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fong posted:All of the stronghold quests involve making decisions that can lead to your stronghold essentially becoming useless. The Paladin and Cleric ones are the most brutal in this regard. gently caress that, safe options for the first two tests then sacrifice 2 apprentices on the third for a Ring of Wizardry. By far the best reward you can get out of that terrible stronghold.
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Dec 22, 2013 23:34
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Is it possible to do a solo run as a cleric/thief in BG2? It seems like the thief HLAs could make up for the equipment restriction and the cleric buffs could make up for lacking good fighting skills.
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Dec 23, 2013 00:15
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Azuth0667 posted:Is it possible to do a solo run as a cleric/thief in BG2? It seems like the thief HLAs could make up for the equipment restriction and the cleric buffs could make up for lacking good fighting skills. I played a cleric thief a lot and they are pretty cool. If a bit boring in a party. Solo should be doable but can't imagine the game without an arcane caster. Fighter/Mage/thief is the solo char for me.
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Dec 23, 2013 00:21
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Azuth0667 posted:Is it possible to do a solo run as a cleric/thief in BG2? It seems like the thief HLAs could make up for the equipment restriction and the cleric buffs could make up for lacking good fighting skills.
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Dec 23, 2013 00:24
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MegaGatts posted:Playing through BG2 EE really makes me wish they would have added a monk, barbarian, and separate sorcerer strong hold. It's such a huge missed opportunity with the source code. I seem to recall Monks were originally going to get some kind of monastery but they ran out of time. Instead they get the castle like fighers and barbarians. The barbarian stronghold should have been a little village in the wilderness that you get to become chieftain of, and you can have your clan do raids and poo poo. That would have been cool.
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Dec 23, 2013 01:12
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Sounds like I need to pick a new class for soloing then, I tried a monk before and it was alright but got tedious.
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Dec 23, 2013 01:34
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If you're just looking for pure fun just go F/M/T and pull off the experience cap in BG1.
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Dec 23, 2013 02:13
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steakmancer posted:Just use Keldorn. Are you replying to me? I'm new to the game so I don't have context to know. My question was more about how much to micro manage my character throughout the game or to just go with the flow. Thanks!
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Dec 23, 2013 02:21
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TraderStav posted:Are you replying to me? I'm new to the game so I don't have context to know. My question was more about how much to micro manage my character throughout the game or to just go with the flow. He's also pretty good with weapons, although you may want to do something about his dexterity at some point in the game.
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Dec 23, 2013 02:24
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Rascyc posted:Keldorn's an NPC in BG2 that people recommend to beginners because he is an Inquisitor which packs two abilities that can make life a lot easier for beginners who don't know the spell system. Running into invisible enemies, then just pop truesight. Running into enemies hasted and buffed up the gills, pop his dispel magic which is an extra powerful version of the normal spell. Ah, okay. I'm playing BG1EE so was confused since I didn't see him in the templates.
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Dec 23, 2013 02:31
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Excelzior posted:gently caress that, safe options for the first two tests then sacrifice 2 apprentices on the third for a Ring of Wizardry. By far the best reward you can get out of that terrible stronghold.
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Dec 23, 2013 02:34
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TraderStav posted:Ah, okay. I'm playing BG1EE so was confused since I didn't see him in the templates. Honestly though just play whatever catches your interest, and then report back if you are genuinely not having fun if you are dying a lot.
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Dec 23, 2013 02:39
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Factor_VIII posted:You can also get a copy of that ring through Jaheira's Harper questline. One of the mages you fight in the Harper building drops it. This is true, but : 1- The quest trigger takes forever to fire if you're also romancing Jaheira; 2- There's no reason not to get two of them if your main is a mage as you can stack them
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Dec 23, 2013 02:41
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Excelzior posted:This is true, but : PS: Has the bug where the Staff of the Magi didn't provide Protection From Evil when wielded been fixed in BG2EE?
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Dec 23, 2013 02:58
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Factor_VIII posted:Or if you have 2 mages and want one for each (especially since there is another rings of wizardry out there). Just saying that you don't need to sacrifice your apprentices to get a copy of that ring. Same thing sort of applies for the Staff of Power. It's good but not nearly a good as the Staff of the Magi, which makes it rather redundant. Personally I like to let all the apprentices survive. Feels rather bad to kill them. It definitely provides Prot from evil now.
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Dec 23, 2013 03:35
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I'm going to play the Enhanced Edition's for the first time, I completed the original Baldur's Gate and played the second but never finished it. I'm considering going Fighter/Cleric. The best level to multiclass would be at 9, right? Also, do cleric's still have that stupid blunt weapons only like in Icewind Dale? I hate that. Especially since the rationale was blunt weapons don't draw blood or something, which I'm sure if someone got their skull or torso caved in with a warhammer would be completely untrue. Edit: I'll be playing both, and urgh, blunt weapons only? I might not multiclass at all then, swords are my favourite. TehGherkin fucked around with this message at 05:30 on Dec 23, 2013 |
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Dec 23, 2013 04:57
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TehGherkin posted:I'm going to play the Enhanced Edition's for the first time, I completed the original Baldur's Gate and played the second but never finished it. I'm considering going Fighter/Cleric. The best level to multiclass would be at 9, right? Are you playing both BG1 & 2, or just the first game? I don't recommend dual-classing (which is what you're describing) if you're only playing BG1, you won't reach Fighter 7/Cleric 8 until the end of the game while spending much of BG1 with your Figher levels inactive. If you're only doing BG1 I recommend multiclassing. If you're importing to BG2 then level 7 or 9 are your best options, yeah! You might also consider Ranger/Cleric, you're limited to 2 weapon pips (same as multiclassed Fighters) but due to a bug you get access to both Cleric and Druid spells. Druids get some excellent spells Clerics wouldn't normally have access to like Ironskins and BEES. Yes, you're limited to blunt weapons. It's dumb.
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Dec 23, 2013 05:16
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TehGherkin posted:Also, do cleric's still have that stupid blunt weapons only like in Icewind Dale? I hate that. Especially since the rationale was blunt weapons don't draw blood or something, which I'm sure if someone got their skull or torso caved in with a warhammer would be completely untrue.
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Dec 23, 2013 05:30
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Yeah, the stun on hit from Stupefier is awesome and it's available very early on. From a thematic or roleplaying perspective the limitation doesn't really make sense, but there are plenty of really excellent blunt weapons in both games. Maces, flails, warhammers, and slings would be my top picks, and all can be used with a shield.
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Dec 23, 2013 05:43
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I always thought the blunt weapons only for clerics was some oldschool lore flavor thing that stuck. The idea of a cleric running around with a sword just seems wrong to me at this point.
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Dec 23, 2013 06:30
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oswald ownenstein posted:I always thought the blunt weapons only for clerics was some oldschool lore flavor thing that stuck. The idea of a cleric running around with a sword just seems wrong to me at this point. Yeah, we wouldn't want holy warriors fighting in melee, wielding swords and casting cleric spe.. wait a minute
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Dec 23, 2013 06:31
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Excelzior posted:Yeah, we wouldn't want holy warriors fighting in melee, wielding swords and casting cleric spe.. Yeah but clerics aren't martial classes. They're temple nerds and blunt weapons don't take any skill to use or something. I dunno, I like my clerics in plate and without any bladed weapons.
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Dec 23, 2013 06:40
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Clerics traditionally fight the poo poo out of Undead. Undead have a resistance to slashing and piercing weapons because they do not rely on blood to continue functioning, but die easily enough to getting bashed to pieces. Other than that, I can't really think of a reason why other than referencing the whole "thou must not draw blood" thing.
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Dec 23, 2013 06:45
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oswald ownenstein posted:Yeah but clerics aren't martial classes. They're temple nerds and blunt weapons don't take any skill to use or something. Also, it's pretty silly when you consider that clerics of war gods (e.g. Tempus) or torture (e.g. Loviatar) are not allowed to shed blood.
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Dec 23, 2013 06:49
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I think its a case of 2e being a lot of half baked house rules they expected folks to tweak to their own tabletops but ended up being absolute because it is what is written in the books.
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Dec 23, 2013 06:54
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zedprime posted:I think its a case of 2e being a lot of half baked house rules they expected folks to tweak to their own tabletops but ended up being absolute because it is what is written in the books. But I agree that AD&D was the product of Gygax making things up when he was a GM and then sticking it into the game with little thought of how one rule would affect the others. Dual-classing for example came from when his son's PC, who was a Mage, lost his spellbook while on an alien planet and was forced to fight since he could no longer cast spells. The ad hoc arrangement Gygax came up to permit that became the dual-classing rules (which of course are completely arbitrary in their implementation only for humans). In-game justification for these arbitrary rules was an afterthought at best. E.g. the racial restrictions for specialist wizards include: "Only humans can be abjurers. It's speculated that the natural magical resistance of elves, half-elves, and gnomes prevents them from mastering abjuration spells" which doesn't really make any sense since these races have no difficulties casting these spells and elves and half-elves are resistant only to charm and sleep spells.
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Dec 23, 2013 07:11
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It's pure inertia, but that doesn't mean it's a bad thing. The fact that clerics have to wield blunt weapons helps define them as a class, which gets dangerously close to being a fighter that also casts priest spells. The idea that clerics have lovely attack options, but good healing/utility spells and top notch defense is a core part of the class. I mean, all the classes are just archetypes anyway. Traditional D&D mages, clerics, and druids are defined by their equipment restrictions in exchange for cool magic. If anything, I think the bigger problem is when that poo poo gets watered down and clerics inevitably become a do-literally-anything jack of all trades like they were in 3rd edition.
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Dec 23, 2013 08:16
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How come humans can't multi-class anyways? What's the justification for that? Bad multitaskers?Dillbag posted:Only humans can dual-class. All races except humans can multi-class. Oops, fixed. Red Mundus fucked around with this message at 08:45 on Dec 23, 2013 |
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Dec 23, 2013 08:19
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Only humans can dual-class. All races except humans can multi-class.
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Dec 23, 2013 08:27
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Red Mundus posted:How come humans can't dual-class anyways? What's the justification for that? Bad multitaskers? I liked the justification 2E had for race restrictions and level limits on classes for races other than humans. The player's handbook said "restrictions reflect the natural tendencies of the races (dwarves like war and fighting and dislike magic, etc.)". Which of course meant that despite their fighting prowess, dwarves could never be as good fighters as humans and, despite the fact they have existed for millenia and as supposed to have ancient magical knowledge, elves can never be as good at magic as humans either. (The meta-game reason for these restrictions was that other races got benefits humans didn't, but the fact that the other races got the benefit at level 1 and humans got a benefit at high levels was a really stupid way of trying to balance things, especially considering the fact that leveling up one of the major aspects of the game.)
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Dec 23, 2013 08:40
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As someone who just jumped into BG1, that multi-class and dual-class bit threw me as well. Honestly, a lot of this poo poo seems incredibly arbitrary (why can't rangers be evil? why can't Mondaron as a fighter/thief use bows, but my pure fighter PC and pure thief Imoen can? why is Khalid so terrible?) but I'm having fun all the same. I played pure vanilla BG1 for a few hours, then out of curiosity checked out BGTuTu, and holy poo poo why did I waste my time playing the other way. I mean, just the slightly faster movement speed and larger screen enhance gameplay so goddamn much. Anyway, since I'm still fiddling around in what I presume is the early game, I have some questions: 1)Am I just missing an enormous amount of sidequests or does leveling take a long loving time? Jaheira popped like ten minutes after I found her, and my PC (again, just a standard human fighter) literally didn't hit Level 2 until I killed the final guy in the Nashkel mines. 2)I got what I considered lucky and five minutes in on my re-rolls I was able to get 18 in every stat but Wisdom, which I dropped all the way to 3. Are there 'safe' dump stats that you can basically make crippling low or will this gently caress me later? This seems like the kind of game that will arbitrarily gently caress me later. 3)Seriously, is Khalid just lovely or am I using him wrong? He's died more than any other character at this point. A goddamn kobold one-shot him! 4)On a similar note, everyone talks up Minsc is being a powerhouse baller but he's died almost as much as Khalid, and I put my best stuff on him. Is this just a case of low-level D&D coming down to one-shot criticals or am I missing some key elements? 5)Why do I keep getting spells and equipment that give me free infravision? I have two party members that literally just have it and it's not terribly interesting. Is there some hidden benefit to infravision other than 'guys glow in the dark' that I'm missing? 6)You seriously have to savescum to get a good level-up? I didn't even notice at first, but when I died and reloaded my PC hit 26 HP instead of 19 HP. This isn't even a question, just, what the gently caress, Gygax? 7)Since I'm tinkering around with BGTuTu anyway and playing a straight fighter is vaguely dull, is it worth it to start over and go paladin or ranger? I'm a little intimidated by being a mage because I don't understand half the 2e rules and don't know which spells are garbage, but even places where I'd think they'd have a guide laying out the pros/cons of each class just say stuff like 'play as a basic human fighter trust me' or 'go half-elf fighter/mage everything else is garbage' etc etc. Help a brother out here, guys who have soloed this game several times! Wolfsheim fucked around with this message at 08:56 on Dec 23, 2013 |
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Dec 23, 2013 08:53
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Factor_VIII posted:The 2E player's handbook doesn't even attempt to justify the fact humans can't multiclass, which is probably for the best. I thought the point of level limits was to answer the question of "why aren't there a bunch of level 100+ Elves and Dwarves running around, since they live so long?". Humans didn't need an explicit level cap because they die of old age at some point.
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Dec 23, 2013 08:58
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Wolfsheim posted:As someone who just jumped into BG1, that multi-class and dual-class bit threw me as well. Honestly, a lot of this poo poo seems incredibly arbitrary (why can't rangers be evil? why can't Mondaron as a fighter/thief use bows, but my pure fighter PC and pure thief Imoen can? why is Khalid so terrible?) but I'm having fun all the same. I played pure vanilla BG1 for a few hours, then out of curiosity checked out BGTuTu, and holy poo poo why did I waste my time playing the other way. I mean, just the slightly faster movement speed and larger screen enhance gameplay so goddamn much. Montaron should be able to use a short bow at least, as for the rest 1) Levelling takes awhile, especially at first, you top out between level 7 and 9 depending on class and version of game. 2) I don't think having a 3 wisdom is going to hurt you in BG1 as a fighter at least 3) Khalid is pretty lovely 4) Minsc is better, but not by a ton. Make sure everyone has helmets though 5) Nope, I don't know why they even implemented infravision other than "because it's in the pen and paper game" turn on group infravision, you'll probably have someone with it in your party most of the time, and even if you don't it's not a big deal, sell all that poo poo unless it has another benefit you need. 6) Turn the difficulty down to normal, I'm pretty sure the only differences at normal you get full HP at level-up and 100% chance to learn spells. Core is for when randomly having a harder time makes the game more fun. 7) If you don't mind starting over and you want to stick with a more straightforward fighter type, go with Inquisitor (Paladin subclass). It has a handful of special abilities that a) make the game easier, and b) gives you a couple other things to do. Berserker (Fighter subclass) and Barbarian are also decent fighter types. Archer (Ranger subclass) is an amazing long range fighter, and long range rules in BG1 so that's another possibility.
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Dec 23, 2013 09:14
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Wolfsheim posted:As someone who just jumped into BG1, that multi-class and dual-class bit threw me as well. Honestly, a lot of this poo poo seems incredibly arbitrary (why can't rangers be evil? why can't Mondaron as a fighter/thief use bows, but my pure fighter PC and pure thief Imoen can? why is Khalid so terrible?) but I'm having fun all the same. I played pure vanilla BG1 for a few hours, then out of curiosity checked out BGTuTu, and holy poo poo why did I waste my time playing the other way. I mean, just the slightly faster movement speed and larger screen enhance gameplay so goddamn much. Eh, beaten, but here's the stuff that isn't redundant. 1) Leveling takes a long rear end time in this game. Most of the challenge of the early game comes from the fact that until you hit level 3 or 4 you're characters are subject to being one shot a lot. 2) Wisdom is a safe dump stat for fighters, Int is usually a safe dump stat for most characters, though not necessarily if you want to import to BG2. 3)Until your front line fighters get 30+ hit points they will die a lot unless you get their AC down. Khalid should optimally have an AC of around -1 or -2 to keep him alive at this point. As the game progresses you'll be able to reduce it even more. 4)Minsc has a dreadful dexterity score, which hurts his AC. He's a good candidate for getting the gauntlets of dexterity. With his high strength, once he has enough hitpoints to not die to things he tends to absolutely destroy any enemy he comes into melee with. 7)Frankly, a fighter is one of the easiest classes to beat BG1 with. Neither Paladin's or Rangers get their spells in BG1 so a lot of the bonuses of those classes won't come into play. That being said, the Inquisitor Paladin kit and Archer Ranger kit are very powerful. Inquisitor's trivialize mages, and Archers turn 90% of BG1 into easy mode. Mages can be trickier, but any AOE crowd control spell like sleep, web, or cloudkill will be your friend. BG1's demands on mages are very light compared to BG2.
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Dec 23, 2013 09:19
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Wolfsheim posted:(why can't rangers be evil? quote:why can't Mondaron as a fighter/thief use bows, but my pure fighter PC and pure thief Imoen can? quote:why is Khalid so terrible? quote:1)Am I just missing an enormous amount of sidequests or does leveling take a long loving time? Jaheira popped like ten minutes after I found her, and my PC (again, just a standard human fighter) literally didn't hit Level 2 until I killed the final guy in the Nashkel mines. quote:2)I got what I considered lucky and five minutes in on my re-rolls I was able to get 18 in every stat but Wisdom, which I dropped all the way to 3. Are there 'safe' dump stats that you can basically make crippling low or will this gently caress me later? This seems like the kind of game that will arbitrarily gently caress me later. To answer more thoroughly, terrible people like to dump Charisma on all their characters (because gently caress talking to people in this roleplaying game, rite?), and put their Intelligence to 5n+1. An enemy in BG2 drains 5 INT per hit and you die if a stat hits 0. Starting in BG1, you can just make it 5n because it's possible to increase your Intelligence by a point. quote:3)Seriously, is Khalid just lovely or am I using him wrong? He's died more than any other character at this point. A goddamn kobold one-shot him! quote:5)Why do I keep getting spells and equipment that give me free infravision? I have two party members that literally just have it and it's not terribly interesting. Is there some hidden benefit to infravision other than 'guys glow in the dark' that I'm missing? quote:6)You seriously have to savescum to get a good level-up? I didn't even notice at first, but when I died and reloaded my PC hit 26 HP instead of 19 HP. This isn't even a question, just, what the gently caress, Gygax?
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Dec 23, 2013 09:28
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I forget if Tutu does anything to Khalid's profiencies, but he makes a good archer. Edit: No wait, did he actually dual-wield bastard swords or something odd there? Smol fucked around with this message at 09:35 on Dec 23, 2013 |
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Dec 23, 2013 09:32
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Wolfsheim posted:As someone who just jumped into BG1, that multi-class and dual-class bit threw me as well. Honestly, a lot of this poo poo seems incredibly arbitrary (why can't rangers be evil? why can't Mondaron as a fighter/thief use bows, but my pure fighter PC and pure thief Imoen can? why is Khalid so terrible?) but I'm having fun all the same. I played pure vanilla BG1 for a few hours, then out of curiosity checked out BGTuTu, and holy poo poo why did I waste my time playing the other way. I mean, just the slightly faster movement speed and larger screen enhance gameplay so goddamn much. 1.)Levelling up is pretty slow. But there are plenty of sidequests. Talk to everyone in the Friendly Arm Inn and then do a round of all the taverns in Bergost and you'll pick up a fair number of sidequests to get going. 2. Depending on your class yeah there are dump stats. Generally you want Max Dexterity and 16 constitution(18 for Rangers Paladins Fighters) but everything else depends on your class. Generally Charisma is the safest dump stat as all it affects is the prices of things in stores and a few minor quest rewards. Wisdom and Int are generally safe to drop too if you are not a caster. 3. If your in Tutu give Khalid a shield to replace one of those bastard swords. Low-level D&D combat is bad enough as a melee type and the extra defence from a shield helps. But yeah melee fighters are weak in low level 2nd ED 4.Minsc is a powerhouse... In Baldurs Gate 2. See above at low levels you want to focus on maximising your AC and THACO so give him a shield and a mace of some sort to replace that two handed sword he starts with. Also get him some real goddamned armour stealth for rangers is more or less worthless. 5.Nope glowing red in the dark is all it does. 6. D&D.txt 7. General rules of thumb. Missile weapons in BG1 are godly. Most classes are playable and fun the only ones you should avoid completely are Monk(useless till about level 10) Wizard Slayer(losing access to magic gear and potions hurts) Beast Master(Just plain bad.) Shapeshifter(Werewolves are pathetic fighters... when on your team.) Everything else is just a matter of how good you want to be. For a newbie I'd recommend you take an Archer (Ranger Kit) pump Longbow skills, buy a longbow and fill everything with Arrows. It'll be less good in BG2 but by then the rest of your party will be able to take up the rest of the slack.
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Dec 23, 2013 09:33
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Smol posted:I forget if Tutu does anything to Khalid's profiencies, but he makes a good archer. I forgot, Tutu gives Khalid that stupid dual wielding spec. It renders him completely useless as a melee combatant.
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Dec 23, 2013 09:34
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Jabor posted:I thought the point of level limits was to answer the question of "why aren't there a bunch of level 100+ Elves and Dwarves running around, since they live so long?". Humans didn't need an explicit level cap because they die of old age at some point.
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Dec 23, 2013 09:56
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Sleep of Bronze posted:To answer more thoroughly, terrible people like to dump Charisma on all their characters (because gently caress talking to people in this roleplaying game, rite?) No. It's because charisma is absolutely not needed on your main character. In BG1 you immediately get the best thief in the game, Imoen, for free (no reaction check). She also happens to have a charisma score of 16, giving you a reaction bonus of +4 if you make her the party face. All you need after that is a reputation of 14 to get a bonus of +1 to your reaction. Having an aggregate reaction bonus of +5 is all that's needed to get the best reactions and rewards. In BG2, there are no reaction checks at all. Not only that, but as soon as you're out of the starting dungeon, right next to where you are, you can do a quick and easy quest that rewards you with a ring that boosts your charisma to 18. Put in on before shopping.
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Dec 23, 2013 09:56
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