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Albino Squirrel posted:What that question has told me is that I need to avoid Ohio, Kentucky, Louisiana, Texas and Arizona at all costs. They're in New York too, if just for beer. It's just there's no specific word for them. Really when it comes to exactly how and where liquor is sold, and what it's called, varying state laws are a big factor in general.
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Dec 26, 2013 05:16
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Killer robot posted:They're in New York too, if just for beer. It's just there's no specific word for them. Really when it comes to exactly how and where liquor is sold, and what it's called, varying state laws are a big factor in general.
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Dec 26, 2013 05:27
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Albino Squirrel posted:You mean besides the term "a terrible idea"? Why are they a bad idea? I want to buy booze on my way home from work. May as well make it quick and efficient. I mean, I haven't lived where they exist but they make sense to me. I mean, when I used to drive commute, I'd have killed to simplify the experience. It's still illegal to drink and drive.
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Dec 26, 2013 05:32
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I can't imagine they actually encourage drunk driving anymore than driving to a walk-in liquor store. Either way, you're driving to and from it.
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Dec 26, 2013 05:39
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Shbobdb posted:Why are they a bad idea? I want to buy booze on my way home from work. May as well make it quick and efficient. I mean, I haven't lived where they exist but they make sense to me. I mean, when I used to drive commute, I'd have killed to simplify the experience. It's still illegal to drink and drive. More importantly, buying a good wine or beer takes time and consideration, more so than you could feasibly do in a drive-thru. This would only encourage the consumption of Coors Lite and thus I cannot support it 
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Dec 26, 2013 05:45
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Albino Squirrel posted:Mostly poor optics ("Up on the sidewalk, boom boom boom!"); I concede that there likely isn't an increase in drinking and driving. I'm sympathetic to those arguments, but at the end of the day I'm not always looking for fancy feast, sometimes I just want an old friend. For me, that is Bitburger. Simple, unpretentious, wunderbar! But things like Bell's Two-Hearted would have served just as well but is less likely to come in singles. Now that I live in Cali, it is easy to default to Stone. I unabashedly love all those beers, but I also view them as "old friends" where I don't really need to "think" or "spend time" ordering them. I grab 'em, drink 'em and forget 'em. That's part of the experience I'm looking for. If someone else finds the same solace in Coors light ("lite" is a Miller trademark, and despite the current co-ownership we need to support tradition), who am I to say "no!"? Their lovely choice is their lovely choice. Maybe they just want to get blasted. I can't argue with that, I'm drinking craft beer not exclusive teas and coffees. The intoxicating properties are part of the appeal. Maybe they are nostalgic for what they grew up with. I can't argue with that, I learned how to drink beer in Germany so I've got a huge soft-spot for lovely Euro-lagers -- and a deep, abiding love of a proper Pils. Not my place to poo poo on someone's fond memories, that is what assholes do. Or maybe they just genuinely like the flavor. I know that means they are a deeply broken individual, I agree with you. It tastes like piss. I can be snobbish (and I am often snobbish, I'm a real piece of poo poo) but I'm not enough of a snob to say "You shouldn't be able to buy Coors Light". Instead, I'd rather address the systemic issues that makes people drink pissshit as opposed to try and ineffectually discourage them from drinking pissshit.
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Dec 26, 2013 06:12
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Ogantai posted:Some states have elections for judges, while some states appoint them. Does that mean that in states where judges are appointed people are being denied the right to vote? As I said before, the right to vote is defined as a "fundamental right" by the Supreme Court. The Court usually looks through a few different frameworks when deciding whether something is a fundamental right: (1) a deeply rooted history or tradition of the right's existence; (2) the opinions and intent of the Framers of the Constitution; (3) whether the right is implicit in our system of ordered liberty. Is "the right to vote" fundamental? Under all three frameworks, the answer is yes. (1) Voting has been a central component of American governance since the 1600s - even during the Revolution and the Civil War, elections were still being held. (2) The power of (white male landowning) voters was considered a key check on legislative and executive tyranny by the Framers. (3) Voting is implicit in our system of ordered liberty. If we couldn't vote out oppressive leaders we would either lose our liberty to a tyrant, or else be forced to turn to a disordered method of change (like a revolution). Is "the right to vote in judicial elections" fundamental? Under all three frameworks, the answer is no. (1) For hundreds of years, nobody voted for judges - it wasn't until the mid-1800s that some states began electing judges, and as you note some states still don't. We could possibly say this right exists, but it's not "fundamental" as the Court would define it, and so not deserving of the same protection. (2) The Framers were concerned with judicial independence and impartiality - they wanted judges to be insulated from voters, not dependent on them like the political branches. (3) If ordered liberty exists in the many states (and the federal government, and other common-law systems) which don't allow judicial election, then the right to judicial election is obviously not implicit. This is the reasoning for why judicial appointments don't violate the right to vote. But to go back to your broader point, that there is no right to vote, from Reynolds v Sims: quote:Undeniably, the Constitution of the United States protects the right of all qualified citizens to vote, in state as well as in federal, elections. A consistent line of decisions by this Court in cases involving attempts to deny or restrict the right of suffrage has made this indelibly clear. It has been repeatedly recognized that all qualified voters have a constitutionally protected right to vote and to have their votes counted... it is "as equally unquestionable that the right to have one's vote counted is as open to protection . . . as the right to put a ballot in a box." The right to vote can neither be denied outright nor destroyed by alteration of ballots, nor diluted by ballot box stuffing. As the Court stated in Classic "Obviously included within the right to choose, secured by the Constitution, is the right of qualified voters within a state to cast their ballots and have them counted. . . ." [citations omitted]
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Dec 26, 2013 09:47
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Ponsonby Britt posted:As I said before, the right to vote is defined as a "fundamental right" by the Supreme Court. The Court usually looks through a few different frameworks when deciding whether something is a fundamental right: (1) a deeply rooted history or tradition of the right's existence; (2) the opinions and intent of the Framers of the Constitution; (3) whether the right is implicit in our system of ordered liberty. How would the compact breach the right to vote? The compact does not remove anyone's right to vote, if it went into effect it would assign electors to the person who won the most votes nationwide, meaning that everyone's vote would have the exact same value no matter where in the country they were from.
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Dec 26, 2013 12:10
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Reveilled posted:How would the compact breach the right to vote? The compact does not remove anyone's right to vote, if it went into effect it would assign electors to the person who won the most votes nationwide, meaning that everyone's vote would have the exact same value no matter where in the country they were from. I could see a situation where despite a majority of the inhabitants of the state voting for [one guy], all of the electoral voted are instead allocated to [other guy], and how that might seem unfair. Of course this is mitigated somewhat by the fact that the only place these laws have passed are Democratic leaning states and Democratic candidates as of late tend to always win the popular vote.
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Dec 26, 2013 14:47
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computer parts posted:I could see a situation where despite a majority of the inhabitants of the state voting for [one guy], all of the electoral voted are instead allocated to [other guy], and how that might seem unfair. It'd still be constitutional; the right to vote in federal elections still only applies to Congressional elections, and the Senate was only included in that list a hundred years ago by the Seventeenth Amendment. Arguably, a state could elect federal-judges-in-waiting, which are then nominated by the President and automatically blue-slipped and/or confirmed by convention.  Meanwhile, the right of the states to choose their electors as they wish is guaranteed by Article II. Let's say that Pennsylvania were to choose the congressional district method of choosing electors, as the Republican-controlled state legislature has floated several times. Despite Obama winning Pennsylvania by five points in 2012, Romney would have taken 13 electoral votes to his 7. Unfair? Yes. Undemocratic? Yes. Constitutional? Most definitely.
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Dec 26, 2013 15:21
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computer parts posted:Of course this is mitigated somewhat by the fact that the only place these laws have passed are Democratic leaning states and Democratic candidates as of late tend to always win the popular vote.
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Dec 26, 2013 20:21
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Shbobdb posted:Cali This is how a Californian spots an outsider.
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Dec 26, 2013 20:43
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Lycus posted:I'm pretty sure electoral vote winner tends to always win the popular vote, regardless of party. Remember that 2000 wasn't a common situation. What I mean more is that the Democrats have won the popular vote all but once since 1992. (Clinton actually won a plurality in both of his elections but they were the highest, and actually so did Gore in 2000)
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Dec 26, 2013 21:50
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It's a meaningless stat, indicative of nothing, because all but two of those were Democratic victories in the EC too. Popular/electoral splits votes are just rare, period, so pointing out how many times a party's specifically won the popular vote within a certain time frame is worthless. Besides, that time frame is designed to return of particular result since its four Democratic wins to two Republican wins. You might as well say "From 2008 - 2012, the Democrats won every popular vote. Holy poo poo, the Democrats always win the popular vote!" A better time frame would be 1984 - 2012, since that's 4 vs 4, and so the popular vote is 5 Democrats to 3 Republicans, which shows nothing more than 2000 being an exception. Lycus fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Dec 26, 2013 |
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Dec 26, 2013 22:09
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Carbon dioxide posted:For instance, Afrikaans has the term 'aftrekplek' for a rest stop next to a large road. In Dutch 'aftrekplek' would mean a place for male masturbation. Signs like that are often photographed by Dutch tourists. Wait wait. "Aftrekken" is Dutch slang for masurbation? I guess I'd better watch myself then if I visit the Netherlands and I'm wearing snow pants or something that I need to take off. "Hou op! Ik trek dit af!"  (Our slang for that is draadtrek by the way; I don't know if you say that). Oh hey this is a maps thread, not a comparative wank slang thread here, isn't it? You might be surprised that though English is the most widely spoken language in South Africa, almost nowhere is it the dominant first language.  Just a couple spots there in Durban and roundabout Johannesburg. Oh and the rich part of the Cape of course.
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Dec 26, 2013 23:20
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Grand Prize Winner posted:This is how a Californian spots an outsider. This man speaks the truth.
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Dec 26, 2013 23:26
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VitalSigns posted:Wait wait. "Aftrekken" is Dutch slang for masurbation? I guess I'd better watch myself then if I visit the Netherlands and I'm wearing snow pants or something that I need to take off. "Hou op! Ik trek dit af!" We don't say 'draadtrek' at all and the word for taking off pants and such is 'uittrekken'.
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Dec 26, 2013 23:51
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Carbon dioxide posted:We don't say 'draadtrek' at all and the word for taking off pants and such is 'uittrekken'. Ahh okay. We say 'uittrek' if you're pulling something off over your head like a shirt or something. It's 'aftrek' if you're pulling something down to take it off like pants or socks. Edit: I'm not sure what is with all of our sexual sewing metaphors. "Draadtrek" (threadpulling) for (male) masturbation, and "naai" (to sew) meaning to gently caress. I never really thought about it before but it's weird as hell. So you may think that Afrikaans is a huge plurality language from this map. Of course if you compare to a population map...  All that Afrikaans space is, well, like Wyoming. Nothing but wilderness and cattle ranches. That's where my family lives on their sheep ranch, in a part of the country so Afrikaans that even postal workers don't know much English! Ordinarily that would be a warning to travelers but unless you're looking to buy (or maybe gently caress) a sheep there's no reason you'd ever go there anyway. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Dec 27, 2013 |
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Dec 27, 2013 00:01
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That looks exactly like some huge, weird lobster.
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Dec 27, 2013 04:46
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I was reading a little about language change in South Africa and I was wondering if you had any insight into the modern situation. Are there big generational divides over language that you notice? What language do you use in your day to day activity?
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Dec 27, 2013 04:47
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karl fungus posted:That looks exactly like some huge, weird lobster. Or one of those CT cross-sections of some part of a fat person
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Dec 27, 2013 05:02
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Reveilled posted:How would the compact breach the right to vote? The compact does not remove anyone's right to vote, if it went into effect it would assign electors to the person who won the most votes nationwide, meaning that everyone's vote would have the exact same value no matter where in the country they were from. I don't think the compact would breach anyone's right to vote. The compact might be challenged as a violation of Article I, Section 10, Clause 3: "No State shall, without the consent of Congress … enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State." As TinTower pointed out, the Constitution also guarantees states the right to choose their own electors, and I'm not sure how the Court would reconcile those two provisions. But that's nothing to do with the right to vote. I was merely arguing against the person who claimed that quote:The Constitution doesn't say anything about a "right to vote". If a state wanted to it could do away with voting entirely and choose its legislators by having candidates run a sack race, or a gameshow, or just by pulling names out of a hat (and IMHO that be a much better system).
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Dec 27, 2013 05:39
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VitalSigns posted:Ahh okay. We say 'uittrek' if you're pulling something off over your head like a shirt or something. It's 'aftrek' if you're pulling something down to take it off like pants or socks. Well, we have naaien as slang too. 
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Dec 27, 2013 10:06
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Carbon dioxide posted:Well, we have naaien as slang too. Good to know. I stayed away from slang when I was in Holland in the fall, because the accent and vocabulary barrier was big enough as it was. Caspar de Vries has a comedic bit about the differences (he's half-Dutch). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3a1HBnGbNic (Afrikaans) Squalid posted:I was reading a little about language change in South Africa and I was wondering if you had any insight into the modern situation. Are there big generational divides over language that you notice? What language do you use in your day to day activity? My family moved to the USA when I was young, and my dad is American so I only speak Afrikaans with my mother and her family. So, much of my perspective is as an outsider because I only visit. Essentially, English is the lingua franca: everyone speaks it to some degree, and if you don't know someone the default is to assume English (except in my family's ultra-Afrikaans area where people default to assuming you speak Afrikaans). What I notice mostly is the willingness of the younger generation of white people to learn African languages. You're required to take a second language in school, and it used to be English and Afrikaans, but now the requirement is English and any second language. My mother's childhood friend, who is in her 60's, confessed to me with some embarrassment that she never thought to learn any words of her housekeeper's language. Another woman I met told me that as a girl their Sotho maid used to teach her some words but when her mother found out what the maid was doing she put a stop to it. My American dad remembers getting a book in the 80's to learn Zulu (he likes languages and tries to at least be able to say a few words in the local language), and he was shocked to find that the book had nothing conversational in it and was mainly concerned teaching you how to order your Zulu servants around (it opened with a phrases to instruct a caddy on a golf course   ) But that's changing. I met this English guy in Cape Town last year, and he'd taken several years of Xhosa in school (he didn't want to learn Afrikaans, because he thinks Afrikaners are all just a bunch of racist rednecks but he's wrong about us because that's only mostly true), and that would have been almost unheard of 20 years ago I understand.I've been glad to see that there's been sort of a renaissance of Afrikaans film, music, and culture after a nadir in the 90's, and it seems that most Afrikaners are thankfully abandoning their strong identification of racism with defending their culture and that's for the better. There was an acclaimed movie recently in the Zulu language (Totsi) which I have been meaning to see, and I really hope that more of the African languages break into film and establish themselves in popular media. I'd also love to see something filmed in Cape Coloured Afrikaans because I want to hear more of that: I can barely understand a word of it. This is becoming an essay, so I'll stop with mentioning Die Antwoord but I'm sure you've heard of them.
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Dec 27, 2013 16:21
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No, it's very interesting. I always thought it was kind of a shame that the Dutch never managed to spread their language around the way the Portuguese did. And in the one non-European country outside of Suriname with a sizeable amount of Dutch-speakers, they insisted on calling it Afrikaans.
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Dec 27, 2013 18:54
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Coming from the UK find hearing Dutch to be slightly disconcerting, it maybe because its the most similar language to English I have had no teching / contact with but yeah.
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Dec 27, 2013 19:06
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Rumda posted:Coming from the UK find hearing Dutch to be slightly disconcerting, it maybe because its the most similar language to English I have had no teching / contact with but yeah. Afrikaans would be even more disconcerting to you then. The stress patterns sound even more like English than those of Dutch I think. When I'm watching Afrikaans movies, my roommates have mentioned overhearing it and thinking it's English until they try to listen a bit harder and realize the words don't make any sense to them. Here, have Charlize Theron answering a Belgian journalist's Dutch (Flemish?) questions in Afrikaans if you're interested in hearing the difference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCK15ZksgFw Phlegmish posted:And in the one non-European country outside of Suriname with a sizeable amount of Dutch-speakers, they insisted on calling it Afrikaans. If you dislike the name, you can blame the rear end in a top hat English for that (no offense to any English bastards reading this thread  ), but after the Second Boer War the English heavily suppressed Afrikaans. They said it was a bastardized Dutch spoken by ignorant hillbillies (kitchen Dutch, they called it), and this really pushed the Afrikaner Dutch to proclaim it its own language distinct from Dutch with its own well-defined grammar and rules.Unfortunately, when the Afrikaners and English finally put aside their differences to unite in the noble pursuit of keeping the black man down, the Afrikaners drew the exact wrong conclusions from English suppression of their language. Rather than: "children should be proud of their language and able to learn in it rather than beaten for speaking it, and language shouldn't be a barrier to education or full participation in society" they thought "Oh man, suppressing other languages is the way to go when you can make sure yours is on top!"
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Dec 27, 2013 19:53
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Rumda posted:Coming from the UK find hearing Dutch to be slightly disconcerting, it maybe because its the most similar language to English I have had no teching / contact with but yeah. Dutch, apparently, has some weird universal quality that makes it sound exactly like other Germanic languages (to the speakers of those languages) if you squint your ears. I'm Swedish, and my experience with Dutch has been more or less the same. It takes a while for me to realize I don't actually understand much of what they're saying at all, even though it feels like I should. Someone in another thread likened it to hearing your own language while having a stroke. AFAIK Norwegians and Danes feel more or less the same way. I haven't the slightest clue why this is. 
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Dec 27, 2013 20:34
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Native English speaker here and I once watched a movie in Dutch for about half an hour before realizing it wasn't in English.
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Dec 27, 2013 21:10
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Benito Hitlerstalin posted:Dutch, apparently, has some weird universal quality that makes it sound exactly like other Germanic languages (to the speakers of those languages) if you squint your ears. I'm Swedish, and my experience with Dutch has been more or less the same. It takes a while for me to realize I don't actually understand much of what they're saying at all, even though it feels like I should. Someone in another thread likened it to hearing your own language while having a stroke. AFAIK Norwegians and Danes feel more or less the same way. I haven't the slightest clue why this is. Dutch is a part of the westgermanic language tree, and so other languages that came from this source will share a lot of words, and have very similar sounding words. It's like how Danes and Swedes supposedly can talk to each other in their respective languages, because they are so close to each other in the North Germanic language branch. (This isn't true in practicality as you are probably aware. Kameloso!)
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Dec 27, 2013 21:24
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Modest Mao posted:Native English speaker here and I once watched a movie in Dutch for about half an hour before realizing it wasn't in English.
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Dec 27, 2013 21:30
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a travelling HEGEL posted:German is my second language and Dutch sounds like German to me except that I don't know what the hell is going on. Everyone says I can work my way into knowing Dutch if I know German and English already but it isn't true, it is not true at all. Because of my German and English I can actually read Dutch pretty effectively. For some words, the English helps, for others the German helps and that gives me enough context clues to figure out the rest. The problem is that I have to sound out the words, so I look like an idiot since my mouth is moving while I am reading. Understanding it when spoken is much more difficult, because the way I do it is more of a "chinese room" cobbling together symbols.
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Dec 27, 2013 21:37
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If you really want to get into the linguistics uncanny valley watch this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt4Dfa4fOEY It really does sound like they're speaking English, but it's mostly gibberish. They throw some real words in every once in a while and it really triggers your recognition response.
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Dec 27, 2013 21:50
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TURN IT OFF! posted:It's like how Danes and Swedes supposedly can talk to each other in their respective languages, because they are so close to each other in the North Germanic language branch. (This isn't true in practicality as you are probably aware. Kameloso!) Yeah, but that's different, since I understand both Norwegian and Danish on the basis of speaking Swedish. Dutch, on the other hand, ought to be as foreign to me as German or English (which I never mistake for anything but what they are). Yet, somehow, this is not the case. oldswitcheroo posted:If you really want to get into the linguistics uncanny valley watch this video. That's pretty much like how I experience spoken Dutch. Except they are obviously speaking “English” in the video. You get my drift. Cake Smashing Boob fucked around with this message at 22:08 on Dec 27, 2013 |
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Dec 27, 2013 21:53
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oldswitcheroo posted:If you really want to get into the linguistics uncanny valley watch this video. This song also did a pretty good job of making me think my brain was broken the first time I heard it. It's gibberish meant to sound like American English from an Italian perspective.
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Dec 27, 2013 22:06
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Benito Hitlerstalin posted:That's pretty much like how I experience spoken Dutch. There are a number of superficial similarities between Dutch and the Scandinavian languages that you wouldn't necessarily expect given that they belong to different branches of the Germanic language family. I think it has to do with the fact that neither of them underwent the High Germanic consonant shift. Even though Standard German is obviously closer to Dutch, I still find written Swedish to be more instinctively familiar at first glance.
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Dec 27, 2013 22:18
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Golden_Zucchini posted:This song also did a pretty good job of making me think my brain was broken the first time I heard it. It's gibberish meant to sound like American English from an Italian perspective. I love everything about this, and am always happy when people remind me it exists.
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Dec 27, 2013 22:31
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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VitalSigns posted:'I'd also love to see something filmed in Cape Coloured Afrikaans because I want to hear more of that: I can barely understand a word of it. This is becoming an essay, so I'll stop with mentioning Die Antwoord but I'm sure you've heard of them. Not necessarily about Cape Coloured Afrikaans, but I saw an interesting documentary a couple years ago about Cape Coloured identity. It goes over some information that a lot of you/those of us in this thread already know, but it's mostly pretty enlightening interviews. "I'm Not Black, I'm Coloured - Identity Crisis at the Cape of Good Hope (2009)" https://vimeo.com/23617382 ninjaedit: embedding not working http://vimeo.com/23617382 Bastaman Vibration fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Dec 27, 2013 |
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Dec 27, 2013 22:57
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 A map of Germanic languages spoken in Europe. Legend here See that brownish spot in the North of the Netherlands? That's the province of Fryslân (Frisian spelling), where Frisian is an important language. It is the country's second official language. I don't know too much about it, but I do know I can't understand much of it. It sounds like a really really strong dialect, but I'm guessing the differences between Dutch and Frisian are larger than those among the Scandinavian languages. Interestingly though, the Frisian language is the closest 'living relative' to English (not counting sorta-dialects that evolved from modern English). The languages parted around the time of Old English, but the proto-English/Frisian was already far apart from proto-Dutch by then. If you look closely, you can find a few similarities between Frisian and English that are different in Dutch. Carbon dioxide fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Dec 27, 2013 |
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Dec 27, 2013 23:08
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Shbobdb posted:Because of my German and English I can actually read Dutch pretty effectively. For some words, the English helps, for others the German helps and that gives me enough context clues to figure out the rest. The problem is that I have to sound out the words, so I look like an idiot since my mouth is moving while I am reading. Unfortunately, it doesn't work nearly so well when I hear it either because I don't have those spelling cues to jog my brain.
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Dec 27, 2013 23:17
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