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uglynoodles posted:
 
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Jan 3, 2014 04:33
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One thing I'm still not sure I've wrapped my head around: how are they supposed to have one province be Futureland when civilization falls in the 1960s? Do people come to those meetups in Jetsons chic and pulp sci-fi garb?
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Jan 3, 2014 05:35
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Stultus Maximus posted:The more I think about it the more angry I am that an established unique form of weirdness got co-opted by boring anime nerds. Thanks so much for the stories, Hibiscus, that was fascinating.
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Jan 3, 2014 05:36
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Hibiscus posted:See, you're missing the point. They didn't think that. They completely changed their focus from being about the pre-1960s culture to being about bullshit culture. I don't think you broke them. Once they were on Second Life, they were bound to get infected by anime somehow.
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Jan 3, 2014 06:06
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The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask / Tell > Ask me about growing up with a girl who thinks she's married to anime guys: All Stories Tragically End In Anime
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Jan 3, 2014 06:11
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Super Delegate posted:I checked the last couple pages and I didn't see anyone post them. Someone posted them a while back, but they haven't been put back into the OP for some reason. EDIT: Here they are, or at least a few of them. Comrade Black posted:Uglynoodles, I went to the Wayback Machine to see if they had archived this thread at all to see if your illustrations were salvaged and they were! I uploaded them to imgur. Laocius fucked around with this message at 07:30 on Jan 3, 2014 |
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Jan 3, 2014 07:24
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This thread is boss. I've been following it recently and I don't know anyone on a par with Denise or that crazy Sai Baba woman, but I do know a guy who thinks he's an angel. If I recall correctly, he thought he was a reincarnation of the archangel Michael. He's not a mate, but we have a lot of mutual friends. Angel Guy and Elf Girl I remember one night I was at a houseparty and practically everyone there had a story about Angel Guy. I just wish I could remember all of them. Apparently he's calmed down now, he's married with a couple of kids and has moved towns. Off the top of my head: - He was in a marriage of convenience to a Canadian woman who thought she was an elf. They were living with a friend of mine, who I'll call A. Elf Girl and Angel Boy were pagans, and A lived with them for a bit. One time, she needed to come home and study as she had an exam the next day, and also had to wash her uniform, but Elf Girl got really arsey with her, saying she didn't want A in the house until late because apparently she needed the entire house for some pagan ritual. She couldn't do it while A was there, the house had to be empty, she had to do the ritual inside the house, and she went on and on about how A was insulting her religion and how would she like it if Elf Girl insulted A's religion and blah blah, and when A offered to go somewhere else, Elf Girl said it was too late and she had to wait for another month. A ended up getting kicked out of the house. - Angel Boy claims to have 4 hearts, as a paramedic found out one time. - He has a habit of wandering off to go on 'sidequests', which apparently involve slaying demons. He has also been known to walk around rough areas of my current hometown carrying swords. - He jumped on the burlesque bandwagon when it was a big thing, and bragged about how he was going to a local burlesque night with a redhead on each shoulder. He likes to brag about all the sex he's having. - He was one of those guys who lets his girlfriend shag other women, but not other men because she can get all the D she needs from him, or something. - The first time I met him, it was in our local rock club, now sadly defunct, and I introduced myself as A's friend, and he immediately started yelling at me about how I shouldn't define myself in terms of other people, and he noticed the cuts on my arms from self-harm and had a go at me about that. Needless to say, my first impressions of him were not good. Other people from synagogue There's also this woman (see second paragraph). Luckily she's given all the Nazi poo poo up now and is a radical feminist instead. I did worry at one point that the rabbi was going to find out, as she'd posted pictures of Nazis on her Tumblr and a lot of BDSM stuff. It never got back to him, fortunately. My synagogue is a general weirdness magnet. We've got a woman who claims to have a poo poo ton of illnesses, both physical and mental; a creepy wannabe-Orthodox guy who had a big crush on the aforementioned woman, no social skills, and showed off all his Jewish apps on his iPhone (it's a Reform synagogue, and for some reason he was converting through it rather than converting Orthodox); and we also had a fundie Christian who'd wear headscarves, read the Bible during services, and eventually tried to convert people. Luckily she buggered off after she got found out. Then there was the Orthodox couple who'd been kicked out of loads of synagogues because they wanted to get married, and she was Jewish but he wasn't, and he was claiming to be a Kohen (which is real serious business in Orthodox Judaism, cos there's a lot of rules about Kohanim and who they can marry, etc.) and they'd been found out each time. She made a big point of complimenting me and other women who wore long skirts, and covered her hair despite not even being married. They eventually stopped hanging out with people from our synagogue because we were corrupting them with our disgusting non-religiousness or some such crap, and the rabbi was onto them anyway. Jim Non-synagogue weirdness: I used to go out with a bloke called Jim (it was years ago, when I was about 16-17, so I can get away with naming him), and he was a massive bullshitter - claimed he'd met Cerys Matthews (one of my favourite musicians) and all of derivative Canadian metal band Kittie, and that he knew what was going to happen in all the Harry Potter books, like Voldemort was going to bite Malfoy's head off and McGonagall and Ron Weasley were going to have sex in the sixth book, and that he was psychic. He lived in a kids' home and meeting him was awkward because of it. The relationship didn't last. Also, he was really into stuff like Rotten.com.
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Jan 3, 2014 13:29
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Baofu posted:One thing I'm still not sure I've wrapped my head around: how are they supposed to have one province be Futureland when civilization falls in the 1960s? Do people come to those meetups in Jetsons chic and pulp sci-fi garb? Initially it was inspired by pulp sci-fi but for the longest time, no one could agree on what Novarians actually wore, and usually didn't try to dress Novarian. There was this big argument on the Aphrodite Cocktail Bar at one point about whether Novarians ever dyed their hair unnatural colors (they decided that they didn't). Somewhere along the way, it was decided that Novarians dressed like EGL, and that seeped into the rest of them until they're all wearing EGL. Well, actually, I'm not sure WHAT they wear offline. They're no longer in Second Life. It's possible everyone is still wearing their old pre-1960s wardrobes. Hibiscus fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Jan 3, 2014 |
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Jan 3, 2014 15:30
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I googled EGL and it turns out that every loving girl who wears lolita dresses always poses for photos with her toes facing inward. To look like a
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Jan 3, 2014 16:35
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Stultus Maximus posted:The more I think about it the more angry I am that an established unique form of weirdness got co-opted by boring anime nerds. Ditto, it's quite a shame, but I bet the old-school is still around in some form. Maybe the exodus was sort of like removing a cancer to them. Corridor posted:I googled EGL and it turns out that every loving girl who wears lolita dresses always poses for photos with her toes facing inward. To look like a Okay, that coupled with the timeline of everything else makes me think I knew one of these people in college. The way she acted in general synched up more with the old stuff and gradually went the other way like a year in (around 2005~2006) and now she does a lot of lolita stuff. Might be a coincidence, and I don't know enough to really tell any stories, but she seemed alright asides from all that. I think her roommate was into it too, but not into the new stuff and I think they eventually had a major falling out 
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Jan 3, 2014 16:48
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Brightman posted:Ditto, it's quite a shame, but I bet the old-school is still around in some form. Maybe the exodus was sort of like removing a cancer to them. Tell us more, if you can. But, in general, I'd really like to contact the old-school Aristasians if they still exist. Everybody's looking for them.
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Jan 3, 2014 16:51
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Oh good lord these people http://daughtersofshiningharmony.com With "new guard" like this, I am not surprised that the old guard would decide to disappear from the internet entirely.
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Jan 3, 2014 17:02
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I found a forum where a bunch of (I guess new school) Aristasians were posting with all the honored Miss and Rayati stuff, answering someone's questions about it, and they seemed pretty nice/polite overall. When the person asked about s*x, (which they censor like that or call 'conjugal intercourse' since the word sex apparently only entered widespread use in the 60s) several of them said they'd never done it or had any desire to, which made me wonder if part of the whole appeal, especially the emphasis on innocence and purity and all that, isn't in some kind of running away from sexuality and whether the "it's totally not sexual" bit might not well be true for some of them.
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Jan 3, 2014 17:04
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Also interestingquote:I also have come to believe that their Operation Bridgehead project was a proven failure. In seeking to distance themselves from the sensationalistic British-tabloid view of Aristasia as a quirky, backward British lesbian separatist BDSM club (untrue, but sadly that’s the image that’s out there), they both abandoned much of what made Aristasia special, as well as England itself. The internet makes you stupid.
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Jan 3, 2014 17:06
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Hibiscus posted:Tell us more, if you can. But, in general, I'd really like to contact the old-school Aristasians if they still exist. Everybody's looking for them. It might have been that she just like wearing odd things and making different outfits, she made a lot of her own clothes, makes the lolita stuff now. I do remember her wearing Victorian stuff and her roommate would wear like 20s/30s clothes, but they'd like do that, have a photo shoot, and that was it. They were art majors, so I thought it was related, actually probably was, but it could've been both. They'd also wear 50s stuff like Poodle Skirts to class sometimes and out to parties. The one had a way about her that gave the vibe of a dominatrix, if that makes sense at all, but as far as I know that wasn't really the case, it was a personality trait kinda thing...funnily enough she was brunette and the other one was blonde...although I don't think they were lovers, just friends, but then again I didn't really look into it and I didn't know them super well. Oh, something else I just remembered, the one time I was in their room with some people they had some stuff around that seemed vaguely pagan/wiccan but were quite insistent that it was something else and definitely not wiccan and then dodged the issue. They also had My Little Pony dolls modified to be the four horses of the apocalypse which was pretty cool since it was a decade ago and that wasn't as much of a thing as it seems to be now. Anyway that's really all I can remember about them, and it seems to add up but it could just be a coincidence and just fashion design students playing dress up. Even if the one who wasn't so keen on the lolita scene was part of the old-school Aristasians, I don't think I have a way to contact her as she doesn't appear to be on Facebook.
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Jan 3, 2014 17:14
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This whole Aristasia thing is absolutely fascinating, thank you so much for sharing Hibiscus. I think the whole story, the culture itself, and the interesting effect of the internet on an established subculture has research/thesis material written all over it - too bad it's way out of my field. 
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Jan 3, 2014 17:35
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Our people has two sexes - both feminine.
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Jan 3, 2014 17:38
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Stultus Maximus posted:Oh good lord these people http://daughtersofshiningharmony.com
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Jan 3, 2014 17:55
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I'd say edit both links out, but if we're dealing with obsessive traffic checkers then the cat's already out of the bag.
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Jan 3, 2014 20:53
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Crazy People posted:Outside Japan, this fundamental goodness expressed by “kawaiisa” is readily understood, for example, in Mexico, where “chibi” images of the Lady of Guadalupe (actually an image of the Great Solar Mother) are hugely popular. Western minds, with their trivializing understanding of cuteness, can tend to see such images as somewhat sacrilegious; but their true meaning is quite the reverse. Those who use these images are devout and sincere. One of the most common inscriptions found with them is “Virgencita, plis cuidarme mucho” (literally “little Virgin, please look after me very much). It is a plea for the tender care of the fundamental mother-child relationship and shows the closeness of the inner spirit of cuteness to the deeply-bonded Herthelan sensibility of amity.
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Jan 4, 2014 01:50
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Okay, don't want to bogart the thread, but there's a pretty sad story I can tell that might interest some of you. Be warned, it's depressing as hell and I'm probably a horrible person for talking about it so soon after it happened. The main reason I'm telling it is that I want to know if I did the right thing here, or if I should have acted differently. I'm pretty much blind socially a lot of the time, so maybe I'm the one at fault. The Atlantean Meditation Master I'm in the OTO. Give me poo poo for it if you want, but I meet a lot of interesting people through it and we have a lot of fun. I've also learned a lot about Hermetic Kabbalah from hanging around these people. I've been initiated twice, and both times were really interesting and poignant. Some of it has helped me get over some of my issues. And also, going to events has helped my social anxiety a lot and got me more used to trusting people. Where I live, we have a regular group of about forty or fifty people. There's a core group of maybe fifteen who show up regularly at events. We have an event every week at the temple we have downtown, where we get together, cook food, eat, and talk about life. These people are simply awesome, and, while they're into the occult, they're nothing like the usual sort you find there. They're all well-rounded and have jobs and families, and sometimes bring their kids to events. It's casual (except for the initiations, obviously) and fun. Yes, we do rituals, but we're not expecting portals to open or demons to pop out. For the most part, it's psychology and self-hypnosis. For example, usually, before we do whatever we're going to do for the meeting, we set up a metronome and do some pranayama (breathing exercises combined with meditation). Now, one day I get an email from the bodymaster (the local leader, basically). He says that we're having a super-important business meeting and everyone needs to attend. I'm edgy about this, because it sounds ominous and something could be wrong. But, since I show up at nearly every meetup (they're in the evenings), I go. There's quite a crowd, as expected. I grab a coke from the fridge, someone pulls out some cake, and we all start eating and talking, waiting for the bodymaster to bust out whatever he wants to talk to us about. Suddenly, the door swings open, and in walks someone I've never seen before. He struts in and says hi. I won't go into detail about his appearance because it was absolutely normal and not weird in any way. He was well-groomed and looked like a normal twenty-something. I usually try to make new people feel welcome, so I go and introduce myself. He says his name is Billa, and that he found us through our website. I don't think he really understood how bizarre it was for him to be there. Let me explain. Our temple is in a really creepy, old building. It's a loft. My ex-fiance used to say that the building looks like "the place where Spiderman fights venom." That's probably accurate. Anyways, it's not a very approachable place, and that's why we have an event monthly at a coffee shop to serve as a point of first contact. It's very, very rare that someone shows up at Temple without coming to the coffee shop first. But lo and behold, Bill had done just that. I explain a little bit about the OTO and how it works. He seems nice, and we hit it off. I was kind of desperate for a younger person to be involved in the Order because most of the people currently in it were ten, if not twenty years older than me. I get his email address and his phone number and decide to keep in touch with him, and hope he comes back. Again, I was excited that there was a younger person. Nothing seemed off about him. He emails me and tells me that if he looked disheveled at the meeting, it was because he had drank a little too much the night before. Happens. He also said he's psychic, and that his powers have foretold that he would meet a loving woman this year who would marry him. Right. I just kind of brushed it off. Sometimes in my line of experience you encounter people with stranger-than-usual beliefs. Normally I just ignore them. No point in arguing. We meet up again and he tells me a bit about this foretold woman. She's going to have long dark hair. Whew, I thought. My hair is blonde. That was a relief because I didn't really want this guy to latch onto me as the fulfillment of this prophecy or whatever. We talk about just normal things. He's in school, studying English, and likes writing fiction. He also has a weird obsession with a quirky town a few miles away from the city we live in, one that's known to have a lot of hippies. Fair enough. Hippies are cool, and it's a nice place. On this meeting, he also confided in me that he has a drinking problem. I don't know a helluva lot about addiction, but I assured him that if we kept hanging out I would do my best to keep in mind that he shouldn't be drinking too much. Really wish I could have kept that promise. A few days later the temple has a party to celebrate Beltane. We do a brief, very active ritual, eat, and then everyone goes off to an afterparty. Bill decides he wants to come. I said, "Sure, see you there." Brrr idiot alert! I should have loving known there'd be drinking at the party, and that he shouldn't be around it. Somehow, I had it in my mind that it would be fine, and he would just not drink. He drank. He didn't talk to me too much, so I didn't really notice how much he was drinking, but later he told me he'd been drunk. He drove home, too. If I had known how much he had drank, I would have offered to drive him, but I was too busy getting creepily hit on by a self-proclaimed chaos magician. A few days later, he asks me to go to the quirky hippie town. I hadn't been in awhile, so I decided to go. Plus, we'd no doubt visit the New Age shop, and I could pick up a thurible (I like burning incense while I read or work on the computer. Burning some now, actually.) So, we went. We get to the New Age store and I find that it's completely taken up by stones, giant tables of them. There's Enya playing (of course) and lots of overpriced candles and spell kits, as well as some really fluffy books. He immediately starts talking about how "The energy in this place is so GOOD." and how he feels rejuvenated just being there. I don't believe in the whole good/bad energy thing, so I make noncommital noises. I wander around looking at incense, and then... He starts talking to the sales lady. She's dressed in flowing garments and is obviously trying really hard to look like a proper witch. He's talking to her like she's a therapist, telling her every little problem in his life. And what is she doing? Selling him stones. Every problem he mentions, she has a stone that will help, most going for a dollar a pop, but there were tons of these stones. I'm immediately hit with a deep feeling of sadness. I know the stones aren't going to fix his problems, and probably so does the lady, but she's still selling them to him. I wanted to say something, but I was afraid he'd freak out. Interlude: What Crowley Did to Wicca The shop was quite small and the shop ladies were watching everyone. I didn't see a thurible I wanted, but I wanted to buy something anyways since everyone expected me to. I saw some Tarot decks. Now, I love Tarot artwork and the kabbalistic symbolism that goes into each card. I tear the shop lady away from prescribing stones and ask her if she has the Thoth Deck. If you don't know, the Thoth Deck was designed by Aleister Crowley, a member of the OTO. Crowley has... an interesting reputation, to say the least. The lady says that they most certainly do not have it, and won't order it for me, either, because it's "bad energy" because of "what Crowley did to Wicca." At this point I really want to slap her. If you know anything at all about the history of the occult, Wicca was founded in the 1950s, several years after Crowley's death. Gerald Gardner knew Crowley and was an OTO member, but it's impossible for Crowley to have "done" anything to Wicca, since Wicca didn't exist during his lifetime. And this woman... was Wiccan? If she was, why didn't she know the basics of the religion's history? It was bizarre and cemented in my mind that the store was horrible, and I never wanted to come back. I should have argued with her about it, but instead I just said, "You know, I'm in Crowley's OTO..." She said something like, "Really? But you seem so nice." I just let it drop. I let a lot of things drop. Spirit Science A few weeks later, Bill calls me and says we absolutely have to meet up at a coffee shop and bring your iPad, too, because he has something very important to show you. I agree, and meet him there. He fiddles with the iPad (the coffee shop has free wifi) and pulls up this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqxmOiT6O5U. And we watch. The whole hour of it, right there in the coffee shop. The entire time, he looks like he's about to urinate on himself from excitement. If you don't want to watch the video, it's an animated story about how a man living today is Thoth reincarnate and tells the story of how Atlantis existed thousands of years ago, was shaped like the Tree of Life, and was regularly invaded by Martians, dealt with meteors through using their psychic powers, and a lot about female and male energy. Hell, it's too complicated to explain. If you really care that much, watch the video. Now, I didn't know why he was showing it to me. With my rose-colored glasses, I hoped he was going to start making fun of it because, well, come on. He didn't, and LIS, he looked totally excited. I had a very sick feeling in my stomach, but there was nothing I could do but watch. Then, thankfully, the coffee shop turns on some music, and the video is no longer audible. I breathe a sigh of relief, but he grabs the iPad and heads for the humidor. In there, I think? Yeah, he drags me into the humidor and we stand there for twenty minutes watching the end of the video. When it's over, I try to break the ice. "So, uh, Bill, do you believe that?" He nods vigorously. Oh poo poo. I try to reason with him. "Bill, it's a great story they're telling, and would make a great movie, but things can be cool without being true." "It's true! They showed the Tree of Life you were talking about - didn't you see that? If they know about Kabbalah, they must know what they're talking about." "Yeah, but they got even that wrong. They added two Sephiroth, one above kether and one below malkuth. The Zohar says..." "I know it's true." "How do you know that?" "Well, I'm psychic, remember? I've been having visions about Atlantis and all the genetic experimentation they did there. I-I think I was Atlantean in a past life, but I'm definitely sure it's all true." At that point, I just let it drop and go grab a hot chocolate. We talk for a little longer about normal things, then he goes home. Two weeks later, I meet with him again, this time to visit a flea market. He doesn't mention Atlantis or anything, and we talk about normal stuff like his classes and fiction writing. Then, this: "I'm a medium." "You're what?" "A medium. I can talk to dead people. I met a woman at <insert spiritualist church> and she recognized me as a medium and awakened my powers." "Alright." "You know your high school sweetheart you mentioned before? The one who died in the car crash?" Oh God. My stomach turned and I wanted to be anywhere else but there. I nodded. "Well, he's with me right now, and he wants to tell you to never drink, smoke, or use illegal substances." I almost cracked up. Said person was an enthusiastic consumer of marijuana, cocaine, cough syrup and DPH when he was alive. I just nodded. I let it drop. The rest of the day was normal. We met up a few more times after that. Occasionally, he would mention slipping up and drinking, and I would chew him out for it. I didn't know anything about alcoholism and I thought getting angry would help. He would promise after each time that it wouldn't happen again. He was in AA and had a sponsor and everything. I thought he was going to be okay ultimately. Remember that girl he thought he'd meet? He has a few more predictions. He predicted I would marry my fiance and have a child, and that he would meet the girl at <insert spiritualist event here>. I didn't have the heart to tell him I never plan to have kids, and didn't want to say anything about the fact the girl refused to materialize at these things. I'm probably forgetting a lot of what else transpired, and as I remember it, I'll post it. He still came to the OTO events and would talk to everyone there about how he was psychic. The Atlantean thing got updated and he told everyone how he was a powerful black magician in the Illuminati in a past life, and his alcoholism was karmic punishment for the human sacrifices he did back then. It made me feel really bad for him because obviously all the OTO people thought he was full of poo poo. At one point we were talking in temple and Thoth came up. Now, Thoth is important in Crowley's system. The entire Egyptian pantheon is. So most of the OTO people knew quite a bit about Thoth and his mythology. They all cringed when he started talking about how Thoth was from Atlantis, an "Ascended Master," and reincarnated as the guy doing the Spirit Science videos. Nobody really argued, though. They let it drop. I don't want to say too much about my own life, but during this time I broke it off with my fiance. Some time later I became involved with another guy. Both of these people were decidedly not-Bill, JSYK. I told him about the break up and the new relationship, but he didn't say too much. I wonder how he figured all that played into his prophecies. One day after a pretty bad bout of binge drinking he calls me and says he wants to turn over a new leaf by joining the OTO, and wouldn't I please sponsor him to become a Minerval initiate of the Order? I say sure. Minerval isn't really a big deal, and in theory anyone who's not an axe murderer should be able to do it. Now, if he'd been asking me to sponsor him for First Degree, I would have said no, flat out. I tell him to come down to temple and we'll do the paperwork. He shows up clutching a deck of animal Tarot cards and a bottle of yellow Gatorade, and starts doing readings for people. I grab some paperwork for him and ask him to fill it out in order to join. He stands up to go to the restroom, and as he walks through the kitchen, he stumbles a bit. My heart sinks, but I tell myself it's probably nothing. A few minutes later he starts filling out the paperwork, and it's illegible. Even his signature isn't straight on the paper. I realize he's drunk. The Gatorade is alcohol. He wanders outside to smoke and I follow him. We have a heart-to-heart about how this behavior has to stop. He keeps saying that things are going to turn around soon, he can feel it, because he's psychic and an old soul. If he could just join the OTO... I tell him I won't sign for him to join the OTO unless he gets sober. And I drive him home, leaving his car at temple. I go home and try to put it out of my mind. I plan to call him in a few days to check out how he's doing. I get a call from him a day later. He's in the ER at a local hospital about to be admitted to the psychiatric ward for detox and because he's feeling suicidal. I agree that this is a good idea, and promise to visit him. A few days later, I do. We talk about his struggle to get sober, his emotional hardships, and how he's going to be admitted to a dormitory-based detox program at the hospital. All seems well, or at least on the mend. When I visit him in those dorms, he starts talking about being a "fallen master" and updates some of his character bio, uh, I mean beliefs. You see, he lived in Spirit Science Atlantis and was a meditation master, able to control matter with his mind through meditation. He was then reincarnated as a powerful illuminati black magician, and sacrificed people, hence the alcoholism as karmic retribution. He kept saying that now that he was in rehab, things were going to get better and he was going to regain his former power. I let it drop. A few weeks later, he asks to meet me again, and I say sure. I head to the hospital and buy some Chinese food for us to eat, thinking it'll be a good time. He never shows up. Then, a few nights later, I get a call from the hospital. It's a doctor, and she says that he's been readmitted to the psychiatric ward and that she has some questions for me. "We're just trying to figure out what's real and what's not." "What's he saying?" "He says you're his girlfriend and you're so close you read each other's minds." poo poo. "Are you sure he didn't mean a friend who's a girl?" "No, we made very sure of that. Are you dating?" "No... we're not." "I see. Thanks." I go down to visit him and set the record straight. He's talking a million miles a minute. He told me that he's doing great, better than he's ever been, and is no longer a "fallen master." No, now he's just a master. He also received a vision that the Archangel Michael was actually the devil. He made a big deal out of telling me this, and said it was my duty as a psychic (somewhere along the line he decided I was psychic, too) to tell everyone in the OTO to stop doing the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram (which invokes Michael, among others) and help him save the world from this menace. At that point, another patient, an elderly black man entered the room. He looked kind of sad and tired. He took a seat with a cup of coffee. Bill greets him enthusiastically and says, "This guy is like family to me. He's native american just like my spirit guides. Since he's family to me, he's family to you, too!" The guy kind of tries to smile, and says, "Do you want a black guy as your family?" to me. I just smile. Bill immediately jumps in there and says, "He's not black! He's Native American like me. I'm one-fourth. That's why I'm so spiritual." The guy lets it drop, and walks out of the room with his coffee. I start trying to get answers about what happened out of Bill, but he's evasive and keeps talking about Michael. He says that the reason he's in the psych ward is that he needs to be there to keep it running smoothly with his master medium Atlantean meditation master powers. In fact, he's keeping the whole hospital running that way. Eventually I suggest he let me talk to the doctors about him. I don't know why I thought this was a good idea, but I basically told him that he should sign a paper saying that they could talk to me. He says: "Of course I'll do that. You're basically my girlfriend." "Bill, don't say that. You know I'm with Stephen." "Keep telling yourself that." I. Let. It. Drop. He signs the paper and I talk to the doctors. I'm not going to say what they said because that's his medical information and it's not really my place. I feel guilty for sharing as much as I have. He apparently improves over the course of a few days, and they let him go back to the dorms. I go to visit him there, a few weeks before Christmas. He greets me enthusiastically and says he has presents for me. I feel pretty lovely because I didn't get him anything. Money is tight for me, and I explain that, and he says it's quite alright, that he just wants to give me gifts. I nod. He gives me $20 and a gigantic rose quartz that probably cost at least $50. I feel really bad about this, but doesn't know what to do, and just kind of... wait for it... lets it drop. Then, he declares that he has yet another present. "I'm going to attune you to reiki level two." I protest and say it's all right, he's given me too much already, he doesn't have to do that, but he insists on it. Great, I think. Now I'm going to have to pretend to do reiki for the duration of this friendship. He instructs me to hold the gigantic rose quartz and close my eyes. I do so. Then he starts dabbing rose oil (well, it smelled like it) on my forehead. I just sit there awkwardly, not knowing what to do. He starts chanting in some kind of language I've never heard before, probably Elvish or something. Finally, it's over. I smile and thank him. "That was a love spell." "Er, what?" What fresh hell is this? "That was a love spell. I'm focusing on you and me, and Stephen. It was love oil and rose quartz is associated with love. Stuff is going to happen now, and it might not be what you think you want, but it's for the highest good." "Cool. I gotta go." I got out of there as fast as I could and didn't look back. I'd been telling my friends about this, and they all said I needed to talk to him, so I drive back over there a few days later. We set in the cafeteria and we talk. I want to tell him that none of this is real and that he's got to free his mind from it if he wants to be healthy, but I just can't do it. That battle is meant to be fought by someone stronger than me. Instead, I brush up on what I know of Wiccan ethics (I'm not Wiccan, but people like him generally listen to that sort of thing). "Bill, it's wrong to do love spells on people, period. Man has the right to love as he will," I say, quoting Crowley. "But it's for the highest good. I know. I'm psychic and a medium." "Be that as it may, I was really uncomfortable when you did that. It's just wrong to misuse your powers like that." "But that's what they're for. It will make all our lives better. You just don't know what you really want right now, and the spell might push things in a direction that you don't think you want, but it's for the best." "The spell isn't going to work, Bill." "As if a spell by an ascended master wouldn't work." He starts drawing on a napkin, just scribbles. He tells me that's an old Atlantean symbol that was his name in his past life. He says something like "Kee-yah," and says that's how it's pronounced. I smile and nod and leave very quickly. When I get home, I text him and say, "I don't think we should hang out anymore." He texts back, "Okay." I ask if he wants the rose quartz back. He says, "It's okay, I just want to focus on the good times and not how you went crazy over Stephen who doesn't love you back." I asked him how he knew Stephen didn't love me. He says, "I'm an intelligent psychic medium. You know that." End. I realize I hosed up probably about twenty times during the course of this story. How would you guys have handled things differently? Please tell me I'm not quite as horrible a person as I actually feel right now.
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Jan 4, 2014 02:03
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You aren't a horrible person. You just don't have boundaries and you don't know what you're doing. I personally would've distanced myself from him around the time of the party. You're virtual strangers -- it's not your job to police his drinking. He drives drunk. He has weird beliefs that involve you. The bottom line is he makes you uncomfortable, and you don't have to hang out with people who make you uncomfortable. It's not fun. Don't do it. Your question probably belongs more in e/n, but I'll save you some time -- you should get therapy. You can stop tangling yourself in crazy.
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Jan 4, 2014 02:20
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i like nice words
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1. Holy poo poo 2. It's hard for me to say what I would have done in your position, since I've never been in a group with any sort of spiritual angle like that? Because a lot of your actions to me seem to stem from a kind of "Respect other people's beliefs even if they're loving ridiculous" type of thing that you clung to even as things got progressively more bizarre, because it's one of those things that we don't really have a social ettiquette for. Like, someone sneezes, you say "Bless you," someone holds the door, you say "Thank you," there's really no rubric for how to act when other people are acting really and pointedly socially weird. 3. I don't really think anything you actually did was that horrible? At all?  Like, I don't see how anything in there was your fault, though I understand feeling a weird undercurrent of guilt even if you didn't actually do anything. You cut him out of your life in a pretty reasonable and unhurtful way, and hopefully he won't continue to pursue you. You put your foot down once things were taken to a level where the obviousness became palpably wrong- I find when you're dealing with a weird person, like everyone in this thread has, the line for "acceptable behavior" is kind of blurred and its difficult to react in a way you would if anyone "normal" had done such and such thing to you. People are good at manipulating this, like people who are extremely rude because they know it will get them what they want. People act so loving weird that it throws people off guard and they are able to get away with extreme poo poo. 4. But holy poo poo though
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Jan 4, 2014 02:21
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Anne Whateley posted:Your question probably belongs more in e/n, but I'll save you some time -- you should get therapy. You can stop tangling yourself in crazy. Yes, this. Life is too short to be the Bear Grylls of horribly dysfunctional people. Get some sane friends. Also, the pissing contests between various 20th century fake religions crack me up to death. I don't know if my favorite is Thelemite vs. Asatru, or the various sects of Satanism against each other, but a good old Thelemite v. Wicca showdown is always hilarious. Oh, you win! Your fake religion is a decade or so older!
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Jan 4, 2014 02:35
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Hibiscus posted:
You did what you thought was right at the time, weighing up the fact that telling him the truth might hurt worse than going along with the lie. I know how it feels and while it sucks, you have to remember that hindsight is 20/20 and you couldn't have known how this was going to spiral steadily out of control. You tried to do your best for him and there's no shame in that, you're not horrible for wanting to help him and you're certainly not horrible for wanting to distance yourself from him now. If he can't understand the dynamics of your relationship, than continuing to see him will only make things worse. No matter what happens next, remember that it is not your fault if things get worse for him. He is a grown man and his decisions, no matter how questionable the logic behind them, are his own. For instance, he knows he has a problem with alcoholism, and yet seems to make no attempt to not drink. Then rather than blaming it on himself for poor willpower and impulse control, blames it on some outside force "Karmic retribution". Ergo, it's not his fault at all that he's an alcoholic, so it's okay that he regularly binges. He needs a reality check, but be honest with yourself, you're not the one to do it. Hell, I know I couldn't do it, when I left Kry I never for a moment let her think I didn't believe all the things she was saying. It was just easier that way. Best thing to do now is get on with your life with Steven, I hope our words and wishes of good fortune help a little. Plus if you ever need to vent we're here to listen, we're pretty good at that I'd say. Good luck! 
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Jan 4, 2014 02:48
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I don't think you did anything wrong, outside of maybe letting things drop a little too often (which isn't something you should be beating yourself up over, but something you should recognize as a personality trait that you may want to address) but I do want to point out the possibility that the hospital may call you again if he's re-admitted and brings you up, and I want you to understand that you absolutely cannot get yourself involved with him, even if something like that happens. If need be, practice saying "yes, I know who you're talking about, but I'm no longer comfortable interacting with him."
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Jan 4, 2014 03:27
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Thank you all for your kind words. I don't feel so bad about it now, and am going to get on with my life.
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Jan 4, 2014 03:32
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AlbieQuirky posted:Life is too short to be the Bear Grylls of horribly dysfunctional people. This needs to be on everyone in this thread's 2014 resolution. Holy poo poo you guys endure some truly  moments.
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Jan 4, 2014 04:53
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There's only one thing I miss about my early teen years, and that's the willingness to buy into the occult and spend my cash freely at Renaissance faires and New Age stores. Nowadays that magic is all gone, and having worked in an aquarium gift shop, I feel kinda silly when someone rambles on about the special healing properties of quartz while I just see cheap little felt baggies full of silicon dioxide, the second most abundant mineral in the Earth's crust. Is my glass-top computer desk sending me good vibes? I did meet a self-proclaimed animal psychic there once, she claimed to receive strong emotional vibes from our sulcata tortoise and referred to it as male several times (it's female). My coworkers were amused but we left her alone. I also met a professional mermaid but that entire fandom doesn't even rank on the weird-o-meter, just normal people who like to dress up in bikinis and fake tails and go take aquatic photo shoots to save the ocean or something.
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Jan 4, 2014 05:10
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That was almost as sad as the Fairy Prince thing.
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Jan 4, 2014 05:56
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Don't worry, he'll be alright. He is an ascended master, after all.
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Jan 4, 2014 06:55
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I'm sorry you had to go through with this but girl you have to not let things drop. Say no and say it loud. You need to get your backbone on. This isn't a matter of spiritual stuff and respecting peoples beliefs. This is a matter of you letting people walk over you and you throwing your hands up in the air and going "Gee guys I don't know, I'm just socially clueless" like some manic pixey dream girl. It's a safety measure that you created so you can walk away mentally from things if you don't like it. You are disassociating yourself from these problems. It got the the point where other people had to tell you that someone pouring (potentially) oil for a mind controlling love spell was a thing that crossed too many boundaries for you to continue hanging out with this person. The reason I am so harsh in my words? This bullshit happened to me and I'm a dude. My story is I a fell for a girl and went along with all of her magic stuff and alternative worlds and just threw up my hands and let it drop. I my ex walk over me, make me do things I didn't want too and really be a major negative point in my life. I knew what I was doing was wrong but I was so painfully alone and shy that I couldn't stand up for my self or call her on any of her and her friends crazy. It took a long while and moving to another province before I realized what I had let transpire and how my life could have been better by learning to say no. I hope that you learn from this and to confront people like Bill and not walk away from your problems or problems they create. I love your stories, they are fantastic and a good look into a interesting sub culture. Thank you for sharing those. I hope it all go well for you.
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Jan 4, 2014 09:42
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TunaSpleen posted:I did meet a self-proclaimed animal psychic there once, she claimed to receive strong emotional vibes from our sulcata tortoise and referred to it as male several times (it's female). My coworkers were amused but we left her alone. I also met a professional mermaid but that entire fandom doesn't even rank on the weird-o-meter, just normal people who like to dress up in bikinis and fake tails and go take aquatic photo shoots to save the ocean or something. Sex and gender aren't the same thing. Who are you to say that tortoise wasn't a "she"?
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Jan 4, 2014 10:14
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The story about the psychic guy is..painfully awkward to read. But I feel a lot of it keeps coming back to the whole "geek social fallacy" stuff (http://www.plausiblydeniable.com/opinion/gsf.html). On top of that is the extra added bit that you see in most, uh, alt-religious/spiritual groups and that is that EVERYONE'S BELIEFS ARE VALID, DON'T BE A HATER. I've hung around some of the communities online for a bit since I was selling relevent stuff on eBay and wanted to market my poo poo better and god drat if people can't claim anything and have people nod along politely. Tolerance is awesome but it has boundaries. Unfortunately laying down these boundaries in these social groups puts you at risk of being chided or excluded for being a "hater".
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Jan 4, 2014 11:05
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Likewise, while wanting to help people is a good thing, letting it consume you will ruin your life very quickly.
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Jan 4, 2014 11:07
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Shbobdb posted:Sex and gender aren't the same thing. Who are you to say that tortoise wasn't a "she"? I'm no tortoise psychologist, but it seemed to me that the limits of her mental faculties involved headbutting anyone who entered her enclosure and eager anticipation of her next salad. Other turtle exhibits with mixed sexes frequently produced fertilized eggs, thus turtles can be safely added to the list of "mostly cis scum."
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Jan 4, 2014 11:09
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Hibiscus posted:I realize I hosed up probably about twenty times during the course of this story. How would you guys have handled things differently? Please tell me I'm not quite as horrible a person as I actually feel right now. Since you asked, I would have not let things drop. I would have argued like it was YouTube until I made the guy so angry that he would never want to see me again. I would do that because by telling me (or you) those things he would be de facto asking for my cooperation in his self-delusion and therefore, since its his self-delusion, he would have control over almost every social interaction from there on out. Getting someone to tolerate or participate in your self-delusions is like the first step of some kind of gaslighting. We've seen it before in this thread, it is a common pattern. People make these elaborate fantasies for themselves in order to deal with difficult situations (sometimes difficult because they've got a lovely life, or sometimes difficult because they're absolute selfish assholes and its hard to not get every single thing that they want all the time), but then try to extend their fantasies to include the people around them. They always do this to try to control the people around them. You were willing to give him some control - you were willing to let him pretend that he taught you Reiki. But you just weren't willing to give him enough control to pretend that he made you fall in love with him. His mistake was that he reached too far too soon. He should have coerced you into pretending about small things first, like actually the Reiki and maybe guessing that you're both psychic and getting you to pretend with him that you could read minds. THEN work up to the big stuff like making you pretend that you're in love with him. You can see more successful manipulators like him in the E/N subforum every day (never the posters, always the other people in a poster's story). I'm not saying that you did anything wrong or bad, because you did tell him that he made you uncomfortable, and you didn't cooperate with his more serious self-delusions, and you eventually cut off all ties. I just wouldn't have let us go that far to begin with. Also holy poo poo.
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Jan 4, 2014 11:50
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Hibiscus posted:Thank you all for your kind words. I don't feel so bad about it now, and am going to get on with my life. That's the best thing you can do. It's not my business and you don't have to answer, but how old were you when things went down with Bill? It took me until I was about 28 to learn how to turn people down in way that's both clear/firm and polite. There's no "right" way to reject someone; the best you can do is find the kindest way to convey your feelings clearly. As for letting things drop, well, what does that mean, exactly? I mean, if you made it clear that you didn't believe Bill and he couldn't persuade you, then it's fine to let the subject drop. If you were wishy-washy about it and just mumbled, "Yeah, maybe..." then yeah--you shouldn't have left it so ambiguous. But if the worst thing you did in all of this was not be able to talk Bill into being sober and sane, then you should let that guilt drop. But Bill was a Crazy from the start--he confided his drinking problem to you almost right after meeting you. He also managed to make you take some responsibility for him and his problems; both are really major signs that he had no sense of, or respect for, boundaries. You stood up for yourself by not sponsoring him to join your temple, so it's not like he totally steamrolled you. Now that you're familiar with that kind of behavior, you'll know how to avoid it next time. You also know now that the minor, immediate guilt from rejecting someone's advances or insanity is nothing compared to the cost of keeping someone like Bill happy. Really, the only way you "hosed up" was by being too timid to tell him he was just completely delusional. But you walked away before he could devour your time/self-esteem/life, so you did alright. If I was in your position, I'd probably just end up being a catty little bitch until he was uncomfortable/offended/hurt enough to stop talking to me, which probably isn't much better than how you handled it.
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Jan 4, 2014 20:15
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Bobbie Wickham posted:That's the best thing you can do. It's not my business and you don't have to answer, but how old were you when things went down with Bill? It took me until I was about 28 to learn how to turn people down in way that's both clear/firm and polite. There's no "right" way to reject someone; the best you can do is find the kindest way to convey your feelings clearly. As for letting things drop, well, what does that mean, exactly? I mean, if you made it clear that you didn't believe Bill and he couldn't persuade you, then it's fine to let the subject drop. If you were wishy-washy about it and just mumbled, "Yeah, maybe..." then yeah--you shouldn't have left it so ambiguous. But if the worst thing you did in all of this was not be able to talk Bill into being sober and sane, then you should let that guilt drop. His view of Native Americans as SUPER MAGICAL PEOPLE kinda bugged me and I chuckled about it privately. At first he was just talking about how there were all these Native Americans following him around and taking care of good old mighty whitey as spirit guides. Then, while ensconced in the hospital, he decided he himself was one-fourth Native American, and used this to explain all the other beliefs he had. Bobbie Wickham posted:Really, the only way you "hosed up" was by being too timid to tell him he was just completely delusional. But you walked away before he could devour your time/self-esteem/life, so you did alright. If I was in your position, I'd probably just end up being a catty little bitch until he was uncomfortable/offended/hurt enough to stop talking to me, which probably isn't much better than how you handled it.
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Jan 4, 2014 20:52
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Hey, Hibiscus, you did the best you could. Tried to be there for the guy and all that. You can't fix some people, though. Like others are saying, what you really need to do is learn how to set boundaries and say no to people. I really wish you well! 
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Jan 4, 2014 20:53
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