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Boiled Water posted:This is quite interesting considering how many posts are focused on how consoles perform on the Japanese market. It's partly simply because Japanese sales are reported publically and weekly, rather than behind an NDA and monthly (America) or not at all (UK). Plus yes, home market. Japan is responsible for ~35% of all 3DS hardware and software sales, much less for the Wii U though. Fact I just spotted: Wii U attachment rate in Japan is 2.2:1  . It's 6.3:1 in America and that's not amazing. 2.2:1 means they probably haven't broken even on the hardware sold in Japan yet.
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Dec 16, 2013 16:24
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I really really want the Wii U to be successful. It's a drat shame things aren't turning around for Nintendo, because after not owning / playing a console owned by Nintendo since the N-64, I'm actually really excited and really really like my Wii-U. Maybe it will make some great sales through the summer of this year and pick up traction. It does have a lot more exciting exclusives than either XBone / PS4, but the multi-plats it is missing out on are a drat shame.
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Dec 16, 2013 16:27
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hubris.height posted:Maybe it will make some great sales through the summer of this year and pick up traction. Any hope of the WiiU picking up traction died with SM3DW's poor sales and the PS4/Xbone launches. Nothing short of a console Pokemon game is going save the WiiU now.
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Dec 16, 2013 16:34
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TaurusOxford posted:Any hope of the WiiU picking up traction died with SM3DW's poor sales and the PS4/Xbone launches. Nothing short of a console Pokemon game is going save the WiiU now. Two Mario titles within a year didn't move the consoles trajectory so I think its very fair to say that. Also; I'm haunted by how dumb that L wrap in Chicago was. You spend no money advertising and this is how you splurge?
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Dec 16, 2013 16:38
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Edmund Honda posted:It's partly simply because Japanese sales are reported publically and weekly, rather than behind an NDA and monthly (America) or not at all (UK). That's doubly interesting. The market they need to keep them afloat on the Wii U front is actually costing them money.
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Dec 16, 2013 16:49
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hubris.height posted:I really really want the Wii U to be successful. It's a drat shame things aren't turning around for Nintendo, because after not owning / playing a console owned by Nintendo since the N-64, I'm actually really excited and really really like my Wii-U. Maybe it will make some great sales through the summer of this year and pick up traction. So do I, but it really doesn't deserve to be successful. It's a product of Nintendo's laziness and arrogance, and it really needs to fail for Nintendo to change. Although its sales are similar to the Dreamcast, that console was designed with a completely different philosophy. It was the most advanced console on the market until the PS2 released two years later, it had the most robust online system until Xbox Live launched along with Halo 2, and SEGA put out new IPs like crazy. If it wasn't for the failure of the previous systems, such as the 32x and Saturn, and the crushing success of the PS2, it had every right to do well. What they need to do is follow the roadmap Sony made to make their failure of a console into a success. It might be too late for the Wii U, but for the next system they should get their Western studios and third parties involved in designing it. They should improve their workflow for games development so that they have some really impressive games ready for launch, and coming out at a steady pace. The Wii U won't kill Nintendo, but if the next console isn't better, that will.
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Dec 16, 2013 17:29
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Edmund Honda posted:Nintendo financial reports ( http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2013/131030e.pdf ) plus npd, media create and whatever numbers the other two have released recently. I'm pretty sure the Nintendo financials report shipped units, and that NPD leaks have the sold through in the US at around 1.6M.
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Dec 16, 2013 18:46
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Zachack posted:I'm pretty sure the Nintendo financials report shipped units, and that NPD leaks have the sold through in the US at around 1.6M. They do indeed report shipped, but 1.6m sold through and 2.5m shipped? I'd... really hope that's not true. Especially when they're trying to shift another ~8m in like 4 months. I tried to be generous with the comparison because the only absolute source of sales is the company themselves, and without Nintendo giving sold-through numbers like the other two have very recently, it gets a bit shaky. Adding up NPD leaks over 14 months or whatever it is now doesn't sound particularly accurate either. Oh well!
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Dec 16, 2013 18:55
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That loving Sned posted:The Wii U won't kill Nintendo, but if the next console isn't better, that will. ...no it won't. It might kill Nintendo in the console market (a market that will probably be dead in 10 years anyway) but it won't kill Nintendo. Folks do understand that Nintendo still brought a minor profit in third quarter and is simply missing their projection marks? They are sitting on $10B, haven't laid anyone off (Japan rarely does. When Microsoft laid people off after bad Japan numbers they got extremely bad press. It's actually frowned upon there) and haven't even asked Iwata to step down yet. If Nintendo had no Wii U to spend on for the 2013 year, every quarter would have been a smashing success due to the 3DS.
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Dec 16, 2013 19:00
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:It might kill Nintendo in the console market (a market that will probably be dead in 10 years anyway) but it won't kill Nintendo. The console market is proving itself stronger than ever and phones/touchpads offer an entirely different type of gameplay that usually comes bundled with horrible nagging monetization schemes. Expect consoles to go away when televisions go away.
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Dec 16, 2013 19:07
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If you don't mind getting the Basic console with Skylanders and Nintendoland, NewEgg has a Wii U bundle for $220 today only. You could easily flip the Skylanders bundle on eBay (sold retail as cheap as $35 on Black Friday), and get the Wii U for under 200. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...616K1046&cm_sp=
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Dec 16, 2013 19:18
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You should mind since that 8GB of flash memory will get you no where.
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Dec 16, 2013 19:19
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Boiled Water posted:You should mind since that 8GB of flash memory will get you no where. Well if 24GB of Flash Memory is worth $80-$100 to you, thats your call I suppose. If you're going all digital invest that into an actual USB harddrive.
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Dec 16, 2013 19:23
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:Folks do understand that Nintendo still brought a minor profit in third quarter and is simply missing their projection marks? They are sitting on $10B, haven't laid anyone off (Japan rarely does. When Microsoft laid people off after bad Japan numbers they got extremely bad press. It's actually frowned upon there) and haven't even asked Iwata to step down yet. Their handheld and home console software sales are both down 10% YoY in terms of volume, their total sales worldwide are a couple of percent down in yen YoY and given how the yen has weakened against the USD/Euro (~20%) they're well down in real terms. The ship isn't sinking but don't pretend everything is perfect. Also for like the 10th time their cash reserve is $4.5b. Or it was until the yen weakened, probably less now. Also they haven't posted their third quarter results yet, mainly because the third quarter hasn't ended yet.
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Dec 16, 2013 19:24
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Boiled Water posted:You should mind since that 8GB of flash memory will get you no where. Neither will the 32 gig, really. I've only bought two full-budget downloadable games and I still need an external drive to store it on because of their size.
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Dec 16, 2013 19:25
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Edmund Honda posted:Their handheld and home console software sales are both down 10% YoY in terms of volume, their total sales worldwide are a couple of percent down in yen YoY and given how the yen has weakened against the USD/Euro (~20%) they're well down in real terms. The ship isn't sinking but don't pretend everything is perfect. Okay, so instead of making a minor profit, they broke even or lost a minor profit in Q1 and Q2. Either way, they are not losing cash at the level that Sega was with the Dreamcast this fiscal year.
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Dec 16, 2013 19:27
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univbee posted:Neither will the 32 gig, really. I've only bought two full-budget downloadable games and I still need an external drive to store it on because of their size. Nintendo did not think this through at all did they?
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Dec 16, 2013 19:28
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Boiled Water posted:Nintendo did not think this through at all did they? As someone that does not plan on buying full digital games I can get at retail, I am all in favor of not jacking up the price of the system another $50 for a hard drive I won't use.
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Dec 16, 2013 19:31
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Astro7x posted:Either way, they are not losing cash at the level that Sega was with the Dreamcast this fiscal year. God no, they're not even close to how bad Sega were. The issue is that without the 3DS they would be in some trouble. Every 3DS is sold with a big margin (3DSXL parts cost will be what, like $80 now?) and they sell a lot of them.
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Dec 16, 2013 19:33
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Edmund Honda posted:God no, they're not even close to how bad Sega were. The issue is that without the 3DS they would be in some trouble. You could have said the exact same thing about the original XBox and Microsoft Office/Windows though. The concept of a unprofitable console being backed by another part of a company doing well is not unheard of, but at least Microsoft is getting the payoff from it finally. Or maybe not, who knows really since they lump all their financials for the XBox with the failing tablets and zunes. Also, people don't seem to give a poo poo if the XBox loses money for Microsoft.
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Dec 16, 2013 19:36
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Astro7x posted:As someone that does not plan on buying full digital games I can get at retail, I am all in favor of not jacking up the price of the system another $50 for a hard drive I won't use. You have to remember that this also excludes game programming types that need a hard drive.
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Dec 16, 2013 19:39
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Edmund Honda posted:Also for like the 10th time their cash reserve is $4.5b. Or it was until the yen weakened, probably less now. Also they haven't posted their third quarter results yet, mainly because the third quarter hasn't ended yet. http://www.gamesradar.com/nintendo-doomed-not-likely-just-take-look-how-much-money-its-got-bank/ People probably forget the 6 billion in premises, equipment and investments. Sony selling their Osaki office allowed them to make $1.2 billion when they needed it.
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Dec 16, 2013 19:42
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Boiled Water posted:Nintendo did not think this through at all did they? Nintendo's in-house games are a pretty small footprint. NSMBU was under 2 gigs, as was Wind Waker. Pikmin 3 was 4 gigs. Wii Fit 2.5, Mario 3D World 1.6, from an internal perspective they didn't need much space. I don't know if any of that is intentionally designing small or because staying away from photorealistic graphics really cuts down on space needed, but Nintendo games are relatively tiny. But then the third parties came along. Wonderful 101 is about 10 gigs. Lego City Undercover is 19. Assassin's Creed IV and Arkham Origins are 13 gigs each (Arkham City and ACIII are 18-ish each). Again I don't know if it's just art assets or lazy bloat, but these were not games made with the WiiU storage space in mind and will eat it all up.
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Dec 16, 2013 19:55
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Edmund Honda posted:Also for like the 10th time their cash reserve is $4.5b. Or it was until the yen weakened, probably less now. Also they haven't posted their third quarter results yet, mainly because the third quarter hasn't ended yet. Actually, you've got this backwards. Nintendo's reserves are held in US dollars, so the weakening of the yen has caused an expansion of reserves on their balance sheet. I posted the real numbers a few pages back, but Nintendo's profit last quarter was something like 8.25b yen, while their reserves in USD posted a 17b yen increase. So, operationally, Nintendo posted a loss, but the fact that they're reporting financials in a currency that is weakening relative to the currency their reserves are held in allows them to not report a loss on the bottom line.
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Dec 16, 2013 20:00
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Reserves don't count for poo poo with a publicly-owned company because shareholders desire growth, not a buffer against bankruptcy.
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Dec 16, 2013 20:03
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:http://www.gamesradar.com/nintendo-doomed-not-likely-just-take-look-how-much-money-its-got-bank/ Their last financial statement shows $900m in assets under 'property, plant and equipment', and $4.5b in 'cash and deposits'. thefncrow posted:Nintendo's reserves are held in US dollars, so the weakening of the yen has caused an expansion of reserves on their balance sheet. It's $2.3b in USD, €530m and the rest in yen. My point was that the total reserve is probably 'worth' more yen now, but less dollars. Does that make sense?
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Dec 16, 2013 20:09
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Edmund Honda posted:It's $2.3b in USD, €530m and the rest in yen. My point was that the total reserve is probably 'worth' more yen now, but less dollars. Does that make sense? Ah, yes.
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Dec 16, 2013 20:15
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Bruceski posted:Nintendo's in-house games are a pretty small footprint. NSMBU was under 2 gigs, as was Wind Waker. Pikmin 3 was 4 gigs. Wii Fit 2.5, Mario 3D World 1.6, from an internal perspective they didn't need much space. I don't know if any of that is intentionally designing small or because staying away from photorealistic graphics really cuts down on space needed, but Nintendo games are relatively tiny. I stand by my statement (and I'm inclined to think you agree). Fallom posted:Reserves don't count for poo poo with a publicly-owned company because shareholders desire growth, not a buffer against bankruptcy. It's not a buffer as much as a leaking life preserver. It'll keep afloat, but only for a limited time. It boggles the mind why they didn't put more of this money into hiring more dudes to make hd games.
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Dec 16, 2013 20:25
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Boiled Water posted:It's not a buffer as much as a leaking life preserver. It'll keep afloat, but only for a limited time. It boggles the mind why they didn't put more of this money into hiring more dudes to make hd games. Again, the cash on hand keeps the stock price up. Spending it to expand the company when investor confidence is already low will likely cause a huge selloff and is not in Nintendo's best interest.
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Dec 16, 2013 20:32
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Astro7x posted:As someone that does not plan on buying full digital games I can get at retail, I am all in favor of not jacking up the price of the system another $50 for a hard drive I won't use. This probably just gets into another argument about the tablet but it feels like they spent money on their console poorly if at $350 they can't afford more than 32gb space in their console. My 20gb 360 started to feel incredibly cramped years ago and I never bought full retail games on it.
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Dec 16, 2013 20:35
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Mr.Unique-Name posted:Again, the cash on hand keeps the stock price up. Spending it to expand the company when investor confidence is already low will likely cause a huge selloff and is not in Nintendo's best interest. How are artificially high stock prices helping them?
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Dec 16, 2013 20:48
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Boiled Water posted:How are artificially high stock prices helping them? Its keeping investors on board. They're in a rather lovely situation right now where they can't effectively make money on the Wii U without spending money, but they can't really afford to spend that money.
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Dec 16, 2013 20:52
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Mr.Unique-Name posted:Its keeping investors on board. They're in a rather lovely situation right now where they can't effectively make money on the Wii U without spending money, but they can't really afford to spend that money. This sort of thing puts the whole "Nintendo's fine guys, really!" statements in question. If the Wii U is somehow making it impossible for them use to their bazillion dollar reserve earned from the Wii to effectively market the system, secure third party titles for the system, and produce more first party content for the system sooner rather than later, then what the hell is the point of the system even existing? I think they could kill the Wii U early, and if they came back with hardware that was designed to compete intelligently in the market they'd be fine. It's not like the Virtual Boy killed consumer confidence in Nintendo consoles (that was already in a freefall and it stayed that way until the Wii). If we can spot their stock prices as artificially inflated, surely the investors can as well. Wouldn't they be keen to take action to rectify that situation, or get out while they still can?
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Dec 16, 2013 21:10
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Atomicated posted:This probably just gets into another argument about the tablet but it feels like they spent money on their console poorly if at $350 they can't afford more than 32gb space in their console. My 20gb 360 started to feel incredibly cramped years ago and I never bought full retail games on it. It's because it is 32-gigs of flash memory. The other systems have hard drives. I think it is a design choice. Hard drives die a lot easier, but solid state memory is a lot more expensive. They probably could have ditched the flash memory and put a bigger laptop hard drive in there, but again, I think it was by design for whatever reason. It's not a "They couldn't afford more space" thing, it's a "Nintendo 64 has cartridges instead of CDs because they are more durable and have shorter load times" type thing. Zack_Gochuck fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Dec 16, 2013 |
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Dec 16, 2013 21:12
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Boiled Water posted:How are artificially high stock prices helping them? Artificially high? A stock price is generally what the company is worth. If investors thought that doom and gloom was in the future for Nintendo, they would be bailing and selling their stocks while the price is high right now before the company was worth nothing. You have companies like Twitter which have stock prices that started around $10 in November and now around $55, even though the company hasn't made a single profit yet. So even though Twitter is losing money, investors see potential in it and think it's worth something. So if Twitter were to be sold, its value would be high than if the stock price was going for pennies because nobody wanted to buy into it. Now I would imagine that cash reserves has something to do with investor confidence, but what the hell do I know? fivegears4reverse posted:If we can spot their stock prices as artificially inflated, surely the investors can as well. Wouldn't they be keen to take action to rectify that situation, or get out while they still can? Well poo poo, go buy some call options and short Nintendo and make some money off those bulls while you still can! Astro7x fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Dec 16, 2013 |
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Dec 16, 2013 21:18
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fivegears4reverse posted:If we can spot their stock prices as artificially inflated, surely the investors can as well. Wouldn't they be keen to take action to rectify that situation, or get out while they still can? The price isn't artificially inflated. They own those assets and are worth that much. It just isn't really growing, since most of the cash is in reserve. There's no reason for a panic selloff right now, as the stock price is pretty stable (it's actually up from this time last year). If they took that money and spent it, then there would be a very good reason to sell your stock in the company, because your stock would suddenly be worth a lot less. Part of me wonders if another reason that they keep the cash on hand is in case they need to to do a buyback and attempt to go private, but I don't think that would ever happen.
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Dec 16, 2013 21:43
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The stock price is high because they made a profit, off of counting their money in different currencies. Even better if they try to use that big load of money to make stuff the Nintendo could go into the red for a long time. A buyback using the stash, which is currently the only thing keeping nintendo in the black on account of favorable currency trading, would remove the stash practically put nintendo in the red. See also: What will happen if Nintendo stays the course.
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Dec 16, 2013 21:45
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Boiled Water posted:The stock price is high because they made a profit, off of counting their money in different currencies. Even better if they try to use that big load of money to make stuff the Nintendo could go into the red for a long time. Do you seriously think that profits are the only thing that drives up a stock's value?
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Dec 16, 2013 21:53
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I don't think the price will hold if the company is stagnant.
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Dec 16, 2013 21:54
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I keep hearing you guys mention how nintendos stock is high when its down to a fifth of what it was during the wii boom. I dont even think the wii u bombing worse than it is already is going to cut back on the stocks price, Im thinking its baked into it already.
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Dec 16, 2013 21:56
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