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I'm picking up sceleria as my new race to learn. I've got the basics of maniple combat down but i'm not sure what the optimal research and crafting goals are for a death/astral nation in the mid/late game. What schools should i focus on? Right now my current research goals have been Thaumatergy 4 (for site searching) Enchantment 4 (for skeletons) Where do i go next? Conjuration/Construction seem most appropriate but idk if I'm missing a must have spell elsewhere. What chassis/build should i try to get for a supercombatant? My pretender is a titan of death and rebirth with all the elements that my mages can't get so I generally use him for research and ritual spells rather than risking him on the field without any gear. Let me know how badly i'm loving up the early game here.
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Dec 14, 2013 21:37
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| # ? May 12, 2024 15:03 |
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Sceleria probably wants Thaum 5/Evo 6 for Mind Hunting enemy generals ASAP, and yeah, Skeletons are the optimal path for them as you've worked out already. Revive Longdead Horsemen, revive more in battle, just pile on the skeletons forever until you win/lose. Absolutely do not cast Burden of Time, because your revivers are all really old.
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Dec 14, 2013 21:46
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Const 4 has an amulet that lets reanimators revive 2 more longdead per turn, makes them much more efficient.
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Dec 14, 2013 21:51
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Okay, you do want Thaum, but not for sitesearching. Your only path that has its SS spell in Thaum is Air, and you only get A1 on the cap-only mages. The only sitesearching spells you have the paths to do are Dark Knowledge and Arcane Probing. Your pretender or a Grand Thaumaturg can and should do manual searching. You want Thaum for Mind Burn and Soul Slay communions. You want Evo for Stellar Cascades, Mind Hunt, and Nether Darts. Arcane probing is a bonus You want Ench for Skelespam and Mound Kings You want Conj for dark Knowledge, and Banes - who are a lot more beefy than Mound Kings for a similar price. Look for indie archers to back up your troops. Principes aren't as good as they were in Dom3, but they're still better than average for their cost. Used mixed armies of undead and humans to cover each others' weaknesses. Try to get some high-MR (Vestals or summons)or high-HP undead (ghouls and soulless) to soak up banishment spam for your undead cavalry. Try not to raise more cavalry than you can effectively lead, the mage-turns of your Grand Thaumaturgs are very precious. If you get Amazons, build a fort there so you can pump out some diversity mages. ---------- Edit: For pretender, you're probably better off with a Human mage if you want to buy a lot of new paths for searching/summoning/forging. Buying one extra path on a Titan is okay. I would go for three minor blesses: probably E and A for your mages, and maybe W or F for the Vestals. These also get you nice diversity for searching. You could get good mileage out of N, D would work but duplicates your national paths. B minor (or major) would be a waste, since you won't have any RP available to drop into Blood research. S9 used to be the go-to in Dom3, but I don't think it's worth it anymore. W9 with a minor for your mages could also work. Depends on whether you're willing to go imprisoned to get some scales. Dom9 cyclops, e6, awake 1 positive scale Dom8 Titan of Heavens, a4e4x4 awake no scales. Dom8 Titan of the Sea, W9x4, dormant one positive scale Edit2: E/S gets you crystal coins and communion matrices for your mages and Hammers, too. Speleothing fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Dec 14, 2013 |
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Dec 14, 2013 22:29
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^^^ Thanks for the pretender edit. very helpful. awesome Thaum 5, Evo 6, Const 4, conj3, and Enchant as high as i can get it. what items other than magic level boosters and the aforementioned reviving amulet should i set up factories for mass producing to kit out things like banes? What gems do i want to spend my time hunting aside from the death gems i'm going to be pouring into skeletons and death magic boosters? Real hurthling! fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Dec 14, 2013 |
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Dec 14, 2013 22:38
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Standard thug kit is 1 defensive item and 1 crowd-clearing item. Sometimes you add flying boots for mobility. Your mages can forge Frost Brands natively, they're Const 4 and only w1, so they're pretty cheap, though not as good as a Fire Brand. The Best defensive item is a Vine Shield. Any of the other shields would be nice, situationally. Luck is okay for a Bane, since their HP is kinda low, but is wasted on a Bane Lord.
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Dec 14, 2013 22:52
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Luck doesn't affect undead any more... They're dead, their luck has already run out.
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Dec 14, 2013 22:54
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Would unluck affect undead?
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Dec 14, 2013 23:09
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Maybe they're lucky to be unalive?
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Dec 14, 2013 23:30
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amuayse posted:Maybe they're lucky to be unalive? "Yo we need you to help our nation not suck quite as much" *skeletal shrug and light nodding* "Also this will lead to you having to fight a shitload of H3 priests/solar brilliance/etc. while we do more important things with the mages and a handful of troops" *skeletal clattering of angst* "And you there, important looking Bane Lord guy, we need you to fly to this scarcely-scouted part of the world that's possibly full of glamoured defenders just waiting to gently caress you up, have a sword and a shield, though, maybe this antimagic amulet too" *otherworldy groan of clear skepticism* jBrereton fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Dec 15, 2013 |
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Dec 14, 2013 23:48
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Ermor: Dead and Loving It
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Dec 15, 2013 00:08
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jBrereton posted:Usually not. Bah! The Longdead are happy to be chaff, at least they can occasionally take someone down. They could always be a blood slave instead!
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Dec 15, 2013 00:42
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jBrereton posted:Usually not. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPw-3e_pzqU No rest for the wicked. tooterfish fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Dec 15, 2013 |
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Dec 15, 2013 00:44
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Okay, so, is there a set of age/race/pretender/scales sets that's usually suggested for new people? I tried LA Midgard Crone with high Order and Productivity, and some other stuff, and it seemed like I could just projectile vomit skinshifters constantly from my capital, but as stated earlier I got chumped by an assassin and got totally lost early on. "Just pick any build" seems to be the usual advice, but I get choice paralysis when I have dozens of nations, hundreds of pretenders, and countless scales/magic rank options per build to pick from, and I had absolutely no idea if I was doing well or poorly until my pretender died in my last game.
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Dec 15, 2013 02:58
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Assassins will make you look like a pleb sometimes. Take extra commanders with, because it's going to be a problem if your commanders get Mind Hunt'd, Seeking Arrow'd, etc. etc. always. For new players, Order is always a good pick (in fact for everyone it's always a good pick). The other scales I'd try to keep decent as a new player? But these things vary by nation, so sometimes you want full production (Abysia or Pythium or whatever) and sometimes you can go into Sloth (any monkey nation) and remain competitive.
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Dec 15, 2013 02:59
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Daeren posted:Okay, so, is there a set of age/race/pretender/scales sets that's usually suggested for new people? I tried LA Midgard Crone with high Order and Productivity, and some other stuff, and it seemed like I could just projectile vomit skinshifters constantly from my capital, but as stated earlier I got chumped by an assassin and got totally lost early on. "Just pick any build" seems to be the usual advice, but I get choice paralysis when I have dozens of nations, hundreds of pretenders, and countless scales/magic rank options per build to pick from, and I had absolutely no idea if I was doing well or poorly until my pretender died in my last game. Pick a nation with sacred troops and take a W9 bless.
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Dec 15, 2013 03:04
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For example, and I'm pulling this completely out of my rear end, you could take Pan with those centaur things? I guess they're effective or whatever? And junk?
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Dec 15, 2013 05:03
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Why is W9 Bless so good?
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Dec 15, 2013 05:21
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Excelsiortothemax posted:Why is W9 Bless so good? It increases your defense by 4, making your troops more durable, and gives them Quickness, which gives them both better movement and more attacks per round, increasing their offense. In addition, extra attacks is a force multiplier, which no other bless gives (With the -possible- exception of Astral 9), and real ultimate power is all about stacking force multipliers. It's the only bless that simultaneously increases offense and defense, and it pairs well with literally any other bless, in addition to being good on its own. NinjaDebugger fucked around with this message at 05:30 on Dec 15, 2013 |
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Dec 15, 2013 05:28
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Excelsiortothemax posted:Why is W9 Bless so good? Sacreds are good at doing things. W9 Sacreds do good things x2. (and the Defense boost from the minor aspects of the bless is good, too.)
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Dec 15, 2013 05:29
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Victor Vermis posted:Sacreds are good at doing things. W9 does things x1.5 - just to be accurate.
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Dec 15, 2013 05:34
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Speleothing posted:W9 does things x1.5 - just to be accurate. Does the quickness spell work the same way?
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Dec 15, 2013 05:48
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No. Quickness gives +3 att & def, which stacks with water bless's +def, and gives 2x attacks and some multiplier to movement. Bless Quickness gives 1.5x attacks and some multiplier to movement (technically speaking this is 2 attacks every 2 rounds). It does not give any stat boosts on its own, although W8+ gives +4 def separately. Quickness and Bless Quickness do not stack with each other - Quickness overrides Bless Quickness, so if you had W9 and spell Quickness your total stats would be +3 att, +7 def, 2x attacks. However there is a third quickness from the heroic ability that stacks with either Quickness or Bless Quickness, so you can have as many as 4x attacks if you luck into that ability.
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Dec 15, 2013 06:36
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is MA agartha hopeless in the new version? I want to use them because earth made flesh is a sick looking pretender.
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Dec 15, 2013 08:35
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Then you stack on 2 extra arms and equip double gloves of the gladiator 
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Dec 15, 2013 08:36
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Summon up one of the four-armed monkey-summons, plus two extra arms. 3x Gloves of the Gladiator. 
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Dec 15, 2013 09:16
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Real hurthling! posted:is MA agartha hopeless in the new version? I want to use them because earth made flesh is a sick looking pretender. She isn't that good actually, just a huge blob of hp, most hp you will ever see on a mobile vanilla pretender. (225? something like that) MA Agartha is not hopeless but does need careful management. you can at best do a single bless, either W9 or E9 on your sacreds I prefer E9 for the reinvig, you really need scales and to leverage the fact that you have powerful H3 priests, even with STR you can use the off turn for recruiting pale ones for your h3 priests to lead. Oracle is a +1 morale commander at base (80 command) +1 from being inspiring, and ancient ones are +1 standard effect so you can get a +3 commander bonus, throw a divine bless out to hit your bless and they are actually quite competent, (also they have iron gear and can hurl rocks at 18 range for acceptable damage, precision matters little since they are basically javelins anyway), i've had good results against indeps using this strategy, and that gets you past year one with enough land to be surviving.
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Dec 15, 2013 09:54
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Statues are still crap sadly, but their other summons like the elementals and undead are pretty good.
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Dec 15, 2013 10:48
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Sovietski posted:Bah! The Longdead are happy to be chaff, at least they can occasionally take someone down. They could always be a blood slave instead! The Longdead are happy to be chaff because the sooner they're dead again the sooner they can go back to sleep. Imagine how grumpy you'd be if someone woke you up after centuries of snoozing.
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Dec 15, 2013 11:42
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Is s9 no good for shadow vestals anymore? I used to enjoy expanding with that nonsense and winning a lot of early fights till the longdead train got rolling.
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Dec 15, 2013 13:26
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Daeren posted:Okay, so, is there a set of age/race/pretender/scales sets that's usually suggested for new people? I tried LA Midgard Crone with high Order and Productivity, and some other stuff, and it seemed like I could just projectile vomit skinshifters constantly from my capital, but as stated earlier I got chumped by an assassin and got totally lost early on. "Just pick any build" seems to be the usual advice, but I get choice paralysis when I have dozens of nations, hundreds of pretenders, and countless scales/magic rank options per build to pick from, and I had absolutely no idea if I was doing well or poorly until my pretender died in my last game. Serious answer: whichever nation's fluff you like the most. Then folks will help with a viable build.
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Dec 15, 2013 14:22
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Are these decent MA agartha research targets for the mid game? Conjuration 6 (umbrals) Alteration 6 (darkness) Evocation 4 (bladewind) Construction 4 (thug gear)
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Dec 15, 2013 17:47
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Alteration for earth should be a top priority with Maws of the Earth. I think construction is better just for boosters than thug gear, unless you want to break into death and someone some banes/wraiths.
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Dec 15, 2013 18:27
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Mr Teatime posted:Is s9 no good for shadow vestals anymore? I used to enjoy expanding with that nonsense and winning a lot of early fights till the longdead train got rolling. The +MR doesn't really help them kill things, which is where I think they need the boost. There are a lot of Throne effects that will increase survivability, but not many that add killiness. Twist Fate is really nice for your Mages as well as your Vestals. It's still good, but part of its viability came from breaking you into the Wish endgame. Speleothing fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Dec 15, 2013 |
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Dec 15, 2013 19:01
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Are some pretender chassis unavailable to use as disciples/masters?
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Dec 15, 2013 21:11
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Pretenders have to have a base Dom score of 3 or 4, disciples 2 or 1.
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Dec 15, 2013 21:12
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amuayse posted:Alteration for earth should be a top priority with Maws of the Earth. I think construction is better just for boosters than thug gear, unless you want to break into death and someone some banes/wraiths. any pretender/scales thoughts? I've got an ancient olm with 9 earth 4 water 6 dom and +2 order but he seems too squishy to use as more than a researcher for the early game until i get him a killer spell.
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Dec 15, 2013 21:22
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Here's a few thoughts:
LordSloth fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Dec 15, 2013 |
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Dec 15, 2013 22:54
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AtomikKrab posted:She isn't that good actually, just a huge blob of hp Not too shabby. Low prec/att/def, but eh. That's not really what a pretender's for. On the other hand, Cold Resistance 5+ doesn't cancel Cold Blooded at all, so you have to be pretty really careful about where she fights, I guess.
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Dec 15, 2013 23:24
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| # ? May 12, 2024 15:03 |
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jBrereton posted:Also 4 natural reinvig, very respectable paths for non-AG Dominions (does anything else in vanilla Dom 4 even get X3Y1?), amphibiousness, DV100, a siege bonus, and decent dom score. How would you use her in the early game that's more valuable than getting 30 rp/turn in the capital?
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Dec 16, 2013 02:22
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