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VisAbsoluta posted:When should I dual class with a Ranger/Cleric and which one should I start as? Half-elf, start with both. 
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Dec 26, 2013 22:25
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flowinprose posted:MULTIclass, not dual class. What makes a multiclassed Cleric/Ranger so good? Dual wielding Flail of Ages + <something> and useful cleric spells while fully armored?
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Dec 26, 2013 22:28
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Mickey McKey posted:What makes a multiclassed Cleric/Ranger so good? Dual wielding Flail of Ages + <something> and useful cleric spells while fully armored? Due to the way the game determines spell lists, they get access to all druid spells and cleric spells, as well as the benefits you mentioned. Also, once you get into the high level abilities, you will get the ridiculous fighter abilities like whirlwind in addition to the cleric HLA. Unfortunately I do not think they get the druid specific HLA like greater elemental summoning or elemental transformations. flowinprose fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Dec 26, 2013 |
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Dec 26, 2013 22:32
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Mickey McKey posted:What makes a multiclassed Cleric/Ranger so good? Dual wielding Flail of Ages + <something> and useful cleric spells while fully armored? Pretty much. You also have a wide range of great weapons in both BG's, free dual wield ranks, access to druid spells up to level 7, and eventually HLA's of both classes.
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Dec 26, 2013 22:35
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VisAbsoluta posted:When should I dual class with a Ranger/Cleric and which one should I start as? Just multiclass don't dual. Dual classing is more work for no appreciable gain in this case.
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Dec 26, 2013 22:36
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VisAbsoluta posted:When should I dual class with a Ranger/Cleric and which one should I start as? You can either multiclass or dual-class, there are pros and cons to both. Are you playing BG1, 2, or all the way through both? Dual-classing you absolutely want to start as a Ranger, you can do a kit if you want but honestly they're fairly underwhelming and probably best to stick with a pure Ranger. I'd recommend going to level 7 for the few levels of extra HP and the extra 1/2 attack at level 7, then dual to Cleric. The advantage to a dual class Ranger/Cleric is you'll have more and earlier Cleric levels (so many/most Cleric spells will be correspondingly stronger). So, the dual-class will be a stronger spellcaster, though still very competent and scary in melee combat. The disadvantages are that you'll miss out on 1/2 APR, a few points of THAC0, you'll have to deal with having an inactive class for potentially quite a while, and most importantly you won't have access to warrior HLAs. Humans only. Multiclassed Ranger/Cleric will be a stronger fighter since you'll eventually get better base THAC0 and an extra 1/2 attack at Ranger 13 beyond what you would with the dual, plus warrior HLAs. You'll end up with less Cleric levels than the dual, but will have access to both warrior and cleric HLAs. Half-elf is your only option for race. The multiclass is probably the better option in most cases, having a ton of caster levels isn't quite as important for Clerics as it is for Mages.
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Dec 26, 2013 22:37
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VisAbsoluta posted:When should I dual class with a Ranger/Cleric and which one should I start as? They are all fun for different reasons. R/C Multi is the easiest. No frills powergaming. Have fun in the late game with your Greater Whirlwinds/Globe of Blades and your Hardiness/Armor of Faith combos. Duals have some interesting effects but generally require long waits as a vanilla cleric for the latent Ranger class to kick in. There is good reason to believe that the easiest dual is unkitted Ranger->Cleric at 9: Beastmaster->Cleric should dual at 13, requiring a total of 2.85 mill XP meaning don't expect to have fun with this in SoA unless solo. Can only be proficient in Clubs, Staves, and Slings and gets in return insane access to Animal Summoning 1, 2, and 3 (and Find Familiar). Neat, but not worth it. Stalker->Cleric should dual at 13 also, gaining x3 backstabs and Haste, Minor Spell Deflection, and Pro Normal Missiles as 3rd level priest spells (ie virtually unlimited). As mentioned previously this is like a Fighter/Thief/Druid/Cleric multiclass with a few mage spells thrown in. Very flexible. Archer->Cleric can dual at 9 or 13. **Not for the faint of heart** Say goodbye to grandmastery in bows and hello to regular specialization in slings! Why? You can use Called Shot to inflict huge save vs. spell penalties on tough opponents before hitting them with trash save or else spells like Poison and Slay Living. You can give these penalties an area of effect by appying them to Fire Seeds. You can Strength Drain people with Energy Blades. Throw history's deadliest Magical Stone spell. Whee! amanasleep fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Dec 26, 2013 |
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Dec 26, 2013 22:40
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I'm almost done with a BG2 (starting ToB soon) playthrough with a 13 Stalker -> Cleric and frankly I don't recommend it. All that versatility (every divine spell plus a couple mage spells, melee blender, stealth and x3 backstab) sounds great on paper. However, the backstab isn't that useful in BG2 and any actually challenging enemy will be immune to backstabs. Remember that strength damage bonuses don't apply to backstabs and your multiplier tops out at x3, so the damage will feel very underwhelming once you regain access to your Ranger levels. Really the biggest disadvantages are that you're dualling at level 13 and will spend much of SoA with your Ranger levels inactive which is kind of a pain in the dick, plus you miss out on warrior HLAs. Hardiness and Improved Whirlwind are about a billion times more useful than your x3 backstabs, which is the main reason you'd pick a Stalker. amanasleep's Archer/Cleric build sounds interesting, though. I'd never thought about trying to exploit the Called shot save penalty. Edit: is strength adding damage to slings a new thing in EE? I'm pretty sure it didn't add any bonus damage in vanilla BG. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Dec 26, 2013 |
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Dec 26, 2013 22:53
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So, how likely are wild mages to kill themselves and their party? I'm considering starting an ironman run with run in Baldur's Gate but it seems like a terrible idea, especially as I've never used one before.
Catastrophics fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Dec 26, 2013 |
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Dec 26, 2013 23:30
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Pellisworth posted:I'm almost done with a BG2 (starting ToB soon) playthrough with a 13 Stalker -> Cleric and frankly I don't recommend it. All that versatility (every divine spell plus a couple mage spells, melee blender, stealth and x3 backstab) sounds great on paper. However, the backstab isn't that useful in BG2 and any actually challenging enemy will be immune to backstabs. Remember that strength damage bonuses don't apply to backstabs and your multiplier tops out at x3, so the damage will feel very underwhelming once you regain access to your Ranger levels. Archer->Cleric is only interesting as an exploit demonstrator/Gimmick Solo build (giving a Solo Divine caster a way to cast spells at high save opponents is pretty useful). Fire Seeds get bonus Warrior attacks, so you can use them like Greater Malison on groups of tougher enemies before casting Greater Command, Symbol: Stun, or Nature's Beauty. A regular archer with a party can do much more ridiculous stuff with Called Shot more often and more consistently, though.
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Dec 26, 2013 23:35
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Catastrophics posted:So, how likely are wild mages to kill themselves and their party? I'm considering starting an ironman run with run in Baldur's Gate but it seems like a terrible idea, especially as I've never used one before. It'll be interesting. Wild Mages are a more likely to self-destruct at lower levels, because I think it adds your level to the wild surge roll, and the lower rolls tend to be worse. It shouldn't be too much worse than a normal mage run unless you spend a lot of time casting Nahal's Reckless Dweomer. You'll only get a wild surge about 1 in 20 times and about half the surges are either not that bad, or helpful.
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Dec 26, 2013 23:52
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Wait, so neither INT, WIS or CHA has any effect on sorcerers in BG? Seriously?  And on a side note for my current playthrough as an inquisitor; is the minimum 13 WIS actually used for gameplay purposes or is it just weird flavor restrictions along the lines of all rangers being good-aligned and halflings being barred from half the classes?
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Dec 26, 2013 23:56
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Skwirl posted:It'll be interesting. Wild Mages are a more likely to self-destruct at lower levels, because I think it adds your level to the wild surge roll, and the lower rolls tend to be worse. ...I should have checked the thread again before starting the run. I decided to cast Nahal's Reckless Dwemer in the first fight just once to see what it was like. 
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Dec 26, 2013 23:56
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Catastrophics posted:So, how likely are wild mages to kill themselves and their party? I'm considering starting an ironman run with run in Baldur's Gate but it seems like a terrible idea, especially as I've never used one before. I've finished all of the sidequests aside from windspear hills and the shade lord temple without any horrible party slaying backfire. During the planar sphere stronghold quests I had it gate in demons which utterly destroyed the anti-mage fanatics. A quick party wide protection from evil saved me so its really not that hard to deal with just make sure you have a back up for whatever you want to cast.
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Dec 26, 2013 23:57
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Wolfsheim posted:And on a side note for my current playthrough as an inquisitor; is the minimum 13 WIS actually used for gameplay purposes or is it just weird flavor restrictions along the lines of all rangers being good-aligned and halflings being barred from half the classes? By strict 2nd Edition AD&D rules, you rolled your stats before you picked your class. You did 3d6 six times, and the rolls were assigned, in order, to Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma. The idea being that your characters are "people" and nobody is born knowing they're going to be a wizard or a priest or whatever. The purpose of the "minimum" stats is that Player Character classes are exceptional people. Even a 1st level fighter is a better warrior than 90% of a king's army, for example. The "expansion" classes, that is Rangers, Paladins, Druids, Bards and specialist Wizards, were considered to be even more special and exceptional than Fighters, Clerics, Thieves and Mages, and they needed very special stats. The AD&D Dungeon Master's Guide even had a note about being wary of diluting the specialness of classes like the Paladin by letting players fudge their dice rolls. Obviously that would never work for a video game. HackensackBackpack fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Dec 27, 2013 |
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Dec 27, 2013 00:08
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Question regarding EE NPC quests in ToB. Do their quests end as follows or is there more to them? Neera's quest ends when Stass Tan sends you away? Rasaad's when the shadow creatures destroy his nemesis and you escape the shadow plane? Dorn's when you modify the scroll in the heavens and then leave? If they don't end at these points, is there somewhere or some point where they continue?Azuth0667 posted:I've finished all of the sidequests aside from windspear hills and the shade lord temple without any horrible party slaying backfire.
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Dec 27, 2013 00:18
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I want to run through BG->TOB with a single character, which is something I haven't actually done yet despite playing through BG and BGII plenty of times individually. I've also never really used a divine caster + fighter type as a main, so I'd like to try one out. Stalker->Cleric dual looks interesting, but after reading a few of the posts here it seems like he just won't be as fun as he sounds. Also, waiting until Cleric 12 or 13 or whenever to regain my ranger levels means that for the majority of SoA I'm toting around a weak cleric. There's the always popular R/C multi that is obviously a powerhouse - but what I'm also interested in are the Bezerker->Cleric or Bezerker->Druid duals or Bezerker/Cleric or Bezerker/Drud multis (using Shadowkeeper). Is a Bezerker->Cleric dual/druid at 9 going to be durable, powerful, and fun through ToB? Is that extra half attack by waiting to 13 worth it? I intend to use a full party, probably incorporating all the new NPCs at one point or another to see their new content. The only dual class character I've run is a Kensai/Mage small-party character, which was nuts, but I'd like to try a dual-class in a larger party.
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Dec 27, 2013 00:28
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Factor_VIII posted:Question regarding EE NPC quests in ToB. Do their quests end as follows or is there more to them? Neera's quest ends when Stass Tan sends you away? Rasaad's when the shadow creatures destroy his nemesis and you escape the shadow plane? Dorn's when you modify the scroll in the heavens and then leave? If they don't end at these points, is there somewhere or some point where they continue? Speaking of ToB quests, Rassad question. Does anyone know where the "special grog" is for the Deepstone Dwarves or is a frontal assault to the only option?
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Dec 27, 2013 00:30
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Berserker/Druid kicks a whole lot of rear end and regains its Berserker features at warp speed due to the nonsensical levelling curve of Druids. Dualling at 13 on the other hand is a terrible idea, again, due to the nonsensical levelling curve of Druids.
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Dec 27, 2013 00:31
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I did a solo dual classed berserker/cleric run and it was really loving easy. Being able to wear the best armor, cast cleric spells and be immune to basically everything is fun.
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Dec 27, 2013 00:42
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Dillbag posted:Speaking of ToB quests, Rassad question. Does anyone know where the "special grog" is for the Deepstone Dwarves or is a frontal assault to the only option?
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Dec 27, 2013 00:42
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So B->D (@ 9) or B->C (@ 9)? Obviously the Druid misses out on the sweet self-buffs that make a Cleric multi- or dual- so potent, but they gain the fun druid abilities (Ironskins, BEES, etc.)
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Dec 27, 2013 00:43
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Factor_VIII posted:The leader of the guards outside the door has it. If you want to go through the tunnel you need to kill the outside guards to take it from them. Just don't enter through the front door. Solid, thanks for the help. Is there any advantage to doing it this way instead of a frontal assault?
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Dec 27, 2013 00:55
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Dillbag posted:Speaking of ToB quests, Rassad question. Does anyone know where the "special grog" is for the Deepstone Dwarves or is a frontal assault to the only option? There is a drunken guard standing just to the left of the bridge (sort of beside a standing stone there, and if you sneak past the bridge guards you can talk to him without alerting anyone else and get him to give you the Grog. On the other hand, when I did the quest I killed the guards that were overseeing the dwarves cutting down trees, and one of them has a potion of exploding you can give to the dwarves in the south to blow up the tunnel and apparently they don't need the grog even though they claimed they did... Alternatively you can kill the lumber overseers, and then talk to the dwarves that were cutting down trees and they suggest floating down the river on a raft to get to a little back cave entrance. So there are really 3 ways in: front door, explode the tunnel, or float the river. As for which one is most advantageous: If you explode the tunnel you can get to the caverns beneath the temple, which is really where you end up needing to go anyway, and just let the dwarves go up and take care of freeing their bro's in the temple. Floating the river just avoids the guards in front of the main entrance. You will still likely have to fight almost everything in the temple proper if you go that route. flowinprose fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Dec 27, 2013 |
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Dec 27, 2013 00:56
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gaan kak posted:So B->D (@ 9) or B->C (@ 9)? Obviously the Druid misses out on the sweet self-buffs that make a Cleric multi- or dual- so potent, but they gain the fun druid abilities (Ironskins, BEES, etc.) Yeah both of those are extremely solid. Keep in mind Druids also get poison immunity (lvl 15) and elemental resists (10% to all at levels 18, 21, and 24 for 30% total) plus you'll have quite different weapons allowed. You won't pull off a Flail of Ages/Crom Faeyr as a Druid, but you can kill Drizzt and take his scimitars.
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Dec 27, 2013 01:04
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Wolfsheim posted:Wait, so neither INT, WIS or CHA has any effect on sorcerers in BG? Seriously? You need at least 9 INT to read scrolls. Other than that none of them matter at all.
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Dec 27, 2013 01:06
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Pellisworth posted:Yeah both of those are extremely solid. Keep in mind Druids also get poison immunity (lvl 15) and elemental resists (10% to all at levels 18, 21, and 24 for 30% total) plus you'll have quite different weapons allowed. You won't pull off a Flail of Ages/Crom Faeyr as a Druid, but you can kill Drizzt and take his scimitars. Probably a better idea to just shoot for Grandmastery in Spears, use the Impaler until you get Grandmastery in staves at Druid level 24 then switch to the Staff of the Ram.
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Dec 27, 2013 01:12
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Captain Oblivious posted:Probably a better idea to just shoot for Grandmastery in Spears, use the Impaler until you get Grandmastery in staves at Druid level 24 then switch to the Staff of the Ram. No way, you have to give the Staff of the Ram to Jan so he can destroy knees with it.
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Dec 27, 2013 01:14
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gaan kak posted:So B->D (@ 9) or B->C (@ 9)? Obviously the Druid misses out on the sweet self-buffs that make a Cleric multi- or dual- so potent, but they gain the fun druid abilities (Ironskins, BEES, etc.) Also Nature's Beauty, and you have all of the Cleric HLA's, and a couple unique ones.
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Dec 27, 2013 01:21
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Don't forget that druids can offhand Belm. I'd make a beserker/druid dual class into a dual wielder personally, especially since you wont get impWW to make the most of those 2h weapons. Start with scimitars in BG1 then switch to clubs in BG2 (or keep on with scimitars, there are some decent ones in Watchers Keep).
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Dec 27, 2013 01:50
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I'm starting a Shadowdancer->Cleric to run all the way through from BG to TOB. Any advice on when to dual? It's not really going to be a rogue at all except for the stealth skills so I can be a max level cleric who can also pop hide in plain sight in the middle of a battle.
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Dec 27, 2013 05:13
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As you say, it's the skills that determine when you go dual. SDs have slightly less progression every level, but iirc the way it works is "hide chance = skill # * .5". I don't know if the two stealth skills are cumulative or separate, and there are various light modifiers. Dunno if being seen decreases your chances. But focusing exclusively on stealth you'll definitely be fine by 8 or 9, I'd say. Boots of stealth give you an effective character level, too. Hold out for a backstab multiplier if you're going with clubs or staves.
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Dec 27, 2013 05:43
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Smashing Link posted:I'm starting a Shadowdancer->Cleric to run all the way through from BG to TOB. Any advice on when to dual? It's not really going to be a rogue at all except for the stealth skills so I can be a max level cleric who can also pop hide in plain sight in the middle of a battle. You could also just cast Sanctuary a lot. v  v
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Dec 27, 2013 06:07
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I just pickpocketed the matron mother of the Drow city for like ~5,000+ gold worth of stuff 
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Dec 27, 2013 06:20
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It has been an eternity since I've tooled around in BG1, is it possible to kill Firebeard in the EE without aggroing all of Candlekeep? I seem to recall it being doable in BG1, but maybe the EE cracked down on my lust for murdering old people.
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Dec 27, 2013 07:43
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People in BG1 either need to pay more than 1 GP for these short swords or stop bitching about an iron shortage. Never beat the game as a kid, I'm in the Candlekeep forests now. Is it a good idea to take your character forward to BG2 if they're good or will you be OP?
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Dec 27, 2013 07:48
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Mickey McKey posted:I just pickpocketed the matron mother of the Drow city for like ~5,000+ gold worth of stuff You have the option to kill her later on anyway. I'd be interested to know if she still drops the gold and such if you'd already pickpocketed her of it.
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Dec 27, 2013 07:55
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fong posted:You have the option to kill her later on anyway. I'd be interested to know if she still drops the gold and such if you'd already pickpocketed her of it. I will keep you posted on my progress, then 
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Dec 27, 2013 08:21
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ashgromnies posted:People in BG1 either need to pay more than 1 GP for these short swords or stop bitching about an iron shortage. Never beat the game as a kid, I'm in the Candlekeep forests now. Is it a good idea to take your character forward to BG2 if they're good or will you be OP? You won't be OP. You will have an early game advantage that becomes increasingly marginal. A completionist run will net you about 270k exp total. Past level 9, a Paladin needs 300k for every single level up. You see how it becomes irrelevant in the long run.
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Dec 27, 2013 08:28
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Captain Oblivious posted:You won't be OP. You will have an early game advantage that becomes increasingly marginal. A completionist run will net you about 270k exp total. Past level 9, a Paladin needs 300k for every single level up. You see how it becomes irrelevant in the long run. I like to do it more because of the stat tomes you get in BG1. Starting BG2 with 19 (or 20) in your main stats is nice, particularly strength since then you can give that belt to someone else.
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Dec 27, 2013 08:48
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