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http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Turn_resolution Magic is before movement, so I'd say where they are currently. edit: beaten like a makarta fighting a doom horror.
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Dec 31, 2013 17:56
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Any ideas on why even though my account was verified I can not log in to the GGS? After I put in my info it just stays on the login screen with out even a error message.
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Dec 31, 2013 18:03
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CrimsonWolf posted:Any ideas on why even though my account was verified I can not log in to the GGS? After I put in my info it just stays on the login screen with out even a error message.
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Dec 31, 2013 22:35
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Heh, I just had my sacred heavy Bandar Log army decapitated by mind burn (my prophetised noble was only MR 8). I thought massed makartas might be a suitable decoy for it (MR 7), but their HP mustn't be high enough as they were totally ignored. What are my options early game (no spells or construction)? Elephants would probably do the trick, but they're pretty expensive just to lug around for that. I don't think atavis/bandars will work, since they have the same MR but lower HP. Later on it's not going to be a problem because I'll have summoned commanders out the wazonga, but it's a pretty crucial weakness early on. tooterfish fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Dec 31, 2013 |
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Dec 31, 2013 23:02
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I made a thing to add a Dwarven faction to the game. They are available in MA and are not quite finished yet; some sprites are still placeholders and they're missing their national summons, spells, items and heroes, but otherwise it's all in. I'd appreciate it if some guys who actually know how Dom works could test it and gimme some feedback, I expect my numbers at least are way off. Download Dothven - Empire of the Underkings 1.11  CURRENT VERSION 1.13 1.13 brings with it another round of bugfixes, the Mechanical Wright becoming a Commander and an across the board reduction in the protection values of Durium equipment. Neruz fucked around with this message at 12:38 on Jan 1, 2014 |
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Dec 31, 2013 23:37
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It's actually quite hard to know balance without the summons & unique items. Also 27 prot is insane. The cap-only mages are a little OP, but you're forced to choose between them and they're all StR. Maybe cut back some of the 100% randoms to just 50%s. Also, looks like you've acidentally given out the old percentage forgebonus in addition to the fixedforgebonus. Edit: Looks like there's something buggy going on with the Bear/Gryphon dudes. Seem to be missing their signature weapons. Also, never ever give recruitable Fear. Fear-stacking is one of the most powerful things in the game. Speleothing fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Jan 1, 2014 |
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Jan 1, 2014 00:21
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tooterfish posted:Heh, I just had my sacred heavy Bandar Log army decapitated by mind burn (my prophetised noble was only MR 8). I thought massed makartas might be a suitable decoy for it (MR 7), but their HP mustn't be high enough as they were totally ignored. Spells will generally target the highest hp units unless they're resisted so hard that they just aren't going to do anything. Elephants would probably work except that they'll break and trample your own dudes unless you're drat careful about positioning them.
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Jan 1, 2014 02:33
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Crusher Constructs work pretty well against stuff like Claws of Cocytos/Infernal Prison.
amuayse fucked around with this message at 10:24 on Jan 1, 2014 |
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Jan 1, 2014 02:46
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dis astranagant posted:Spells will generally target the highest hp units unless they're resisted so hard that they just aren't going to do anything. Elephants would probably work except that they'll break and trample your own dudes unless you're drat careful about positioning them. You can always just sit spell soaking elephants somewhere on the map edge with their commander and tell them to guard so they don't go loving things up.
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Jan 1, 2014 16:51
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How do you deal with a Blood 9 bless on flagellants? Is there a MR check to dodge the damage, or something, or do you just have to lose armies against them no matter what?
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Jan 1, 2014 19:42
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Neruz I will murder an entire game recruiting nothing but their militia. That is how OP your nation is, sorry. More to the point of advice, size 1 is very, very, very, very powerful. You get twice the number of attacks per square, reduce the resource cost of your units, and reduce the defense penalty from incoming attacks by spreading it out among units. Your dwarven militia, for example, have stats that are better than human sized light infantry and are size 1. They will absolutely murder anything in melee, especially if you recruit anything that is not a militia. Good morale, excellent MR, really high protection, units with /awe/ (not to mention reinvig/enc 0 and multiple AP attacks per square). They have more gems than the average for their age, a 100 resource bonus and 200 gold bonus on their capital. There is literally not a thing on this nation that is not broken. I'm just going to stop listing things here because holy poo poo. Edit: Jesus Christ I cannot get over how good these battleragers are. They're probably the single most unstoppable unit I've ever seen. Editx2: I'm not sure how blade mail functions (I don't know the trigger for can be negated by larger beings works), but seriously that's either 12 attacks per square or /54/ attacks per square. Editx3: FIFTY FOUR. Lilli fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Jan 1, 2014 |
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Jan 1, 2014 20:02
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I Love You! posted:How do you deal with a Blood 9 bless on flagellants? Is there a MR check to dodge the damage, or something, or do you just have to lose armies against them no matter what? there's a MR check. Ranged units with above average MR should kill them in droves and even normal MR archers will dish out a lot more damage than they receive unless these are B9S9 flagellants, in which case it's probably a wash, but you should still use archers. Probably don't want to throw mages at them, though
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Jan 1, 2014 20:31
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B9A9 isn't that bad, considering that A is pretty useful for both mages and poor armor sacreds.
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Jan 1, 2014 21:54
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Lilli posted:Neruz I will murder an entire game recruiting nothing but their militia. That is how OP your nation is, sorry. Don't be sorry; this is exactly the kind of feedback I'm after. I am new to Dominions, I do not know how to properly balance things, that's exactly why I posted the mod here. The big thing is I wasn't aware size 1 was actually a good thing; I thought being smaller would be a disadvantage, that not being the case significantly changes things. That being said: Dwarves are supposed to be tougher and more resistant to magic than Humans from a thematic point of view and from the faction standpoint. Would increasing the base gold cost for a 'dwarf' to 20 (from 10) help? I think I'd rather keep their toughness and make their troops more expensive than reduce it significantly. If all else fails I can just upgrade them to size 2 which should help a lot. On Battleragers, if sizeresist really doesn't work then I'll need to change how blademail functions. The multitude of low damage attacks from blademail is supposed to basically be ineffective on enemies of size 3 or greater. Is number of attacks a huge deal? I would have assumed that lots of low damage attacks is worse than one high damage one due to how protection works, but if there's some extra mechanic operating that gives multiple attacks a significant advantage over singular I'll tweak blademail to just be one attack. Thanks for the feedback; keep it coming. Looks like I need to run another across-the-board reduction to stuff.
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Jan 2, 2014 09:43
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Neruz posted:Is number of attacks a huge deal? I would have assumed that lots of low damage attacks is worse than one high damage one due to how protection works, but if there's some extra mechanic operating that gives multiple attacks a significant advantage over singular I'll tweak blademail to just be one attack. When a unit faces more than one attack per round, its Defence against the second attack in the same round is reduced by two, its Defence against the third attack in the same round is reduced by four, and so on and so forth. If the unit is facing a high number of attacks per round, its Defence against a good proportion of those attacks will be so low as to be autohit by those attacks; and even if the attacks are low-damage bouncing off against high armor, with that many attacks, some of them will crit and bypass armor entirely.
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Jan 2, 2014 10:28
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JosephWongKS posted:When a unit faces more than one attack per round, its Defence against the second attack in the same round is reduced by two, its Defence against the third attack in the same round is reduced by four, and so on and so forth. If the unit is facing a high number of attacks per round, its Defence against a good proportion of those attacks will be so low as to be autohit by those attacks; and even if the attacks are low-damage bouncing off against high armor, with that many attacks, some of them will crit and bypass armor entirely. Aha, this is a useful piece of information to know. I shall have to rethink my design choices in a few places then as that is definitely making certain units a lot more powerful than they should be.
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Jan 2, 2014 10:36
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They can be tougher without having twice the hp, better attack/def/str/morale than most elite units on their militia, overpowered as gently caress custom weapons, grossly overkill armor as well as reinvigoration and naturally low or no encumbrance to ignore the drawbacks of it. A size 1 unit that's actually competent in combat needs to be carefully considered since this is a niche that doesn't exist in the base game. You're probably better off just rolling with the dnd standby of a foot shorter by a foot wider equals the same size as everyone else instead of clown-carring every square. Maybe copy Ulm's stats give or take a point here and there instead of whatever giants you copied.
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Jan 2, 2014 10:57
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I copied human stats and tweaked them slightly to try and represent 3'6" beings that are half-stone elemental. That said I fully expected all my initial numbers to be way off, I think I actually landed a lot closer to the mark than I expected to land. The other big mistake I made I see in hindsight is I vastly undervalued stat increases in all cases; an increment of 1 HP (and other stats) is a lot more significant than I assumed. Neruz fucked around with this message at 11:12 on Jan 2, 2014 |
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Jan 2, 2014 11:08
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Anything Ulm can do I can do better. I can do anything better than Ulm.
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Jan 2, 2014 16:33
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LA Ulm is pretty good with foreign recruit mages that only need a lab to build. Also, vampires.
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Jan 2, 2014 16:42
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amuayse posted:LA Ulm is pretty good with foreign recruit mages that only need a lab to build. Also, vampires. Carling doesn't do Hogwarts. But if it did, it'd be a school for Illuminated Ones.
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Jan 2, 2014 17:45
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Neruz, here's some more criticism from a few hours of playing around with your mod: In a nutshell, I think you have to ask yourself if you really want it to be balanced. Your nation is stronger than all vanilla nations by far. It doesn't really matter which aspect of it you consider - every single part is superior to almost everything else in the game. That's fine for a purely thematic nation meant for playing around in single player - and for that purpose it is very fun. But there is such a long way down the power-scale, to anything resembling balance, since every unit - except for the two "experimental weapon" commanders - is highly specialized, highly elite, incredibly inexpensive and (for most of them) widely available. The best example is probably the Ursa Lord, which is recruitable from all mountain provinces with a lab. Ursa Lords have awe 3, fear 8, 28 protection, 67 hp, 3 high-damage attacks, 16 morale and a mapmove of 3 (with forest and mountain survival). Basically, if you start on a mountain province or can take one early, you can switch all of your expansion duties to Ursa Lords, because they are essentially mini super-combatants out of the box, easily able to rout every alive indie with very low risk of afflictions. That's for 70 gold 25 resources out of every mountain province with an 800 gold lab. Labs being expensive doesn't really mean much to this nation, since it has more gold and resources by default and is likely to go with a strong scales build pretender, so the extra cost of labs doesn't really slow down the nation at all. Compare it to Hinnom's Melqart, which gets fear 5, prot 19, 69 hp, 2 high-damage attacks, 15 morale, mapmove 3 (with wasteland survival) for 485 gold and 121 resources. Sure, you can bless the Melqart or have him self-buff later in the game or forge equipment, but it won't be until mid-game - and a significant gem investment - that a Melquart gets close to the performance of one Ursa Lord, let alone 485 gold in Ursa Lords. I haven't even tried giving Ursa Lords forged gear - or using the regular Ursa Knights - because Awe is really really really good when mixed with fear 8. Gryphon Lords and Knights aren't as bad, but are still really, really far from balanced. You could remove all of the special abilities except for trample (like the A1E1 paths, the master smith ability, the siege bonus and so on) and they would still be incredibly powerful. Let's look at the regular troop version to show this: A flying, size 5, 22 AP, 27 protection, 15 MR and morale, 44 HP trampling unit for 65 gold 30 resources, from all mountain provinces (no lab necessary) is very far from the power-curves of other nations. An elephant costs the nation of Bandar Log 100g, 20 resources, for which they get a size 6, 18 AP, 11 protection, 6 MR (!) and 9 morale (!), 64 HP trampler. That can't fly and is an animal. Even just comparing these stats makes the gulf between them clear, but the Gryphon Lords/Knights have a lot more than just that going for them. They also have 2 high-attack okay-damage attacks when their trample isn't enough, but the real winner is their magic, range 16, 14 prec, 25 damage, AoE 1 weapon. They can basically fight any other recruited vanilla unit in the game gold for gold and come out far ahead. And they fly with a mapmove of 4. Even if you up the prices of units like the above with a factor of 5, they'd still be worthwhile. Awe 3 on a gigantic unit with high fear and 28 protection, that can expand on its own, is something I could see a use for at 350 gold and maybe even at 700 gold. The same goes for their basic units, their national summons, their unique site-searching spell (which covers both earth and fire for 1 earth gem), the crazy ranged units - they are all superb units, that all other nations would call their best units if they had access to them - and still among their best even if the cost was much higher. If you want to get anywhere close to balancing this nation against vanilla nations, you will have to make pretty much everything weaker and more fragile as well as a lot more expensive. I haven't even touched on mages yet, but everything I've said about other units goes double for them! The cap-only mages are flat out impossible to balance, with everything you want them to have - Deep Consuls can potentially have S8 out of the box, even if the odds are low, for instance. Artificers have 27 research for 275 gold (StR) and are mundane researchers. Once they're done researching, they are mages with F1A1W1E1 + 350% picks in those same paths and astral. In other words, the odds of getting fantastic combat casters that can utilize cross-path spells are very good. What I'm trying to point out is that I'm not sure you can keep the flavor of your nation if you want to balance it. Right now the nation plays like god-mode Dom4 - you can pick from a long list of really cool, excellent looking units and pretty much be guaranteed that they will flatten the AI in a fun way. There's a lot to discover in your mod - and some of it is really interesting, like the nation specific construction summons or the Earthshaker Cannon. The way I see it, you either keep the nation balanced roughly as it is now, as a fun, play-around-in-single-player mod, or you'll have to tone down everything, up the cost of everything and remove a lot of special abilities, to the point making it a lot less thematic. Either way, I really enjoyed playing around with it as is and you've obviously put a lot of work into it. I hope you can use the feedback. Edit: Mixed up temples and labs in the above, since they are both 800 gold. All the forestrec/mountainrec units require labs, including the non-sacred but H1 wilder shaman. Azram Legion fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Jan 2, 2014 |
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Jan 2, 2014 18:03
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Guys, balance isn't everything. Maybe you're overreacting a li...Azram Legion posted:Ursa Lords have awe 3, fear 8, 28 protection, 67 hp, 3 high-damage attacks, 16 morale and a mapmove of 3 (with forest and mountain survival).  Azram Legion posted:[and the rest] Addendum:
tooterfish fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Jan 2, 2014 |
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Jan 2, 2014 18:20
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How should I counter Ulm's heavy metal legions as LA Atlantis? I'm considering Numbness spam to hold them in place while my troops chop them to bits. The part that kinda stings is that he has archers and I currently don't even have access to indie archers 
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Jan 2, 2014 18:21
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They're low MR. You could try curse of the desert, dessication, or just shadow blasting the poo poo out of them.
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Jan 2, 2014 18:42
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Falling frost spam? I'd imagine that would ruin their day at least.
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Jan 2, 2014 18:46
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-Troika- posted:How should I counter Ulm's heavy metal legions as LA Atlantis? I'm considering Numbness spam to hold them in place while my troops chop them to bits. With your surprisingly awesome sacreds that you took a E9W9S9 bless for, of course! You probably want undead to hold them in place temporarily and make them rack up fatigue, and then drown them on dry land. That said, assuming this isn't a goongame, what's your research?
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Jan 2, 2014 18:56
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Recruit some indie shield-bearers to put in front of your national units to take the arrows for you. Then the blender-that-is-Atlantis can work.
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Jan 2, 2014 19:42
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They will get horribly tired easily. If for some reason he is using mostly infantry instead of just enough to screen for a massive pile of rangers, skelespam will do the trick. If you can put down grip of winter that would help a lot too. If it's a massive ranger pile with a screen, you will need to spam the poo poo out of shadow blast and falling frost to try and hp route before they cut your army to ribbons.
Nuclearmonkee fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Jan 2, 2014 |
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Jan 2, 2014 20:02
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Penguingo posted:With your surprisingly awesome sacreds that you took a E9W9S9 bless for, of course! By pure coincidence, there is a goongame running were I play LA Ulm and Troika plays LA Atlantis. Also in this game, I just attacked him. So I take a mad gamble here and assume he is talking about the same game. He shouldn't worry, though. I didn't plan that far ahead. As long as he keeps routing my lovely "stealth" armies, he should come out on top. Time to retool my army into a more mage-based approach.  vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv Libluini fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Jan 2, 2014 |
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Jan 2, 2014 20:05
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-Troika- posted:The part that kinda stings is that he has archers and I currently don't even have access to indie archers
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Jan 2, 2014 20:22
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-Troika- posted:How should I counter Ulm's heavy metal legions as LA Atlantis? I'm considering Numbness spam to hold them in place while my troops chop them to bits. Darkness and Stygian Rains, if you've got the research.
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Jan 2, 2014 20:29
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Libluini posted:Time to retool my army into a more mage-based approach.
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Jan 2, 2014 20:33
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I know little about Dom other than following some of the LPs, but judging from the OP LA Ermor has been removed? Is that true? It's a shame. I know everyone probably hated them but I don't think there was ever an LP that showed off what they can really do; their reputation means they mostly got killed fast.
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Jan 2, 2014 20:40
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Libluini posted:Time to retool my army into a more mage-based approach. LA Ulm actually has pretty amazing options in this regard. Your priests can of course cast iron blizzard which is the equivalent of adding 30 more xbows to the army per guy. You've also got access to astral and blood mixed communions which are extremely nice. Your unobtrusive fortune tellers can be used as skelespam engines which don't quit, put up relief, or do other neat stuff that's typically harder to do with LA mages. Then you've got the blood guys who can communion up and do fatigue resets with reinvigoration or suicide with hilarious hell power bombs on top of the normal S stuff like soul slay/enslave mind spam. Basically, Ulm doesn't gently caress around once you get the research base established unlike it's generally magic poor predecessors.
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Jan 2, 2014 20:41
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WAMPA_STOMPA posted:I know little about Dom other than following some of the LPs, but judging from the OP LA Ermor has been removed? Is that true? It's a shame. I know everyone probably hated them but I don't think there was ever an LP that showed off what they can really do; their reputation means they mostly got killed fast. LA Ermor was moved to MA, so it co-exists with old MA Ermor now named Scleria. There is a new LA Ermor which is ghost based instead of zombie based. So now MA is ruined instead of LA. Also there was a goon game where Lili was Ermor and everyone had to kill her to win. The goons designed their pretenders to kill each other instead of her and then all died. The End.
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Jan 2, 2014 20:42
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WAMPA_STOMPA posted:I know little about Dom other than following some of the LPs, but judging from the OP LA Ermor has been removed? Is that true? It's a shame. I know everyone probably hated them but I don't think there was ever an LP that showed off what they can really do; their reputation means they mostly got killed fast.
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Jan 2, 2014 20:43
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LA Lemuria literally is MA Ermor; if you read LA Lemuria's backstory they were overrun by the ghosts of MA Ermor's legionaires who promptly took over. It's the same guys just in a different part of the world. The fact that all their dudes are ethereal would probably be a lot better if it wasn't for the fact that by LA everyone and their dog has magic weapons.
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Jan 2, 2014 20:56
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Neruz posted:The fact that all their dudes are ethereal would probably be a lot better if it wasn't for the fact that by LA everyone and their dog has magic weapons. I don't think magic weapons are any more frequent than in the earlier eras. The problem is that most of the Lemurian troops' weapons are MR-negates. So you end up being unable to do any damage. Also Longdead freespawn is a hell of a lot better than Disposessed Spirit freespawn.
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Jan 2, 2014 21:00
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| # ? May 14, 2024 12:57 |
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Neruz posted:I copied human stats and tweaked them slightly to try and represent 3'6" beings that are half-stone elemental. That said I fully expected all my initial numbers to be way off, I think I actually landed a lot closer to the mark than I expected to land. Echoing everything azram said, you could fight every other nation in ma at the same time and still come out on top. Even your crossbowman is batshit op; it fires 2 arrows a turn every turn with 16 prot and 11 prec, for 13g 13r. That's a 300% increase in firepower for a 30% higher cost, without the other advantages. Summons are op too, you've got this thing at 12 gems.  That's invulnerable 100, fear 20 and an aoe2 60 armour negating attack btw. To be fair it's at const9 with an e8 s4 caster. Don't know if it's intentional, but with an e9 caster you get, no joke, 97 size 4 earth elementals for 5 gems, at alt 2. To compare, Agartha just got their own version of this spell for their very own at 2 gems per elemental. Also astral travel is an army teleport spell at thau 9 s5 for 25 gems, you have it at alt 5 e3 for 5 gems with increased range. Your cap also gives 7 gems and so many bonuses, to the normal 5. And your geode spell doesn't work, the summon dissapears before it can give gems. The description makes me think you'll get 31+ gems per casting for 2e, which would break things badly. It's a very nice mod aside from the balance issues though, so keep at it! Also we should really do a dwarves versus all the others ma game, it would be funny.
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Jan 2, 2014 21:19
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