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Evil Sagan posted:So at the risk of opening a can of worms, does that mean you could theoretically make a fully 3D wad for gzdoom? There's 3D floor objects, and slopes, and similar stuff you can use, but it doesn't get as good as like building in Quake.
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Jan 2, 2014 20:42
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Are there any notable Strife-like, open-world RPG wads with NPCs and the like, besides Serpent Resurrection?
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Jan 2, 2014 20:53
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I don't think you can do true over/under even in Gzdoom. The doom map format itself really doesn't support true 3D (it's just a big 2D drawing). I always liked the different ways people found to simulate over/under though. Like in Hexen they had silent teleporters that would warp you to different parts as you went up what looked like a spiral staircase. Other tricks were super fast lifts that raised the floor up after you passed by.
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Jan 2, 2014 20:54
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:Despite absolutely breaking the game, GZ/Brutal Doom still made the original Doom games fun as hell. I've nearly finished the original four Doom games now with it. Thy Flesh Consumed on UV is loving evil.  Plutonia is annihilating me - particularly MAP07
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Jan 2, 2014 20:55
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quote:He plays games different than you do?! It's possible to have a 'to each his own' attitude and also still recognize and talk about how some things are dumb. Doom has a great rule set and changing it significantly while still playing on maps intended for vanilla is like playing fightey men with chess pieces. It's for ding dongs and babies.
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Jan 2, 2014 20:55
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The nerve!
Good luck, you beautiful bastard.
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mod sassinator posted:I don't think you can do true over/under even in Gzdoom. The doom map format itself really doesn't support true 3D (it's just a big 2D drawing). GZDoom uses extended map formats that work with the 3D objects and stuff. It's basically all hacked together and if you try to load it on any other engine it either crashes or looks like a mess all over a normal map.
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Jan 2, 2014 20:57
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An Enormous Boner posted:like playing fightey men with chess pieces. It's for ding dongs and babies. Hey, BattleChess ruled.
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Jan 2, 2014 21:01
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haveblue posted:Hey, BattleChess ruled. You were still playing chess, so I'll allow it.
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Jan 2, 2014 21:04
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Evil Sagan posted:So at the risk of opening a can of worms, does that mean you could theoretically make a fully 3D wad for gzdoom? mod sassinator posted:I don't think you can do true over/under even in Gzdoom. The doom map format itself really doesn't support true 3D (it's just a big 2D drawing). True room-over-room effects in Doom have existed for a long time thanks to various ports hacking their way into brave new worlds. GZDoom supports 3D floors, and since relatively recently, so does software ZDoom (as long as they're flat). If you want proof of that, try ZDCMP2, the Golden Souls, Putrefier, BGPA... Cat Mattress fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Jan 2, 2014 |
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Jan 2, 2014 21:36
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Ironically, given the fact that it sucks in every other conceivable way, the Anime Mansion map from that stupid Invuled WAD is one of the best implementations of room-over-room that I've ever seen. (you might want to turn your sound down for this) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJ1HOlv8QLc
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Jan 2, 2014 21:47
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This redux of E2M4 is clearly the best example of what GZDoom is capable of  It's quite literally like a windows-95 screensaver given life.
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Jan 2, 2014 21:53
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^^^ drat, that reminds me of SS2, leagues ahead of Doom. I love E2M4 too, I"ll have to play that one.Zedsdeadbaby posted:GZDoom is my go-to port. GZDoom and Brutal Doom, hmmm yes. What? GZDoom doesn't break the game. (barring jump which is just cheating not really breaking, just don't use it) Don't toss that in with Brutal DooM.  Comparing a total conversaion WAD with a sourceport...  Although I should just shutup and not talk about brutal doom, whatever. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Jan 2, 2014 |
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Jan 2, 2014 23:05
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mod sassinator posted:I don't think you can do true over/under even in Gzdoom. The doom map format itself really doesn't support true 3D (it's just a big 2D drawing). You absolutely CAN do over/under in GZDoom, but it won't be compatible with non-GZDoom. Also you have to edit it in a slightly hackish manner, there's no 3D GZDoom Doom Builder AFAIK, so yeah, its not quite the same as 3d levels in quake which are just proper 3d. But you can totally have rooms over rooms. E:FB  Pictured: What black magic is this? But yeah, GZDoom runs on openGL. (It also has a software renderer, but it doesn't support 3D room-on-room!) I guess they could in theory still do the work CPU side and then just batch sprite calls and draw the way DooM vanilla does, but then you're only getting a minor speedup, still doing the heavy lifting on the CPU. If you wanna take full advantage of the GPU, you may as well just render the whole scene in proper 3D. GPUs are plenty comfortable with rendering in 3D, especially at the low level of triangles DooM levels would have, and are going to be even faster than DooM's special case engine because the GPU can do so much in parallel. So purely for performance reasons, they implemented 3D rendering. Then once you're actually rendering in 3D, hey what the hell, may as well add support for room-on-room, since it costs you almost nothing. VVVV I still have the hardest time with E4M2, which pretty much makes me stop right there and switch to something else. I'm getting better now that I realized you can telefrag the cyberdemon though. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Jan 2, 2014 |
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Jan 2, 2014 23:05
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:Thy Flesh Consumed on UV is loving evil. Thy Flesh Consumed on HMP is loving evil. 
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Jan 2, 2014 23:32
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Zaphod42 posted:What? GZDoom doesn't break the game. (barring jump which is just cheating not really breaking, just don't use it) Don't toss that in with Brutal DooM. All sourceports and gameplay mods are literally filth. If you're not busting out the old 486 and firing up v1.666 (keyboard only!) then you can get the hell out of this thread!  Evil Sagan posted:Thy Flesh Consumed on HMP is loving evil. Zaphod42 posted:VVVV I still have the hardest time with E4M2, which pretty much makes me stop right there and switch to something else. I'm getting better now that I realized you can telefrag the cyberdemon though. Really the only problem I've ever had with Episode 4 was that you often end up hurting for ammo by the time you finish the first stage. When you start the second map you tend to have only a few pistol bullets to work with. It's fairly easy to grab an invulnerability sphere in the pit and bum rush your way to the plasma gun, which will make getting through the caves easier. Once you're past that, maneuvering around the stage is way more trivial as you open the pillars. The cyberdemon can only get you if you go up the stairs, but making a charge to open the exit door and then kicking it back to the teleporter in the middle of the stage shouldn't be too damaging. After that, wreck those rear end in a top hat cacos with your new BFG  EDIT: Also this: Fag Boy Jim posted:E4M2 is the single best Doom map of all the vanilla campaigns. It'd be a highlight if it was included in Scythe, or even AV. Mak0rz fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Jan 3, 2014 |
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Jan 3, 2014 00:35
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E4M2 is the single best Doom map of all the vanilla campaigns. It'd be a highlight if it was included in Scythe, or even AV.
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Jan 3, 2014 00:35
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Here's E4M2: Pistol start it, because a) Always Pistol Start, and b) You probably have like 15 health and 9 bullets after E4M1 anyway. Waste absolutely no time in the opening section: grab a shotgun, and get through the window, because if the swarm of cacos across the map reach the starting platform, and start blocking you in, you are completely hosed. The Berserk/Blue Armor secret by the first teleporter are enormously important- however, you might want to save the blue armor/slime soulsphere combo until after you get the key. The key area is tough as nails, because of the barons that spawn behind you. You basically have one chance to get the key/plasma gun, because if you fall into the slime before doing that, you aren't taking down the three barons blocking the key platform with a shotgun and 20 shells. Note that if you get to the area where the three barons come out of, you can actually hit a switch that raises platforms in the central area, making it easier to maneuver. The cave has zero health. You need to know where the cell packs are, because you will need them to take down a swarm of Lost Souls, and a baron. Map knowledge is critical. Once you have the second key, the rest of the map is fairly easy, as long as you know to watch out for the cyberdemon.
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Jan 3, 2014 00:49
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Top Gym Pumper posted:Yeah idk I've been playing with some ridiculous Japanese-made anime class wad for the last few days (because it's loving bananas) and I'm pretty sure it wrecks balance all over the place but I don't actually care because it's not that big of a deal? Couldn't get through the fifth or so map of Back to Saturn X with it but I had fun trying so whatevs. BtSX is cool btw. I'm curious as to what this WAD is, because the idea of anime in Doom is hilarious to me, like that old DBZ WAD.
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Jan 3, 2014 01:50
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I was thinking a Touhou-themed wad with elaborate projectile patterns would actually be pretty awesome if it weren't for the fact that gunning down a bunch of enemies skinned to appear like children falls into competing with Brutal Doom's real-gore sprites for total lack of taste.
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Jan 3, 2014 02:17
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kirbysuperstar posted:I'm curious as to what this WAD is, because the idea of anime in Doom is hilarious to me, like that old DBZ WAD. http://ux.getuploader.com/SgW/download/75/d-radys_v62_fix.zip Click this button to download it.  Comes with a manual that might be worth taking a look at. Each class is pretty different, with particular abilities and weapons that they can use. If you find a store spawner item you can call a guy from Killing Floor to sell you stuff. Look up and down to navigate his menu, bind a key to Store:Enter in the options to make selections. Binding the Strife popup keys will let you bring up a big ammo list. 
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Jan 3, 2014 02:33
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Mak0rz posted:All sourceports and gameplay mods are literally filth. If you're not busting out the old 486 and firing up v1.666 (keyboard only!) then you can get the hell out of this thread! What do you have against Chocolate Doom?
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Jan 3, 2014 02:58
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Jakcson posted:What do you have against Chocolate Doom? It's a sourceport. Sourceports are awful and nobody should ever play them. Aren't you listening? Actually, now that we're talking about Chocolate, I recently downloaded it and set it up for mods that don't play nice in modern source ports (Batman Doom, Cyberdreams, etc). I'm having difficulty setting up the mouse to behave like it does in Zdoom. It's hard to explain, but the motion just seems "floaty." I'm not sure if there's a specific acceleration setting I should use or what, but I've fiddled with it and the sensitivity and I still can't seem to get it right. Is it possible that this is because of Chocolate Doom's framerate lock, therefore making this an issue that won't go away?
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Jan 3, 2014 03:15
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I don't think sourceports are bad, and, in fact, i don't think anyone has argued that they are bad, but you should probably disable free aiming (as opposed to free look), jumping, and enable infinite actor height, since many maps assume those restrictions are in place (e.g. the shootable switch you need to be at a given height to trigger)
Feels Villeneuve fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Jan 3, 2014 |
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Jan 3, 2014 03:17
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Free aiming is only preference, assuming your source port does proper auto aim. It shouldn't affect the actual gameplay.
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Jan 3, 2014 03:36
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It's definitely marginal compared to jumping, yeah. Infinite actor height, on the other hand, can be a big deal in slaughtermaps. (even smaller maps too- I was watching a demo of E4M2 I did, and realized that a bit where I was hemmed in by a swarm of cacos would have been trivial if I had used finite actor height, and just ran under them.)
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Jan 3, 2014 03:38
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Infinite actor height is the default, isn't it?
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Jan 3, 2014 03:42
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Pope Guilty posted:Infinite actor height is the default, isn't it? It's vanilla default, yeah, but it's disabled by default in most modern sourceports.
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Jan 3, 2014 03:54
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Top Gym Pumper posted:http://ux.getuploader.com/SgW/download/75/d-radys_v62_fix.zip This is actually a lot of fun. I love that one class is "totally not Heretic", because the melee weapon is a shovel 
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Jan 3, 2014 04:01
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Is that where you'll always hit them no matter where you aim vertically? E. The actor height thing, I mean.
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Jan 3, 2014 04:01
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:Is that where you'll always hit them no matter where you aim vertically? Actor height is whether or not the object that is the monster is as tall as the sprite or as tall as the world. It affects whether or not you can run under a Cacodemon or over an Imp that's below the ledge you're running off.
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Jan 3, 2014 04:03
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Top Gym Pumper posted:http://ux.getuploader.com/SgW/download/75/d-radys_v62_fix.zip Cheers for that, I'll be sure to give it a whirl later tonight!
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Jan 3, 2014 04:15
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:Is that where you'll always hit them no matter where you aim vertically? I was actually kinda curious as to how one might restore that kind of auto-aiming to certain mods that turn it off. Brutal Doom is a huge offender as far as that is concerned. I'm also not a fan of recoil in that and certain other mods, as it basically just adds artificial difficulty to something that doesn't really need it. I remember an earlier version of BD where the chaingun was pretty much unusable because the recoil had the sights aiming at the ceiling after 2 seconds. edit: Also, Freedoom 0.8 was released yesterday. I just tried playing the Freedoom 0.8 release ("Ultimate DooM" and "DooM II" versions). They're not completely crap like the old 0.8 beta, but they are still a little rough around the edges. Maybe it ought be considered when hosting servers on Zandronum for goons (although different maps should definitely be used; maybe the "Doom The Way id Did" maps). This way everyone can play without having to worry about paying for DooM 1/2. Jakcson fucked around with this message at 06:05 on Jan 3, 2014 |
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Jan 3, 2014 04:36
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I've been playing Marathon recently. It's been a very enjoyable game with some mediocre level design and ohhhhhh. So that's where lovely "SAVE THE INCOMPETENT NPCS" missions originated from. loving BOBs. gently caress you, Leela, telling me I did a lovely job. You don't get to judge my performance in accidentally gunning down BOBs. Stupid AI.
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Jan 3, 2014 05:49
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Pope Guilty posted:Infinite actor height is the default, isn't it? Yeah- if that wasn't clear, I recommend leaving that option enabled.
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Jan 3, 2014 05:52
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:I know it's on the cusp of this thread's subject matter but, after I tragically lost my big box copy more than a decade ago, I finally picked up System Shock 2 for a couple of dollars in the Steam Sale. I am genuinely impressed with how well the game has aged, overall: The lighting is moody, the levels still look decent (perhaps even better than Half-Life, which came out around the same time), and a lot of the textures remain surprisingly sharp. So I installed all the cosmetic stuff on that list, and it looks great... except for the Value-Rep machines. For some reason, they're showing up stark white without textures. I'm assuming it's something to do with SHTUP but I have no idea which model/texture corresponds to that object.
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Jan 3, 2014 06:06
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Yeah, I think I remember that happening to me too. Honestly, I just ignored it. 
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Jan 3, 2014 06:07
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The Colonel posted:I've been playing Marathon recently. It's been a very enjoyable game with some mediocre level design and ohhhhhh. So that's where lovely "SAVE THE INCOMPETENT NPCS" missions originated from. loving BOBs. Funny thing is, it's still inherently superior to many other games that do it because the game doesn't really give a poo poo if you gun 'em down or save 'em. You just go on to the next mission with no problem instead of being forced to do it until you save x+1 dudes. 
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Jan 3, 2014 06:14
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Chinese Tony Danza posted:So I installed all the cosmetic stuff on that list, and it looks great... except for the Value-Rep machines. For some reason, they're showing up stark white without textures. I'm assuming it's something to do with SHTUP but I have no idea which model/texture corresponds to that object. Quoting myself to call myself an idiot. Apparently after some cursory searching, it's because I was looking at the one in the virtual reality area at the beginning of the game and it's SUPPOSED to be stark white. Ignore me, carry on.
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Jan 3, 2014 06:24
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Out of curiosity, is there a way to extract the maps from Ultimate DooM and DooM II so I can use them with Ultimate Freedoom and Freedoom II? edit: Nevermind. I'm just going to use the Doom The Way id Did 1/2 maps. It's probably the easiest way of doing this. The Freedoom maps suck so hard... edit2: And I just confirmed that pretty much any Zandronum mod that works on regular Doom 1/2 IWADs will work on the Freedoom IWADs. Jakcson fucked around with this message at 07:22 on Jan 3, 2014 |
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Jan 3, 2014 06:28
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Zaphod42 posted:... I love E2M4 too... Okay, I'm legitimately not looking to start poo poo or anything, but I have to ask if you're serious. Personally, I consider E2M4 to be the worst map of all official Doom maps. It's just so ugly and nonsensical that I feel like it's some newbie 1994 PWAD somebody hacked into my copy of Ultimate Doom. Like, can you explain what you find good about it? I'm not going to tell you you're stupid and wrong or anything, but I am definitely curious as to what you see in it that I don't.
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Jan 3, 2014 07:07
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