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Alteisen posted:You've never played Halo I assume. The best Halo is worse than the worst R&C. I saw this as a person who owns all of the R&C series and stopped with Halo after Halo 3 because holy hell Halo 3 was bad. I honestly don't feel Nintendo milks their characters anywhere near the amount they could. Despite what many think, Nintendo shows a lot of restraint in this Web 2.0 world we live in. Look at how Sega treats Sonic if you want a taste of what Nintendo could do (and prolly should for the marketing appeal) virtualboyCOLOR fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Dec 23, 2013 |
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Dec 23, 2013 00:10
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Honestly, they've released 4 mainline 3D Marios and 2 NSMB games on consoles over the last 11 years. Is that really too much? It's a release every other year on average. The entire Call of Duty franchise has been released in that same time period, from 2003-2013. That's 10 games right there.
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Dec 23, 2013 00:14
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Yeah, I'm sorry. Unless you're counting everything with Mario in it as 'milking', no franchise has been milked as hard in recent memory as Assassin's Creed. Yearly releases plus portable games, all focused around largely similar gameplay with minor mechanical changes. (ACIV is probably the biggest change since AC to 2 and even that is just fleshing out the minigame from ACIII. It's really good but still.) That's discounting all the tie-in browser games/F2P money sinks/iOS games as well which I feel weird counting because they're just add-ons for the main game.
ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Dec 23, 2013 |
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Dec 23, 2013 00:15
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Yeah. If you want to see how a franchise can be milked, look no further than Activision (Call of Duty, Guitar Hero). Mario is basically Nintendo's Mascot so of course they're gonna use him in a lot of flagship titles. When there is a Mario Runner, Jumper, Facebook farm game, F2P game, XP boost/DLC content fast/junk food chain promotions, yearly releases of the same game we can talk. Even the NSMB has only been released once per console. Also Super Mario 3D world is literally the best Mario game to date and GOTY 2013 virtualboyCOLOR fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Dec 23, 2013 |
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Dec 23, 2013 00:19
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It might be a more sensible criticism to say that Nintendo keeps applying the same stock of characters to different gameplay concepts, when they could have separate franchises and settings for each distinct style of game.
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Dec 23, 2013 00:25
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Supercar Gautier posted:It might be a more sensible criticism to say that Nintendo keeps applying the same stock of characters to different gameplay concepts, when they could have separate franchises and settings for each distinct style of game. Yeah, but that's a criticism that can be applied to many, many, many things. Until people stop being more willing to buy a name they recognize instead of a name they don't, it isn't going to change, regardless of if you're talking about Mario or Mickey Mouse. This is doubly true with games where the difference between success and failure can be razor thin and you need every advantage you get to drive early sales of a game. Wonderful 101 probably would have sold better (although probably not gangbusters considering the Wii U) if they'd made the Nintendo All-Stars game they originally considered instead of a new IP. People are just more likely to pay attention to something they recognize. Even when selling new IPs, you do it by connecting them to old IPs if you can. ("From the makers of Halo!" "From the mind that brought you Bioshock!" "From the visionary creator of Psychonauts!" "From the people who brought you Knights of the Old Republic!") Familiarity is important to selling any product, even if you end up technically exaggerating it. ("From the creative vision of the third guy on the left in this picture of the guys who made Deus Ex! He got us a soda once!") When you have a lot of strong IPs like Nintendo, it makes more sense to milk them than to establish new IPs because you reinforce the strength of your brand and increase the number of sales. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Dec 23, 2013 |
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Dec 23, 2013 00:27
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Alteisen posted:I wouldn't called Pilotwings or Earthbound franchises. I love Pilotwings.  The 3DS one is pretty good, too. It isn't as good as 64, but it's fun.
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Dec 23, 2013 00:33
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Supercar Gautier posted:It might be a more sensible criticism to say that Nintendo keeps applying the same stock of characters to different gameplay concepts, when they could have separate franchises and settings for each distinct style of game. So here's the thing: things sell better if they have a familiar face. AC4 should be its own pirate thing but its not because its too costly to risk it not doing well plus requires more marketing dollars for less of a guarantee. Don't like that? Take it up with society as a whole. Nintendo is honestly doing itself a disservice by not milking poo poo more. There should be Nintendo iOS games, cartoons, online f2p games, tons of horrible poo poo we hate but people eat up that link directly to your Wii U console and push that poo poo hard.
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Dec 23, 2013 00:34
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:Mario seems to be milked because Nintendo has so many franchises that involve Mario, even if they are completely different games. Mario Party and Mario Kart are completely different games to New Super Mario Bros and 3D World but for people who want to complain about Mario, it's the same thing since his name is on it. Fun fact with the franchises: you remember donkey kong and donkey kong jr from the 80s? That donkey kong is now cranky kong and jr is donkey kong of today!
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Dec 23, 2013 01:00
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:Also Super Mario 3D world is literally the best Mario game to date and GOTY 2013 It is legitimately a really awesome game and is more like Mario 64 (and by extension Mario Galaxy, as I understand it) than it is like 3D Land, which is more like NSMB-U. Sorry to echo into the chamber, but I feel like it warrants repeating. I'm glad to see some of the numbers improved, but there is a long way to go. I believe you could describe the future of the system as "Cautious Optimism".
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Dec 23, 2013 01:56
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I wouldn't mind Nintendo releasing Mario games so often if they made the effort to distinguish them. Consider how much changed between Super Mario Bros, 2, 3, and Super Mario World, and how little changed over the same number of games in the New SMB series. I'd rather have a flawed game that tried something new like Super Mario Sunshine than another level pack for a game I wasn't very fond of in the first place. I'd even prefer an entirely new platformer that completely redefines the genre, like Yoshi's Island.
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Dec 23, 2013 02:08
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I'd take another Supet Mario 3D World on the Wii U. The game is awesome...
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Dec 23, 2013 02:31
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That loving Sned posted:I wouldn't mind Nintendo releasing Mario games so often if they made the effort to distinguish them. Consider how much changed between Super Mario Bros, 2, 3, and Super Mario World, and how little changed over the same number of games in the New SMB series. To be honest I think you're looking more at the art style than you are at the actual mechanical changes, at least if you're discussing the original games. SMB1-4 were pretty clearly building up upon each other. (With SMB2 being basically a level pack for SMB1.) They were excellent games but defined as much by new power ups and things like "a world map" than large mechanical changes or reinventing the game entirely. Not to devalue SMB3's world map because that was a big inclusion but still. I think SMB feels a bit different to English-speaking gamers because we got a very different SMB2 and so it feels more like Nintendo was being weird and experimental when honestly they were playing it fairly safe. SMW is a wonderfully well-made game but it's got a lot in common with SMB3 in a lot of ways too and while Yoshi is a cool new thing which eventually spun off a lot, it basically amounted to another power up gimmick, just one that held on better than ones that have come around since. NSMB is clearly 'safer' than the classic Mario series when it comes to level design but they certainly do add new things. NSMBW added co-op/competitive multiplayer (which was in fact a pretty big deal), SMB2 billed itself as a score attack game and redesigned itself around the idea of collecting coins instead of just finishing levels. NSMBWU is the one I'd say is the absolute 'safest' in that it doesn't do anything different aside from some Wii U pad features and a new powerup or two. It's just that, aside from the multiplayer, none of these things 'stand out' as much as "hey, this is the first Mario with a world map" or "Hey, this is the first 16 bit Mario!" There are exceptions but they're either fully-fledged spinoffs (Yoshi's Island, Luigi's Mansion, Wario Land) or they're generally looked back at with frustration. (Mario Sunshine.) The actual mainline Mario franchise's absolute biggest shakeup was probably Mario 64 and while that certainly ended up doing amazing, it's played second fiddle to the 2D Mario games ever since despite both Galaxy games (and now 3D World) being generally highly praised. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Dec 23, 2013 |
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Dec 23, 2013 02:37
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Why release this five days prior to Christmas? It's something that needed to happen, but I'm not sure why they couldn't have released this a month ago prior to Black Friday.quote:I wouldn't mind Nintendo releasing Mario games so often if they made the effort to distinguish them. Consider how much changed between Super Mario Bros, 2, 3, and Super Mario World, and how little changed over the same number of games in the New SMB series. They're certainly competent platformers, but they're also overly safe platformers and that's almost certainly a result of being afraid to muck with one of their hottest series.
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Dec 23, 2013 02:39
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Rorus Raz posted:Why release this five days prior to Christmas? It's something that needed to happen, but I'm not sure why they couldn't have released this a month ago prior to Black Friday. Supposedly this weekend is when everyone does their christmas shopping anyway.
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Dec 23, 2013 02:50
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I thought the sales for each NSMB game have been getting worse an worse, right ? It does no longer feel 'new' to me, but that's okay. I hope we get more DLC for the Wii U version like the Luigi stages. Maybe a Wario and Waluigi pack, I can only hope...
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Dec 23, 2013 02:57
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Astro7x posted:I thought the sales for each NSMB game have been getting worse an worse, right ? It does no longer feel 'new' to me, but that's okay. I hope we get more DLC for the Wii U version like the Luigi stages. Maybe a Wario and Waluigi pack, I can only hope... It's a bit more complex than that. NSMB2 inarguably did worse than NSMB1 and NMSB2 but it still is demonstrating a long tail and sold around 2 million copies in 2013 alone which is exceptionally good for a game a year old which had no real price cuts. This is the same thing that made NMSB and NMSBW sell well. They had strong starts but they kept selling year after year. NSMB is still selling around ~500,000 copies a year despite the fact it was released in 2006. What makes the NSMB franchise so important to Nintendo is that not only do they sell, but they continue to sell much more readily than a lot of other franchises do. NSMBWU is the exception to this and likely that can be pointed to more because of the Wii U's failure than because of people being tired of the franchise. If people were buying a Wii U, you could almost be certain that NSMBWU would be selling much much better. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Dec 23, 2013 |
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Dec 23, 2013 03:04
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Astro7x posted:I thought the sales for each NSMB game have been getting worse an worse, right ? It does no longer feel 'new' to me, but that's okay. I hope we get more DLC for the Wii U version like the Luigi stages. Maybe a Wario and Waluigi pack, I can only hope... That's because they haven't been out for long (or are on the Wii U, natch). As has been discussed in here time and time again, NSMB sales do not drop off like other games. Copies just keep selling and selling. After the holiday season, I'd be surprised if NSMB2's LTD worldwide was under 9 million.
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Dec 23, 2013 03:05
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Its me, I'm the consumer who buys every NSMB and 100% them because they are all legitimately fun. Literally Nintendo should solve their 3rd issues but just letting 3rd party studios use Nintendo's assets. No one buys Nintendo consoles for 3rd party games so make all 3rd party games into 1st party games. Shove out an iOS companion app, unlock exclusive DLC by playing the F2P facebook game (be sure to share "Nintendo Coins" with all your friends), tweet out your high score in Super Mario 3D World: Boo Ops 2 presented by Comcast NBCUniversal and watch all the peeps flock to the Wii U.
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Dec 23, 2013 05:54
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I buy Mario games because most of the time you know it's going to be a quality game. But every once in awhile you get something like Yoshi Topsy Turvy. But I probably would have bought Wonderful 101 if it was Nintendo Allstars...
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Dec 23, 2013 06:01
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Wonderful 101 is a Platinum game and if you don't buy those games based on that alone you failed at playing good games.
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Dec 23, 2013 06:09
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:Wonderful 101 is a Platinum game and if you don't buy those games based on that alone you failed at playing good games. Eh, I love em but I think it's harsh to hate anyone who doesn't like Platinum games. They're niche "learning the controls and how not to get kicked in the balls is part of the game" games, and some people don't like that.
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Dec 23, 2013 07:22
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They're also Japanese as all get out and I can understand why that can be an accessibility problem too.
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Dec 23, 2013 09:33
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:Literally Nintendo should solve their 3rd issues but just letting 3rd party studios use Nintendo's assets. They already do. Capcom, Hudson Soft and Sega have all created games using Nintendo properties.
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Dec 23, 2013 09:44
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deadwing posted:After the holiday season, I'd be surprised if NSMB2's LTD worldwide was under 9 million. From 6.4m in April to 9m? Really? I know they keep selling, but that really would be bananas. RE: the Mario milking chat: 6 of the top 13 selling 3DS games are Mario games, but they're all different branches: Kart, 3D Land, 'New', Party, Luigi's Mansion and Dream Team. Papering every other 3rd party game with Mario assets sounds like a really bad idea when there's already that kind of market saturation.
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Dec 23, 2013 13:36
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Nintendo could improve their third party sales by building an achievement system that unlocked a mural of Nintendo characters or something.
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Dec 23, 2013 13:49
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Edmund Honda posted:From 6.4m in April to 9m? Really? I know they keep selling, but that really would be bananas. Pick anybody popular enough to get into Smash Bros It doesn't have to be all Mario all the time, if they can find a property that Kirby or Zelda or Donkey Kong or Star Fox or F-Zero or Samus or Wario can fit into, then consider making a game for them. Same as Star Fox Adventures or Kirby's Epic Yarn. Nintendo's got a shitload of properties that they're just sitting on. Use them. They're already not selling, so worst case scenario is that the game sells just a little bit better than if they had left it alone.
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Dec 23, 2013 16:20
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Spiffo posted:Nintendo's got a shitload of properties that they're just sitting on. Use them. They're already not selling, so worst case scenario is that the game sells just a little bit better than if they had left it alone. Every Nintendo hardware should feature: - 3D Mario platformer - 2D Mario platformer - Kart game - Fighting game - Casual sports games - Mario RPG - Fire Emblem - Pokemon - Zelda - Metroid - F-Zero - Pilotwings - Star Fox - Pikmin - Endless Ocean - Monolith RPG - Virtual Board Game - Donkey Kong - Animal Crossing - Kirby - Nintendo spinoff game: Luigi, Wario, Yoshi, Peach, etc. - Nintendo throwback game: Kid Icarus, Punch Out!, Hogan's Alley - New IP that nobody buys like Chibi Robo, Starfy, Sin and Punishment
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Dec 23, 2013 16:30
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:Every Nintendo hardware should feature: Not sure if I should say "this" or "this, but unironically" but yeah making more games using their recognizable properties would be badass. And another thing, stuff like Animal Crossing and Endless Ocean were themselves "New IPs that nobody buys" but then people bought them so now they're on the list proper. And of course Wario's pretty much doing his own thing as well.
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Dec 23, 2013 16:36
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Spiffo posted:Not sure if I should say "this" or "this, but unironically" but yeah making more games using their recognizable properties would be badass. The Wii U has so far covered: - 3D Mario platformer - 2D Mario platformer - Pikmin - Zelda (HD update) - Nintendo spinoff game: Game and Wario - Nintendo spinoff/new IP: Nintendoland - New IP nobody buys: Wonderful 101 - New IP nobody buys: Lego City Undercover - Casual Sports game: Mario and Sonic at Sochi And will be covering: - Kart game - Fighting game - Zelda (Not HD update) - Zelda (Warriors) - Monolith RPG (X) - Virtual Board Game (Wii Party U) - Donkey Kong - Nintendo spinoff game: Yoshi Yarn So it feels like people are just mad they are not seeing: - F-Zero - Metroid - Star Fox - Fire Emblem - Pokemon - Animal Crossing - Kirby - Endless Ocean - More Mario spinoffs - More new Nintendo IPs that nobody will buy
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Dec 23, 2013 16:45
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I do think it's weird that there's not an Animal Crossing planned for Wii U yet. The franchise started on console.
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Dec 23, 2013 16:48
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Quest For Glory II posted:I do think it's weird that there's not an Animal Crossing planned for Wii U yet. The franchise started on console. I'm sure there is one planned but I bet they take a massive amount of time to put together and they're not ready to announce anything yet. Game seems like a no brainer for the WiiU.
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Dec 23, 2013 16:49
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Louisgod posted:I'm sure there is one planned but I bet they take a massive amount of time to put together and they're not ready to announce anything yet. Game seems like a no brainer for the WiiU. You could probably do something cool combining 3DS and Wii U when it comes to Animal Crossing. Maybe where the 3DS game is where you goto your summer cottage while the Wii U game is living in a big, sprawling city.
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Dec 23, 2013 16:52
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Louisgod posted:I'm sure there is one planned but I bet they take a massive amount of time to put together and they're not ready to announce anything yet. Game seems like a no brainer for the WiiU.
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Dec 23, 2013 17:00
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Why would they put out a new Animal Crossing right now when New Leaf JUST hit? Most people are not going to play multiple versions of AC concurrently (where it'd start feeling less like Animal Crossing and more like some kind of kiddy themed work camp) and the already existing New Leaf will basically have pre-cannibalized Wii U's sales. They need to wait until people start putting down the 3DS one in a couple years to announce the next one.
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Dec 23, 2013 17:06
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That didn't stop them from the idiotic decision to release Smash Bros on two systems at once.
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Dec 23, 2013 17:08
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Quest For Glory II posted:Honestly, they've released 4 mainline 3D Marios and 5 NSMB games on consoles over the last 11 years. Is that really too much? It's a release every other year on average. Fixed that for you. It doesn't help that they are all pretty much indistinguishable from each other.
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Dec 23, 2013 17:20
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There's only been two NSMB titles on consoles, NSMB Wii and NSMB U.
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Dec 23, 2013 17:21
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I think he's including the handheld ones, but that still doesn't explain where he got 5 from. Am I forgetting a hidden 3rd handheld NSMB? Is he including NSLuigiU? Because that's more DLC than a new game...
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Dec 23, 2013 17:25
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It is DLC. They only released a standalone version for people who don't like buying digitally, but I have no idea if the box copy sold all that much. I'm going to assume no since it's a Wii U retail box. At any rate there's only been one NSMB per system and they got it out of the way early, which I can appreciate. Now if they could keep it up and wait until the next system to put out the next one, I would REALLY appreciate that.
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Dec 23, 2013 17:27
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