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Cat Hatter posted:This really makes it sound like you have a neutral disconnected somewhere. Electricity is getting to the outlet (and the lights plugged into it) but can't complete the circuit all the way back. Alright, got it fixed now. I picked up a receptacle tester and it was telling me "Hot/Ground Reversed". So I popped it off and immediately noticed that the white wire was severed where it was going in to the outlet. I guess the handyman that installed it was a bit too aggressive when he stripped it. So I restripped a bit and reseated it and everything is grand now. Thanks fellas.
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Dec 18, 2013 22:42
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Has anyone ever tried a Zero Surge unit for surge protection? I'm considering one of these for my PC to use with an ungrounded but GFCI protected outlet. Other option, to not have to run a new circuit, may be to ground the outlet to my cold water pipe. Both are considerably less invasive than having to run cable between rooms and knock holes in my ceiling.
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Dec 18, 2013 22:52
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WeaselWeaz posted:Other option, to not have to run a new circuit, may be to ground the outlet to my cold water pipe. That's still allowed for metal pipes, however the ground wire must be clamped to your water pipe within 6 feet of your water service entrance. The reason for that is that newer non-conducting alternatives exist for carrying water now like CPVC. If that stuff is used for a patch upstream of your ground clamp, then the grounding path would be broken. It's assumed that all pipe within 6 feet of the entrance can be inspected for an unbroken metal grounding path. If you want to get really technical, then all grounds in a service must be joined together. If your circuit panel isn't grounded to the water pipe but your new outlet wire is, then technically that's illegal, but I doubt you would ever find an inspector who would give you a problem from making that outlet safe. You could just run that wire directly back to the panel busbar and it's legal, period. Another option is to try those grounding tests I wrote in my 3 prong upgrade post linked in the OP. It's not likely the box is grounded, but you might get lucky... kid sinister fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Dec 18, 2013 |
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Dec 18, 2013 23:35
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Yep, I already know the boxes aren't grounded. I just really don't want to rewire if there's any way to avoid it.
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Dec 19, 2013 00:13
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kid sinister posted:If you want to get really technical, then all grounds in a service must be joined together. If your circuit panel isn't grounded to the water pipe but your new outlet wire is, then technically that's illegal, but I doubt you would ever find an inspector who would give you a problem from making that outlet safe. You could just run that wire directly back to the panel busbar and it's legal, period. That's not some meaningless technicality as you seem to making it out to be. Bonded grounds are quite important, and you can end up in some really funky and dangerous situations if this is screwed up. Remember, grounds aren't there to make circuits work. They are there to save your rear end if something goes wrong.
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Dec 19, 2013 00:24
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If you're that concerned about grounding and are concerned about grounding. Run a new damned circuit. It'll be a days work tops, that includes patching the drywall.
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Dec 19, 2013 00:38
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Ultimate Shrek Fan posted:If you're that concerned about grounding and are concerned about grounding. Run a new damned circuit. It'll be a days work tops, that includes patching the drywall. That depends on how much drywall work. The first coat of drywall mud takes a day to dry by itself. You can probably get the second and third coat with all the sanding done the next day though.
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Dec 19, 2013 00:58
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Motronic posted:That's not some meaningless technicality as you seem to making it out to be. I completely agree, but I'll take an outlet grounded to a water pipe over an ungrounded outlet any day of the week. I'll just be much more aware of what's attached to it.
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Dec 19, 2013 00:59
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kid sinister posted:That depends on how much drywall work. The first coat of drywall mud takes a day to dry by itself. You can probably get the second and third coat with all the sanding done the next day though. I've started using the setting-type 20 minute drywall compound for patches, not the premix buckets that have to dry. You can go over your first coat in an hour or less with this stuff, and be sanding the final coat in 30 minutes or so if you run it dry enough. If you run it too wet it will have to dry out after curing, pretty much defeating the purpose. Just be aware that once it starts to set it's off to the races. It cures rather than dries, so it all happens astonishingly fast once the process starts. I never mix more than a single tray at a time. e: it's also cheaper than mud by the bucket and you don't have to worry about it drying out on you if you don't use the whole sack. Motronic fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Dec 19, 2013 |
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Dec 19, 2013 01:14
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I picked up an old Craftsman table saw from a guy the other night, and I'm working on getting it back into safe working condition. The previous owner took the 1hp motor off at some point in the past and replaced it with a 2hp motor. I'm not terribly concerned about that overall, but it raises some other questions about the electrical wiring. The plug wire he made for it is in really terrible shape and really long, and it's currently switched with a standard light switch. I'd like to re-make the wiring and replace the switch with one of those ones that you can hit with your knee or hip. I'm looking for help making sure I'm reading the motor specs right and don't burn down my house. The motor is a Westinghouse 2hp, 1725 rpm 115/230v. Amps are marked 26/13, which means I need a 30 amp circuit to run this at 110v, right? That means 10 gauge wiring for the plug, and finding a switch rated for 30 amps. The wiring inside the motor housing was connected with wire nuts, is that safe/correct or should I be using a different method? Anything else I need to be concerned with? I guess I could run it at 240 instead, but I don't have easy access to a 240 line as my furnace/etc are in a different part of the house.
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Dec 19, 2013 01:23
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you ate my cat posted:The motor is a Westinghouse 2hp, 1725 rpm 115/230v. Amps are marked 26/13, which means I need a 30 amp circuit to run this at 110v, right? That means 10 gauge wiring for the plug, and finding a switch rated for 30 amps. The wiring inside the motor housing was connected with wire nuts, is that safe/correct or should I be using a different method? Anything else I need to be concerned with? If you don't have a dedicated 120 circuit rated for 30 amps in your garage, or wherever you're sticking the saw, I'd suggest going the 240 route, you'll save yourself a ton running 14/3 rather than 10/2. As for the motor housing, you'll need to show us a picture of it.
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Dec 19, 2013 02:27
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Motronic posted:Just be aware that once it starts to set it's off to the races. It cures rather than dries, so it all happens astonishingly fast once the process starts. I never mix more than a single tray at a time. Exactly. That's why I wouldn't recommend it for a newbie mudder: they work too slow. As for the bucket stuff drying out, I just scoop some pieces into my pan and mix some water into it. That reminds me of getting my grandparents' house ready to sell after they passed. I was doing drywall repair in one room and removing the wallpaper from hell with a power steamer in the other. Guess what happened? It made the air so humid that the mud wouldn't dry! kid sinister fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Dec 19, 2013 |
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Dec 19, 2013 04:02
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kid sinister posted:removing the wallpaper There is seriously not a worse job than this. And I've done septic work.
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Dec 19, 2013 04:06
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Agreed, I'd rather remove wallpaper with a sledgehammer, do all the wiring/insulation/plumbing/vapor barrier while I have it opened up, fix anything the idiot PO left behind, then put 150 bucks in new sheetrock up than gently caress around with trying to get wallpaper off. ESPECIALLY if it's water resistant/vinyl coated and/or is put over old, cracked, loose plaster and lath that wants to fall off the lath. gently caress all that noise. I guess that explains why I bought a bulldozer property instead of a traditional fixer-upper/"put a coat of paint on it and some new fixtures" type place 
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Dec 19, 2013 04:11
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kastein posted:I guess that explains why I bought a bulldozer property I always called them "blower uppers".
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Dec 19, 2013 04:16
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Mine was a real honest blower upper when I got it  ... as in the chucklefuck PO who fancied himself a handyman put a non rated gas heater IN THE LIVING ROOM (fire codes? what are those?) and ran like 20 feet of iron pipe to it, supported by chain and random nails hung from the joists in the basement. ... when the building inspector showed up, his response was best qualified as "hahahahah what the gently caress is wrong with you, take that poo poo out or I am condemning this property" which honestly he should have done anyways. So they tore it out. And didn't block off the end of the iron pipe. I'm really glad I traced the entire natural gas piping system before having the service turned on, because between that and the handful of 100+ year old gas line drops for old gaslights buried in the walls with only the silly little quarter turn valves keeping the gas in the lines, it was only a matter of time till I had a gas leak and blew the place up. I removed everything except for about 20 feet of pipe downstream of the meter, then measured, bought all new pipe cut to the appropriate lengths to add drops where the stove/water heater/future furnace will be, and threw it all together with proper torque (gudentight w/ a pipe wrench) and rectorseal #5. I can't stand idiots who work on poo poo without knowing what they are doing. Actually that brings up a very thread-relevant point. If you're gonna ground outlets to a pipe even though you technically haven't been allowed to do that since what, the 50s? 60s? 70s? please do it to a cold water pipe ONLY. Hot water pipes may not be fully bonded to the cold water system since there's a water heater in between, and the last thing you want to use as your ground electrode is a gas line, since if there is an accident that cracks one of the cast iron fittings on a typical natural gas system, any ground fault you have is going to conveniently produce a nice arc... right at the source of the gas leak.
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Dec 19, 2013 04:28
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kastein posted:the last thing you want to use as your ground electrode is a gas line, since if there is an accident that cracks one of the cast iron fittings on a typical natural gas system, any ground fault you have is going to conveniently produce a nice arc... right at the source of the gas leak. And this is why it's illegal.
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Dec 19, 2013 05:06
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kastein posted:(proper torque, idiots who work on poo poo without knowing what they are doing) Funny you mention that - I got called in on one the other day that could be "Don't Burn Your House Down: Proper Torque" Resident complained about lights dimming when the furnace kicks on, light bulbs going bad in short order, etc. Well, let's take a look, maybe there's something wrong, maybe it's a power company problem. I can see voltage drop being a possibility, as it's a 200A overhead service that's fed from a transformer a few hundred yards away. I think that transformer has at least three 200A services and a 100-125A service tapped to it, with a lot of run and taps on the triplex. Just about everybody has seen the grid loading to where one neighbor's central air compressor kicks in on a cycle and drops voltage to other houses enough to momentarily dim the lights, so I figure it's more likely a case of somebody running a high wattage heat strip on a heat pump / geothermal, or the like, as we're well into heating season by now. Quick visual outside doesn't reveal any problems - compression taps at the service drop look good, and go into a weatherhead down through conduit to the meter pan, so I move on in to the panel to check voltage at the main disconnect. Other than being a mess, the panel looks good, and voltages seem fine hot to hot, and each hot to neutral. But something doesn't look right. The set screw on the neutral lug, which I was poking at with the voltmeter probe to get a neutral reference, is sticking way out, and by grabbing the 2/0 stranded aluminum service entrance cable, I can move the wire around, up, and down. The neutral return path on the service was basically whatever portion of conductor was in contact with the lug, so long as the stiff wire was mashed up against it well. No oxide inhibitor - aluminum cable, aluminum lug and main bus service panel in an unconditioned attached garage, and nobody ever bothered to tighten the neutral wire down. I'd guess I put a full 10-12 turns on the set screw before the torque wrench clicked. The main breaker lugs were loose too, but not to the point where you could yank the wire out of them with minimal effort. If you're going to dick around inside a panel board, don't burn your house down. There are torque specs printed on the inside of the cover for a damned good reason - follow them. If you can't be bothered to get out the torque wrench, especially for aluminum conductors, at least make sure you're not potentially putting stray current out across the ground path.
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Dec 20, 2013 05:36
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Entangled posted:Funny you mention that - I got called in on one the other day that could be "Don't Burn Your House Down: Proper Torque" I probably get a trouble call from loose panel lugs every time I'm on call duty. If they're lucky, it's a hot leg and one of our standard meter cans (we give them out for members on new construction), and we can fix it for them because we stock parts, if the lug has also gotten hot or corroded. If they're unlucky, it's a neutral with electronics burnt up in the house, or its a combination panel that we have no parts to repair.
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Dec 21, 2013 17:32
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Loose lugs are some of the worst causes of weird poo poo happening. And so easy to prevent just by doing a final re-torquing of everything in the panel before energizing it like should be done anyhow.
grover fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Dec 22, 2013 |
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Dec 21, 2013 18:58
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grover posted:Loose lugs are some of the worst causes of weird poo poo happening. And so easy to prevent just be doing a final re-torquing of everything in the panel before energizing it like should be done anyhow. Been there, done that. It's like having a lovely power supply in a computer. They just give you all sorts of weird errors that don't make sense and are super hard to pin down.
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Dec 22, 2013 00:11
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Question about LED dimmers and old wiring. I'm looking to use LED bulbs in my basement and the lights are connected to a 2-wire switch. I want to put in a LED-compatible dimmer instead. Some reviews I've seen reference a ground connection being required, and I don't see the site and I'm pretty sure the box isn't grounded. I haven't bought a dimmer yet, but is this going to be a problem?
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Dec 22, 2013 06:44
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What are some reasons why a lightbulb might start flickering after 2.5 years of good use? It's in a casing surrounded by an exhaust fan in a bathroom, and it's connected to a timer switch. The flickering has been happening on and off for two weeks or so. We took the bulb out and removed some of the dust around the socket this afternoon, then tried the bulb in another fixture, and it seemed to work OK (but then again, it could just be the "on and off" aspect of it). Now that we've put the bulb back in its original casing, it sometimes takes a while to turn on, occasionally emitting a dull purple glow before it comes on fully. I'll try replacing the bulb completely tomorrow to see if that fixes the problem, but want to know if this could warrant a more serious look i.e. if any danger is posed. I feel like whoever our landlord calls in to look at it will turn the switch on, be unable or unwilling to duplicate the problem, and leave it alone. This post may be too vague for any real diagnosis, but just thought I would put it out there and see if I can learn anything else. Thanks!
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Dec 22, 2013 06:47
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Is it a CFL? Sounds like it's simply dying. If the replacement works fine, that's a good indication the first bulb is destined for the garbage can.WeaselWeaz posted:Question about LED dimmers and old wiring. I'm looking to use LED bulbs in my basement and the lights are connected to a 2-wire switch. I want to put in a LED-compatible dimmer instead. Some reviews I've seen reference a ground connection being required, and I don't see the site and I'm pretty sure the box isn't grounded. I haven't bought a dimmer yet, but is this going to be a problem? grover fucked around with this message at 15:05 on Dec 22, 2013 |
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Dec 22, 2013 15:02
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WeaselWeaz posted:Question about LED dimmers and old wiring. I'm looking to use LED bulbs in my basement and the lights are connected to a 2-wire switch. I want to put in a LED-compatible dimmer instead. Some reviews I've seen reference a ground connection being required, and I don't see the site and I'm pretty sure the box isn't grounded. I haven't bought a dimmer yet, but is this going to be a problem? There are LED- and CFL-compatible dimmers that only need two wires (no neutral or ground, just the hot and switch leg). I think they're more expensive than normal LED dimmers, though, maybe $40? If that's more than the cost of you rewiring the circuit to the point of nearest neutral, then that's your solution.
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Dec 22, 2013 15:16
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:There are LED- and CFL-compatible dimmers that only need two wires (no neutral or ground, just the hot and switch leg). I think they're more expensive than normal LED dimmers, though, maybe $40? If that's more than the cost of you rewiring the circuit to the point of nearest neutral, then that's your solution. That's what I'm looking for. Anyone able to recommend one or am I just going into Home Depot and looking at every switch? It seems like LED/CFL switches are a crap shoot and half of them cause bulbs to buzz.
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Dec 22, 2013 15:38
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WeaselWeaz posted:That's what I'm looking for. Anyone able to recommend one or am I just going into Home Depot and looking at every switch? It seems like LED/CFL switches are a crap shoot and half of them cause bulbs to buzz. I'm using a few of the lutron maestro C-L 2 wire dimmers for LEDs and they work great. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lutron-Maestro-150-Watt-Single-Pole-3-Way-or-Multi-Location-Digital-CFL-LED-Dimmer-White-MACL-153MR-WH/203489683 No buzz, no weirdness at the low end of the brightness scale. Controlling some cree 60W replacements and some lithonia LED cans
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Dec 22, 2013 16:59
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grover posted:Is it a CFL? Sounds like it's simply dying. If the replacement works fine, that's a good indication the first bulb is destined for the garbage can. Bingo. Fluorescent tubes of any type need a ballast to limit the current reaching the bulb. CFLs have their ballasts built into their bases. When ballasts start going bad, you can start seeing the 60 Hz from the AC powering them if your eyes are sensitive enough to see a flicker 60 times a second. As for that "dull purple glow", technically all fluorescents are black lights, which only put out UV light. The ones you see putting out visible light have a coating on the inside of the glass called a phosphor. When the UV light hits that phosphor, it glows and puts out visible light in whatever temperature that bulb was designed for, warm white, cool white, daylight, etc. Still, plain UV bulbs cost more even though they're simpler to make without that phosphor coating, which is weird. How old was that bulb before you started using it 2.5 years ago? Every CFL made in the past 8+ years has been the instant-on type. Otherwise, fluorescents have a 2-3 second delay between getting turned on and putting out light. The instant-on types get around that delay by hitting the tube with a short surge of electricity to get it lit to 80-85% brightness as soon as possible. As the bulb stays on, it eventually reaches full brightness. Still, I suppose the starter buried in the base of that CFL could be going bad too and causing a delay. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Dec 22, 2013 |
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Dec 22, 2013 19:48
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So hey, here I find myself in this thread asking an almost identical question almost an exact year later. Last year, I discovered a wall outlet on the other side of the room that was getting warm to the touch (nothing plugged into it) when the electric fireplace was turned on high heat. Replaced it with another outlet and everything was fine afterwards. Now a year later (and running the heater on high for a long duration again), I'm finding that same outlet I replaced getting warm again. I should be specific and state that this only occurs after a few minutes of putting the fireplace heater on high. Outlet on the wall opposite the heater becomes warm, but not hot. Hours into operation, the temperature of the outlet remains the same, warm but nowhere close to too hot to touch. If the heater is placed on low, the outlet does not get warm at all. Since I replaced this outlet once already (with a screw-in version, NOT backstab), I contacted two local electricians for a possible estimate. Both of them seemed nonplussed about it. One said that he'd be happy to come take a look and would probably just end up replacing the outlet, and the other felt that without discoloration or a scent present that some warmth was not an issue. I'm inclined to replace the outlet a second time, but I wanted to see what others thought before I go about this. Is there anything else that I should be checking since this is now a recurring problem, or is this just an artifact of a device that pulls a great deal of electricity?
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Dec 22, 2013 21:28
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Is it in close enough proximity that the heater is warming it up, by blowing hot air on it? I can't picture your room layout.
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Dec 22, 2013 21:51
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What's the draw on the fireplace? It probably shouldn't be going through an outlet. It might even need bigger wire to begin with. But if the wire is the appropriate gauge for the length/draw I'd suggest a simple solution that itsn't really something you'll find in a code book: Take the outlet out of the circuit and put it in through a tap. As in, take both sides of that run that is currently coing through the outlet and wire nut them directly together along with a short piece of romex. Attach this short piece of romex to the outlet so the current is no longer going "through" the outlet to the fireplace. This is not the right way to do it. If I were you I would run a dedicated circuit the the fireplace and stop screwing around. But I would do as I suggested until I had the time to do it right.
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Dec 22, 2013 21:56
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Guy Axlerod posted:Is it in close enough proximity that the heater is warming it up, by blowing hot air on it? I can't picture your room layout.  Motronic posted:What's the draw on the fireplace? It probably shouldn't be going through an outlet. It might even need bigger wire to begin with. I'd love to see about running a dedicated circuit for the fireplace/heater, but I rent this home, so doing too much out of the box would be a hard sell. The co-owner of the home definitely wants me to feel safe here though, so if there's something that can be addressed, he'll do it.
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Dec 22, 2013 22:39
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Hazed_blue posted:but I rent this home Well......I mean....what do you expect? Have them run a dedicated circuit and/or keep up on you renter's insurance. I'm not sure what people expect when they post questions like this and don't own the home/apartment they are in. If it's not right then call you landlord. That's the only reasonable solution available and one of the top two benefits of renting rather than owning.
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Dec 22, 2013 23:55
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I don't understand why only that receptacle is getting warm, unless there is a tap off of it, feeding another load. Unless the room is wired weirdly, at least a couple of the other receptacles are seeing the same load.
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Dec 23, 2013 01:34
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Motronic posted:I'm not sure what people expect when they post questions like this and don't own the home/apartment they are in. If it's not right then call you landlord.
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Dec 23, 2013 01:46
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angryrobots posted:I don't understand why only that receptacle is getting warm, unless there is a tap off of it, feeding another load. Like the outlet the fireplace is plugged into? Yes, that's exactly what's happening here.
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Dec 23, 2013 02:43
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No, like one or more of the other receptacles should also be getting warm if this issue is because of load, depending on which direction the circuit was run around the room. Anyway, this residential electrical device shouldn't be causing a receptacle in series to get hot like that, just on load. The receptacle is rated for that load, even if the wire was too small.
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Dec 23, 2013 03:34
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kid sinister posted:Bingo. Fluorescent tubes of any type need a ballast to limit the current reaching the bulb. CFLs have their ballasts built into their bases. When ballasts start going bad, you can start seeing the 60 Hz from the AC powering them if your eyes are sensitive enough to see a flicker 60 times a second. As for that "dull purple glow", technically all fluorescents are black lights, which only put out UV light. The ones you see putting out visible light have a coating on the inside of the glass called a phosphor. When the UV light hits that phosphor, it glows and puts out visible light in whatever temperature that bulb was designed for, warm white, cool white, daylight, etc. Still, plain UV bulbs cost more even though they're simpler to make without that phosphor coating, which is weird. Thanks to you and grover; it's not acted up today, so we've left it, but we'll look at the bulb first if anything else happens.
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Dec 23, 2013 07:22
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Motronic posted:Like the outlet the fireplace is plugged into? grover fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Dec 23, 2013 |
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Dec 23, 2013 17:00
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grover posted:The two most likely explanations are a poor connection somewhere in that receptacle which is causing resistive heating, or a harmless coincidence based on radiative heating.
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Dec 23, 2013 19:23
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