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Psion posted:The only supporting character Weber did anything interesting with died as the Honor-surrogate when he chickened out of killing her, so, yeah pretty much. Took me like 30 seconds to remember Daniel's chief engineer. Pasternack, right? There's a doctor near where I live who shares the name which was kind of neat. I liked it when Daniel was like "C'mon Pasternack, why are you even still here, you're rich now from all the price money we've been pulling in." "My wife and kids are so annoying and living on that farm they made me buy is boring, I'd rather keep doing what I'm good at." Which is being dour and baby sitting the engine room. I don't know if he's relevant, but I do remember that he never picks up the sort of hero worship for Daniel/Adele that a lot of the crew seem to get, which at least makes him distinct. He knows he's good at what he does, he knows Daniel is good, he knows they can trust each other not to gently caress it up, probably. Generally I'm loving terrible with remembering names of characters, but I couldn't even give you a rough outline of a lot of side characters in the Honor books Miss-Bomarc posted:And then there's the part where Tovera fucks a dinosaur And everyone else was rightfully disgusted 
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Dec 20, 2013 16:59
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Sojourn posted:I know this is from a page ago but I recently found a couple books that were OK. Some of the political stuff was a little over the top (though I think it was on purpose), but if you just want a fun book with explosions they aren't too bad. Definitely agree with you, both of those books are really fun. Half of Poor Man's Fight is a god drat slaughterhouse.
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Dec 21, 2013 03:55
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Fallom posted:Definitely agree with you, both of those books are really fun. Half of Poor Man's Fight is a god drat slaughterhouse. The ending is amazingly fun. The way he brings the pirate recruit and the main character together (by turning the recruit into a loot piņata) had me cackling for a bit after I reread the paragraph a couple times to make sure that he'd just done what I thought he'd done.
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Dec 21, 2013 06:40
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Sojourn posted:Both books are fun, but definitely not literature by any stretch of the imagination. Poor Man's Fight is (in my opinion) the better of the two just because the action ramps up as the book goes along instead of starting off strong and just kinda turning meh like Terms of Enlistment does. I thought Poor Man's Fight was just kind of okay. As with so many scifi books and movies, it read like a novelization of someone's old MegaTraveller game; basically, Dragonlance in space. I understand the satirical intent of the setup for the main character, but the whole thing was taken to such an extreme that it just killed the impact for me. And the way they kept coming back to it...having people go "oh, hey, you seem way too smart to be just a grunt marine. Why is a smart person like you stuck as a grunt marine? Oh, you're in this awful situation? That's too bad, you're such a smart person. Oh well, good luck being a grunt marine, I guess" seemed like the author being unwilling to let the idea stand on its own. Also, the secondary character... was a complete waste of space. I'm not as amused by fuckyou moments as other people seem to be, and so it just left me flat. You made me read all those pages about someone who turns out to be a mook? Maybe you could have spent that time and effort on someone who the main character met and interacted with, so that I actually gave a poo poo when they got blown up by the pirate cruiser, instead of just saying "oh, a bunch of one-dimensional rear end in a top hat characters died instantly AGAIN"
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Dec 21, 2013 07:38
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Just started reading the 'In her name' series. "The Terran survey ship Aurora makes a startling discovery in an uncharted star system: two planets inhabited by an advanced, and decidedly unfriendly, non-human civilization. Disabled by gigantic alien warships before it can escape, the Aurora is boarded by nightmarish blue-skinned warriors with claws and fangs who slaughter the crew in ritual combat using primitive weapons. The sole survivor, Midshipman Ichiro Sato, is returned to Earth as a messenger bearing a device that warns of an impending attack. " http://www.amazon.co.uk/First-Conta...e+first+contact Anyone else read it?
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Dec 21, 2013 23:50
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Vanilla posted:Just started reading the 'In her name' series. Think i read the first three some time ago, definately remember it getting wierd honour stuff plus alien sex with some ok plotlines thrown in but never followed through with all of the series. 
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Dec 22, 2013 01:09
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Vanilla posted:Just started reading the 'In her name' series. For the price of free on U.S. Amazon, I'm happy to give it a shot!
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Dec 22, 2013 03:53
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Miss-Bomarc posted:And then there's the part where Tovera fucks a dinosaur Do elaborate.
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Dec 22, 2013 03:56
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It's about that straightforward. Don't worry, we are not treated to details (in the RCN series, Drake is being remarkably sparing in his depictions of sex. No enormous dicks or fingerbanging.)
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Dec 22, 2013 06:06
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Vanilla posted:Just started reading the 'In her name' series. There's a shift in quality. The first trilogy, which you're referencing here, I liked, to the second trilogy which I didn't. By the end of the second trilogy (which may have been written first but takes place chronologically second) I was pretty much done and never went on with the other books. In essence the Ichiro Sato books are pretty much straight up military SF, which I'm a fan of. The second trilogy set decades (or centuries? I forget) later and about Raza is more of a science fantasy heroic epic kind of thing that just doesn't work for me.
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Dec 22, 2013 06:12
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Hedrigall posted:Do elaborate. It's just strongly implied that she hooks up with some weird alien lizard-man who is also a bodyguard/assassin. The protagonist already thinks Tovera is barely human so he's merely more disgusted than usual, her direct boss is disgusted by any kind of biology according to herself. I'm not sure any other character hears of it/catches on, but it's been too long. I was honestly more surprised to have a sapient alien character show up in the RCN book. I guess him and Tovera connected on some "being a violent sociopath is awesome" level? It's basically just a couple throwaway lines to remind us that Tovera is hosed up. I think, and forgive me if I misremember, this was at a point in the series where the protagonists occasionally thought to themselves "Huh, that facial expression almost looks genuine, maybe if you try and fake being normal enough you kind of become a more normal person?" And then "Oh wait, Tovera is still a freak." quote:Adele wasn't sure whether Tovera actually had a sense of humor or if she made jokes in the same way that she acted as though she had morals: by analyzing jokes that normal people told and reproducing their elements in workmanlike fashion. "Tovera is terrible at being a normal human being" is kind of a running theme. No one actually likes Tovera. Except perhaps Hogg (the protagonist's manservant/loyal thug) because he understands her devotion to Adele at least and appreciates that Tovera is really good at murdering people, which is useful. And since Hogg also has no problem garotting people with fishing wire if it comes down to it, a second crazy person to protect Adele and by extension his master doesn't go amiss! Daniel only tolerates her because she's with Adele and Adele only lets her tag along so she isn't running loose and to remind herself not to become too much of a socially incompetent shut-in/too detached about killing people. For her part, Tovera follows around Adele because she thinks Adele is just as good at being a killer while also being kind of alright at faking being normal, and Tovera wants to learn to fake being normal. This isn't an interpretation Adele is necessarily happy with, but does not usually argue. Again, I may be misremembering these things in details but at least I can kind of talk about it by memory as opposed to the cast around Honor Harrington  Psykmoe fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Dec 22, 2013 |
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Dec 22, 2013 15:59
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Just a tip that the first 6 books of Drake's RCN series are freely and legally available (see the When the Tide Rises)!
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Dec 22, 2013 16:07
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Psykmoe posted:It's basically just a couple throwaway lines to remind us that Tovera is hosed up. quote:For her part, Tovera follows around Adele because she thinks Adele is just as good at being a killer while also being kind of alright at faking being normal, and Tovera wants to learn to fake being normal. This isn't an interpretation Adele is necessarily happy with, but does not usually argue. edit: I've seen people describe Adele as "what you would get if Amy from The Big Bang Theory had Sheldon's personality, only you gave her a pistol and said it was okay to shoot people who were wrong about things". Miss-Bomarc fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Dec 25, 2013 |
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Dec 22, 2013 21:37
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I love Alastair Reynolds, but oh boy, he doesn't settle for ten words if a hundred will do. As much as I love his novels, I enjoy his short stories a lot more, because some restrictions do him good. So I just read his novella Troika, which was very good! Recommended!
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Dec 30, 2013 17:35
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Ken MacLeod's Engines of Light series is pretty good. FTL does not exist, aliens DO exist, the universe of is full of sentient asteroids, and the series ends on a pretty harsh note.
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Dec 30, 2013 23:07
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Does he write in haiku form as well?
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Dec 31, 2013 00:18
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It's not exactly space opera, but for Christmas I got the anthology Old Mars, edited by George RR Martin and collecting over a dozen stories that, while written in the modern-day, are set on versions of Mars as imagined in the late 19th/early 20th centuries (breathable atmosphere, ancient civilizations, canals, etc). It's kind of similar in that regards to The Sky People and In the Courts of the Crimson Kings by S. M. Stirling (who actually did a story in this collection, also). I'm only a few stories in but they've been really enjoyable so far, as someone who enjoys this sort of retro work. And so this isn't a completely off-topic post, there are a few stories in it by authors of 'proper' space opera, like Allen Steele and James S. A. Corey.
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Jan 1, 2014 17:49
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Just finished The Forever War and was told Culture was a good series to tackle. I will start with The Player of Games and then go forward chronologically as advised by a poster here.
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Jan 1, 2014 18:25
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You're supposed to start with Consider Phlebas.
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Jan 1, 2014 22:54
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Steakandchips posted:You're supposed to start with Consider Phlebas. No you're not, general consensus is that it's a bad introduction. No reason not to begin with Player of Games.
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Jan 1, 2014 23:10
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Player of Games works well because it gives the reader a decent idea of what the Culture is like through the protagonist's reactions to a similarly alien culture.
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Jan 1, 2014 23:16
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General Battuta posted:No you're not, general consensus is that it's a bad introduction. No reason not to begin with Player of Games. It's a good book and if you plan on continuing with the series (which you normally would after a good first book) I don't see what the problem is supposed to be.
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Jan 1, 2014 23:38
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I can only speak to the consensus here and in the SF/F thread, but in general people feel Phlebas is a lovely introduction a) because it's probably one of the least good Culture books (not the worst, but nowhere near the best and b) because it's a huge tonal departure from the others, a big-screen action-adventure populated with grotesqueries, spectacle, and jerks. The Culture books aren't really a series and with maybe two exceptions there's no real point in worrying about what order you read them in after your first.
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Jan 2, 2014 00:00
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It's also told from the point of view of someone for whom the Culture is an antagonist. I think you get more from Consider Phlebas by reading it after you know the Culture itself better.
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Jan 2, 2014 00:33
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I've just started The Vorkosigan Saga and starting with Falling Free (as recommended by the author).
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Jan 2, 2014 01:14
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Its a lovely feature of the Culture books that they all stand pretty much alone so any starting point is valid, though I'd suggest Surface Detail and The Hydrogen Sonata are probably best saved until last. Player of Games is a great book and very accessible but I started with Excession (seems to be generally considered one of the weaker and less accessible books) and got hooked through that.
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Jan 2, 2014 01:20
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Mister Kingdom posted:I've just started The Vorkosigan Saga and starting with Falling Free (as recommended by the author). The Vorkosigan books make the most sense in (internal) chronological order as opposed to publication order. However, since there aren't actually any Vorkosigans in Falling Free (which is set 200 years or so before the rest of the series), you might want to jump ahead to the paired stories Shards of Honor/Barrayar or The Warrior's Apprentice/The Vor Game. I'd recommend reading Falling Free before Diplomatic Immunity instead. The author recommends starting with Shards of Honor/Barrayar. http://www.goodreads.com/story/show/293438-the-vorkosigan-saga-reading-order-debate-the-chef-recommends
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Jan 2, 2014 06:05
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chimz posted:The Vorkosigan books make the most sense in (internal) chronological order as opposed to publication order. On the other hand, either of those orders works just fine. My personal recommendation would be to stick with internal chronology for the main Miles books (the most important thing, however, is that everything before Memory should be read before Memory, and everything after Memory should be read after Memory), and Do Whatever with the following: Falling Free can be read whenever or skipped altogether (it's a minor work but even minor Bujold is worth reading). Shards of Honor/Barrayar can either be read first or at basically any point (some rather amusing references in the post-Memory books will be missed if one hasn't read these yet). Ethan of Athos (being the side quest of a supporting character) can also be plopped in wherever and whenever (after you've got a few books in and know a little about the setting and stuff). That said, I didn't exactly follow this order myself and I suffered no harm: Started out with The Warrior's Apprentice way back around 1990 or 1991; thought it was a good little bit of fun light space opera; then some years later I randomly came across Mirror Dance in a bookstore and thought, hey, I've read this author before and another good little bit of fun light space opera would be cool right now. Yeeeeah. Then after that I backfilled on the ones that were out at that point in more or less random order (i.e. as I was able to find them (this was before the glorious age of online bookstores)) and kept up with the new ones as they were coming out.
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Jan 2, 2014 07:50
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The Vorkosigan books are fantastic. The latest one focuses on Miles' cousin, who is a constant supporting character in the rest of them, and was quite good as well. An uncomfortable thought occurred to me, though. Did she do that because she's not planning on doing anymore Miles books? I could see how the end of the last one could be considered a natural stopping point for him, if she were so inclined. Has she said anything?
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Jan 2, 2014 15:06
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I don't know, but my personal guess for the next Vorkosigan book, going off of the end of the last book, is that it's going to be about Byerly Vorrutyer.
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Jan 2, 2014 15:31
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Groke posted:the most important thing, however, is that everything before Memory should be read before Memory, and everything after Memory should be read after Memory This really is the most important thing. I read the series in pub order and can totally see reading a lot of the books in lots of orders - but this. I'd actually say it's probably best to read everything after Memory in pub order, moreso than the books before it. Komarr and A Civil Campaign at minimum. Psion fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Jan 2, 2014 |
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Jan 2, 2014 17:03
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chimz posted:The Vorkosigan books make the most sense in (internal) chronological order as opposed to publication order. However, since there aren't actually any Vorkosigans in Falling Free (which is set 200 years or so before the rest of the series), you might want to jump ahead to the paired stories Shards of Honor/Barrayar or The Warrior's Apprentice/The Vor Game. I'd recommend reading Falling Free before Diplomatic Immunity instead. If nothing else, Falling Free will give a feel for the author's style. So far, so good.
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Jan 2, 2014 19:14
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Tanith posted:Player of Games works well because it gives the reader a decent idea of what the Culture is like through the protagonist's reactions to a similarly alien culture. Ummm the point of Consider Phlebas is exactly to turn that idea of having to introduce the Culture before talking about it on its head. It shows you what the Culture is NOT. That's why it is a good place to start.
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Jan 2, 2014 19:56
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EdBlackadder posted:Its a lovely feature of the Culture books that they all stand pretty much alone so any starting point is valid, though I'd suggest Surface Detail and The Hydrogen Sonata are probably best saved until last. Player of Games is a great book and very accessible but I started with Excession (seems to be generally considered one of the weaker and less accessible books) and got hooked through that. I would say Player of Games, followed by Look to Windward, which is the best Culture book.
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Jan 6, 2014 15:13
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Cardiac posted:I would say Player of Games, followed by Look to Windward, which is the best Culture book. Look to Windward kinda follows on from Consider Phlebas though doesn't it? I agree it is the best Culture book though.
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Jan 6, 2014 19:24
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Carrier posted:Look to Windward kinda follows on from Consider Phlebas though doesn't it? I agree it is the best Culture book though. Very indirectly. You need to know there was a big, brutal, galaxy-wide, long war which the Culture won several centuries ago in which some of the protagonists were involved. I think it can be read on its own.
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Jan 7, 2014 07:03
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I started with The Use of Weapons, which I found to be extremely interesting.
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Jan 8, 2014 02:02
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Can we put something in the OP about What Culture Book You Should Read First because I swear we have had this entire discussion at least fifteen times in this thread, and the answer is always "pretty much any of them"
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Jan 9, 2014 06:13
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Because it's not as simple as that. I just finished Use of Weapons and I personally didn't like it as a first book, I wish I'd read Consider or PoG first. You're talking about something very subjective though, the best I could suggest is putting something in the OP describing each book a bit. This is actually said in the OP of the Banks thread but something like UoW is a weird fucker that doesn't progress chronologically and takes a perverse delight in jumping around an individual's past life, which is mostly about said individual's experience working for extremely advanced race. There is lots of metaphor and soul searching, less pew pew and hyper-technology. Some love it as a first book, I assume because they like the writing style and it is certainly layered, but I personally wished I had a firmer grasp on the setting and it's core concepts (such as SC and interventions in the first place) before I read hundreds of pages of allegory. I haven't read them but apparently Consider and then Player of Games are exactly that introduction and in a more recognizable scifi format. Tony Montana fucked around with this message at 12:18 on Jan 14, 2014 |
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Jan 14, 2014 12:12
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Don't read Consider first. If you're going to put something in the OP then the consensus that always comes up in these discussions is that it should be Player of Games.
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Jan 14, 2014 16:37
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