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HenessyHero posted:The party members in DA2 can be asked to do a thing that sometimes greatly alters the outcome, at least compared to what's available without them, or sometimes they automatically do it themselves without your consent. Even though it's rare for them chip in without prompt, I like even that since it gives the illusion of greater NPC agency. I would need more convincing to see how DA2 was a step back in this particular area. Except all that sort of thing is still possible, and done, in Origins and other games. In Origins having certain party members can allow you to put them forward for certain jobs, like with the part where you enter the Fade to save Connor, etc. etc. There might not be a wealth of circumstances where you're able to illict an action from them, but they're generally more meaningful than the almost as sparse interjection in 2. And they do so without sacrificing any opportunity for player's to authorize their character's agency. I don't know, it's a fine idea, like I said, I just never felt that it earned it's implementation. Shirkelton fucked around with this message at 08:18 on Dec 27, 2013 |
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Dec 27, 2013 08:16
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Captain Oblivious posted:You can just not pick those ya know. Except that half the choices are those ones, and if you don't choose them then maxing out rivalry, which is the only way it matters, is impossible without a guide. Systems where you need to get it to max to get all the benefits encourage taking options you dislike to get them.
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Dec 27, 2013 08:17
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SgtSteel91 posted:Wasn't the Friend/Rival system about agreeing with the companion's beliefs or ideas (no matter how idiotic or dangerous they are) to be their friend and being a rival with them was sometimes being a better friend by curbing them from those stupid/idiotic ideas? It wasn't always supposed to be the light side/dark side paragon/renegade system like in KOTOR and ME. It was definitely a big improvement over morality and approval, but another big flaw was that hovering around neutral is just about the worst thing you can do and it seems like it would be easy for that to happen with certain characters. The most obvious example I can remember is Fenris, who gets tons of rivalry points when you act even vaguely compassionate towards mages, but friendship points for not being a slaving rear end in a top hat.
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Dec 27, 2013 08:18
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It might be gaming the system but you could, say, not take Anders to a quest where you want to be nice to mages but then take him on a quest with Merrill and get him pissed when you agree with her about Blood Magic and Demon dealing if you want to be his rival. If you want to be Fenris' friend, bring him when you go on a quest dealing with slavers but leave him when dealing with mages. SgtSteel91 fucked around with this message at 08:25 on Dec 27, 2013 |
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Dec 27, 2013 08:21
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KittyEmpress posted:Except that half the choices are those ones, and if you don't choose them then maxing out rivalry, which is the only way it matters, is impossible without a guide. Prettt sure that you only need about 75 percent to get the mechanical benefit. The only party member I found challenging to become rivals with WITHOUT being a cock/using a guide is Isabella. She is surprisingly hard to Rivalry.
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Dec 27, 2013 08:22
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Captain Oblivious posted:Prettt sure that you only need about 75 percent to get the mechanical benefit. The only party member I found challenging to become rivals with WITHOUT being a cock/using a guide is Isabella. She is surprisingly hard to Rivalry. But you're gonna need 100% when it comes to the finale and you want Fenris on your side when you side with the Mages, for example.
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Dec 27, 2013 08:24
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Completely off topic but I hope they bring back duel wielding for warriors. My Warden was a sword and shield guy and my Hawke was a two-handed sworder. Both were Reavers as well. I wanted to keep the trend going but it just seems weird to me if the Inquisitor has to use only either sword shield or two-handed as a warrior. I could make him a rouge but I also want to make him a Reaver as well.
SgtSteel91 fucked around with this message at 09:17 on Dec 27, 2013 |
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Dec 27, 2013 08:29
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I've been saying/wanting that for awhile too. Hopefully DA:I brings it back, but every screenshot and video has showed warriors with huge 2 handers, so my hopes aren't high.
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Dec 27, 2013 08:35
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I just remembered too if anyone is checking BSN (don't check BSN), but apparently Varric can use melee weapons in Inquisition. Still can't equip Bianca on anyone else tho. Proof from D.G. himself SgtSteel91 fucked around with this message at 08:51 on Dec 27, 2013 |
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Dec 27, 2013 08:40
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NWN2 was far worse about having to read a guide to pass influence checks. Overall I don't like there being a difference between bringing or not bringing certain people to an encounter, it only adds an extra annoyance to putting together a working party as the slots are very limited with their traditional tank/healer/damage setup. If a companion isn't physically with you, they should still hear about the actions afterward and react accordingly, and there should not be an "optimal" outcome that the player feels punished when they don't get. (Personally I'd punish them in every possible scenario.)
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Dec 27, 2013 08:44
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Dan Didio posted:Except all that sort of thing is still possible, and done, in Origins and other games. In Origins having certain party members can allow you to put them forward for certain jobs, like with the part where you enter the Fade to save Connor, etc. etc. There might not be a wealth of circumstances where you're able to illict an action from them, but they're generally more meaningful than the almost as sparse interjection in 2. And they do so without sacrificing any opportunity for player's to authorize their character's agency. I'm not following you on this one I'm afraid. It may have done in a very basic manner in previous entries but that doesn't detract from its better and more apparent usage in DA2. All mages you've recruited are available for Connor's fade dream, whether they were in your shore party at the time or not, and that story goes down a very linear path if anyone that's not the warden is chosen. Identical outcomes, even if you send in people as different as Wynne or Morrigan, Jowan or Irving. I'm not sure what the instances you're refering to are that have greater. As well done as the Fort Drakon sequence was, even that was just bypassing combat that you need to do later anyway. Penakoto posted:I've been saying/wanting that for awhile too. At the very least Bioware did recently say that they're aware that it's a very frequently requested re-addition. I think if the development goes well they might try to sneak that back in but they've also mentioned they have no plans for its current implementation. Still not great odds. HenessyHero fucked around with this message at 08:58 on Dec 27, 2013 |
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Dec 27, 2013 08:52
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HenessyHero posted:I'm not following you on this one I'm afraid. It may have done in a very basic manner in previous entries but that doesn't detract from its better and more apparent usage in DA2. All mages you've recruited are available for Connor's fade dream, whether they were in your shore party at the time or not, and that story goes down a very linear path if anyone that's not the warden is chosen. Identical outcomes, even if you send in people as different as Wynne or Morrigan, Jowan or Irving. I'm not sure what the instances you're refering to are that have greater. As well done as the Fort Drakon sequence was, even that was just bypassing combat that you need to do later anyway. Fair enough. I don't think we're really ever going to agree. Maybe I'm forgetting some of the usage of it in DA2 because of how little I enjoyed interacting with most of the party in that game.
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Dec 27, 2013 09:01
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Penakoto posted:Dragon Age Origins system was dumb, you could make your entire party worship you like a god, even if you do things they hated or insulted them, by just giving them a stack of paintings or 200 pounds of precious metal ingots. (I'm only talking about DAO's system exclusively in this post here) Actually that part of the system rules. It provided an alternative to achieve certain outcomes; without those gifts there's more pressure in DAO to always say "the right thing," which sucks. If I wanna recruit Zevran and treat him like poo poo cause he owes me his life I can, but he'll eventually betray me (which also rules). Alternatively, I can buy his loyalty with silver (at diminishing returns) so its still worth it to for him stick around even if I make him shine my boots. About the only thing more I would ask from that would have been slight variation in dialog/tone at the betrayal-point depending on befriended him or mostly buying his influence, but with the same general outcome. And there were some situations in DAO where (even at maxed influence) your companion would still gently caress you up for violating their core beliefs, like destroying Andraste's ashes. However it ALSO owns that some of those situations have very specific circumstances combining appeal + persuasion + personality allowing you to get away with it, beccause you fundamentally changed the character during the game. The mutuality exclusive stuff like Loghain/Alester works too, but it was nice that a lot of big decisions had backdoors and that smaller ones could be cancelled out with gift-giving. Anyway... my whole point is that DAO (again, just talking DAO's system here) was far better off providing those alternatives than if you took them away. I think that's probably why Feastday Gifts/Pranks was one of the first DLCs. It's about giving you more leeway to behave how you want and make up for it some other way.
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Dec 27, 2013 09:23
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We already have a system that gives us leeway to act how we want without weird, nonsensical gift giving. It was called the Friendship/Rivalry system.  Personally I would rather have my party members have actual opinions on what I/we are doing, rather than using a few gifts to butter them up.
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Dec 27, 2013 13:56
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Friendship/Rivalry was a nice idea but it mainly ended up with Followers sticking around even when it was 100% against their own interests. Why does Anders keep helping you even when you've spent the entire game supporting the Templars? I would have vastly preferred the DAO system so that followers would just leave at a certain point if you pissed them off enough, it's not like it ever was hard to stop that from happening if you wanted to (with the possible exception of Zevrans betrayal).
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Dec 27, 2013 14:49
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Dan Didio posted:Fair enough. I don't think we're really ever going to agree. This is going back a few years but I remember a few - Varric bullshits a story to get us past a group of guards without a fight. If Hawke isn't a mage, Bethany/Anders/Merrill demonstrates magic to get Feynriel's father to trust us and they save Hawke from the blood mage hooker's mind control. The last two are situations where I imagine you make through anyway even without those party members.
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Dec 27, 2013 15:45
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I vaguely remember the last one, but I still think those sorts of things can, and did, happen in other games without it having to take up a dialogue option on the dialogue tree.
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Dec 27, 2013 15:58
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Kainser posted:Friendship/Rivalry was a nice idea but it mainly ended up with Followers sticking around even when it was 100% against their own interests. I think that they could just have one big "Influence" bar with Friend/Rival as just flavor. I think that would be the best of both worlds. Like, say, you place actions that "challenge" a character's beliefs as attempts to teach them in Rivalry and actions that completely betray their values as influence loss. Too much of the latter could lead to betrayals. Certain actions (as in, say, destroying the most holy relic of their religion on the advice of some crazy guy) would empty it all at once. Also, they need to make the issues that characters value less one-note. They'd be more like actual people if they cared about things more complicated than "Fenris hates mages/slavers, likes anything that hurts either" or "Anders love mages, hates chantry". Geostomp fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Dec 27, 2013 |
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Dec 27, 2013 16:06
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I heard a rumor that specializations were going to be achievable through quests unlike in DA2 where you can choose whatever whenever. I hope becoming a Reaver is less doing a 'unholy' act like defiling a religious artifact and more like killing a tough boss level High Dragon to get its blood.
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Dec 27, 2013 19:12
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I grabbed the Ultimate edition of Origins. Beat the campaign when the game came out, but I'm looking forward to another run with all the DLC + Awakening, which I initially passed up. Somehow I forgot what type of character I played the first time. I'm one of those weirdos that restarts RPGs five or six times to get a handle on all the classes (more in this case, to check out all the Origin stories), so all of them feel vaguely familiar. I just can't remember for the life of me what I took to the end. It doesn't matter too much as long as the class I pick is fun, but it's sort of amazing that I spent 40 hours or so playing one character and my dumb brain can't recall what it was.
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Dec 27, 2013 19:48
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Corin Tucker's Stalker posted:I grabbed the Ultimate edition of Origins. Beat the campaign when the game came out, but I'm looking forward to another run with all the DLC + Awakening, which I initially passed up. If you were logged into the bioware social network at the time it will actually have kept a record of all your previous characters, so you can have a look there to see what it might have been!
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Dec 28, 2013 22:34
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Geostomp posted:I think that they could just have one big "Influence" bar with Friend/Rival as just flavor. I think that would be the best of both worlds. Like, say, you place actions that "challenge" a character's beliefs as attempts to teach them in Rivalry and actions that completely betray their values as influence loss. Too much of the latter could lead to betrayals. Certain actions (as in, say, destroying the most holy relic of their religion on the advice of some crazy guy) would empty it all at once. So basically the Mass Effect 3 system but for Friends/Rivals? Yeah I could see that.
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Dec 28, 2013 22:41
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Krolm posted:If you were logged into the bioware social network at the time it will actually have kept a record of all your previous characters, so you can have a look there to see what it might have been! Even if you aren't logged in, you can register the game there and it should have a record. It'll have the avatars of the original characters you created too.
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Dec 30, 2013 00:47
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So since there's not really a general thread (that I could find), I'll just ask here. I picked up Dragon Age: Origins in the Steam sale recently. Are there any essential mods/fixes/fan patches for a first time playthrough?
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Dec 30, 2013 22:04
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LyriumLove posted:And:
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Dec 30, 2013 22:11
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Umberger posted:So since there's not really a general thread (that I could find), I'll just ask here. I picked up Dragon Age: Origins in the Steam sale recently. Are there any essential mods/fixes/fan patches for a first time playthrough? If you like Sten theres a mod that adds in the Spec. Point hes missing. People will tell you to get a mod to skip the Fade section, but I think you should do it once at least.
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Dec 30, 2013 23:16
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Umberger posted:So since there's not really a general thread (that I could find), I'll just ask here. I picked up Dragon Age: Origins in the Steam sale recently. Are there any essential mods/fixes/fan patches for a first time playthrough? You might want a respect mod, too, to do things like get rid of Morrigan's points in Shapeshifter  .
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Dec 30, 2013 23:18
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KoB posted:People will tell you to get a mod to skip the Fade section, but I think you should do it once at least. Yeah, skip the fade is a playthrough #2 mod. You gotta know what it's like first  (don't play DA:O twice)I don't actually think there are any critical must-have mods. There are some nice ones which make things easier on you, like respec for your party members, but beyond that? Eh.
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Dec 30, 2013 23:33
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Psion posted:I don't actually think there are any critical must-have mods. There are some nice ones which make things easier on you, like respec for your party members, but beyond that? Eh. Yeah that's really all I was looking for. Quality of life improvement type things. Thanks for the advice, I think I'll just stick with a respec mod and call it good.
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Dec 30, 2013 23:34
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The respec mod and additional spec for Sten are good points. I only started disliking the fade part in repeat playthroughs so you shouldn't need that for a first run, but keep it in mind if you get bored of the fade anyway. There are some combat rebalance mods, but I don't know which one is the best. I think I used Combat Tweaks but I'm not sure - without it, certain warrior specs and archers are even more underwhelming than the other warriors and melee rogues are in comparison to this game's mage supremacy, but the game is perfectly playable in its default unbalanced state. There are also single mods and "fix packs" for specific bugs. Depending on party composition, gear and difficulty, you might not notice them, but I always fixed at least the ranged attack speed bug and the +healing effects received bug - you can read about them (and about workarounds and fix mods) here: http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Bugs_%28Origins%29
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Dec 30, 2013 23:49
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Respec mod and the reduced cool down on stealing mod are the two I liked. Also, what Fade section is it people want to mod out? I've played through three times and no Fade area stuck out as that horrible.
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Dec 30, 2013 23:50
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It's just really boring, tedious, and that vaseline filter really gets on my nerves.
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Dec 30, 2013 23:59
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orcane posted:I think I used Combat Tweaks but I'm not sure - without it, certain warrior specs and archers are even more underwhelming than the other warriors and melee rogues are in comparison to this game's mage supremacy, but the game is perfectly playable in its default unbalanced state. Oh yeah, that's a good point. Mage supremacy so I never really looked into it, but being able to make archer rogues (among other things) viable is worth doing. Reduced cooldown on steal is nice too. Doesn't break the game, does make your life easier. But it's all small stuff like this.
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Dec 30, 2013 23:59
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Cleatcleat posted:Respec mod and the reduced cool down on stealing mod are the two I liked. The one in the mage tower. It's not horrible, it's just somewhat annoying and boring if you replay it - especially if you do the locations in a specific order: If you go to Redcliffe without having cleared the tower, it's really draining having to clear Redcliffe Castle, then the mage tower, then the major fade section before possibly getting another fade section back in Redcliffe, with almost no respite. Even if you only want to clear the tower it can sap the will to play on out of some people: The tower alone is kind of a slog, then having to spend almost as much time working through the fade to finish the tower is really boring. That's before factoring in how the fade's color scheme and architecture in general get very repetitive quickly.
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Dec 31, 2013 00:00
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The game is honestly not hard enough that you need to use any kind of rebalancing mods or anything. Don't be afraid to just play the game. There are no must-have mods and the game plays just fine and any sub-optimal poorly built party combination is some kind of viable as long as you're not playing on nightmare.
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Dec 31, 2013 00:00
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I (and many other people) thought the Fade was cool and clever exactly once and then tired of doing the same binary puzzle solutions over and over again to get stat ups in a sequence that was longer than the area it was housed in.
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Dec 31, 2013 00:01
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checkstock posted:The game is honestly not hard enough that you need to use any kind of rebalancing mods or anything. Don't be afraid to just play the game. There are no must-have mods and the game plays just fine and any sub-optimal poorly built party combination is some kind of viable as long as you're not playing on nightmare. Yeah it's not necessary but some people will notice that their archer PC or Leliana aren't nearly as effective as anyone else they have in the party. It's good to know that you can fix that if it's bothering you. But the same is really true about everything else - you can play through the game with Morrigan as a shapeshifter, and Sten's missing specialization isn't going to break your party. If you think you may have more fun with a mod's fix though, go for it.
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Dec 31, 2013 00:04
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I like the fade. Mainly because of, err well got someone new playing the game so I'll spoiler tag. I got to be a Golem! Come oooon, that was fun. Throwing stones, makin' quakes, clobbering a fool or two. Anyhoo yeah the puzzle things are annoying. DA2 fade section with the two barrel puzzles annoyed me more though.
Cleatcleat fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Dec 31, 2013 |
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Dec 31, 2013 00:05
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Cleatcleat posted:I like the fade. Mainly because of, err well got someone new playing the game so I'll spoiler tag. I got to be a Golem! Come oooon, that was fun. Throwing stones, makin' quakes, clobbering a fool or two. Anyhoo yeah the puzzle things are annoying. DA2 fade section with the two barrel puzzles annoyed me more though. Trying to catch that stupid book bugged me more!
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Dec 31, 2013 00:40
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Umberger posted:Yeah that's really all I was looking for. Quality of life improvement type things. Thanks for the advice, I think I'll just stick with a respec mod and call it good. On top of what other people have said, there's also a party chest for camp that people have liked for convenience, a no helmet mod and a spell effects off mod. The last being that all your sustained abilities look really fancy and/or disgusting and their graphical cues are always on, even in town. They were also bizarrely straining on video cards at the time but modern machines should have no problems handling it nowadays. Some people also liked having the dog as a constant 5th party member and so there's a mod for that though the game isn't really balanced for five. There's a few quick bug fixes but nothing critical. E: Oh yeah, there's also mods for bashing open locked chests that you might find worthwhile. HenessyHero fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Dec 31, 2013 |
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Dec 31, 2013 01:20
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