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Mortabis posted:Not really, what I mean is that those planes are frickin old and they've got to be falling apart at the seams. They don't take the same kinds of stress and beatings combat aircraft have to endure. That doesn't make them last forever, but at least in part it does explain how they've been kept flying for so long. No airframe can go on forever, of course (ref. the RAF Nimrod going down in a ball of flame over Afghanistan a few years back.)
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Dec 31, 2013 02:07
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Minto Took posted:They should have kept this cockpit layout.
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Dec 31, 2013 02:13
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Sjurygg posted:They don't take the same kinds of stress and beatings combat aircraft have to endure. That doesn't make them last forever, but at least in part it does explain how they've been kept flying for so long. They also haven't flown nearly as many hours as a commercial airliner built at the same time would, or that's what everyone says anyway. Some of Lufthansa's older 747-400s (built circa 1990) are now getting scrapped because they've reached 100,000 hours, whereas I saw a very early KC-135A at March Field preserved with something like 45,000 hours.
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Dec 31, 2013 02:22
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I just finished reading this thread front to back...some neat stuff in here, that's for sure!Minto Took posted:They should have kept this cockpit layout. Thank Curtis LeMay for that...though for once he actually had good reasons. The side-by-side cockpit reduces crew fatigue and improves cooperation between the pilot and co-pilot.
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Dec 31, 2013 05:41
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StandardVC10 posted:They also haven't flown nearly as many hours as a commercial airliner built at the same time would, or that's what everyone says anyway. Some of Lufthansa's older 747-400s (built circa 1990) are now getting scrapped because they've reached 100,000 hours, whereas I saw a very early KC-135A at March Field preserved with something like 45,000 hours. Current airliners also have parts suppliers and don't need everything custom-made by the sheetmetal shop. AWACS got new seats for the first time in 20 years around 2010.
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Dec 31, 2013 05:48
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Hey goons, this is a bit of a crosspost from the Milhistory thread, but I wanted to reach out to the thread for some advice. The threads share some of the same readers, but I wanted to widest possible advice net. My girlfriend and I are going to be traveling Europe this summer, and I'm a huge milhistory/foreign policy reader. I was International Relations in undergrad and have been an avid reader in that vein all of my life. I was hoping this thread could point me in the direction of some cool things to see while we are traveling. I'm coming here for help on the Germany portion of the trip.In Germany,we have 2 days in Munich and 2 in Berlin. I want to see Checkpoint Charlie, the Berlin Wall, the Reichstag and Dachau. Any WW2 or Cold War museums/locations of significance/missile silos/bunkers/aviation graveyards/ whatever that are near those two cities would be great, since this portion of the trip is primarily mine to craft. I was hoping for stuff that isn't just google-able touristy trap stuff. The more academic, the better. In London, I'd like to see Downing Street, and Shakespeare stuff, but if anyone has any other recommendations (from any time not just WW2/CW) I'd love to hear them. Thanks goons 
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Dec 31, 2013 19:04
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Outside Dawg posted:Well, if you consider that the Marines aren't actually a separate branch, but a Corps of the Navy, then they do technically have nukes. The USMC is actually a separate branch, it's just that the Department of the Navy oversees two branches of the uniformed services, sometimes three when the Coast Guard get's rolled under them during times of war.
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Dec 31, 2013 19:14
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To be fair, we wouldn't even call the services branches if the Marines didn't throw a fit whenever people point out they're part of the Navy. They'd be called departments, just like they were pre-WWII.
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Dec 31, 2013 19:31
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Waroduce posted:Hey goons, this is a bit of a crosspost from the Milhistory thread, but I wanted to reach out to the thread for some advice. The threads share some of the same readers, but I wanted to widest possible advice net. Checkpoint Charlie - unless you just HAVE to go here, skip it or make it a 10 second walk-by. Put simply it doesn't exist any more. They tore all that poo poo down in the 90s and then when tourists kept asking where it was rebuilt part of it in the middle of an intersection. It's a traffic nightmare and basically consists of a single fake guard post building, a fake sign you can get your picture taken in front of, and a couple posters of some soldiers. Oh yeah, and inevitably some dudes in their 20s dressed in laughable military surplus costumes who you can get your picture with for a few euros. I can post pictures of it if you want. There's a McDonalds built on the site of the original. There's the Checkpoint Charlie museum, but it's really tourist-grade. It's enjoyable enough if you just want to look at cold war artifacts and know nothing about the history involved, but if you've read a book or two on it it's pretty shallow. It's also privately run by some guy with this huge axe to grind so it basically portrays the cold-war era west in the best of all possible lights and makes the East Germans into Nazi Germany 2.0. Not that the DDR were a bunch of cuddly puppies, but still. . . . The Berlin Wall - hate to break it to you, but this doesn't exist either. Not in any real sense anyways. Again, torn down during the 90s-00s building boom. The largest single chunk of remaining Berlin Wall is the East Side Gallery. These days it's an open air art museum/installment where local artists put their own poo poo on one of the longer remaining stretches of the wall. You should go to this anyways because it's just neat. As a bonus there are some pretty OK kebap stands nearby as I recall. THere are also a few scattered bits here and there where you can see a barrier with a plaque explaining what it is. Off the top of my head there's one right in the middle of Potsdamer Platz (which you should go to anyway if you're in Berlin - make sure to take a look at the preserved, ruined fascade of the old Hotel Esplenade which was incorporated into the hyper-modern Sony Center - it's a REALLY cool effect) that's convenient for the usual tourist photos. The Reichstag - show up early if you want to go up and do the dome thing. Honestly it's also pretty skippable if you're down on your German history, although the view of the city from the top is really awesome. Basically you go through a shitload of security, pay some money, and are then allowed to walk up to the top of the glass dome. Along the way there are a bunch of photos and paragraph-length explanations of the history of the building, basically giving an idiot's guide to German political history from Unification through Hitler and onto Reunification, followed by a quick run-down about what the architectural considerations were when they rebuilt the dome. Dachau - What can I say? It's Dachau. Understand that it was one of the first KZ's and as a result was mostly for political prisoners and not an extermination camp or anything, but at the same time it saw an immense amount of human suffering and death. It's a really humbling experience and is readily accessible by local rail from Munich. I highly recommend that you do it towards the morning so you can have at least half your day to do anything, loving ANYTHING that is fun and uplifting. Don't pair Dachau with a museum or some poo poo like that. Go to an art exhibit, get your drink on at a beer hall, enjoy the city parks if it's a nice day, do loving SOMETHING that isn't as depressing as reading about what a bunch of shitlords the Nazis were. Stuff that wasn't on your list that should be: Deutsches Historisches Museum. The German Historical Museum. Easily the best one-stop German history museum in Berlin, and I would argue the best in the country (although there's another in Bonn that gives it a run for its money on post-war stuff). It's ALL there - the exhibit starts with pre-Roman stuff and ends with the post-reunification era. It's old school as gently caress, with tons of exhibits of actual artifacts. Want to see the hat Napoleon was wearing at Waterloo? Well, German troops captured his baggage train, so it's in there. Want to see Bismark's jacket? There. Want to see an 8.8cm FlaK gun that used to be on the Berlin Zoologischergarten Flakturm? They've got one. And so on. The artifacts are accompanied by some really excellent (and surprisingly extended) writing on the items in both German and English. You could easily spend a whole day in there, but it also lends itself to browsing if you want to skip over the middle ages to get to the 19th century in order to make a dinner reservation or something. Hohenschönhausen. This was the big Stasi prison in the Berlin area during the cold war. Some very nasty people did some very nasty poo poo there. It was a Gestapo facility first, then got taken over by the NKVD after the war, and eventually became on of the major centers for the Stasi. If you speak German they have German language tours that are given by ex-inmates. I can not recommend that highly enough, they are utterly mind-blowing. If you don't speak German they give excellent ENglish language tours but you'll have to check on days and times - I think it was Wednesdays only when I was there, but that schedule has probably changed since then. Look at the webpage. The English tours were given by german grad students as a way to earn a few extra bucks when I rolled through last, so they are familiar with what's going on and can answer your questions. I can't recommend this place highly enough. Soviet War Memorial in the Tiergarten This is probably my favorite war memorial in Berlin. The Soviets built it immediately after the fighting ended. There are a handful of vehicles that were used in the fighting for the city, and it's all in all just a really neat memorial. It's also located right next to the Reichstag and the Brandenburg Gate, so you can get all 3 in at once if you want to. There's also another gently caress-off huge memorial in Treptow Park built on top of one of the larger mass graves from the fighting if you want to go do the Soviet monument thing. Memorial to the Murdered Jews of Europe. It is what it says it is. As you can well imagine it's some pretty powerful poo poo. It's also located right next to the Brandenburg Gate, so you can include that in your Stadtmitte Brandenburg/Reichstag/Tiergarten sweep. There's a museum located under it that's really good, but perhaps unnecessary if you're already planning on doing Dachau. That said, it's easily in the top 3 of Holocaust museums I've been to. The Memorial is also a relatively (maybe a mile? mile and a half?) short walk north of Potsdamer Platz, which is something you should go see just to say you've seen it. Alexanderplatz. This was basically the heart of the E. German part of the city and remains one of the most interesting parts. You've got the big-rear end Fehrnsehturm looming over head, and a really cool "international clock" in the middle both of which are absolutely emblematic of the artsier end of mid-20th century Communist Bloc architecture. You should also make a point of seeing the nearby Haus des Lehrers (House of the Teachers). An archive I work with used to be housed in there, but they got kicked out to make offices for Nokia or some poo poo. Regardless, it still has an awesome as gently caress high Soviet-era wrap-around mural depicting all the awesome things teachers do in the glorious Socialist worker's paradise. You don't have to spend all day at Alex, but it's worth strolling around for an hour or two. Tiergarten Quelle. Consider this one a personal tip. This is a local bar located under the railroad tracks near the Tiergarten stop on the S5/S7 lines. It's south german food, so not typical of the Berlin area, but that said it's among the best I've ever had anywhere in Germany, and certainly the best I've ever had at the prices they sell at. gently caress eating at the Hofbrauhaus in Munich or something similar - you'll get better stereotypical "German Food" at the Quelle and at about half the price. The beer is also really loving good, even by German standards. They serve a lot of the usual stand-bys for any corner pub in Germany, but also have Lemke which is a lot harder to find as it's a relatively small, local brewery. Think of it kind of like a German microwbrew. My wife and I have seriously discussed routing European travel that had nothing to do with Berlin or Germany through Berlin just so we can go to this place again, that's how loving much we love this place. If you have any other questions feel free to ask. I'm far more knowledgable about the Berlin area than the Munich area, although I've at least visited Munich a few times. If there are any specific neighborhoods in Berlin that you're interested in or any specific thing I can probably help with that. edit: You should also walk by the Russian Embassy. It's smack dab in the middle of Unter den Linden, so if you're walking from the Brandenburg Gate you'll go right by it on your right if you're going to the museum district (where, by the way, the Deutsches Historisches Museum is). It's the old Soviet Embassy and is impressive as gently caress. As a bonus they never bothered to take down all the hammer and sickle stuff - they just ran up the flag of the Russian Federation once the USSR fell apart. It's a working embassy of a major international power in one of the major cities for international diplomacy so don't be a jackoff and ring the doorbell or anything, but it's cool as gently caress to look at and take a few pictures of. Cyrano4747 fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Dec 31, 2013 |
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Dec 31, 2013 20:10
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Waroduce posted:Hey goons, this is a bit of a crosspost from the Milhistory thread, but I wanted to reach out to the thread for some advice. The threads share some of the same readers, but I wanted to widest possible advice net. You're doing a stop in Amsterdam between your Berlin and London sojourns as well, right? If you're travelling by train from Berlin to A'dam, your ticket is flexible enough, and you've got an extra 7 hours of so to spare on the way, you could take the RegionalExpress from Hannover Hbf to Munster(Örtze), about 1:45 each way, and visit the Panzermuseum for €7 pp. It's a bit out of the way though, and I wouldn't recommend choosing it over the big stuff Cyrano posted. Especially since you'd have to account for even more travelling in what looks to be a very... mobile schedule already
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Dec 31, 2013 20:52
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Thump! posted:The USMC is actually a separate branch, it's just that the Department of the Navy oversees two branches of the uniformed services, sometimes three when the Coast Guard get's rolled under them during times of war. We have always been a part of the Navy, organized under the Department of the Navy led by SECNAV, ever notice that even in wartime the highest ranking officer is a Four Star General and by statute that is the Rank only the CMC and ACMC wear, the "Five Star" is an Admiral, the Admiral of the Fleet (that post is currently vacant).
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Jan 1, 2014 05:34
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Waroduce posted:
For London, definitely go to the Churchill War Rooms. It is the preserved cabinet bunker and rooms from WW2 with a bunch of all the original furniture etc. Also has a pretty big museum about Churchill attached. It is in Westminster near Big Ben etc so its easy to get to.
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Jan 1, 2014 08:36
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Cyrano4747 posted:It's a working embassy of a major international power in one of the major cities for international diplomacy so don't be a jackoff and ring the doorbell or anything Do this, please.
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Jan 1, 2014 17:11
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iyaayas01 posted:Do this, please. And ask whoever answers what their favorite Putin Pun is. Mine is Putin on the Ritz.
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Jan 1, 2014 17:37
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iyaayas01 posted:Do this, please. Then go leave a flaming bag of dog poop at the North Korean embassy.
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Jan 1, 2014 17:39
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I'm imagining you ringing the bell only to have an angry Putin come to the door in a towel and with a head full of shampoo
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Jan 1, 2014 18:14
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timmmmaaaah posted:For London, definitely go to the Churchill War Rooms. It is the preserved cabinet bunker and rooms from WW2 with a bunch of all the original furniture etc. Also has a pretty big museum about Churchill attached. It is in Westminster near Big Ben etc so its easy to get to. grover fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Jan 1, 2014 |
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Jan 1, 2014 19:28
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grover posted:Definitely do this. If you're a war buff, the Imperial War Museum proper is worth a visit. The big must-see, though, is the British Museum- the brits plundered some of the best bits of world history over the years, and brought them into one convenient place. Tower Of London is neat, too (crown jewels, royal history), as is the London Museum (lot of Roman stuff). Visit the Greenwich observatory and National Maritime Museum if you have time. HMS Belfast is a typical WWII ship; worth checking out if you haven't been on one before, otherwise it's nothing special. The Army Museum struck me as an Army-themed day care center for spoiled Chelsea brats, but has some interesting exhibits, too. I'll also suggest the British Museum - seeing the Rosetta Stone is fairly mind-blowing as one of the truly significant historical artifacts. If your travelling up North them the Royal Armouries in Leeds is a great museum - my favourite item there is the experimental semi-auto conversion of an SMLE rifle.
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Jan 1, 2014 21:13
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Sjurygg posted:They don't take the same kinds of stress and beatings combat aircraft have to endure. That doesn't make them last forever, but at least in part it does explain how they've been kept flying for so long. There's also the very real Ship of Theseus factor. There are shitloads of civilian airframes to cannibalize and refurbish/repurpose for way less than a totally new plane would cost. Unless the P-8 proves to be a resounding cost-saving success with massive pork potential, the KC- and -707 based ISR birds aren't going anywhere anytime soon.
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Jan 1, 2014 21:47
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grover posted:Definitely do this. If you're a war buff, the Imperial War Museum proper is worth a visit. The big must-see, though, is the British Museum- the brits plundered some of the best bits of world history over the years, and brought them into one convenient place. Tower Of London is neat, too (crown jewels, royal history), as is the London Museum (lot of Roman stuff). Visit the Greenwich observatory and National Maritime Museum if you have time. HMS Belfast is a typical WWII ship; worth checking out if you haven't been on one before, otherwise it's nothing special. The Army Museum struck me as an Army-themed day care center for spoiled Chelsea brats, but has some interesting exhibits, too. The British Museum is loving huge. Even powering through the Greek and Egyptian areas could take a full day. The artifacts are the real deal, it's not a copy of the Parthenon, it's the actual Parthenon... Take time to really appreciate what is probably the number one collection of the ancient world on Earth. The Persian area is also exceptional.
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Jan 1, 2014 22:28
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Also highly recommend the British Museum. Not only is it awesome and home to a ton of cool poo poo from virtually every culture that has ever existed, it is also free! If you want to see the Imperial War Museum though, unfortunately they're in the middle of a major renovation for the upcoming centennial of World War 1 and will be closed from January to July. The Churchill War Rooms are still open and a real treat. And if you make it out of London, IWM Duxford should be on your list--unless you're a monster who doesn't care about seeing a SR-71 or going inside a Concorde.
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Jan 1, 2014 22:48
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Scratch Monkey posted:I'm imagining you ringing the bell only to have an angry Putin come to the door in a towel and with a head full of shampoo And now so am I.
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Jan 2, 2014 02:49
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SopWATh posted:The British Museum is loving huge. Even powering through the Greek and Egyptian areas could take a full day. The artifacts are the real deal, it's not a copy of the Parthenon, it's the actual Parthenon... Take time to really appreciate what is probably the number one collection of the ancient world on Earth. Wait, what? It's not that big, I powered through the whole thing in about 2 hours. This was a decade ago, but still....
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Jan 2, 2014 13:18
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SopWATh posted:The artifacts are the real deal, it's not a copy of the Parthenon, it's the actual Parthenon... Parthenon Marbles, which are a little different. Even the British in their height of "going to steal your culture and gently caress you" didn't lift entire temples off the top of hills. Probably. 
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Jan 2, 2014 16:55
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They would have if heavy lift helicopters had been invented sooner.  
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Jan 2, 2014 17:23
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Sperglord Actual posted:They would have if heavy lift helicopters had been invented sooner. They managed some pretty impressive theft without modern machinery.
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Jan 2, 2014 17:59
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Shooting Blanks posted:Wait, what? It's not that big, I powered through the whole thing in about 2 hours. This was a decade ago, but still.... Say loving what? I've been to that place three times over the last twenty years, spent a full day there each time, and I haven't come close to seeing the whole thing. Maybe you hit the really big exhibits that are highlighted in every tourist guide ever (Rosetta Stone, Elgin Marbles, etc) but there's no way you even walked through every exhibit in two hours. The place is goddamned gargantuan. Here, courtesy google maps: It forms a rough square roughly 400 meters on each edge, has a fuckload of interior halls etc, and is multiple stories tall. I think I remember there being 3 floors with active exhibits?   It is most emphatically not a small building. edit: poo poo, I spent more than two hours just looking at the Vindolanda Tablets. I was there right after those got put on display and that poo poo just blew the top off my head Psion posted:Parthenon Marbles, which are a little different. Even the British in their height of "going to steal your culture and gently caress you" didn't lift entire temples off the top of hills. I don't know about the Brits, but the Germans sure as gently caress did. If you want to see the Temple of Pergamon you have to go to Berlin. It, and a couple of other major structures from the ancient world, are housed in the appropriately named Pergamon Museum.
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Jan 2, 2014 18:18
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Psion posted:Parthenon Marbles, which are a little different. Even the British in their height of "going to steal your culture and gently caress you" didn't lift entire temples off the top of hills. The Germans did , it's pretty cool to look at but still loving mindblowing that they just snatched the entire temple. 
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Jan 3, 2014 17:51
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Reuters: U.S. waived laws to keep F-35 on track with China-made parts:quote:The Pentagon repeatedly waived laws banning Chinese-built components on U.S. weapons in order to keep the $392 billion Lockheed Martin Corp F-35 fighter program on track in 2012 and 2013, even as U.S. officials were voicing concern about China's espionage and military buildup.
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Jan 4, 2014 02:57
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We must not allow a $2 magnet gap
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Jan 4, 2014 03:05
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I love that they're contemplating spending thousands of man hours to replace them with US made components, instead of just red tagging the Chinese parts on the shelf, and buying American in the future. It's not like we stuck a bunch of ChiCom electronics in our new jets, and it's not like there aren't any US manufacturers.
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Jan 4, 2014 04:47
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We don't have to buy new Chinese rare-earth magnets. There are already enough floating around in electronics in the US that we've imported, erm, from China. We just need an appropriate WWII-style donation campaign. "WHEN YOU SPANK ONLINE, YOU SPANK WITH KIM JONG UN! - Porn belongs on paper - recycle your extra hard drives today!"
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Jan 4, 2014 05:03
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MrYenko posted:I love that they're contemplating spending thousands of man hours to replace them with US made components, instead of just red tagging the Chinese parts on the shelf, and buying American in the future. It's not like we stuck a bunch of ChiCom electronics in our new jets, and it's not like there aren't any US manufacturers.
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Jan 4, 2014 05:09
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grover posted:The problem is that this wasn't policy-driven, but a legal requirement; not necessarily all that easy to hand-wave away, no matter how much sense it makes. It's part of the problem with our procurement process. Fortunately, common sense seems to have prevailed here. This got discussed obliquely in either this or one of the GiP threads; 'Buy American' laws make sense for strategic reasons from the 30,000 foot view but combine awkwardly with the modern interconnected economy and the movement of specific specialized production overseas. I used the examples of certain integrated circuits and capacitors, where domestic production is pretty much solely for military contract and thus gets no benefit from civilian economy of scale, cranking up the price considerably. Wouldn't surprise me if small, fairly generic magnets fell into this as well. It's sort of the untold story of the $3000 dollar toilet seat; when everyone who isn't the federal government considers imported seats good enough for their tuckuses, the guys who only get to sell to the Feds will adjust their prices to make it worthwhile. It may sound useful for a protracted conventional war, but when the entire population is clamoring for a swift end and restoration of imports to resolve their unsupported making GBS threads it's hard to see how long we'd hold out.
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Jan 4, 2014 18:11
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If the F-35 plans were offered to the Chinese for free, they'd just say, "不谢" and go back to reverse-engineering the F-22.
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Jan 5, 2014 06:05
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Snowdens Secret posted:This got discussed obliquely in either this or one of the GiP threads; 'Buy American' laws make sense for strategic reasons from the 30,000 foot view but combine awkwardly with the modern interconnected economy and the movement of specific specialized production overseas. I used the examples of certain integrated circuits and capacitors, where domestic production is pretty much solely for military contract and thus gets no benefit from civilian economy of scale, cranking up the price considerably. Wouldn't surprise me if small, fairly generic magnets fell into this as well. I'm of the mind that buy American provisions are probably more for the purpose of make-work pork than actual strategic considerations.
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Jan 5, 2014 07:26
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Pilot that flew his P-51 under the Eiffel tower dies at 92
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Jan 5, 2014 08:50
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Well well well, now look at precious, precious capitalism who decided all those REM mines in the US weren't profitable enough  (I wonder if the Heavy Press Program could ever have happened in the US today..?)
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Jan 5, 2014 11:05
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Waroduce posted:I'm coming here for help on the Germany portion of the trip.In Germany,we have 2 days in Munich and 2 in Berlin. I want to see Checkpoint Charlie, the Berlin Wall, the Reichstag and Dachau. Any WW2 or Cold War museums/locations of significance/missile silos/bunkers/aviation graveyards/ whatever that are near those two cities would be great, since this portion of the trip is primarily mine to craft. I was hoping for stuff that isn't just google-able touristy trap stuff. The more academic, the better. I'm not speaking from personal experience here, but you might want to have a look at this: berliner-unterwelten.de They have guided tours of WW2 bomb shelters, cold war civil defense shelters and the subterranean Berlin Wall.
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Jan 5, 2014 13:25
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A German did it first. 
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Jan 5, 2014 15:32
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