|
Crosscontaminant posted:Mega Lati@s are straight-up worse than using the Soul Dew - they're 80/80/110/180/110/140 and 80/80/110/110/180/140 respectively according to a now-deleted tweet by Parque Compi. Apparently from the same source in other deleted tweets which nobody linked, Mega Latios is Dragon/Psychic with Adaptability and Mega Latias is Dragon/Fairy with Multiscale. Actually given those stats Mega Latios hits harder with a STAB move than Soul Dew Latios would. Blissey with max Special Bulk is used as the measuring stick here. 252 SpA Adaptability Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 212-250 (29.6 - 35%) (set base SpA to 180) 252 SpA Soul Dew Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 186-220 (26 - 30.8%) 252+ SpA Adaptability Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 232-274 (32.4 - 38.3%) 252+ SpA Soul Dew Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 204-241 (28.5 - 33.7%) The difference would be SpDef and non-STAB moves. Zoness fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Dec 20, 2013 |
#
?
Dec 20, 2013 20:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 13:33 |
|
|
So if Mega Lati@s aren't as powerful as their Soul Dew counterparts, maybe this is just Nintendo deciding Soul Dew's too strong and replacing it with something shiny and new?
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2013 20:24
|
|
|
I thought Soul Dew was already banned in official Nintendo events?
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2013 20:34
|
|
|
Soul Dew is even banned in the Battle Maison and Institute ingame.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2013 20:37
|
|
|
To expand on why Challenge Cup is the best, here is a replay that ends with someone forfeiting to a Pidgey. http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/challengecup-70995424
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2013 20:47
|
|
|
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/endless-battle-clause.3495355/#post-5075072 Using Leppa Berry, Recycle, and Heal Pulse on the same set is banned now. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2013 20:58
|
|
|
LAY-ZX posted:http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/endless-battle-clause.3495355/#post-5075072 Boooo. Smogon continues to be completely arbitrary with their rules. No Funbroing and evasion, but Paraflinching and Parafusion are A-OK! Where that many people really running Funbros? Edit: It still doesn't cover everything. If you goad someone into Leech Seeding your Blissey (especially if they have leftovers). You can still start an infinite battle if their max health is low enough. Or trap in something with Water Absorb or Jolt Absorb while running HP water/Electric buddychrist10 fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Dec 20, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2013 21:00
|
|
|
dude789 posted:Boooo. Smogon continues to be completely arbitrary with their rules. No Funbroing and evasion, but Paraflinching and Parafusion are A-OK! Where that many people really running Funbros? There's nothing arbitrary about it? Paraflinch and Parafusion work toward winning. 'Funbro' literally forces someone to either spend hours putting up with your nonsense or take a loss for not wanting to put up with it. Timerstalling (waiting until 120 seconds pass per turn once you have no conceivable way to win) is already a bannable offense and this is pretty much more egregiously malicious than it with the same intent. Blissey can't trap things. The set specifically requires you to use block to stop a switch and have a way of healing yourself and your opponent while also having recycle. Zoness fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Dec 20, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2013 21:07
|
|
|
dude789 posted:Boooo. Smogon continues to be completely arbitrary with their rules. No Funbroing and evasion, but Paraflinching and Parafusion are A-OK! Where that many people really running Funbros? Evasion has no counter except praying for a hit, and a Funbro done correctly has no counter at all. By contrast, paraflinching is solved by sending out an electric type, sending out something with a Lum Berry, or sending out something faster than the paraflincher. They aren't arbitrary restrictions and people should stop pretending they are. Just because I'm upset about the ban doesn't mean I think it shouldn't have happened.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2013 21:07
|
|
|
Yeah, I don't think being forced into a stalemate sounds like a lot of fun. It's not like forcing a draw in a Swiss tournament to try to stay ahead in points. But evasion can be countered with Haze.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2013 21:10
|
|
|
dude789 posted:To expand on why Challenge Cup is the best, here is a replay that ends with someone forfeiting to a Pidgey. Hahaha as soon as I saw Pidgey use Double Team I said "Oh no" out loud Challenge Cup (and Random Cup) seem fun, I might do it at some point soon. I still don't really get competitive battling well enough to do actual OU matches or anything like that but those seem like something I could have fun with
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2013 21:14
|
|
|
LAY-ZX posted:Evasion has no counter except praying for a hit I'm a complete scrub at this game but what about Swift/Aerial Ace/other no-miss moves or Foresight or No Guard? Why don't these work?
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2013 21:26
|
|
|
LAY-ZX posted:http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/endless-battle-clause.3495355/#post-5075072 Goddammit Smogon, why ruin the Funbro?  EightFlyingCars posted:I'm a complete scrub at this game but what about Swift/Aerial Ace/other no-miss moves or Foresight or No Guard? Why don't these work? None of those options are really that common, is the thing.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2013 21:33
|
|
|
EightFlyingCars posted:I'm a complete scrub at this game but what about Swift/Aerial Ace/other no-miss moves or Foresight or No Guard? Why don't these work? Those are all really weak moves with no real purpose in the competitive scene.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2013 21:33
|
|
|
Other than Aura Sphere, those aren't very common because they're not useful for anything else. Even Aura Sphere isn't available to a lot of things. No Guard is the more common answer to it, but even that is a rare ability.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2013 21:33
|
|
|
LAY-ZX posted:Evasion has no counter except praying for a hit, and a Funbro done correctly has no counter at all. By contrast, paraflinching is solved by sending out an electric type, sending out something with a Lum Berry, or sending out something faster than the paraflincher. They aren't arbitrary restrictions and people should stop pretending they are. There are counters to evasion. I think we discussed this a bit earlier in the topic but aside from Haze, there's the never miss attacks, pokemon with No Guard or Unaware and a few others. The sixth gen also brings a couple new counters to Evasion in the changes to Roar/Whirlwind and perfect accuracy toxic from poison types along with Defog which more people are running now. There may be more counters to paraflinch, but it takes much less time to set up which I think evens them out by a whole lot. If the Togekiss or Jirachi sets up the paralysis the other pokemon immediately has a .3 chance to act. Whereas even when Evasion is maxed it's a .33 chance to hit and that takes at least 3 turns to max out. Also, while Funbro is annoying, there are a ton of counters to it, especially from the current Metagame. Taunt, Knock Off, Toxic, ,U-Turn/Voltswitch (I think those ignore Block correct me if I'm wrong), any offensive buffing move or just smashing it with a sufficiently powerful attack all beat it. Chances are you'll run into it once, and then you'll know better and not let it happen again. Challenge Cup is awesome part 2: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/challengecup-71042111 where else can you 6-0 someone with a Garbodor with nothing but Rocks for support. buddychrist10 fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Dec 21, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2013 21:37
|
|
|
dude789 posted:
The point isn't so much that counters exist as if it blocks in something that doesn't counter it (most walls) you're in for the long ride. If it just KO'd a single pokemon it wouldn't be a problem, which is why the set is only banned if it also includes Heal Pulse.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2013 21:41
|
|
|
Zoness posted:The point isn't so much that counters exist as if it blocks in something that doesn't counter it (most walls) you're in for the long ride. If it just KO'd a single pokemon it wouldn't be a problem, which is why the set is only banned if it also includes Heal Pulse. It doesn't even guarantee a KO against one Pokemon if left uncountered (like Mega-Gengar did), it guarantees a win against the whole team.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2013 22:00
|
|
|
Gotta side with the Simulator folks on this one. I'm pretty sour on some of Smogon's restrictions but running a set that makes both combatants literally immortal doesn't even sound like fun trolling. I say this both as a man who regularly has to fight his friend's Contrary Shuckle, and who spent 10 minutes stalling with a Gliscor until the opponent's Carbink struggled itself to death. (The secret is Baton Pass--even if it fails, it's still 40 turns worth of valid moves.  )
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2013 22:50
|
|
|
dude789 posted:There are counters to evasion. I think we discussed this a bit earlier in the topic but aside from Haze, there's the never miss attacks, pokemon with No Guard or Unaware and a few others. The sixth gen also brings a couple new counters to Evasion in the changes to Roar/Whirlwind and perfect accuracy toxic from poison types along with Defog which more people are running now. There may be more counters to paraflinch, but it takes much less time to set up which I think evens them out by a whole lot. If the Togekiss or Jirachi sets up the paralysis the other pokemon immediately has a .3 chance to act. Whereas even when Evasion is maxed it's a .33 chance to hit and that takes at least 3 turns to max out. Evasion itself isn't the problem, evasion tanks are. Something that not only can take a hit (or a lot of hits), but also straight out ignore most attacks and shrug off most if not all always hit moves and it gets very annoying very fast if not ready for it, and then probably with most teams running evasion plus anti evasion and it just stops being fun. You have a point on that there are more ways to counter evasion now, maybe it will get unbanned in the future if gets less and less viable. Also doesn't blissey get minimize? Rangpur posted:I say this both as a man who regularly has to fight his friend's Contrary Shuckle, and who spent 10 minutes stalling with a Gliscor until the opponent's Carbink struggled itself to death. (The secret is Baton Pass--even if it fails, it's still 40 turns worth of valid moves. Maybe I still have that log. qnqnx fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Dec 20, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2013 23:37
|
|
|
Rangpur posted:I say this both as a man who regularly has to fight his friend's Contrary Shuckle, and who spent 10 minutes stalling with a Gliscor.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2013 23:40
|
|
|
dude789 posted:Boooo. Smogon continues to be completely arbitrary with their rules. No Funbroing and evasion, but Paraflinching and Parafusion are A-OK! Where that many people really running Funbros? It started off as a small Showderp joke pokemon that was run on a few Champ teams but then, as so many things, Redditors that have begun following showderp started spamming it and using it in their own teams. Eventually one of them faced a Big Time Smogoner and that plus a pretty infamous replay from Showderp made their way to Smogon's forums and here we are. Rip Funbro, 2 beautiful for this world.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2013 23:43
|
|
|
Pissed off a smogon nerd? Well now that shits banned!
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2013 23:45
|
|
|
Stalgren posted:Pissed off a smogon nerd? Well now that shits banned! Having to forfeit or waiting for the other to forfeit or make an error would piss off anyone.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2013 23:48
|
|
|
EightFlyingCars posted:I'm a complete scrub at this game but what about Swift/Aerial Ace/other no-miss moves or Foresight or No Guard? Why don't these work? The problem is that Swift/Aerial Ace/etc don't hit hard enough to kill tanky or scary things that use evasion, Foresight means a setup turn that tanky/scary things can use to avoid your efforts, and No Guard's only on like three Pokemon.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2013 23:55
|
|
|
Stalgren posted:Pissed off a smogon nerd? Well now that shits banned! I realize that some portion of this thread hates on smogon for whatever reason but this statement is really ignorant in the light of the previous discussion. The point of a ranked ladder is to play and determine a winner, not all of us have hours to play pokemon simulator every day. If I'm being forced to play a match for literally hours or lose regardless of my team composition I'm going to be pretty upset. Stall is a strategy that exists, but the goal of stall is still to win by KO'ing all the pokemon on your opponent's team. This strategy tries to win by making your opponent not want to play any more. Do it to your friends/random people on wifi on your own time. That said, here's a smogon thread with an OP worth mocking and an instant shutdown by an administrator. Another funny thread, if only for one guy's posts quote:Alright, you feel offended so apparently you use this non-strategy yourself, but let me rephrase like a good boy: Yes, some smogon posters literally think that anything with a percent chance of strategy is 'cheap' or 'removes skill' or whatever but this is in no way an overriding factor in the community. vv I just assumed that was an account name. Main Paineframe posted:The problem is that Swift/Aerial Ace/etc don't hit hard enough to kill tanky or scary things that use evasion, Foresight means a setup turn that tanky/scary things can use to avoid your efforts, and No Guard's only on like three Pokemon. Foresight actually sees usage on Hitmontop, not for hitting things but for making sure it can spin against ghosts. Zoness fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Dec 21, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2013 23:56
|
|
|
Zoness posted:Yes, some smogon posters literally think that anything with a percent chance of strategy is cheap or whatever but this is in no way an overriding factor of the community. I dunno, this guy has beaten number 2 on the ladder, I think he knows what he's talking about.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2013 23:59
|
|
|
Does Cloud Nine prevent weather from coming into play or does it just cancel weather when the pokemon switches in?
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2013 00:13
|
|
|
I don't even get what the guy is complaining about in that second thread? In his replay he plays like total poo poo but still 6-0s the Prankster team and is never in any danger of losing a single Pokémon.Internet Kraken posted:Does Cloud Nine prevent weather from coming into play or does it just cancel weather when the pokemon switches in? Technically neither. It prevents the EFFECTS of weather while the Cloud Nine Pokémon is in play, but it doesn't stop the weather or prevent the effects of weather inducing moves or abilities. The weather is still there in the background and when the Cloud Nine Pokémon faints or switches out its effects will continue.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2013 00:15
|
|
|
Internet Kraken posted:Does Cloud Nine prevent weather from coming into play or does it just cancel weather when the pokemon switches in? My understanding is that Cloud Nine and Air Lock merely negate any effects of weather and do not prevent weather from setting or existing on the field. e;fb
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2013 00:15
|
|
|
It doesn't stop weather, but it prevents it from having any effect. While the Cloud Nine user is on the field, it will continue hailing, but nothing will take hail damage, Blizzard will have normal accuracy, Ice Body won't activate, etc. If the Cloud Nine user switches out before the weather ends, the effects will resume.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2013 00:17
|
|
|
So by just having a cloud nine pokemon in play, I can disrupt teams reliant on weather? Great. ...well it would be great if any cool pokemon had that ability. I can't believe I'm going to be using lickilicky
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2013 00:21
|
|
|
Txn posted:This is why I have a bunch of pokes with Taunt and someone with Gastro Acid.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2013 00:23
|
|
|
Internet Kraken posted:So by just having a cloud nine pokemon in play, I can disrupt teams reliant on weather? Great. Be sure to give it Explosion. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2013 00:23
|
|
|
dude789 posted:Where that many people really running Funbros? It had a huge explosion in popularity after someone posted a 2000 something turn game on reddit pretty recently. It was a thing you could do for years before that and no one cared because few people knew about and fewer bothered with it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2013 00:24
|
|
|
LAY-ZX posted:Be sure to give it Explosion. EDIT: Altaria gets Cloud Nine too, I believe. And Moonblast. And Cotton Guard--it actually doesn't make a half bad counter to Tyranitar now that I think about it. Rangpur fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Dec 21, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2013 00:24
|
|
|
Internet Kraken posted:So by just having a cloud nine pokemon in play, I can disrupt teams reliant on weather? Great. Golduck saw some use in VGC 12. Rangpur posted:And a Normal Gem! Lickilicky tends to want more than just a normal gem since he has enough bulk to throw out multiple attacks. Altaria is pretty awkward with a rock slide weakness and whatnot.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2013 00:29
|
|
|
True, but I thought special defensive Tyranitars were all the rage these days. Physical attacks get less scary when you can more than double your defense with one move (and no longer take damage from Sandstorm). How common is Taunt and Dragon Tail in Tyranitar sets these days?
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2013 00:36
|
|
|
Rangpur posted:True, but I thought special defensive Tyranitars were all the rage these days. Physical attacks get less scary when you can more than double your defense with one move (and no longer take damage from Sandstorm). How common is Taunt and Dragon Tail in Tyranitar sets these days? As of the end of November, on Showdown Gen 6 OU - Dragon Tail 3.187% Gen 6 Doubles - Dragon Tail 2.466%, Taunt 1.840% Pokebank OU - Dragon Tail 1.817% Pokebank Doubles - Dragon Tail 1.501%, Taunt 3.261% VGC 2014 - Taunt 3.709% Red Metal fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Dec 21, 2013 |
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2013 00:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 13:33 |
|
|
My first rated battle was a close call, but I managed to win. You really can't overstate the importance of Protect in doubles, especially if you're inexperienced like me. It is entirely the reason I won. Mega Kangaskhan is nasty. ZC7C-WWWW-WWW3-R2TJ I'm definitely keeping Venusaur and Florges. Ninetales will be replaced if I find that I'm constantly Mega-Evolving Venusaur right away (I mainly use Ninetales for Synthesis and so I can choose between Chlorophyl and Thick Fat, but a lot of teams open with something that has Flamethrower, so I end up evolving on the first turn.) Electivire was originally bred for singles and I'm just using him for a powerful electric move and the elemental punches. The last two slots on the team are totally blank right now. I'm open to suggestions on how to fill out/improve this team, because I'm still just starting out. I'm enjoying doubles a lot.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2013 00:53
|
|