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MonsieurChoc posted:I'm continuing to watch Seed Destiny at a (very) slow pace. Just got to Episode 29, whichis yet another clip show. What's annoying is we got something like 5-7 minutes of an actual good episode mixed with a terrible clipshow, as Durandal argues with Le Creuset's ghost about destiny and whatnot. Durandal really is the best character of this show so far. I mean, I'm sure he'll turn out to be evil and all that, but for now he seems to be the villain of a better, smarter show. You're in for a treat when later on in the show, Durandal makes perfectly rational decisions yet to the AA crew, he's acting like a horrible tyrant.
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Dec 17, 2013 07:58
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Nah, that was just the result of a really lovely episode end point. "Yeah so Logos is the worst thing ever and we're going to stop them." "THIS IS REALLY BAD GUYS!" *next episode* "A lot of the guys he's targeting are high ranking ORB officials!
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Dec 17, 2013 08:08
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I was thinking more along the line of OH MY GOD HE'S INVADING ORB! WE HAVE TO DEFEND THE COUNTRY! (lets just ignore the fact that the country's government was actively involved in providing shelter for a guy who killed hundreds of thousands of people and helped jump-start a huge war)
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Dec 17, 2013 08:17
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i like the part where the idea of a military industrial complex is treated as a giant earth shattering reveal that they spend over half an episode explaining labouriously
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Dec 17, 2013 10:34
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Monaghan posted:I was thinking more along the line of OH MY GOD HE'S INVADING ORB! WE HAVE TO DEFEND THE COUNTRY! (lets just ignore the fact that the country's government was actively involved in providing shelter for a guy who killed hundreds of thousands of people and helped jump-start a huge war) You know, I've seen this pop up a couple of times, I think even in this thread before, and it always annoys me: Yes, Djibril is a racist, genocidal gently caress who pushes war to his own ends. That doesn't suddenly make it okay for ZAFT to unilaterally decide to invade a neutral country so that they can kill the gently caress out of him. ZAFT doesn't even make an attempt at diplomacy, they just go full on 'give us what we want or we'll murder you too', which makes sense when you consider that Durandil also wanted to pacify orb as a lead up to the destiny plan. I think its also fair to say that the Archangel crew has fair reason to be anti-durandil. He did try to have several of them straight up assassinated earlier in the series, went all identity theft on Lacus and he does follow up the attack on orb by attempting to fire a giant death laser at them. There are a lot of things wrong with SEED destiny, but Kira and friends being pissed off at an invasion of ORB isn't one of them.
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Dec 17, 2013 12:01
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MonsieurChoc posted:Why would Loran go back to Sochie? He never once showed any sign of being interested in her that way, while he did show many signs of being deeply devoted to Dianna. To me, he's way more likely of just living as a hermit in the forest, Jeremiah Johnson-style, than going back to Sochie if/when Dianna dies. Well, the great big passionate kiss he gives her before taking off with Dianna could be taken as something of a clue. It's pretty much the only physical affection we see him give anyone in the show.
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Dec 17, 2013 12:43
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Caros posted:There are a lot of things wrong with SEED destiny, but Kira and friends being pissed off at an invasion of ORB isn't one of them. It does seem like the sort of thing Jesus and company would have done cheerfully if they'd had the idea themselves, though.
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Dec 17, 2013 13:35
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Midjack posted:It does seem like the sort of thing Jesus and company would have done cheerfully if they'd had the idea themselves, though. To give them very very slight credit, I'm fairly sure that Kira and his stupid friends interfered with battles involving Orb almost exclusively (and with Cagalli right there), aside from the Berlin Battle where they interfered to stop Stellar from melting babies. So it is ideologically consistent even if it's stupid. They're fine with the EA and ZAFT slaughtering each other as long as it doesn't involve them.
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Dec 17, 2013 13:47
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Paper Lion posted:i like the part where the idea of a military industrial complex is treated as a giant earth shattering reveal that they spend over half an episode explaining labouriously The intended audience of SEED and Destiny was a new generation of Japanese teenagers who might not know or give a poo poo about this kind of thing existing in real life, so explaining a concept like this makes sense, at least. Caros posted:You know, I've seen this pop up a couple of times, I think even in this thread before, and it always annoys me: To be entirely fair to ZAFT, there's a total of three independent political entities in Destiny: the EA, ZAFT, and Orb. Who are they going to form a consensus with, exactly? Djibril's organization was using both Orb and the EA as puppet states to shield their true activities, there's absolutely no way either of them would voluntarily give him up without being forced to. I can see that dialogue now: Durandal: We'd like you to give up for trial the man responsible for the attempted destruction of our homeland and our entire population via WMDs and the genocide of hundreds of thousands of completely innocent civilians in Europe and across the rest of the world. EA: gently caress you, we're at war with you and that guy's a very important contributor. Orb: What he said. Kira and friends personally having a hate-on for Durandal makes perfect sense because he actively attempted to have them killed. It also makes sense for them to defend Orb because it's effectively their homeland, even if it's pretty much a reprehensible puppet state enslaved to the will of a war criminal and murderer at that point(but don't worry, they have no problems pulling a coup de tat by force of their own to fix that).
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Dec 17, 2013 15:10
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Yeah but Destiny came out after MGS 2 did and basically everyone that would watch gundam would be pretty familiar with that (certainly everyone still watching Destiny in the episode 25ish range which is when it happened). plus come the gently caress on, any idiot figured that poo poo out when theyre a kid
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Dec 17, 2013 15:16
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Kanos posted:The intended audience of SEED and Destiny was a new generation of Japanese teenagers who might not know or give a poo poo about this kind of thing existing in real life, so explaining a concept like this makes sense, at least. There's also the fact that ZAFT was out for blood in the worst way when they invaded ORB. The TSA's objectives seemed to be 'find Djibril and hand him over, but in the meantime try to keep the ZAFT troops from mowing through too many innocents, because they don't seem to be listening to reason'.
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Dec 17, 2013 15:46
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MonsieurChoc posted:And god I hate the eyecatchs. I loathe them with every fiber of my being. What, you don't like the Garden of Eden? Honestly I don't know why people were shocked when the show shifted to Kira's perspective, especially when that was the goddamn eyecatch for the entire series. I mean hell, at least SEED had the decency to have Athrun blowing bubbles with Lacus for about 37 episodes before Kira replaced him. Christ did I really just write an argument in defense of Destiny?!
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Dec 17, 2013 17:01
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TARDISman posted:What, you don't like the Garden of Eden? Honestly I don't know why people were shocked when the show shifted to Kira's perspective, especially when that was the goddamn eyecatch for the entire series. I mean hell, at least SEED had the decency to have Athrun blowing bubbles with Lacus for about 37 episodes before Kira replaced him. Christ did I really just write an argument in defense of Destiny?! I have defended the setting, side characters and wasted plot concepts before. You can like the bubbles man. They were better than Kira and Lacus giving the googly eyes.
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Dec 17, 2013 17:41
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The real issue with that entire battle was how Cagalli decides that it'd be a super good idea to keep the battle going instead of stopping it as soon as she is able to. It's a mind-bogglingly stupid decision, and it's arguably the reason why the rest of the show happens.
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Dec 17, 2013 17:57
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Caros posted:You know, I've seen this pop up a couple of times, I think even in this thread before, and it always annoys me: others have covered my points but come on What was zaft supposed to do exactly? just sit there and let djibril get away? Orb wasn't neutral at all at this point, they signed a treaty with the alliance and were harboring a dangerous war criminal. Zaft said- give him up or we're coming in. Sounds perfectly rational to me. What really bugs me is that the AA crew never seem reflective of their actions, they don't even consider if they're doing the righ thing. They don't even reflect on the fact that, gee, maybe by trying to stop Zaft forces, they helped let a genocidal madman get away. They don't even do this when Djibril does manage to get away and destroy half a dozen colonies. The audience is just told to accept that what they're doing is right. I'm not saying that the AA crew didn't have a reason to be mistrustful of durandal, but I still can't accept the argument that the invasion wasn't justified. Monaghan fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Dec 17, 2013 |
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Dec 17, 2013 18:11
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BlitzBlast posted:The real issue with that entire battle was how Cagalli decides that it'd be a super good idea to keep the battle going instead of stopping it as soon as she is able to. It's a mind-bogglingly stupid decision, and it's arguably the reason why the rest of the show happens. The thing is that with the coup, ORB switched over from being run by LOGOS to being run by the TSA. Durandal had already made his feelings on the TSA quite clear with all the death-squads he kept sending after their members (and potential members, like when he tried to have Athrun murdered for looking vaguely unhappy after Operation Angel Down). There was little reason for them to believe he'd honour a ceasefire.
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Dec 17, 2013 18:37
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That doesn't explain anything. ZAFT's goal is to capture Djibril, which they have to invade ORB to do because Yuna's government refuses to cooperate. TSA's goal is to restore Cagalli's power and see Djibril face justice, neither of which go against ZAFT's aim. Similarly Durandal wasn't the field commander. If you really think Talia would respond to a ceasefire that would enable Djibril's capture with "lol no let's keep fighting" I don't know what to say. And gently caress, even if that did happen for some reason, that doesn't change the fact that Cagalli didn't even try to negotiate. ORB's ideals? I guess those are just training weights the royal family can cast off whenever they feel like it. ...Which is exactly what Shinn said way back at the beginning.  EDIT: Also as obviously evil as Durandal is, he's not nearly petty enough to turn down Djibril being handed to him on a silver platter just because TSA helped out. If Cagalli and co actually thought he'd refuse that, they'd have to be brain dead. Which, going by the show, they are. BlitzBlast fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Dec 17, 2013 |
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Dec 17, 2013 18:57
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BlitzBlast posted:
But Cagalli is crying! 
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Dec 17, 2013 19:04
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BlitzBlast posted:That doesn't explain anything. It's extremely, truly, blatantly, incredibly, definitely made clear that the ideals of Kira and company extend exactly as far as is necessary to ensure the immediate well-being of The Chosen Few and are casually disregarded or ignored when they're inconvenient. Remember how King of Non-Lethal Disarmament Kira Yamato decided to kill Stellar because reasons? Or when Cagalli ducked out on an arranged marriage and completely abandoned her country by vanishing on the eve of a world war and global crisis, assumed she could just walk back in and resume her previous position of authority(and broke down in tears like a child when it turned out she quite reasonably couldn't), and then had her brother and his friends forcibly eject the interim government and put her back in power? Or when they functionally defended a known and wanted mass murderer by loving with the people trying to bring him to justice, which let him get away to murder another couple million people whose blood was pretty much entirely on Orb's hands? Oh wait we were just talking about that last one. The Klyne faction's incredible hubris and hypocrisy is so blatant and repugnant that if SEED and Destiny were more clever shows I would read them as subversive antagonists.
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Dec 17, 2013 19:10
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The latest episode of Destiny HD apparently had some new footage of the Ootori pack, so I decided to check it out. I've gotta say, "randomly eject the backpack so it can fly into the beam that you magically know is being fired" has got to be the weirdest strategy I've ever seen. "Throw your giant sword then make it somehow self-destruct" makes a close second. And for a brand new scene that was supposed to be an advertisement for the MG, the fight scene was way worse than the average Build Fighters fight. Great going Destiny. EDIT: Nice how the enemy grunts suddenly lost all competence as soon as Kira launched in the SF too.
BlitzBlast fucked around with this message at 07:09 on Dec 20, 2013 |
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Dec 20, 2013 07:03
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BlitzBlast posted:And for a brand new scene that was supposed to be an advertisement for the MG, the fight scene was way worse than the average Build Fighters fight. Great going Destiny. To be fair it has probably 1/10th the budget to do that in. Destiny HD is working with a fairly small budget and a minimal amount of freedom with what they can alter. It doesn't make it less dumb but it isn't like they're on equal footing with what they can do.
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Dec 20, 2013 07:33
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I don't think budget is the only reason. Seed and Seed Destiny have really horrible fight choregraphy, even when compared to old Gundam shows. Victory Gundam has way better battles, with a lot more movement, strategy and tension, despite being made on a shoestring budget. Just look at the Abigor fight as an example.
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Dec 20, 2013 15:44
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MonsieurChoc posted:I don't think budget is the only reason. Seed and Seed Destiny have really horrible fight choregraphy, even when compared to old Gundam shows. Victory Gundam has way better battles, with a lot more movement, strategy and tension, despite being made on a shoestring budget. Just look at the Abigor fight as an example. The fight choreography in the new scene isn't really that bad though, especially for a SEED fight. It's just obviously low-budget animation. It was the same with the Perfect Strike fight in SEED HD where it was clear they only had enough budget for a low-animation fight and so it just ends up looking really rushed and quick. It's honestly not that bad a sequence aside from the fact that it furthers the unending glory that is Kira Yamato, our lord and savior, and that it is obviously low budget. The Strike Freedom part honestly looks worse than the Strike Rouge part which is sad. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Dec 20, 2013 |
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Dec 20, 2013 21:07
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MonsieurChoc posted:I don't think budget is the only reason. Seed and Seed Destiny have really horrible fight choregraphy, even when compared to old Gundam shows. Victory Gundam has way better battles, with a lot more movement, strategy and tension, despite being made on a shoestring budget. Just look at the Abigor fight as an example. While it's a well-choreographed fight, I still get a kick of how the vast majority of V Gundam battles have to have pathos and pointless tragedy ladled on by the gallon.
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Dec 20, 2013 21:50
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ImpAtom posted:The fight choreography in the new scene isn't really that bad though, especially for a SEED fight. Yeah, if there's no stock animation at all it's golden for SEED. ImpAtom posted:It's honestly not that bad a sequence Not sure if I agree with this though. Kira doesn't even get a Newtype flash or whatever to justify his sudden decision to detach the Ootori, he just magically knows that ZAKU is going to fire. Similarly his sword is apparently explosive, and I guess the Strike's shield is just really good against positron cannons or something? EDIT: Oh wait, on a rewatch, the sword doesn't blow up. Never mind on that. BlitzBlast fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Dec 20, 2013 |
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Dec 20, 2013 22:39
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BlitzBlast posted:Yeah, if there's no stock animation at all it's golden for SEED. The pack thing is just the "show the same period of twice in a row but in different places" thing anime does a lot, where we're supposed to assume Kira is detaching the pack at the same moment the ZAKU is firing. (They probably should have shown the firing first and then the pack detach for better 'flow' though.) It's still not that great but it didn't seem that bad. Build Fighters however means it sure as hell isn't the best fight involving a Strike Gundam and a Zaku this year though.
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Dec 20, 2013 22:54
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ImpAtom posted:The pack thing is just the "show the same period of twice in a row but in different places" thing anime does a lot, where we're supposed to assume Kira is detaching the pack at the same moment the ZAKU is firing. (They probably should have shown the firing first and then the pack detach for better 'flow' though.) Low budget aside, this scene infuriates me way more than it should. The entire point of that scene in the original show was for Kira to lose, and to lose badly. He's launching in a several year old mobile suit against ZAFT's top of the line equipment and he gets loving stomped, which pairs off rather well when he then gets in the Strike Freedom and returns the favor. I get destiny isn't a very good series, but that scene was at least interesting before. Now it looks like Kira probably could have wrecked all his opponents in the strike, but Lacus went through all that trouble getting him the Strike Freedom, so he might as well. Also, I've said it before and I will say it again. Strike Freedom is a stupid loving name for a suit that takes basically nothing from the strike. Call it the Eternal Freedom and at least its name still pairs well with the Infinite Justice.
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Dec 20, 2013 23:51
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Caros posted:The entire point of that scene in the original show was for Kira to lose, and to lose badly. He's launching in a several year old mobile suit against ZAFT's top of the line equipment and he gets loving stomped, which pairs off rather well when he then gets in the Strike Freedom and returns the favor. To be fair, from a writing perspective, I understand why they did this. A lot of the times when people mention this scene (even on Japanese message boards), it is not in the context of "Kira was outperformed by high-spec machines" but that it reflects poorly on Kira's skills as a pilot/doesn't make 'sense' because it makes Kira look like a bad pilot/Jesus Yamato sucks without his aimbot/whatever. What people took away from the original scene is "Kira needs Freedom to put up a good fight" instead of "Kira is capable of fighting new models even in an outdated mobile suit." The new scene still has him getting wrecked but after putting up a better showing which 'fixes' that problem. It's frustrating because it just gives Kira even more shiny candy about how great he is, but from an actual writing perspective it makes more sense to accentuate "he's a good pilot who needs a machine that can keep up" right before he gets that machine. Basically my biggest problem with the scene is that Kira Yamato is an unlikable shithead and nothing will change that, so it's hard for me to care that he gets a 'sensible' scene, but from a production standpoint, it makes sense to make it less of a stomp.
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Dec 20, 2013 23:57
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ImpAtom posted:To be fair, from a writing perspective, I understand why they did this. They sort of did that idea with the Franken-Exia in the beginning of 00 season 2, and really the end of season 1 too, in the opposite direction with the GN-X squad. But yeah, it definitely would have worked better if Kira wasn't such a massive piece of poo poo.
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Dec 21, 2013 00:04
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chumbler posted:They sort of did that idea with the Franken-Exia in the beginning of 00 season 2, and really the end of season 1 too, in the opposite direction with the GN-X squad. Both of which, incidentally, I would consider to be some of the more engaging parts of that show.
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Dec 21, 2013 01:07
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"That Lt. Matilda, she is bangin' hot!" is the kind of translation that makes me just stare at the page for a minute in utter bewilderment. (My copy of Vol. 4 of The Origin arrived.)
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Dec 21, 2013 22:04
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ImpAtom posted:"That Lt. Matilda, she is bangin' hot!" is the kind of translation that makes me just stare at the page for a minute in utter bewilderment. If you want to be bewildered, what in the world is going on with the color illustrations of Sayla at the end?
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Dec 21, 2013 22:11
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Gammatron 64 posted:If you want to be bewildered, what in the world is going on with the color illustrations of Sayla at the end? Bad art and shame.
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Dec 21, 2013 23:12
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Gammatron 64 posted:If you want to be bewildered, what in the world is going on with the color illustrations of Sayla at the end? I love how the actual short that proceeds it is nothing but talking about how amazing The Origins art and how the artist drawing that short can't possibly hope to compete and he doens't understand why. And then he 'honors' the art with terrible off-model Sayla cheesecake.
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Dec 21, 2013 23:33
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ImpAtom posted:"That Lt. Matilda, she is bangin' hot!" is the kind of translation that makes me just stare at the page for a minute in utter bewilderment. I dunno, if that line came out of Kai or perhaps a time-traveling Sleggar, I wouldn't even give it a second thought.
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Dec 21, 2013 23:42
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ImpAtom posted:"That Lt. Matilda, she is bangin' hot!" is the kind of translation that makes me just stare at the page for a minute in utter bewilderment. The whole translation is less than stellar, but it's serviceable.
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Dec 22, 2013 00:08
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Hey Gundam thread. What's the best way for me to watch Zeta Gundam? Is it this Daisuki guy on youtube?
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Dec 25, 2013 02:10
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Crummelhorn posted:Hey Gundam thread. What's the best way for me to watch Zeta Gundam? Is it this Daisuki guy on youtube? Either EG or OZC. Rule of thumb for Gundam is that if EG has taken care of it, you watch that version.
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Dec 25, 2013 02:17
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I just watched the Zeta dub where everybody sounds Canadian as hell. "Hey Bright, those Titans sure are some hosers over dere, eh?"
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Dec 25, 2013 02:52
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Gammatron 64 posted:I just watched the Zeta dub where everybody sounds Canadian as hell. "Hey Bright, those Titans sure are some hosers over dere, eh?" Hey now, I'm a fan of that dub. Kamille's english VA was great.
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Dec 25, 2013 03:16
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