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J2DK posted:I really appreciate all the extra sound effects like Snake's damage ping from the cigarette, but does anyone know which file is the reflector sound? In project M, they changed it to the item pick up sound. I'd like to keep the unique Brawl sound. It's not that they replaced the sound effect, but they edited the moveset file to reassign that move to a play a different sfx. You could change it back using a program called 'Project Smash Attacks', but I have a feeling it's probably not very user friendly. Still fitfoxmotionect.pac and fitfalcomotionect.pac are the files you'd want to edit. They changed this because that's the sound Melee used. If it's any consolation, Wolf still uses the Brawl reflector sound. It kind of fits since now they look and sound visually distinct. miscellaneous14 posted:The fan translation wasn't released until four years after the DS came out, so by then Nintendo would be justified in thinking that the GBA was long dead and there wouldn't be any point in releasing the game considering everyone who wanted to play it would have already done so using a ROM and the patch. That's what Virtual Console is for.
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Dec 16, 2013 05:13
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Mother 3 is also an extremely niche title which features both potentially objectionable content and potentially copyright-infringing content. (Batman theme!) It is a lot of problems for very little benefit considering that Mother is itself a super-niche title.
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Dec 16, 2013 05:20
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OP says random input lag used to be a thing? Tell me about this, is it noticeable? And WHY was it a thing? I have had times where I could have sworn I was suffering lag - was that it or my imagination? Also can someone justify to me the "you must face a ledge to grab it" thing? It seems arbitrary and only takes away from game play. That isn't one of those changes that makes a higher skill ceiling, it is something that detracts game play value from those who do suck or are just used to always being able to grab an edge. I'm constantly forgetting that I need to be facing the ledge now.
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Dec 16, 2013 22:48
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This sounds really cool, but for some reason every SD card I have lying around is either 4GB+, dead, or super small (talking 256MB). But going to try this out once I find one. Is the 2GB a limit of the Wii or the program that they are using? NuminaXLT fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Dec 16, 2013 |
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Dec 16, 2013 23:04
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Space T Rex posted:OP says random input lag used to be a thing? Tell me about this, is it noticeable? And WHY was it a thing? I have had times where I could have sworn I was suffering lag - was that it or my imagination? It isn't so much that Project M had input lag, but that vanilla brawl has input lag that then naturally transferred over to Project M. This was taken out for the 2.5 update. There is a post about it here.
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Dec 16, 2013 23:09
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Space T Rex posted:Also can someone justify to me the "you must face a ledge to grab it" thing? It seems arbitrary and only takes away from game play. That isn't one of those changes that makes a higher skill ceiling, it is something that detracts game play value from those who do suck or are just used to always being able to grab an edge. I'm constantly forgetting that I need to be facing the ledge now. That's how it's been since the original game, until Brawl where you'd sweetspot the ledge no matter what. Some characters will grab the ledge if they started the Up+B attack facing the wrong direction though, like Link. Though you can always change the direction you're facing with your Up+B so it's not a big issue. NuminaXLT posted:Is the 2GB a limit of the Wii or the program that they are using? Brawl can't read over 2GB, the Wii can but not Brawl.
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Dec 16, 2013 23:37
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The edgegrabbing change is pretty dumb, because Brawl for whatever reason makes it basically impossible to turn in the air so it made sense to let people grab it however. They didn't really fix it in Project M so it's kind of a mess now. Not a big deal exactly since everybody's Up+B is reworked, at least. Ptarmigans posted:It isn't so much that Project M had input lag, but that vanilla brawl has input lag that then naturally transferred over to Project M. This was taken out for the 2.5 update. There is a post about it here. Does anyone know if this might just be an issue using a GCN controller? I didn't have this issue back then and I use wiimote and nunchuk, but huge input delay is one of the reasons I hated Melee. Rockstar Massacre fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Dec 16, 2013 |
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Dec 16, 2013 23:44
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Utgardaloki posted:The edgegrabbing change is pretty dumb, because Brawl for whatever reason makes it basically impossible to turn in the air so it made sense to let people grab it however. Utgardaloki posted:Does anyone know if this might just be an issue using a GCN controller? I didn't have this issue back then and I use wiimote and nunchuk, but huge input delay is one of the reasons I hated Melee. Melee didn't have a huge input delay. Maybe you are confusing it with Melee's longer hitstun?
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Dec 17, 2013 00:08
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Ptarmigans posted:Melee didn't have a huge input delay. Maybe you are confusing it with Melee's longer hitstun? Nah, I did a tourney just a few weeks ago and jumped in on the Melee bracket for kicks not having played it in years and it was more noticeable than ever even right at the start of a match. It bothered me when Melee came out too, though less so as I got used to it. Brawl's input delay is probably completely lost to me since it's insignificant next to HD lag.
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Dec 17, 2013 00:25
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Space T Rex posted:OP says random input lag used to be a thing? Tell me about this, is it noticeable? And WHY was it a thing? I have had times where I could have sworn I was suffering lag - was that it or my imagination? Also can someone justify to me the "you must face a ledge to grab it" thing? It seems arbitrary and only takes away from game play. That isn't one of those changes that makes a higher skill ceiling, it is something that detracts game play value from those who do suck or are just used to always being able to grab an edge. I'm constantly forgetting that I need to be facing the ledge now. Facing the ledge to grab it does have some legit gameplay implications though! • In Brawl, you can edgehog by just sprinting over the ledge, whereas in Melee you need to take at least some time to turn around, and there are several different ways you can grab that ledge with tradeoffs: turning around and wavedashing off the ledge is a universal one, as is the slower version where you just shorthop off instead of wavedashing off that ledge; some characters can Moonwalk off; and several characters sprint off the edge and then turn around in the air with some fast Special move -- but many of those are recovery moves which will put you in a lot more trouble if you mistime it and your opponent is able to claim the ledge just before you. • Mario's Cape is also more deadly when your opponent can't grab a ledge behind them, so you can credibly threaten a low-percent kill over more of the stage. • A few moves (very notably Samus and Peach's respective d-smashes) hit your opponents behind you, which means they start their recovery facing away from the ledge; thus most opponents need to land directly on the stage without using the ledge, or they need to use a Special move to turn around in order to be able to grab that ledge. Your job of edgeguarding is easier if your opponent can't grab the ledge as quickly or as easily. Honestly I think that 64 and Melee's inability vs Brawl's ability to grab a ledge backwards are both legit design choices, but I don't think it has nearly as much of an impact as a lot of other stuff that the Project M team changed (like hitstun, character gravity and max fall speeds, and how recovery Specials can't grab the ledge while rising). I do understand that it's frustrating to die a stupid death because Project M conflicts with your muscle memory and/or expectations. But it does meaningfully affect your in-game options and decisions. (If you want to talk about L-canceling, on the other hand...) Utgardaloki posted:Nah, I did a tourney just a few weeks ago and jumped in on the Melee bracket for kicks not having played it in years and it was more noticeable than ever even right at the start of a match. It bothered me when Melee came out too, though less so as I got used to it. Melee's input buffer is close to nonexistent* -- is that possibly what you're thinking of? Or the fact that shield-dropping takes some an appreciable amount of time, versus Brawl's nigh-instantaneous shield-drop? Because I'm pretty sure Melee has about as little input lag as a 60fps game can be if your TV is actually responsive enough (and/or was it the TV, or was there an RCA/Component-to-HDMI converter?). *There's a 1-frame buffer in general iirc, but it might be slightly more generous for certain actions, like inputting an aerial while you're still in the process of jumping? Don't quote me on this. Likewise I have no idea what you mean by "Brawl for whatever reason makes it basically impossible to turn in the air", unless you're talking about the physics weirdness that is the recoil special? And it's easier to turn around when doing a running jump in Brawl, giving rise to the reverse aerial rush.
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Dec 17, 2013 03:30
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Just got a 2GB SD card, got project M, all custom stages are gone, go to vault, open stage builder, and nothing....? (I lost my old sd card with an older version of proj m on it) Space T Rex fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Dec 17, 2013 |
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Dec 17, 2013 03:46
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Multi-jump characters like Kirby, Jigglypuff, DeDeDe, Pit, Charizard, and Metaknight can turnaround in the air by jumping. All other characters cannot.
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Dec 17, 2013 04:05
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I've tried everything. The OP instructions didnt work out so I went here http://www.ign.com/wikis/smash-bros-project-m/How_to_Install_Project_M and used the installer to download the hackless full verison, and when it completes it says I can play project M immediatley. This is a lie. How do other people get this going? I am not a computer guy teach me like I'm 10. A not computer saavy 10 year old. Like the ones who play football.
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Dec 17, 2013 05:12
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Abjad Soup posted:(If you want to talk about L-canceling, on the other hand...) I'm not entirely familiar with L-canceling aside from just knowing it speeds up the recovery time on certain attacks, so I'm curious about something: is there any point to (from the perspective of balancing) not just reducing the recovery time on the attacks it affects, effectively cutting out the middleman? Since I can't see any reason why someone wouldn't want to use this mechanic in any situation it's applicable, anyway. By contrast, wave-dashing is something where the usage would change depending on the situation, so I can understand that requiring an input so the player has control over how it's used.
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Dec 17, 2013 05:29
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Space T Rex posted:I've tried everything. The OP instructions didnt work out so I went here http://www.ign.com/wikis/smash-bros-project-m/How_to_Install_Project_M and used the installer to download the hackless full verison, and when it completes it says I can play project M immediatley. This is a lie. How do other people get this going? Download the .zip file from Project M's website, unzip it to an empty SD card (make sure the card is 2gb, no more), put the SD card in your Wii, boot brawl, delete all your custom stages (including the 3 that come as samples with the game). At this point you may need to restart your console, but from that point forward, you should be able to start project M simply by going to the Stage Builder menu in Brawl.
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Dec 17, 2013 05:29
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ChaosArgate posted:Yeah, Final Destination may seem to be completely fair and great for those crazy tournament players, but when you think about it, the lack of platforms gives characters with quick projectiles a slight edge just cuz it's a little harder to avoid them. True Smash Nerds play Battlefield! Unfortunately it's the most boring stage in the game, too.
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Dec 17, 2013 05:46
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miscellaneous14 posted:I'm not entirely familiar with L-canceling aside from just knowing it speeds up the recovery time on certain attacks, so I'm curious about something: is there any point to (from the perspective of balancing) not just reducing the recovery time on the attacks it affects, effectively cutting out the middleman? Since I can't see any reason why someone wouldn't want to use this mechanic in any situation it's applicable, anyway. Because it separates the men from the boys in competitive play.
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Dec 17, 2013 06:01
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jivjov posted:Download the .zip file from Project M's website, unzip it to an empty SD card (make sure the card is 2gb, no more), put the SD card in your Wii, boot brawl, delete all your custom stages (including the 3 that come as samples with the game). At this point you may need to restart your console, but from that point forward, you should be able to start project M simply by going to the Stage Builder menu in Brawl. I have done exactly this about 10 times now. 2GB SD card. All my stages and the default customs have been gone for months. The SD card has the proper format. Still not working. Any idea what could be going wrong?
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Dec 17, 2013 06:02
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Are you copying everything to the root of the SD Card? Everything inside the Nohomebrew folder should be copied to the root of the SD Card, but the Nohomebrew folder itself shouldn't.
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Dec 17, 2013 06:14
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Space T Rex posted:OP says random input lag used to be a thing? Tell me about this, is it noticeable? And WHY was it a thing? I have had times where I could have sworn I was suffering lag - was that it or my imagination? Also can someone justify to me the "you must face a ledge to grab it" thing? It seems arbitrary and only takes away from game play. That isn't one of those changes that makes a higher skill ceiling, it is something that detracts game play value from those who do suck or are just used to always being able to grab an edge. I'm constantly forgetting that I need to be facing the ledge now. It's really obvious if you've ever played Ike in normal Brawl. Sometimes you'll get knocked off the stage and do his hour long neutral A leaving you with no time to recover, but you're SURE you pressed the A when you were still on the ground.
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Dec 17, 2013 06:16
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Probably a longshot, but when I was setting mine up I chanced upon a posting about a common line of SD cards sold that said 2GB on the card but were actually 4. Check that Windows or whatever also shows it as 2gb to rule that one out.
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Dec 17, 2013 06:19
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miscellaneous14 posted:I'm not entirely familiar with L-canceling aside from just knowing it speeds up the recovery time on certain attacks, so I'm curious about something: is there any point to (from the perspective of balancing) not just reducing the recovery time on the attacks it affects, effectively cutting out the middleman? Since I can't see any reason why someone wouldn't want to use this mechanic in any situation it's applicable, anyway. I'm personally pretty used to l cancelling but i wouldn't miss it if it there auto l cancelling! It just feels like a big barrier to introducing people to the game
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Dec 17, 2013 06:23
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:It's really obvious if you've ever played Ike in normal Brawl. Sometimes you'll get knocked off the stage and do his hour long neutral A leaving you with no time to recover, but you're SURE you pressed the A when you were still on the ground. I mained Ike for like 3 years so yep. Lakitu7 posted:Probably a longshot, but when I was setting mine up I chanced upon a posting about a common line of SD cards sold that said 2GB on the card but were actually 4. Check that Windows or whatever also shows it as 2gb to rule that one out. SON OF A BITCH THIS IS 3.71GB BUT IT SAYS 2GB IN HUGE FONT RIGHT ON IT. BULLLSHIIIIIIIT.
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Dec 17, 2013 06:25
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Wow. Well, possibly advise us on what brand it is so perhaps somebody else might be spared in the future? At least Amazon has 2gb cards for like $6 and they can't *all* be actually 4GB, right?
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Dec 17, 2013 06:43
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It says "PNY" and then Premium in a gold bar under that. Its blue.
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Dec 17, 2013 06:44
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F. Lobot posted:Multi-jump characters like Kirby, Jigglypuff, DeDeDe, Pit, Charizard, and Metaknight can turnaround in the air by jumping. All other characters cannot. Yep! That's why I said "thus most opponents" and considered calling it out directly but I figured I was already rambling on long enough. (And don't forget the single-double-jumping Yoshi!) miscellaneous14 posted:I'm not entirely familiar with L-canceling aside from just knowing it speeds up the recovery time on certain attacks, so I'm curious about something: is there any point to (from the perspective of balancing) not just reducing the recovery time on the attacks it affects, effectively cutting out the middleman? Since I can't see any reason why someone wouldn't want to use this mechanic in any situation it's applicable, anyway. Maple Leaf posted:Because it separates the men from the boys in competitive play. Yeah L-canceling just says, if you hit a shield button within 7 frames before landing during one of your aerial attacks, then halve the landing lag. There's no mechanical downside to L-canceling -- a missed L-cancel is a mistake, pure and simple. You need to balance the roster around top-level play, so you need to assume everyone hits every L-cancel all the time; but otherwise no, there's no inter-character balancing that depends in any way on L-canceling. The mechanic an execution barrier (i.e. an extra piece of muscle memory you have to practice and train into your fingers) which provides no additional meaningful interaction with your opponent. It's just an extra opportunity to mess up while you're learning the game. ASIDE: If we were to be unreasonably circumspect, I can think of maybe two tiny spots of extra interaction where L-canceling could make a difference. 1: you can mix up your light and heavy shields to try to mess up Falco's timing for L-canceling his d-air into Shine. 2: a super-low-crouch of a landing animation might make you duck under some projectile or other attack, and skipping the L-cancel would keep you "ducking" for a few frames longer. That's not to say execution barriers are bad, in and of themselves -- wavedashing happens to be an execution barrier that also provides a ton of meaningful interaction with your opponent! You can wavedash out of reach of a descending opponent's aerial while keeping them within range of your counterattack. You can waveland on+off platforms to move around incredibly quickly (including edgehogging, as I mentioned above). Wavedashing lets you perform any of your ground attacks (not just dash attack/u-smash/up-B) while approaching your opponent. Some characters can even wavedash faster than they can run (especially Luigi!). I think a "slide" like miscellaneous14 suggested would be a cool way to reduce the technical difficulties while keeping most/all of the desirable mechanics and interactions, but wavedashing at least has these interesting upsides, and it comes for free with the physics and controls of the game already. I am fairly fundamentally opposed to game mechanics that make the game harder to play without a clear benefit to the actual interactions that make up the gameplay. L-canceling has the cost of an execution barrier while providing no benefit to gameplay; as such, it's a bad piece of game design. Maybe L-canceling provides some social benefits/investment to players and spectators of your game, as it's a fairly simple mechanical divider between more and less dedicated players; or maybe there's some emotional sweetspot for the right number of button presses per second that Melee (or Project M) would fall short of -- this is outside the purview of My Game Design Philosophy™ but I am open to it as a possibility! And it's very much worth stating that for all I (kinda) hate L-canceling as a mechanic, Melee is still an utterly fantastic game that I love. I sure got a lot of feelings on L-canceling!!! Space T Rex posted:It says "PNY" and then Premium in a gold bar under that. Its blue. Dang that sucks -- I found and used http://www.wiibrew.org/wiki/SD/SDHC_Card_Compatibility_Tests when I got my current SD card for Wii hacking shiz, though that was years ago. Good luck! Grace Baiting fucked around with this message at 07:22 on Dec 17, 2013 |
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Dec 17, 2013 07:16
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L-Cancelling is dumb as hell and should be removed. Just halve all recovery frames on landing aerials.
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Dec 17, 2013 07:29
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I went to GameStop and asked for a 2GB SD card and they sold a used one to me for $2 or so and it ended up working perfectly, so that might be worth trying. Especially since nobody else seems to sell 2GB cards anymore without charging an exorbitant amount for them (seriously CVS, $20 for two 2GB cards? I wouldn't even pay half of that for one  ).
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Dec 17, 2013 07:30
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Abjad Soup posted:Maybe L-canceling provides some social benefits/investment to players and spectators of your game, as it's a fairly simple mechanical divider between more and less dedicated players; or maybe there's some emotional sweetspot for the right number of button presses per second that Melee (or Project M) would fall short of -- this is outside the purview of My Game Design Philosophy™ but I am open to it as a possibility! And it's very much worth stating that for all I (kinda) hate L-canceling as a mechanic, Melee is still an utterly fantastic game that I love. There's definitely something viscerally satisfying about pushing buttons - A friend of mine told me the other day that Magicka: Wizard Wars is a real hoot, because everything you do is a Raging Demon. I'm not sure if L-Cancelling reaches the perfect sweetspot that you mentioned, but yeah, it definitely feels good to nail an important L-Cancel (and getting hosed up for missing one stings real bad). I'd be fine with it being gone, but I can't say I really hate the mechanic either.
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Dec 17, 2013 07:35
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Countblanc posted:There's definitely something viscerally satisfying about pushing buttons - A friend of mine told me the other day that Magicka: Wizard Wars is a real hoot, because everything you do is a Raging Demon. I'm not sure if L-Cancelling reaches the perfect sweetspot that you mentioned, but yeah, it definitely feels good to nail an important L-Cancel (and getting hosed up for missing one stings real bad). I'd be fine with it being gone, but I can't say I really hate the mechanic either. This is exactly my feeling. I've played smash for years without even knowing what an L-Cancel is, but now I can do it most of the time, and getting a Mario D-Air into a grab or a D-Smash just feels great every time.
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Dec 17, 2013 15:56
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Space T Rex posted:SON OF A BITCH THIS IS 3.71GB BUT IT SAYS 2GB IN HUGE FONT RIGHT ON IT. BULLLSHIIIIIIIT. whalestory posted:I'm personally pretty used to l cancelling but i wouldn't miss it if it there auto l cancelling! It just feels like a big barrier to introducing people to the game L-cancelling has no downside or risk, it is most beneficial to always L-cancel. It could be automatic, but there are two reasons it isn't.
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Dec 18, 2013 08:06
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F. Lobot posted:You bought the "2GB" PNY card from Walmart? A lot of people have been getting burned by that, so I sympathize with you. You need an actual 2GB card not an impostor. I've heard PNY cards won't work at all, which is strange because I have a Polaroid PNY card that is working fine.
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Dec 18, 2013 08:21
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Abjad Soup posted:I am fairly fundamentally opposed to game mechanics that make the game harder to play without a clear benefit to the actual interactions that make up the gameplay. L-canceling has the cost of an execution barrier while providing no benefit to gameplay; as such, it's a bad piece of game design. You must hate other fighting games then, Smash has some of the most lenient controls compared to other fighters which have stupid inputs (charges and full circles) and combos that rely on one frame links.
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Dec 18, 2013 09:53
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But charging and full circles actually impact gameplay and aren't just execution barriers. Charging means you can't just toss it out and it's often harder to combo into the moves, not to mention they're far more obvious. Guile has to walk backwards or block for two seocnds to toss out a sonic boom, and crouch to toss out a flash kick. Full circles mean you can't just input the motion from neutral because you'll wind up jumping if you try, you have to buffer it out of something else - a move, an empty jump, whatever.
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Dec 18, 2013 09:55
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It's worth keeping in mind that one of the main appeals of the Smash series is that, unlike conventional fighting games, there aren't any sort of execution barriers that prevent a player from being able to do all a character is capable of outside of just knowing how to use a game controller. I would suggest that the reason for all the vitriolic arguments about things like wave-dashing, L-canceling, etc is because the execution of these maneuvers feels totally different compared to the basic mechanics of the game and people feel that "ruins" the inherent simplicity of the design. I've already mentioned that I like wave-dashing as a gameplay mechanic and that it's a shame Nintendo didn't try to integrate that naturally into the series like Capcom did for combos in Street Fighter. Personally I'm not a fan of L-cancelling because by comparison it doesn't radically change the nature of the gameplay, and also because it's yet another function for the triggers which already feel crowded with other uses.
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Dec 18, 2013 10:22
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Any news on 4GB+ version yet? My friends and I want to play.
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Dec 18, 2013 12:11
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SystemLogoff posted:Any news on 4GB+ version yet? My friends and I want to play. Not yet. They're working on it though.
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Dec 18, 2013 12:30
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Tried this out last night and it was a total blast! I couldn't find turbo mode for ages until I just did the next best thing by just doing 4-player fights with high-drops of the turbo-curry. Then I checked the website this morning and there IS a switch. Doy!  I'm amazed how well Sonic controls and the little changes make him really drat useful. Also can't remember if I ever used Mewtwo or Roy in Melee but i'm liking them a lot in PM. Some of the new tracks are...interesting.
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Dec 18, 2013 14:45
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Yeah and Endorph and miscellaneous14 know what I'm on about. Though if we accept for the sake of the argument that Project M had to duplicate Melee's L-canceling mechanics, I am very glad Project M added that white flash on a successful L-cancel. Actually, they should do the same for when you initiate a fast-fall too (i.e. make that little sparkle like in 64). ...hey Shadic! You still around? Turbo mode is kinda amazing, gotta agree.
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Dec 18, 2013 17:00
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Abjad Soup posted:Actually, they should do the same for when you initiate a fast-fall too (i.e. make that little sparkle like in 64). That'd be cool, but unnecessary. There's no strict timing with a fastfall. You just press down, and it's already visually obvious when it happens. It's actually easier in this game than in Brawl.
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Dec 18, 2013 18:23
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