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Quest For Glory II posted:I think it comes down to Philly and KC, but receiver is clearly a bigger need in Kansas City and Reid personally selected Maclin when most people thought the Eagles would take Knoshown Moreno (they ended up with LeSean McCoy in the 2nd round, a pretty good consolation prize huh?). Here's a question: With the exception of 04 TO has any Reid WR had a huge year?
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Dec 30, 2013 07:39
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Intruder posted:Any chance Philly tags Maclin? That would be a lot of money to pay a WR that has trouble staying on the field. I would be surprised, to say the least.
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Dec 30, 2013 07:44
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Intruder posted:Also is there any reason to take this seriously? The blind scouty and front office type quotes have never been as high on Bridgewater as you'd think, there are a lot of quotes out there calling other guys the top QB prospect and worrying about this trait of Bridgewater or that trait of Bridgewater's and so forth. Bridgewater is an imperfect prospect (in comparison to someone like Luck or even Bradford once he passed his physicals that were basically impossible to nitpick at) and there are quite a lot of dudes in the top quarterback mix, so sure, he has a pretty wide range of ultimate outcomes. It's crazy early in the process and the non-elite quarterback prospect rises and falls can be pretty dramatic even right up to draft day.
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Dec 30, 2013 07:47
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jeffersonlives posted:The blind scouty and front office type quotes have never been as high on Bridgewater as you'd think, there are a lot of quotes out there calling other guys the top QB prospect and worrying about this trait of Bridgewater or that trait of Bridgewater's and so forth. Bridgewater is an imperfect prospect (in comparison to someone like Luck or even Bradford once he passed his physicals that were basically impossible to nitpick at) and there are quite a lot of dudes in the top quarterback mix, so sure, he has a pretty wide range of ultimate outcomes. It's crazy early in the process and the non-elite quarterback prospect rises and falls can be pretty dramatic even right up to draft day. It seems to me if there was a prospect I targeted, it would be in my best interest to leak information showing why he is a terrible prospect.
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Dec 30, 2013 08:05
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Sataere posted:It seems to me if there was a prospect I targeted, it would be in my best interest to leak information showing why he is a terrible prospect. In April, sure, but that's not happening in November and December. Everything's way, way too fluid, nobody smokescreens six months out.
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Dec 30, 2013 08:07
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Nawid posted:Here's a question: With the exception of 04 TO has any Reid WR had a huge year? Well, not really, but Reid didn't need to focus on (deep) passing a lot because his team almost always had three things: excellent running backs, top-tier defenses, and very low turnover rates. If you can win low-scoring games and don't dig holes via turnovers then you can run the other team to the ground. But add a HoF-caliber WR to the mix and sure, he can get huge stats. Of course Reid has all three of those items again in Kansas City, with Alex Smith being arguably the starting QB who is least likely to air it out, so they won't be angling for a Mike Wallace type WR signing. Maclin, if fully recovered from his injuries, could do great things; teams stacking the box versus Charles would leave a lot of room for some impressive YAC.
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Dec 30, 2013 08:21
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Nawid posted:Here's a question: With the exception of 04 TO has any Reid WR had a huge year? Bear in mind that before DeSean Jackson the Eagles ran out players like Reggie Brown, Darnerian McCants, Freddy Mitchell, Todd Pinkston, James Thrash, Billy McMullen, etc. And Eddie Royal and Dexter McCluster are definitely on that level, not DeSean/Maclin's. e: DeSean's played only two 16 game seasons and Maclin only one. They get dinged up. I'm also now reminded that somehow Kevin Curtis had 1,100 yards for us one year. I'm still not sure how that happened. The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 08:45 on Dec 30, 2013 |
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Dec 30, 2013 08:29
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jeffersonlives posted:The blind scouty and front office type quotes have never been as high on Bridgewater as you'd think, there are a lot of quotes out there calling other guys the top QB prospect and worrying about this trait of Bridgewater or that trait of Bridgewater's and so forth. Bridgewater is an imperfect prospect (in comparison to someone like Luck or even Bradford once he passed his physicals that were basically impossible to nitpick at) and there are quite a lot of dudes in the top quarterback mix, so sure, he has a pretty wide range of ultimate outcomes. It's crazy early in the process and the non-elite quarterback prospect rises and falls can be pretty dramatic even right up to draft day. I really don't remember Bradford being at that level, he was closer to an Alex Smith, "SOME QB has to be the #1 pick and you're the best one" type.
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Dec 30, 2013 13:25
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That's not true, Bradford was seen as an elite prospect so much so that St. Louis turned down the entire Browns' draft to pick him.
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Dec 30, 2013 13:35
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Bigass Moth posted:That's not true, Bradford was seen as an elite prospect so much so that St. Louis turned down the entire Browns' draft to pick him. People are getting all revisionist now that the narrative is that he's terrible for not being on pace for 4,000 yards and a 90 rating enough. Especially with all that talent he was throwing at earlier in the season.
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Dec 30, 2013 13:42
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Kim Jong Il posted:I really don't remember Bradford being at that level, he was closer to an Alex Smith, "SOME QB has to be the #1 pick and you're the best one" type. Nah dude, I remember after his pro day every scout and leak was gushing about him and him going #1 was a lock. The line I remember specifically was that of his 60 some odd throws, not a single one touched the ground. The only knock on him was he wasn't a stoic gargoyle in an interview after Oklahoma fell apart his last year.
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Dec 30, 2013 13:55
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FizFashizzle posted:Nah dude, I remember after his pro day every scout and leak was gushing about him and him going #1 was a lock. The line I remember specifically was that of his 60 some odd throws, not a single one touched the ground. People gush at every pro day. Look at last year's crop of QBs as an example. Bradford wasn't a Luck/Manning/Manning prospect for the majority of the scouting process. Maybe when he was first eligible for the draft, but he went back another year with Gresham and got mega injured. A lot of his draft stock was based on potential from his 2008 season.
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Dec 30, 2013 15:39
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He wasn't considered a no-miss franchise player like the Mannings and Luck, but I do remember the general consensus being that he was the best QB prospect to come out since Eli in 2004.
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Dec 30, 2013 15:44
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He was also more of a consensus first overall pick than Cam was.
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Dec 30, 2013 15:48
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The only way Cam wasn't a consensus first overall was due to many issues that had nothing to do with his ability to play football. You can't look me in the eye and say that a 6'5 massive QB with incredible mobility and an accurate cannon wasn't going first overall. Bradford was touted as the best QB since Eli, but so were Matt Ryan, Leinart, Young, Russell, etc. We kind of say that on these forums every year since Eli was the last benchmark QB since Peyton. Now it's Andrew Luck we'll be comparing people to, I suppose.
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Dec 30, 2013 15:54
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Weren't guys like McShay touting Gabbert as 1st overall until right before the draft? I really don't remember Cam being a consensus #1.
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Dec 30, 2013 15:57
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DupaDupa posted:Weren't guys like McShay touting Gabbert as 1st overall until right before the draft? I really don't remember Cam being a consensus #1. Gabbert was the "competition" for Cam since everyone thought it would be Mallett/Cam/Gabbert/maybe Locker sneaking in for the first round QBs. Then there were all those rumors that no QB would be taken first overall and that the Panthers would go between Dareus/Peterson/Green/Miller. Hindsight is great, and I'm pretty sure I didn't want Cam with the first overall since Miller was fantastic, but I doubt many front offices would have thought the same. McShay is also a horrible source to take opinions on where a player should go. I'm pretty sure ESPN makes him hype certain people for story lines.
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Dec 30, 2013 16:02
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From division lead to top 10 draft pick in two weeks, gross. The bad part is that I have no idea who I'd want Detroit to draft, outside the old standby of "gently caress our secondary is terrible". Has Darqueze Dennard's stock risen at all since the OP was written? My dad is a big Michigan State homer and really wants him, and I could see him filling Mayhew's "2nd round skill position player who flames out after two years" draft criterion quite well if his injury history is that big of a question mark.
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Dec 30, 2013 16:02
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C-Euro posted:From division lead to top 10 draft pick in two weeks, gross. Dennard played out of his mind against Ohio State and got a lot of attention. If Sparty stops Hogan in the same way, you could be seeing a top 15 pick for him.
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Dec 30, 2013 16:03
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Doltos posted:Bradford was touted as the best QB since Eli, but so were Matt Ryan, Leinart, Young, Russell, etc. You're just making poo poo up.
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Dec 30, 2013 16:55
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XxGirlKisserxX posted:You're just making poo poo up. http://walterfootball.com/jimmyclausensambradford.php
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Dec 30, 2013 17:01
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Ozu posted:Let's reminisce about Bradford v Clausen write-ups. I mean Walter Football is just too easy. Consider the last paragraph of that article is: quote:So, if Jimmy Clausen is the better prospect, why won't he be the No. 1 pick in the 2010 NFL Draft? For answers, make sure you read the article, Jimmy Clausen is an Alien Wizard. And the first paragraph of that article is: quote:The original title of this article was "Jimmy Clausen Raped My Mother and Killed My Father," but I didn't want Google picking up anything like that and putting it into its search engine. Plus, it's always good to get a South Park reference in. drat alien wizards causing sexual addiction.
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Dec 30, 2013 17:07
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XxGirlKisserxX posted:You're just making poo poo up. Not really. We have certain benchmark QBs to compare prospects to until the next one comes along. In between those benchmarks, it's only logical that someone would say "Bradford is the best QB to come out since Eli" after Russell, Young, and the others failed to live up to their own hype when they came out. We're talking about what we viewed the prospects to be at the time. Bradford in 08 was someone to salivate over. He had a mcl (?) sprain and a shoulder injury that hurt his prospects in 09, but people were saying he was the best QB since Eli when he was coming out. Then they said it about Stafford, then Luck and RG3, and they'll probably be saying it about Winston or Bridgewater, but they'll be comparing those guys to Luck.
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Dec 30, 2013 17:10
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I forgot how terrible WalterFootball is. Also good to see their 2015 mock draft is up!
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Dec 30, 2013 17:11
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They regularly update their mock draft database though! http://walterfootball.com/draftdata.php
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Dec 30, 2013 17:14
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I am really fascinated to know what the Browns will pull off for this draft. Will we trade our future like Washington did or Oakland did to move up 1 or 2 spots and still not get Bridgewater and pass on Clowney to get Manziel? WHO KNOWS? ONLY THE BROWN KNOWS! Whatever the hell a Brown actually is.
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Dec 30, 2013 17:15
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Doltos is kinda right on that, and in addition to that, every year the football world is always looking for "The Next (X)" so you get articles like "Is Logan Thomas the Next Cam Newton???" TFF hated Matt Ryan but that was just us. I still think Bradford has talent and happens to be trapped in a minor league offense with minor league coaching. Russell and Young generated significant excitement. If Vince Young were to come out this year I think it'd be the same story. Let's not revise history.
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Dec 30, 2013 17:19
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Quest For Glory II posted:Doltos is kinda right on that, and in addition to that, every year the football world is always looking for "The Next (X)" so you get articles like "Is Logan Thomas the Next Cam Newton???" Bradford has talent but his contract makes his current situation untenable. Young generated excitement but no one outside of Texas thought he was a great #1 overall pick (the big question that year was Bush v. Williams). There were some clear red flags for Russell that were ignored in favor of his size and arm as well and it's telling that it was the Raiders that took him. I mean that said, there's never going to be a year where zero QBs go in the first round regardless of how good or bad the crop are.
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Dec 30, 2013 17:51
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TheChirurgeon posted:I mean that said, there's never going to be a year where zero QBs go in the first round regardless of how good or bad the crop are. Theres very few years where any skill position player doesn't go in the first. I can only think of one year where there was no WRs taken in the first round. There's always going to be a first round QB because there's always going to be a bad NFL team and a college QB that produces more than anyone else.
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Dec 30, 2013 17:55
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Sam Bradford was definitely a consensus No. 1 overall pick out of Oklahoma, though that did take some time to build in the pre-draft process. The problem with Bradford is that he was not great in college and suffered through long stretches of play where he was not even good. He was also injured, and the injury had not healed. Yet the Rams saw fit to hand him one of the largest contracts in NFL history over much more sure-thing players.
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Dec 30, 2013 18:15
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C-Euro posted:From division lead to top 10 draft pick in two weeks, gross. He won the Thorpe Award and has something like the least pass yards allowed per attempt since Deion.
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Dec 30, 2013 18:17
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TheChirurgeon posted:Young generated excitement but no one outside of Texas thought he was a great #1 overall pick (the big question that year was Bush v. Williams). There were some clear red flags for Russell that were ignored in favor of his size and arm as well and it's telling that it was the Raiders that took him. TFF was not a fan of Russell, but he was a legitimately good college QB with immense physical tools, he wasn't Logan Thomas. I think sometimes this forum projects their dislike or disinterest in prospects to NFL scouts/GMs a little too hard. He would have been a top 10 pick either way. I still would be interested to know how Russell's career would have gone if he wasn't drafted into the most dysfunctional organization in sports (at the time) next to the Isiah Thomas Knicks. Not only was Al Davis at his most loving insane and micromanaging and allowing players to go behind the coach's back, but the head coach was LANE KIFFIN. LANE. KIFFIN. It was the worst place for a QB with a spotty work ethic and trouble maintaining consistent fitness and bulk to go, the absolute worst. e: I'm not saying Russell would have been a pro bowler somewhere else or something, but he went to a place that enabled all of his worst attributes and had absolutely no discipline structure. If one of the coaches disciplined you you could go to Al Davis and get it undone. The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Dec 30, 2013 |
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Dec 30, 2013 18:20
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TFF wasn't a fan of Russell because not even LSU fans thought he was a good QB. I thought he was great because... well... arm cannon. I clap like a giddy school girl when I see a QB put a ball through the uprights from the 50 yard line on their knees.
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Dec 30, 2013 18:26
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LSU fans don't like any of their players though. I remember seeing Reuben Randle start to have some great performances and said "hey this guy's got some potential" to be rebuffed with "No he sucks, he sucks he's terrible." Well okay then. e: Can't wait to hear their opinions on Mettenberger to be honest, since I don't like him as much as others, but he was obviously more talented than Jarrett Lee The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Dec 30, 2013 |
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Dec 30, 2013 18:26
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I didn't read TFF then, but Russell getting drafted was one of the most hopeful moments for me as a Raider fan, and I probably would've been calling for Al to be lynched if he didn't pick him. AAA Dolfan is smart, kill me, you know the drill.
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Dec 30, 2013 18:33
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TheChirurgeon posted:Bradford has talent but his contract makes his current situation untenable. I may just be rewriting history but I don't think the question was Bush vs Williams since Mario going 1st overall was kind of a surprise in general. And not just because VY to the Texans was like 90% of the Texans' fanbase's wet dream either. I remember hearing about the signing the night before and everyone was like "hey o...okay, well that's interesting" and then all the VY/Bush proponents lambasted the poo poo out of it while people who actually knew anything were like "huh, that's not a bad idea potentially".
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Dec 30, 2013 18:33
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It's fun to think that a draft loaded with what looks like future Hall of Famers started with JaMarcus Russell  My team drafted Ted Ginn
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Dec 30, 2013 18:34
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XxGirlKisserxX posted:It's fun to think that a draft loaded with what looks like future Hall of Famers started with JaMarcus Russell e: my team picked Kevin Kolb hehehahahahehah
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Dec 30, 2013 18:36
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XxGirlKisserxX posted:It's fun to think that a draft loaded with what looks like future Hall of Famers started with JaMarcus Russell Ginn's been more productive and relative than Russell, so there's that. In Russell you have a guy who may have very well been the sole reason why rookie contracts were reconstructed a few years back.
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Dec 30, 2013 19:41
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Quest For Glory II posted:LSU fans don't like any of their players though. I remember seeing Reuben Randle start to have some great performances and said "hey this guy's got some potential" to be rebuffed with "No he sucks, he sucks he's terrible." Well okay then. Not sure who that was, but I certainly liked Reuben as a prospect. He has some lovely QB to work with but he always seemed good for a long TD bomb every once in awhile, and him being drafted in the 2nd made sense to me. quote:e: Can't wait to hear their opinions on Mettenberger to be honest, since I don't like him as much as others, but he was obviously more talented than Jarrett Lee I'm actually really, really high on Mettenberger. He won't wow anybody with his speed (unless they are impressed by how slow he is) but his arm strength is legit, his accuracy and QB rating were great this year, and there's nobody on the Tigers I trusted more with the ball on third down. Him being injured sucked from a college standpoint, but if it means being able to draft him at #33 and Clowney at #1, I'd be ecstatic. I see him having a lot of success in the mold of traditional pocket-passers like Brady/Manning/Schaub.
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Dec 30, 2013 20:03
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