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Mister Speaker posted:Are you using a brickwall limiter like the Waves L-series or Live's Limiter, at the end of your mastering chain? I saw your post in the other thread. I generally tend to avoid the stock Ableton Mastering Chains in favour of a bit of EQ (sometimes in M-S mode) followed by a nice bus compressor or two; one to gently catch the peaks and another to give the track some 'pump'. Sometimes I'll throw Live's stock Multiband Compressor (Standard Multiband Comp) on before the 'pump' compressor but since I don't really know much about that I won't gently caress with it - if I think the preset helps the sound, it stays, otherwise it goes. But yeah, a good brickwall limiter at the end is key - sometimes people push them pretty hard, too. I don't (if I need some gain into my L3 I'll use an instance of Utility before it, instead of turning down the threshold), but my poo poo sucks so... Well, the Ableton pre-built chain I've been using has an EQ (that adds slight boosts to the low and high end), a Glue Compressor, optional Overdrive, a Utility, then the Ableton Limiter last before a spectrum analyzer. I try to compose my tracks such that the master never jumps above -6db and then when I feel like I'm all done and mixed down, I throw on the chain before I export since it brings everything up the way a sound engineer would do for a real track, only without the experience or human ear or technique or subtle touch. The Multiband seems interesting but I still can't figure out how to use it well haha
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Dec 20, 2013 01:43
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If you are doing things like EQ on the master you should ask yourself why you aren't EQing tracks or busses instead. I don't mean never EQ the master, but you have all the source material available to you, in general you are better off EQing the actual tracks or busses that need the EQ. A good limiter on mild settings is a must to get volume, in some cases you may do a compressor followed by a limiter, though some mastering-oriented plugins do something like that for you already. Of course analyzer type stuff that has no effect on the sound is fine too. Be skeptical and cautious when putting anything else on there.
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Dec 20, 2013 03:42
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Here's the album I finished. http://drastictaiga.bandcamp.com/album/drastic I had posted some unfinished stuff in ML while ago for help/feedback but after a few months of wondering whether or not I should post the finished work here I decided I was pretty happy with it. I don't know what specific genre it is but it's definitely electronic. e. nm bandcamp version sounds way better for some reason. not trying to schmooze or anything nishi koichi fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Dec 21, 2013 |
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Dec 20, 2013 22:35
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Anal Surgery posted:Well, the Ableton pre-built chain I've been using has an EQ (that adds slight boosts to the low and high end), a Glue Compressor, optional Overdrive, a Utility, then the Ableton Limiter last before a spectrum analyzer. I try to compose my tracks such that the master never jumps above -6db and then when I feel like I'm all done and mixed down, I throw on the chain before I export since it brings everything up the way a sound engineer would do for a real track, only without the experience or human ear or technique or subtle touch. Why -6 instead of 0? Is there a direct advantage to that, or is it more of a margin-of-safety thing?
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Dec 20, 2013 22:49
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ejstheman posted:Why -6 instead of 0? Is there a direct advantage to that, or is it more of a margin-of-safety thing? Well, as I understand it, if you're mixing a track that you intend to send to a sound engineer for professional mastering, your peak amplitude should never exceed -6db in order to give them headroom to work with. Even though I never send things out for pro-mastering, I just keep that habit in case for some bizarre quirk of fate I ever decide to go that route. Probably unnecessary but harmless too, I hope! breaks posted:If you are doing things like EQ on the master you should ask yourself why you aren't EQing tracks or busses instead. I don't mean never EQ the master, but you have all the source material available to you, in general you are better off EQing the actual tracks or busses that need the EQ. A good limiter on mild settings is a must to get volume, in some cases you may do a compressor followed by a limiter, though some mastering-oriented plugins do something like that for you already. Of course analyzer type stuff that has no effect on the sound is fine too. Be skeptical and cautious when putting anything else on there. I get what you're saying. To be honest, I just saw that Ableton came with mastering chains and threw them on to see how they affected the sound. I try to be disciplined in my EQing at the track and bus level, but I just assumed the pre-built mastering chains were... "logical" methods of mastering. Mastering is an elusive art for me (and I'm sure others!) That Dang Dad fucked around with this message at 08:05 on Dec 21, 2013 |
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Dec 21, 2013 08:00
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Anal Surgery posted:Well, as I understand it, if you're mixing a track that you intend to send to a sound engineer for professional mastering, your peak amplitude should never exceed -6db in order to give them headroom to work with. Even though I never send things out for pro-mastering, I just keep that habit in case for some bizarre quirk of fate I ever decide to go that route. Probably unnecessary but harmless too, I hope! Speaking of mastering, I turned this up as far as I could turn it without clipping, and it's still pretty quiet. Is mastering the process of coaxing more subjective sense of volume out of it without causing it to clip? Is there more to it than that? (conceiving of mastering as a separate step that comes after mixing)
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Dec 21, 2013 09:20
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It's funny, the last handful of replies in this thread (including my own) are, I think, a neat little microcosm of how misunderstood mastering seems to be these days. As I understand it (please somebody correct me), traditionally mastering is simply the final process between mixed song and complete album. It could be as little as "mix sound good - loud and dynamic; approve and print." In the early days of printing to vinyl, all sorts of factors had to be considered to simply fit the song on the record, literally - too much bass or too much dynamic range meant grooves too wide or a skipping stylus. In fact some argue that this is still a major contributing factor to vinyl's perceived 'warmth' - the fact that you have to cut the bass by some ridiculous amount so the song fits on the record, and make up for it in a preamp stage. That's another debate though. A big part of it, too, is that with the advent of the Album, artists often recorded in different studios, had the tunes mixed by different engineers, etc. - while the recordings were (ideally) technically sound, they sometimes lacked cohesion - they didn't sound like an album. Mastering techniques were developed to 'glue' tracks together and really push that Album feeling - naturally this also applies to compilations, and from a more familiar domain (to this thread), DJ mix albums. As listening trends changed, so too did mixing and mastering engineers' styles - arguably, the 'loudness war' came from the industry's adaptive response to the rise of MP3s and earbud listeners. And different mastering engineers can help impart or enhance an aesthetic; such that a lot of electronic record labels often have 'go-to' mastering engineers. I too find I get good results mixing with an average level around -10dB and peaks around -6, but I don't really think of it as a guideline 'for mastering', I find it's simply easiest to find the right levels in mixing when everything sits around that volume. And as for EQing the master, I'm of the opinion that it can have a 'gluing' effect similar to compressing things together - in a mix that already sounds clear but a bit dull in the high end, for example, a gentle push above 5-10kHz on the master is both easier and more cohesive-sounding than finding the sweet-spot of each bus and pushing them accordingly, by minute fractions of a dB. Same goes for (again for example) muddiness around 110-200Hz - I've probably done some pulling on the elements in that range already, but a gentle notch of the master around 140Hz again, 'feels' more glued. These are always very subtle tweaks though; if I find myself boosting more than 1.5dB anywhere on the master I'll probably go back and fix the mix some other way.
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Dec 21, 2013 11:07
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Anal Surgery posted:Probably unnecessary but harmless too, I hope! Anal Surgery posted:I get what you're saying. To be honest, I just saw that Ableton came with mastering chains and threw them on to see how they affected the sound. It's not like baking, where you can just follow the numbers. It's more like raising a child in that you can read up about tips, but really you should ideally be tailoring what you do to the personality and circumstances of the kid, preferably with an idea of why you're doing what you're doing to maintain consistency.
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Dec 21, 2013 12:26
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Flipperwaldt posted:It will most definitely have a different distribution of dynamics and also require different compressor/limiter timing settings. Yeah I was afraid of that! I don't just plunk the chain in and call it a day, I do try to use my spectrum analyzers and my ears to tweaking and push and pull different things, but while it sounds better than before I dropped it in, it's still not an ideal sound. I've been looking for a "gold standard" mixing/mastering tutorial, but everyone does things differently it seems like and I guess by the nature of music, there wouldn't be a one size fits all tutorial anyway. At this point, I'm wondering if dropping a little cash for a pro course might not go a long way.
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Dec 22, 2013 02:52
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Made a few beats recently. https://soundcloud.com/goobers_yo/old-luv https://soundcloud.com/goobers_yo/talihoe https://soundcloud.com/goobers_yo/yarn e: this too https://soundcloud.com/goobers_yo/king-of-siam Thoogsby fucked around with this message at 05:35 on Dec 22, 2013 |
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Dec 22, 2013 04:11
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Anal Surgery posted:I'm wondering if dropping a little cash for a pro course might not go a long way. I also wonder this. I've followed loads of tutorials and I still don't understand how things work. I'm terrible at mixing and even worse at mastering and I would love to know if there's anything available at a reasonable price that will help me understand the basics. I'm not willing to spend money on something when I have no idea how helpful it'd be. e: When I say basics I mean basics. I don't even understand what you all mean when you talk about buses and chains.
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Dec 22, 2013 18:35
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Ditto.
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Dec 22, 2013 19:54
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Bus: basically, a group of channels. The idea being that you are want to treat all of those channels with the same effects, thus saving on CPU power/resources and automation insanity. Chain: literally, a daisy-chain of effects. A mastering "chain" is simply the effects you want in the order desired.
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Dec 23, 2013 00:42
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xpander posted:Bus: basically, a group of channels. The idea being that you are want to treat all of those channels with the same effects, thus saving on CPU power/resources and automation insanity. Sorry I should have been more clear, I know what a chain of effects is, but I don't know which order they should be in or what difference it makes if you have, say, EQ before compressor or reverb before EQ or whatever. I tried loads of different ways and couldn't tell what was doing what. I didn't realise that's what a bus was though, thanks for that. Turns out I do that already, heh.
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Dec 23, 2013 02:26
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stickyfngrdboy posted:Sorry I should have been more clear, I know what a chain of effects is, but I don't know which order they should be in or what difference it makes if you have, say, EQ before compressor or reverb before EQ or whatever. I tried loads of different ways and couldn't tell what was doing what. Don't put reverb on your signal chain that's what buses are for.
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Dec 23, 2013 02:31
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You can totally put reverb on your signal chain if you wanna compress after the verb for the sake of effect or something. But for cookie cutter mixdowns bus reverb is the way to go.
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Dec 23, 2013 03:32
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It helps when I'm just loving around with chain order to exaggerate an effect and move it around so i can hear how it works better
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Dec 23, 2013 04:03
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stickyfngrdboy posted:I don't know which order they should be in or what difference it makes if you have, say, EQ before compressor On the other hand, say you're using a compressor to tame the peaks of a recording, peaking stuff in an EQ after that could bring it back into the clipping zone. Although it can be useful to compensate a bit for the tendency of compressors to bring up mids more than the rest (whether this is due to something compressors do or due to the nature of typical source material, I don't know). Anyway, the EQ for managing the highs in our steel guitar would have completely different settings because most of the highs will have been pulled down already because they were mostly in the peaks and depending on the compressor timing settings, the accented part of the note might be shifted. Like if the release was short and some highs slipped through in the unaffected tail part of the notes, they would persist through an EQ cut better than if they were cut equally with those in the peaks before compression and get a small (relative) peak of highs later than the actual attack of the note. Depending on compressor threshold, you could also be giving more of an accented feel to some notes and not others, because the EQ effect will be different for notes that were caught by the compressor and quieter notes that weren't. Basically because compressors are non-linear in range and time, the order of effects matters with them more (and might be less obvious) than with other stuff. Which is right depends on what you want to do with the sound. Compare to having a reverb before or after an EQ: If, on a bus, you want the reverb tail dulled, you can pretty much EQ what goes in or what comes out and end up with with roughly the same thing. Flipperwaldt fucked around with this message at 10:03 on Dec 23, 2013 |
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Dec 23, 2013 09:59
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SHAOLIN FUCKFIEND posted:You can totally put reverb on your signal chain if you wanna compress after the verb for the sake of effect or something. But for cookie cutter mixdowns bus reverb is the way to go. Yeah, this. The traditional approach with time-based effects (like reverb, delay and to really push the definition, chorus etc.) is to patch the outboard effect into an empty channel on the console and send other channels through it. Mixing a live band, this allows you to simulate several instruments being in the same 'space' by sending them to the same reverb - hence 'Send & Return' tracks. But you'll see there's a 'Wet/Dry' knob in a lot of effects these days - even compressors, WTF? - which is in a lot of applications, easier, and can be used for effect - like SHAOLIN FUCKFIEND says, compressing after a reverb which I'm sure is part of a lot of huge Electro-House drops (think LRAD by Knife Party). It's definitely a good thing to keep the traditional approach in mind, though, if you want to create a realistic soundstage.
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Dec 23, 2013 13:11
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Mister Speaker posted:But you'll see there's a 'Wet/Dry' knob in a lot of effects these days - even compressors, WTF?
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Dec 23, 2013 14:20
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Flipperwaldt posted:an excellent and very helpful post SHAOLIN FUCKFIEND posted:You can totally put reverb on your signal chain if you wanna compress after the verb for the sake of effect or something. But for cookie cutter mixdowns bus reverb is the way to go. Mister Speaker posted:Yeah, this. bad posts ahead!!! posted:It helps when I'm just loving around with chain order to exaggerate an effect and move it around so i can hear how it works better All of these are good posts and helpful to me, thanks all I appreciate it. I'm just going to do what BPA does and experiment. However, if anyone has any decent tutorials or manuals or anything that they can recommend (even if it costs a few quid) that would be great too. For reverb, I use either the one in Massive (because it cost me a lot of money and I want to use everything in it if possible, I'm not sure I should do this) or Ambience, which I paid a few quid for after trying the demo, because it seems to be great, but I just click PRESETS and pick one because idk how to work it. I told you, I'm clueless.
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Dec 23, 2013 19:26
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Yeah I know what back-bus compression is, I guess I'm that much of a purist that it just seems wrong to me to put a Wet/Dry knob on anything that isn't a time-based effect.
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Dec 23, 2013 21:24
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I got some AKG K240 headphones for xmas. They're not DJ headphones, strictly speaking, but they might do the trick. I've just barely played with them so far. I don't produce music, they're just for live two-turntable DJ mixing. They don't seem neutral, or transparent, or whatever the term is. So I don't think they're exactly studio monitors either. Should I return them for the $75 and spend the money on other DJ headphones? I'd have no idea what to buy if I did--I just want rugged ones that will stand up to heavy use and loud volume, and simply work well for cueing tracks.
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Dec 26, 2013 00:14
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Cooked up this 174 d'n'b bad boy after a 3 month hiatus because my old PC broke down (  ) and would love some feedback:https://soundcloud.com/rpblc/beattone-dnb-bomba-master/s-OXjtL It was composed in sub par conditions, as I only had "in the box" tools from ableton and a pair of KEF hi-fi speakers. Mix and master are a bit over the place sometimes, but nothing major. The sample voice is going to be replaced by a friend of mine singing. Starts neurofunk and goes more tech-ish/critical records later on. I'm debating the idea of splitting it into a "original mix" and a VIP. I wanted to give the drums a "metal" vibe, so I put a crash every 1/4 
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Dec 26, 2013 20:29
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Just got an MPD and I've been chopping up Yes and other old prog records. So much fun https://soundcloud.com/goobers_yo/ss-display-bin e: dead link Thoogsby fucked around with this message at 06:31 on Dec 27, 2013 |
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Dec 27, 2013 05:27
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I did a new remix for a contest! https://soundcloud.com/mathbonus/the-chain-gang-of-1974
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Dec 29, 2013 10:10
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I have a new 4 track EP for free right here: http://neonshudder.bandcamp.com/album/cataphractals If you dig weird cyberpunk inspired electronic stuff this might be your thing. Maybe give it a listen. If you've ever given my other stuff a listen it's like a mix of my first 2 EPs.
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Jan 1, 2014 18:06
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I want to learn how to make Jungle! This is my first stab at it. Jungle is sweet. https://soundcloud.com/spooky-griff/plenty-spooky-take-1-wip
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Jan 2, 2014 18:16
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stickyfngrdboy posted:I also wonder this. I've followed loads of tutorials and I still don't understand how things work. I'm terrible at mixing and even worse at mastering and I would love to know if there's anything available at a reasonable price that will help me understand the basics. I'm not willing to spend money on something when I have no idea how helpful it'd be. To me mixing is something you can learn and practice, but mastering is something else, some people just have that extra ability, I just think it pays to concentrate on mixing skills initially.
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Jan 4, 2014 00:25
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HEY I made a cover version of this track by Lazlow P. (You're a goon, right?) https://soundcloud.com/colugo/nincompoopery-abounds-cover-of MOAR posted:To me mixing is something you can learn and practice, but mastering is something else, some people just have that extra ability
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Jan 4, 2014 03:43
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Dicky B posted:I'll bet a professional audio engineer who has dedicated years of time and effort to honing their craft would be pretty miffed to hear that it all comes down to some innate "gift". Every audio engineer I've ever talked to has called mastering "black magic" or "wizardry". I don't know that they would. It's like having perfect pitch: just because your hardware has the capability to distinguish the exact note doesn't mean you won't have to spend a bunch of time making your software interpret that properly.
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Jan 4, 2014 04:28
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Dessert Rose posted:Every audio engineer I've ever talked to has called mastering "black magic" or "wizardry". I don't know that they would.
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Jan 4, 2014 18:15
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'Black magic' is true, but not in an actual mystical sense. Everyone is really interested in a specific thing, right? Whether you're an audio engineer or musician, I'm sure there is a particular 'thing', whether it be making the perfect kick drum, or mastering, that they just find particularly appealing. If that interest is in mastering, then of course it will be much easier for you learn those skills. That's not to say you can't learn mastering, but it'll be more difficult than someone who has a very keen interest in it specifically. If you're an audio engineer who has some basic knowledge of mastering, but are really really good at something else, then it can easily seem like the flipside is magic. If someone were to ask you how you became so good at 'that certain thing' the answer is invariably "I just learned and played around with it till I got better." Honestly, if you go into a subject with an open mind, a willingness to just do the work and learn, it's very hard to NOT gain skills. Digi_Kraken fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Jan 4, 2014 |
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Jan 4, 2014 19:52
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GForce Oddity is an amazing softsynth and I recommend it to basically everyone. https://soundcloud.com/fastland/pinlighter Used it a lot here, especially the duophonic play with ring modulation which gives an enormously interesting type of distortion if you overdrive it afterwards.
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Jan 5, 2014 15:13
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I've been having a lot of fun with swinging the poo poo out of my drums lately https://soundcloud.com/goobers_yo/sixty-plus
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Jan 13, 2014 00:50
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Maybe this question would fare better in the Hip-Hop thread, but I'm looking for good marching percussion. Inspiring loops would be great to have, but also anything I can throw into Battery 3 - I've kind of outgrown the standard 'marching percussion' kit in B3 and I'd like to play around with loops to add to some of the Breaks and Trap-ish poo poo that I'm working on. Any ideas?
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Jan 14, 2014 23:50
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Ah, the anus-clenching first post in a massive thread. Hi! In my spare time over the last few years I've been trying to teach myself how to make stuff in FL Studio. There's still a ton of stuff I know jack about but I think it's about time I try and get some feedback and suggestions from the thread. I started out doing covers of my favourite video games almost exclusively, but I finally got a midi controller last month so I've been able to noodle more easily, so I think more original stuff will follow. Anyway here's a bunch of links, please feel free to offer critiques/feedback. https://soundcloud.com/richard-goodwins/original-keygen https://soundcloud.com/richard-goodwins/original-thing-8-work-in (this is a work in progress but by far the most progressed WIP I've got going right now) https://soundcloud.com/richard-goodwins/cover-seth-peelle-sunslammer https://soundcloud.com/richard-goodwins/nes-gradius-intro https://soundcloud.com/richard-goodwins/snes-secret-of-mana-medley I think my biggest strengths so far are that I seem to have a good ear for what instruments/voices go well together, and I can jam along pretty okay to a partial track in a kind-of-but-not-really Ronald Jenkees sorta way. Weaknesses are mostly technical, I think. I can't master for poo poo and I don't really know how to clean up a track, balance EQ or generally get the most out of the voices I use. e: Also I seem to really really love doing chiptune/sid sounding poo poo and I rarely break away from that. Not sure if that's necessarily a bad thing, but I do like doing orchestral-sounding pieces too, like the secret of mana medley above and https://soundcloud.com/richard-goodwins/snes-secret-of-mana-introlude Pixotic fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Jan 17, 2014 |
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Jan 17, 2014 02:22
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flipped a few Tycho samples for hip-hopping purposes https://soundcloud.com/goobers_yo/gutter https://soundcloud.com/goobers_yo/bearcat
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Jan 17, 2014 02:30
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Got a question about the mixing and mastering stage of music production. Figured it might be an amateur question, but with regards to signal chains; If I have an instrument that has a delay effect on it, but also reverb, would I; A.) run the dry signal to both a delay and a reverb return Or B.) run the delay as an insert and output that to a reverb, outputting the wet delay to the reverb Or C.) run the dry through two separate returns, and also send the delay return to the reverb for further processing? I know a lot of this depends on what you want to achieve really, but as a general rule would reverb on a wet signal with delay be Ill advised and simply cause noise (unless intended as an effect?). As I said, this is concerning mixing and bussing, not sound design. I know both delay and reverb provide spatial cues so it seems pertinent not to accidentally ruin the stereo image. Thoughts? Anyways, have a new track that's mostly finished aside from mixing/mastering: http://soundcloud.com/poizenjam/overload/s-V7jh7
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Jan 19, 2014 00:30
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Any of you guys have links to some good articles or videos on how to produce dreamy/chillwave/glofi music? I've been really digging stuff like Toro y Moi and Neon Indian, I'd love to see some more in depth advice beyond "use iZotope Vinyl" on how those producers get their creamy and lofi sounds. Hopefully this didn't get asked too recently, there's a lot of pages to dig through and kinda tricky to ctrl+f it since people use like a million terms for these kinds of things.
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Jan 19, 2014 00:58
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