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Baron von Eevl posted:I know everyone's been tearing the new costume apart, but I just want to say how much better it is than the Avenger's costume in every conceivable way. Captain America's Avengers uniform is one of the best comic to screen translations of a costume they've done so far.  The new one looks as awful as the first film's. 
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Dec 30, 2013 18:54
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Tuxedo Jack posted:Captain America's Avengers uniform is one of the best comic to screen translations of a costume they've done so far. Just because it's a comic-to-screen translation doesn't make it good. The First Avenger costume was great. The Avengers outfit looks like a Rubie's Halloween costume. 
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Dec 30, 2013 19:02
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The MSJ posted:New Cap 2 pics: This ain't bad. Keep the dumb helmet off and show us Chris Evans' mug.
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Dec 30, 2013 19:04
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LesterGroans posted:This ain't bad. Keep the dumb helmet off and show us Chris Evans' mug. It's a really nice take on the Secret Avengers look, I agree. That hairpiece, though. Ouch.
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Dec 30, 2013 19:07
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Timby posted:It's a really nice take on the Secret Avengers look, I agree. That hairpiece, though. Ouch. Yeah, but Evans is pretty loud and proud about needing the piece, so I can't hate on it too much. That being said, I'm hoping it's the angle or something.
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Dec 30, 2013 19:11
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I can hear the nu-metal soundtrack already. 
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Dec 30, 2013 19:20
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Don't be dissing the Avengers suit...Coulson helped design it, you know.
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Dec 30, 2013 19:40
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Timby posted:The Avengers outfit looks like a Rubie's Halloween costume. Sure, but that's what makes it a good costume for The Avengers. Captain America is about as useful in that movie as someone who wears that costume looks like they should be. He's nearly irrelevant in the face of Iron Man, Thor, and the Incredible Hulk, and the man who designed it (diegetically Agent Coulson) primarily cares about Captain America for his symbolic importance ("With all that's happening, all that's going to happen, I think the world needs a little old fashion." - Phil Coulson, The Avengers). So, naturally, he's in something more reminiscent of his USO outfit than something practical.
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Dec 30, 2013 19:43
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His USO outfit was better than the Avengers outfit. THERE!
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Dec 30, 2013 19:50
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Captain America saved a lot of people during the Avengers and stopped Thor from killing Iron Man. I can see how the Avengers outfit is cheesy, but I hate all the straps and general "busy" look of the original.
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Dec 30, 2013 19:53
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jivjov posted:Don't be dissing the Avengers suit...Coulson helped design it, you know. Given that Coulson is an in-universe manifestation of super hero fandom it's only appropriate that the costume he
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Dec 30, 2013 19:55
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Gatts posted:His USO outfit was better than the Avengers outfit. THERE! Well, I can't argue with that either. The USO outfit (and leather jacket/helmet combo) was a nice little nod to the fans of both the traditional 616 and Ultimate uniforms, before they put him in that padded canvas bag for the rest of the movie.
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Dec 30, 2013 20:00
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WickedHate posted:Captain America saved a lot of people during the Avengers and stopped Thor from killing Iron Man. Captain America rescues some people from Chitauri that would have been rescued anyways once Iron Man did the heavy lifting of knocking out the mothership that was controlling the troops or whatever it is that caused them all to collapse (unless there's another rescue scene I'm forgetting), and his sole contribution to the forest fight is inspiring Thor to go Tunguska on a bunch of trees. At one point he tosses Black Widow into the air, in a parallel to him lifting the motorcycle during the USO shows. That's it.
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Dec 30, 2013 20:02
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You know what, why even have a costume? Just throw some underwear on them and let Hemsworth and Evans strut around heroically.
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Dec 30, 2013 20:02
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Sir Kodiak posted:Captain America rescues some people from Chitauri that would have been rescued anyways once Iron Man did the heavy lifting of knocking out the mothership that was controlling the troops or whatever it is that caused them all to collapse (unless there's another rescue scene I'm forgetting), and his sole contribution to the forest fight is inspiring Thor to go Tunguska on a bunch of trees. The bomb would have gone off before Tony destroyed the main ship, and Thor would have kept fighting otherwise if the shockwave didn't provide a moment of clarity.
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Dec 30, 2013 20:04
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A pair of form-fitting underwear and some body paint would be the most comics-accurate costume for many superheroes.WickedHate posted:The bomb would have gone off before Tony destroyed the main ship, and Thor would have kept fighting otherwise if the shockwave didn't provide a moment of clarity. Captain America knocking the bomb out of the Chitauri soldier's hand is the only reason that there was any risk of the bomb actually hurting those people in the first place. The Chitauri are attempting to conquer Earth, they're not going around exterminating random people. If they'd wanted to kill everyone in that crowd they would have just used the many guns they already had pointed at them. Similarly, Captain America blundering around is just the way the forest fight happened to stop. It's not like Thor was going to actually commit murder otherwise.
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Dec 30, 2013 20:23
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Captain America also helps Iron Man restart the helicarrier's engine after Loki's attack. During that process, prevents Iron Man getting chewed up by the engine. He obviously isn't one of the team's heavy hitters, but he does actually do a few things.
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Dec 30, 2013 20:26
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Sir Kodiak posted:Similarly, Captain America blundering around is just the way the forest fight happened to stop. It's not like Thor was going to actually commit murder otherwise. You sure about that? It didn't look like either Tony or Thor were pulling their punches.
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Dec 30, 2013 20:26
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Sir Kodiak posted:
No, the soldier took the bomb out, activated it, and then Steve jumped it and knocked out/killed(?) the soldier with his shield. jivjov posted:You sure about that? It didn't look like either Tony or Thor were pulling their punches. Thor had no possible way of knowing Steve wouldn't be killed either. It also wouldn't be murder from Thor's point of view. He didn't really know what was going on and for all he knew they were Loki's allies. Thor is a-okay with killing the hell out of evil dudes when the need arises. WickedHate fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Dec 30, 2013 |
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Dec 30, 2013 20:31
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Captain America's role is as inspirational leader figure that can command even a God and the God respects in return. The Avengers movie disappoints in a lot of ways such as this because it doesn't actually work hard at developing stuff so much as being a spectacle, which was its point. I also wish we could have seen something out of the Incredible Hulk's Tim Roth's character for a super soldier to demonstrate that at least this dude is a bit more than normal. I wish and hope his value is shown in subsequent movies. Infinity is a recent massive storyline that had nice moments of leadership from Cap in the comics and he commands everything from a massive space armada to Gods and Supermen and manifestations of the Universe against world creating and destroying bad guys and is written nicely.
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Dec 30, 2013 20:33
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jivjov posted:You sure about that? It didn't look like either Tony or Thor were pulling their punches. They weren't pulling their punches until something happened that brought them to their senses. I'm not saying it's strictly impossible (except in a screenwriting sense) that Thor kills Tony. But when he does that by accident, and it's not clear that he was necessary, that's not exactly superheroics on the level of what Iron Man, Thor, and the Hulk accomplish. Ashcans posted:Captain America also helps Iron Man restart the helicarrier's engine after Loki's attack. During that process, prevents Iron Man getting chewed up by the engine. He obviously isn't one of the team's heavy hitters, but he does actually do a few things. He's about as useful as Agent Coulson, Nick Fury, Black Widow, and Hawkeye, none of whom have superpowers and none of whom are members of "The Avengers." That's my basic point, that his presence as a superhero with a distinct costume is more about his symbolic importance than his actual ability, so his costume reflects that Which also fits with him being the only person in the movie who wears a costume. Everyone else is in normal clothes, a uniform, or armor with a little flourish to it. That's what Captain America has in The First Avenger, but there he's most important for his practical skills, not his symbolic presence. WickedHate posted:No, the soldier took the bomb out, activated it, and then Steve jumped it and knocked out/killed(?) the soldier with his shield. I don't contest any of that. I'm saying that it's nonsensical to think that bomb was intended for the innocent people huddled below rather than for the Avengers, who were right outside the window the Chitauri with the bomb was near. Captain America basically just saved himself there.
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Dec 30, 2013 20:38
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The problem with Captain America in the Avengers was that they basically compared him to Black Widow and Hawkeye in his feats. He just seems like a really super well trained guy with some martial arts prowess and acrobatics. All things that Black Widow and Hawkeye do in the film. I hope the next film actually shows beyond him knocking a punching bag off the wall how bad rear end he is in a fight.
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Dec 31, 2013 05:07
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Sir Kodiak posted:I don't contest any of that. I'm saying that it's nonsensical to think that bomb was intended for the innocent people huddled below rather than for the Avengers, who were right outside the window the Chitauri with the bomb was near. Captain America basically just saved himself there. The Chitauri with the bomb was next to the balcony railing looking down at the civilians. The next scene shows him pull out the bomb and activate it when Cap jumps in through the window and throws his shield. If the bomb was intended for the Avengers he probably would have been at the window, and seen Cap coming in. I thought it was pretty obvious they intended to drop the bomb down into the huddled mass of civilians.
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Dec 31, 2013 05:15
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Yeah? And if Indiana Jones had stayed at home, Raiders would have played out exactly the same way. Who gives a poo poo? It was fun.
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Dec 31, 2013 10:44
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I thought what makes Captain America a valuable asset is his tactical and leadership prowess. Everyone else is kind of a lone wolf, but they fight more effectively as a group when CA is calling the shots.
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Dec 31, 2013 11:38
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enraged_camel posted:I thought what makes Captain America a valuable asset is his tactical and leadership prowess. Everyone else is kind of a lone wolf, but they fight more effectively as a group when CA is calling the shots.
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Dec 31, 2013 14:46
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enraged_camel posted:I thought what makes Captain America a valuable asset is his tactical and leadership prowess. Everyone else is kind of a lone wolf, but they fight more effectively as a group when CA is calling the shots. You know that scene in Gladiator where Maximus takes command of the slaves and control of the situation in the Roman coliseum? Basically the slaves are fighting like superheroes, flopping all over the place against bad guys, until Cap takes command and rallies them together using his skill and knowledge to give them a chance.
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Dec 31, 2013 14:49
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Where does Cap gain his tactical genius? From the super solider serum? He never got any tactical training, did he?
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Dec 31, 2013 15:28
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redshirt posted:Where does Cap gain his tactical genius? From the super solider serum? In the comic books he's actually a mutant (like the X-Men) whose ability is omnipresence. He doesn't know he has the ability until the Super Soldier Serum boost it in him though its hinted the entire reason he went to the World Fair that night is because he's ability guided him there. Then, in Issue #112 of The New Captain America its revealed that his second mutant ability is actually a natural immunity to the vacuum of space, which is how he becomes Captain Interstellar for the remainder of the books run, only a further 13 issues, but in those 13 issues he does join The Cloaked War and manages to defeat The Universary using his knowledge of every move he'll make.
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Dec 31, 2013 15:32
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redshirt posted:Where does Cap gain his tactical genius? From the super solider serum? He's always been intelligent and his military training and experience in World War II helps quite a bit.
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Dec 31, 2013 15:36
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PriorMarcus posted:In the comic books he's actually a mutant (like the X-Men) whose ability is omnipresence. He doesn't know he has the ability until the Super Soldier Serum boost it in him though its hinted the entire reason he went to the World Fair that night is because he's ability guided him there. When I say this, keep in mind I'm a huge Star Wars fan, where nothing makes any drat sense. So what I say I say with the deepest affection. Comic books are weird.
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Dec 31, 2013 15:37
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thrawn527 posted:When I say this, keep in mind I'm a huge Star Wars fan, where nothing makes any drat sense. So what I say I say with the deepest affection. That's full of crap. He's joking around. EDIT: Like, did we really miss the loving Captain America movie explaining a lot of this?
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Dec 31, 2013 15:39
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Gatts posted:That's full of crap. He's joking around. Oh. Well, got me.
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Dec 31, 2013 15:40
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thrawn527 posted:Oh. Well, got me. It's okay, the fact anyone believed it proves that you were right - comic books are weird. I wasn't joking about in a mean way, just to see how far the plausibility of nonsense plots could be taken. I'm pretty proud of the villain name though; Universary.
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Dec 31, 2013 15:43
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Gatts posted:That's full of crap. He's joking around. Perhaps I'm forgetting, but I recall he was treated like a joke, like a performer in the talkies. I don't recall him studying advanced military tactics 401.
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Dec 31, 2013 15:52
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redshirt posted:Perhaps I'm forgetting, but I recall he was treated like a joke, like a performer in the talkies. I don't recall him studying advanced military tactics 401. What about the part where he goes behind enemy lines, rescues the soldiers, then the ACTION MONTAGE starts where he leads the men and military to success against Hydra? Compared to guys and heroes who are used to being off on their own, the Captain has military experience and has commanded units. He knows how to lead and use his assets and pull them together and whatnot. He's got experience in strategy and tactics. Gatts fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Dec 31, 2013 |
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Dec 31, 2013 15:54
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Gatts posted:What about the part where he goes behind enemy lines, rescues the soldiers, then the ACTION MONTAGE starts where he leads the men and military to success against Hydra? He's never shown to be leading them, just to be part of a squad - the implication is actually that Tommy Lee Jones is the one doing all of the tactical thinking and planning. The only hint in the film we actually get that Captain America is naturally inclined to strategy is when he accurate recalls the locations of the Hydra bases from a quick glance at a map but seeing as photographic memory is a common place ability in protagonist these days it doesn't come across on-screen as an especially impressive ability.
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Dec 31, 2013 15:59
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redshirt posted:Where does Cap gain his tactical genius? From the super solider serum? There's that whole montage in Captain America where he spends WWII leading his special ops team on missions, so I think you can assume he's an experienced commander by the time Avengers rolls around.
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Dec 31, 2013 16:00
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PriorMarcus posted:He's never shown to be leading them, just to be part of a squad - the implication is actually that Tommy Lee Jones is the one doing all of the tactical thinking and planning. No, actually that is a good point. I guess the movies didn't convey his prowess very well. It does make sense that while he can lead a unit the warfare strategy comes from command. And this does fit his role in the comics in his book. He's sent on missions from command at many times and executes them. In the Avengers comics is where he's shown to have a lot of capability at strategy and tactics, like the aforementioned Infinity and a whole slew of them, because he's their leader. Gatts fucked around with this message at 16:05 on Dec 31, 2013 |
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Dec 31, 2013 16:02
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Gatts posted:No, actually that is a good point. I guess the movies didn't convey his prowess very well. It does make sense that while he can lead a unit the warfare strategy comes from command. That aside he's still the most qualified of the Avengers to give strategic advice, so it's all good. If anything Captain America suffers in the Avengers not because he's shown to be under powered but because Black Widow and Hawk Eye are shown to be over powered.
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Dec 31, 2013 16:05
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