS4 game would use up most of your internet cap for the month. We're still really far away from an era where optical media is going away entirely, at least until infrastructure improves in the biggest markets. Going to go ahead and admit that I do not even consider slow internet or bandwidth caps. Its easy to forget that some places aren't as lucky as I am with internet service. Edmund Honda posted:The 500gb drive the PS4/Xbone use is around $35, anything bigger than 1TB is where it starts getting unreasonably expensive right now. Oh wow. Thanks for this info.
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Dec 15, 2013 00:56
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hubris.height posted:Going to go ahead and admit that I do not even consider slow internet or bandwidth caps. Its easy to forget that some places aren't as lucky as I am with internet service. Yeah.  It's the kind of thing which shouldn't be an issue but a lot of countries are just not investing in it.
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Dec 15, 2013 01:04
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Boiled Water posted:It might be cheaper than making a proprietary disk system. Actually it would probably be cheaper just to license BD from sony instead of this weird 'we control all the aspects' thing. They do use Blu-ray discs, they just don't pay for the license fees to play films on the drive. It's the same with the Gamecube and Wii using mini DVDs and DVDs/Dual-layer DVDs respectively. The Dreamcast actually used a proprietary format, the GD-ROM, which used the same laser as a CD but used some technique to fit 1.2 GB on to a disc rather than 700 MB. Since it wasn't possible to duplicate the discs, pirated copies would have to remove data to fit it into 700 MB and run off a CD-R.
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Dec 15, 2013 01:08
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Edmund Honda posted:It would have cost Nintendo very little extra to go with a 500gb SATA drive over the 32GB of flash in the Wii U. Probably would've blown their power allowance though. Well anything that would have raised the price of the system is probably not a good thing. I don't really care about the internal storage, as I buy all my games on disc and will never fill the 32GB of storage. And if I do? Plug in an old external drive I guess.
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Dec 15, 2013 06:41
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Cross-posting from the PS4 thread:MZ posted:UK sales figures are in, 250k units for the PS4, 170k for the Xbone, and 150k for the Wii U...after an entire year. I think we can call WiiU in the UK a dead cause.
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Dec 15, 2013 13:44
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ImpAtom posted:Anyone who thinks this doesn't live in one of the many, many, many places where internet is heavily capped or incredibly slow. There are places where downloading a single PS4 game would use up most of your internet cap for the month. We're still really far away from an era where optical media is going away entirely, at least until infrastructure improves in the biggest markets. Yeah but think of where we were in 2005 when the 360/PS3 launched, and where we are now - in 2005 you would be the one saying that nobody would ever download a full 15GB game on their console. In another 5 years, they might not even sell discs anymore - its nearly impossible to predict that far in the future with technology anymore.
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Dec 15, 2013 16:52
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abagofcheetos posted:Yeah but think of where we were in 2005 when the 360/PS3 launched, and where we are now - in 2005 you would be the one saying that nobody would ever download a full 15GB game on their console. In another 5 years, they might not even sell discs anymore - its nearly impossible to predict that far in the future with technology anymore. I think you're underestimating just how many regions have been stuck with the same lovely 3MBps dsl lines for a decade now and won't be seeing an upgrade anytime soon.
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Dec 15, 2013 17:26
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I think I'd probably kill myself if I ever had to go back to a time before FiOS.
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Dec 15, 2013 17:34
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I live in Austin, which is the nerd capital of the south, and we still don't have widespread residential fios. Time Warner is the only ISP that serves my house, and I pay stupid amounts of money for about 12 mbit. Discs are going to be around for a long time if that's the current state in even high tech cities.
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Dec 15, 2013 17:37
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abagofcheetos posted:In another 5 years, they might not even sell discs anymore - its nearly impossible to predict that far in the future with technology anymore. Discs or some form of media will be around for quite awhile, I think you're being overly optimistic about internet access and its deployment. I pay $54/month for 5mbit DSL (with 150gb cap) that rarely reaches those speeds, my only other option is cable internet which goes up to 12mbit but is closer to $75/month. I don't want to download 20 gigabyte games. That's nearly an entire day of sitting around waiting for something to download before I can play it. And while my DSL line is being used to download a game, that means that netflix is basically unusable and even something as simple as web browsing is a pain. The technology just isn't widely enough available to force a large percentage of people to suffer through digital download only. abagofcheetos posted:Except in 5 years we all may be using LTE for home use. It is terribly expensive now, but remember it wasn't that long ago it cost $.10 to send a loving text message. It never cost that much to send a text. The technology was always cheap, that's just what the carriers charged because people were willing to pay it. LTE will never, ever be a suitable substitute for a land line, and especially not within 5 years jesus do you even know what you're talking about? The same places that can't get wired internet access ALSO have poor wireless access! The Shep fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Dec 15, 2013 |
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Dec 15, 2013 18:14
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^^^^^^^ How can you say LTE will never be good for home use? The latency and download speeds are better than most home connections right now, and obviously it never cost the carriers $.10 a text message, and guess what, it doesn't actually cost the carriers $10 a month per GB of bandwidth they sell you. Eventually the costs will come down to something reasonable. Why do you think Verizon is so eager to blanket the country with LTE, and not so eager to build out FIOS? Because it is cheaper to deliver broadband through the air than through the ground. Equilibrium posted:I think you're underestimating just how many regions have been stuck with the same lovely 3MBps dsl lines for a decade now and won't be seeing an upgrade anytime soon. Except in 5 years we all may be using LTE for home use. It is terribly expensive now, but remember it wasn't that long ago it cost $.10 to send a loving text message. abagofcheetos fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Dec 15, 2013 |
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Dec 15, 2013 18:16
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abagofcheetos posted:^^^^^^^ You're talking about the service where people get charged steep fines for going over a pitiful bandwidth limit, which resulted in the service providers claiming that there was no demand for high bandwidth Internet services when people were really just scared shitless of paying $100 in fines because they wanted to watch Netflix during their lunch break. We're a long way away from LTE supplanting wired connections, and it's not because the technology isn't ready.
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Dec 15, 2013 18:38
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Fallom posted:You're talking about the service where people get charged steep fines for going over a pitiful bandwidth limit, which resulted in the service providers claiming that there was no demand for high bandwidth Internet services when people were really just scared shitless of paying $100 in fines because they wanted to watch Netflix during their lunch break. No kidding, that is why I brought up the $.10 text messages example. The technology is there, meaning the only reason it isn't feasible is because of business decisions. Eventually that will change. Not next year obviously, but 5 years from now, can you honestly make a definitive prediction? Do you remember how lovely cell phone service and plans were when the 360/PS3 launched?
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Dec 15, 2013 18:48
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abagofcheetos posted:No kidding, that is why I brought up the $.10 text messages example. The technology is there, meaning the only reason it isn't feasible is because of business decisions. Eventually that will change. Not next year obviously, but 5 years from now, can you honestly make a definitive prediction? Do you remember how lovely cell phone service and plans were when the 360/PS3 launched? I don't think the technology is there though. There are limits on licensing, spectrum frequencies, etc. While I agree that bad business decisions have a lot to do with our subpar wireless access in the country, I don't think that alone accounts for why we don't have cheap unlimited high speed wireless. An LTE speedtest on my phone at home is about 8mbit, which is only slightly faster than my home DSL line and with worse latency. It's a good technology but not the broadband savior its being made out to be. It would still take the better part of a day for me to download a huge game on it. And since I'm getting way off topic I'll drop it at this point. The Shep fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Dec 15, 2013 |
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Dec 15, 2013 18:50
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abagofcheetos posted:No kidding, that is why I brought up the $.10 text messages example. The technology is there, meaning the only reason it isn't feasible is because of business decisions. Eventually that will change. Not next year obviously, but 5 years from now, can you honestly make a definitive prediction? Do you remember how lovely cell phone service and plans were when the 360/PS3 launched? Yea I can make a definitive prediction. 5 years from now we will still have blu-rays / physical media and won't be using LTE over land lines for home use. TaurusOxford posted:Cross-posting from the PS4 thread: Does anyone have numbers for other regions of the world? I don't expect them to be much better, but I am curious.
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Dec 15, 2013 18:52
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Does anyone have numbers for other regions of the world? I don't expect them to be much better, but I am curious. Current estimates are 4.3 million Wii U's sold in the world.
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Dec 15, 2013 18:53
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Yea I can make a definitive prediction. 5 years from now we will still have blu-rays / physical media and won't be using LTE over land lines for home use.
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Dec 15, 2013 19:19
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Does anyone have numbers for other regions of the world? I don't expect them to be much better, but I am curious. America LTD is ~2.5m Wii U, >1.1m PS4, >900k Xbone. Worldwide LTD ~4.5m Wii U, >2.1m PS4, >2m Xbone. Japan will be very interesting.
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Dec 15, 2013 19:56
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Edmund Honda posted:America LTD is ~2.5m Wii U, >1.1m PS4, >900k Xbone. I'm just amazed that the Xbone sold half as much as the Wii-U in that short amount of time. It's going to get real interesting once the Steam Box gets up and running. The Taint Reaper fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Dec 15, 2013 |
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Dec 15, 2013 20:48
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Edmund Honda posted:America LTD is ~2.5m Wii U, >1.1m PS4, >900k Xbone. I think we can safely assume there will be very few sales for the Xbone in Japan.
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Dec 15, 2013 20:54
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Fulchrum posted:I think we can safely assume there will be very few sales for the Xbone in Japan. They pretty much put all their eggs with North America to begin with.
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Dec 15, 2013 20:56
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Anyone still got that "By Americans, for Americans" poster?
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Dec 15, 2013 21:09
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Fulchrum posted:I think we can safely assume there will be very few sales for the Xbone in Japan. Wasn't the original Xbox a better seller than the 360 in Japan? I think it was 2mil xbox 1(no, not the new one  ) and 1.5m 360s.
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Dec 15, 2013 21:09
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Fallom posted:You're talking about the service where people get charged steep fines for going over a pitiful bandwidth limit, which resulted in the service providers claiming that there was no demand for high bandwidth Internet services when people were really just scared shitless of paying $100 in fines because they wanted to watch Netflix during their lunch break. To be fair, I remember when internet use was charged by the hour.
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Dec 15, 2013 21:18
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Fulchrum posted:Anyone still got that "By Americans, for Americans" poster? That's exactly how a guy explained why Microsoft was better than Sony when he was arguing with his friend in line at Best Buy and thought 360 outsold PS3. He was Canadian too. Great article on the failure of Microsoft in Japan: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-12-13-why-xbox-failed-in-japan
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Dec 15, 2013 21:21
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