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Tuxedo Catfish posted:There's a way to do it but it involves making dozens of small armies plus a few big ones waiting in reserve, and gaming the everloving poo poo out of the AI, preferably in mountainous terrain or across rivers. Oh so can you still marry off to them? I thought they changed that for some reason, seeing as I could never get hitched to anyone except other Zoroastrians due to that "so-and-so cannot marry a heathen" malus. If that's the case I might just sacrifice Khiva to them and then play hype man for a while as they eat my relatives in independent Turkestan. aw ye, you killin it temujin.
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Jan 6, 2014 18:26
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Seoinin posted:Oh so can you still marry off to them? I thought they changed that for some reason, seeing as I could never get hitched to anyone except other Zoroastrians due to that "so-and-so cannot marry a heathen" malus. You can't marry off (hah, as a Zoroastrian? I wish) but I'm fairly certain the Mongols (not sure about the Seljuks) are stuck with gavelkind. You kiss rear end so they don't decide to holy war you; you assassinate so they have succession crises and break into small enough chunks that you can holy war them. Mind you, I haven't done this in ages, I was totally unprepared for the Seljuk invasion in my last Persia game and in the current one I have only the fuzziest of plans. They sound about the same as yours -- I conquered Turkestan and Cumania and then granted them independence; hopefully they'll make more appealing targets while I figure it out.  They should make the Tolerance tech reduce the infidel penalty for diplomacy instead of just intra-realm relations.
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Jan 6, 2014 18:29
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For some reason all my horde plans involve letting Khiva & Turkestan get put to the sword while I run around wondering why I ever thought a levy of 45,000 was hot poo poo. "Sire, Samarkand is in flames!" "Eh, gently caress 'em." e. do the Mongols at least respect peace treaties? paranoid randroid fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Jan 6, 2014 |
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Jan 6, 2014 18:34
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I haven't played a Catholic ruler for a while now because I've been on a huge pagan streak since Old Gods came out, but I decided to properly try out some of the content from Sons of Abraham with my latest Ireland game. Started in Dublin, as one does, created the Kingdom of Ireland, and from there I didn't really have a good idea of what to do, until the Pope called the Second Crusade. I was lucky enough to win the Second Crusade for Jerusalem, meaning that I'm now also the King of Jerusalem. It took me a while to build a stable powerbase there though, as I got immediately kicked out following the Shia Jihad for Jerusalem. However, I reclaimed the Kingdom of Jerusalem in the Third Crusade and I've now built a pretty decent kingdom in Jerusalem. However, in the process I made the mistake of changing my succession laws to Tanistry, because it seemed good on paper. At the moment I'm quite comfortably ruling both Ireland and Jerusalem, and I recently inherited Aragon from my father. The Knights Templar and Knights Hospitaler are both my vassals, meaning that I can repel pretty much any Jihad all by myself without needing to call in allies. I've yet to been able to repeal Tanistry in either of my kingdoms, because ever since one of my former kings gave birth to a demon spawn all of my kings have been dying surprisingly early into their reigns. Hopefully my current king (who married said demonspawn because gently caress yeah) will be able to live long enough to change the succession law. Thankfully my current Tanist for both of my Kingdoms happens to be my son, although I'm not sure how long he'll live if my antichrist wife has any say in it (she seems to be the second most favored Tanist in my Kingdom, with a lot of the votes split between her and my son). I sort of wish I could give the crown over to her and play as her instead, because I want to see some of the special events that become available for demonspawn rulers. e: CapnAndy posted:Also, there's a way to vassalize the Pope without resorting to Antipopes now, right? I'm not quite sure if it works, but if the pagans are any indication it's indeed possible to vassalize religious leaders, but there's a few problems in the way: 1) Religious titles are titular titles, so they'll always have the "Not my de jure liege" malus. 2) Religious titles seem to be on the level of duchies/petty kingdoms as far as the malus from relative power goes, so you need to be at least an emperor to weigh off that malus. 3) Even if you are an emperor, the malus for different culture is usually big enough to make vassalization not an option. Do note that the Papacy might have some further mechanics that prevent vassalization, but since I've been able to vassalize the High Priest of both the Suomenusko and Romuva churches (as the Emperors of Scandinavia and the Wendish Empire respectively) I would think that it's theoretically possible. With all that said, if you want to try out vassalizing the Pope, I'd recommend building the Empire of Italia with an Italian king. Ratpick fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Jan 6, 2014 |
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Jan 6, 2014 18:37
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The Papacy is a kingdom-level title, and kings will never, ever accept vassalisation. They're coded to have an automatic "I am a king!" modifier which prevents it. So no, antipopes are the only way.
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Jan 6, 2014 18:59
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I thought that there was some way with the College of Cardinals, where if you were an Emperor, got a direct vassal elected to the College and then he was elected Pope, he'd stay your vassal and now boom, the Pope thinks you're his liege and the next one will keep that up. Not the case?
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Jan 6, 2014 19:10
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Popes give up their old holdings when elected. I can mess around with it later to see but I haven't heard/read about anything
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Jan 6, 2014 19:16
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I really don't want to have to make an antipope, my first order of business after I finally form Brittania is going to be going to war with the HRE because they installed one and Catholicism is now sitting at 44% moral authority because they had to be dickbags and have a pocket pope. I'm not sure how much more the religion can take.
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Jan 6, 2014 19:24
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Seoinin posted:For some reason all my horde plans involve letting Khiva & Turkestan get put to the sword while I run around wondering why I ever thought a levy of 45,000 was hot poo poo. Yep. It's both useful and a source of annoyance in terms of historicity to me. Generally the mongols will show up and eat one kingdom level title (usually Khiva/Turkestan). Because they then have a peace treaty with whatever Persian power held the title, they'll gobble up Cumania and end up hopelessly lost in the Russian steppe. For once I want to see the Seljuqs and the Ilkhanate actually invade Persia proper.
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Jan 6, 2014 19:37
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Fuligin posted:Yep. It's both useful and a source of annoyance in terms of historicity to me. Generally the mongols will show up and eat one kingdom level title (usually Khiva/Turkestan). Because they then have a peace treaty with whatever Persian power held the title, they'll gobble up Cumania and end up hopelessly lost in the Russian steppe. For once I want to see the Seljuqs and the Ilkhanate actually invade Persia proper. I'm all for that, just as long as I'm not playing Persia
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Jan 6, 2014 19:42
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I just started playing this game after watching some tutorial videos on YT, and I still barely have any idea what I'm doing but it's pretty fun. It's kind of nice that as long as you have an heir the game doesn't really end, no matter how much you gently caress up.
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Jan 6, 2014 19:50
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Mondlicht posted:I just started playing this game after watching some tutorial videos on YT, and I still barely have any idea what I'm doing but it's pretty fun. It's kind of nice that as long as you have an heir the game doesn't really end, no matter how much you gently caress up. Don't worry, once you've got most of it figured out, the rest should "click" pretty easily. CKII has a fantastically holistic design, and you can generally apply real-life rules of common sense to the game. Avoid pissing off people who can do something about it, don't make somebody who doesn't like you the spymaster, and never forget to pay the mercs.
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Jan 6, 2014 19:59
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DStecks posted:Don't worry, once you've got most of it figured out, the rest should "click" pretty easily. CKII has a fantastically holistic design, and you can generally apply real-life rules of common sense to the game. Avoid pissing off people who can do something about it, don't make somebody who doesn't like you the spymaster, and never forget to pay the mercs. I married a Princess who had really high Intrigue and then made her the Spymaster, she died from illness though.  Rest in peace my beloved secret agent wife.
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Jan 6, 2014 20:01
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Now that I have free investiture, what kind of people should I be appointing as bishop successors? Any stats I should look for?
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Jan 6, 2014 20:05
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Parallax Scroll posted:Now that I have free investiture, what kind of people should I be appointing as bishop successors? Any stats I should look for? It's great for getting rid of second and third sons and other would-be pretenders to your throne. Just look for an old bishop and appoint one of those guys.
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Jan 6, 2014 20:13
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DrSunshine posted:It's great for getting rid of second and third sons and other would-be pretenders to your throne. Just look for an old bishop and appoint one of those guys. But if there isn't anyone I need to get rid of? Does him having a high stewardship or learning or whatever increase his levies or taxes?
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Jan 6, 2014 20:15
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The College of Cardinals likes dudes with high Learning.
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Jan 6, 2014 20:20
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CapnAndy posted:The College of Cardinals likes dudes with high Learning. Yep, but without SoA it's entirely useless to make "good" bishops because the only thing that matters to your taxes is how much they like the Pope (vs you) and not how much the Pope and other cardinals like THEM. Higher learning leads to faster religious converting in their counties if they are duke level. That's about it.
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Jan 6, 2014 20:57
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Thanks. Since I'm working towards an empire, does it matter which empire I go with? I assumed I'd be Brittania since I'm Irish, but I've been gaining territory in France and might be able to get the Francia empire first.
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Jan 6, 2014 21:07
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How does one go about vassalizing a mercenary company?
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Jan 6, 2014 21:08
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If I force a son to be a monk or whatever, do any children he has/had lose the ability to inherit as well? Same with daughters.
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Jan 6, 2014 21:34
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Mickey McKey posted:How does one go about vassalizing a mercenary company? Give the captain a barony or county in your de jure territory I think. That's how I did it for the Varangians and immortals. They always seem to be super whiny for some reason so get ready to deal with "captain fred of the shithead company has formed the independence faction" warnings. Just make sure they're actually vassalized afterwards. It took me like ten minutes to figure out why the game was telling me I didn't completely control Khiva after the immortals grabbed a barony. paranoid randroid fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Jan 6, 2014 |
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Jan 6, 2014 21:55
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I hate hate hate hate how a prepared invasion can become totally useless because the realm you have targetted collapses after you defeat the enemy doomstack.
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Jan 6, 2014 22:06
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I decided to try and play a bit in Sicily and as the Duke of Benevento I now have all the bits of Sicily that aren't Italy (Bari, Apulia), Byzantium or Muslim. I suppose its time to wait for Italy to fall apart and see if I can grab some more land. Also, a curious thing happened. I have primogeniture succession, my first son died. Then while my second son was alive the game popped up a message that my grandson by the first son was going to be my new heir, but shouldn't it still be the second son?
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Jan 6, 2014 22:15
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Seoinin posted:Give the captain a barony or county in your de jure territory I think. But you can't do that to people outside your realm, unless they're a holy order or the Pope, can you? ----- On an unrelated note, does anybody understand how culture shifting works? I'm playing a Navarra game, and one of my goals is to spread Basque culture.
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Jan 6, 2014 22:21
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MrBling posted:I decided to try and play a bit in Sicily and as the Duke of Benevento I now have all the bits of Sicily that aren't Italy (Bari, Apulia), Byzantium or Muslim. I suppose its time to wait for Italy to fall apart and see if I can grab some more land. Nope. Open up the dynasty tree - primo basically favours the most direct line vertically down from the title holder (gender law pending, of course). Take real life - Prince Charles dying would just make William heir, not one of the Queen's other children.
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Jan 6, 2014 22:24
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DStecks posted:But you can't do that to people outside your realm, unless they're a holy order or the Pope, can you? If you have a Basque ruler there is a small chance to spread your culture to any provinces you control. If you are gregarious, have high VVV Thanks! I was doing it from memory. Antinumeric fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Jan 6, 2014 |
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Jan 6, 2014 22:25
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Antinumeric posted:If you have a Basque ruler there is a small chance to spread your culture to any provinces you control. If you are gregarious, have high diplomacy it goes quicker, shy rulers slower. Your best bet is to hand out all counties to as many basque people as possible. The more the more likely it is to pop once. Do remember that part of Gascogne and Bordeaux are Basque at the start. It's all just chance. Small coda : Culture flipping depends on Stewardship, not Diplomacy.
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Jan 6, 2014 22:27
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DStecks posted:But you can't do that to people outside your realm, unless they're a holy order or the Pope, can you? Check my post history, but basically have as many Basque vassals holding one county each, and make sure they all have something like 14 stewardship. Higher stewardship speeds it up.
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Jan 6, 2014 22:27
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Antinumeric posted:If you have a Basque ruler there is a small chance to spread your culture to any provinces you control. If you are gregarious, have high Gregarious (and diligent) only matters for converting a character's culture, not a province.
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Jan 6, 2014 22:30
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Seoinin posted:Give the captain a barony or county in your de jure territory I think. That's how I did it for the Varangians and immortals. They always seem to be super whiny for some reason so get ready to deal with "captain fred of the shithead company has formed the independence faction" warnings. That's for a holy order. I don't think you can vassalize mercenaries without getting gamey. As in, hire them, run out of cash, wait till they turn on you for not paying them and let them take a county. Now they're landed and you should be able to vassalize them. I've never done it, just what I've read.
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Jan 6, 2014 22:34
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Antinumeric posted:I hate hate hate hate how a prepared invasion can become totally useless because the realm you have targetted collapses after you defeat the enemy doomstack. I haven't done any prepared invasions personally since I get to holy war left and right, but I know that I've kept fighting long after I made the warscore 100% just in order to cripple my opponent's forces to make them weak pickings for the next invader. (I really wanted to crush Fatmid as a nation; not just take its lands, but make Fatmid no longer exist. Only problem is now I have a massive seljuk sitting on my border that I need to crush next...)
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Jan 6, 2014 22:37
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Antinumeric posted:If you have a Basque ruler there is a small chance to spread your culture to any provinces you control. If you are gregarious, have high Thanks for the advice! I've also got the minor issue in my Navarra game that I gave the Duchy of Aragon to a Jewish courtier, and he turned out to be... very serious about his religion. Alto Aragon has already gone Jewish, and I expect that the whole duchy will probably follow in the next hundred years or so. (I'm not asking for advice to remedy this situation, I actually think it's pretty fun.) I also think it's pretty neat that Spanish rulers get Sephardic Jewish courtiers, while rulers in, say, Britain, get Ashkenazi. It's the little touches that make me love this game. 
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Jan 6, 2014 22:40
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I got one of the "Jewish Courtier" events, and the guy I got turned out to have a pretty solid intrigue score, so I appointed him as my spymaster and set him to finding plots. Then I get an event: I didn't even have him stealing tech! Turns out it's something that happens occasionally for non-Jews if you have a Jewish Spymaster, regardless of skill or assignment. There's similar ones for having a Jewish Chancellor (culture points) or Steward (economy points). A nice little bonus for not treating Jews like crap.
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Jan 6, 2014 23:02
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Nolanar posted:I got one of the "Jewish Courtier" events, and the guy I got turned out to have a pretty solid intrigue score, so I appointed him as my spymaster and set him to finding plots. Then I get an event: Speaking of Jews, how worth it is Sons of Abraham? It's literally the only DLC I don't have, but I heard it doesn't work with CK2+, so I'm kind of mixed about it.
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Jan 6, 2014 23:16
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Excelzior posted:Gavelkind is fine as long as you hold just one Kingdom-level title and don't try to hoard every single duchy within it (make sure every son has one and it should be good). Anything past that and the game's valuation of Kingdom and Empire-level titles throws the gavelkind split into chaos. It still gets weird sometimes even when you only hold a single duchy.
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Jan 6, 2014 23:23
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Serperoth posted:Speaking of Jews, how worth it is Sons of Abraham? It's literally the only DLC I don't have, but I heard it doesn't work with CK2+, so I'm kind of mixed about it. Sons of Abraham is totally worth it, not only for Jewish courtiers and getting to play as the Jews, but because it adds a lot of depth to religion in general. Oh, and the potential for amazing events like having one of your children be the literal antichrist or having not!Jean d'Arc appearing in your court. And while the focus of the DLC is on adding depth to Christians and Muslims (on top of adding Jews) it has stuff for all of the religions, including holy orders for every single religion. On top of that you get to play the College of Cardinals as a Catholic ruler, which adds another layer of fun to giving your sons bishoprics. If you play it right you can set up one of the members of your dynasty as the head of the church, netting a huge piety gain to your entire dynasty.
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Jan 6, 2014 23:37
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Serperoth posted:Speaking of Jews, how worth it is Sons of Abraham? It's literally the only DLC I don't have, but I heard it doesn't work with CK2+, so I'm kind of mixed about it. Does someone have the Paradox forum link to the guy who went on to form the satanic Kingdom of Ireland with a demon army lead by the three witches? Quick question regarding the Holy Orders, just wondering what actually are the Holy Orders for every religion? Is there a list out there, I just want to see what Paradox came up with (I only know Riders of the Open Sky for reformed Tengri). Blooming Brilliant fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Jan 6, 2014 |
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Jan 6, 2014 23:39
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Ratpick posted:Sons of Abraham is totally worth it, not only for Jewish courtiers and getting to play as the Jews, but because it adds a lot of depth to religion in general. Oh, and the potential for amazing events like having one of your children be the literal antichrist or having not!Jean d'Arc appearing in your court. That sounds pretty cool. I'm kind of trying to reform the Norse faith myself in my game as Sweden, so it's definitely interesting. Does it work with CK2+? If no, is there a new version in the works?
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Jan 6, 2014 23:46
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Something I've forgotten since the 100 years I've played this game, and with the tech screen change with the old gods. Where do you want to have your council members do research? Always your capital, or in the backwater county you want to gain tech? And a second pair of questions that I still don't get. Is there a mechanical explanation for: 1) Trade value (of a trade port), and 2) Why you want contiguously connected trade zones, as a republic? What exactly does it increase? When do you want to choose between expanding into another sea region, or building another trade post within an already owned sea region?
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Jan 6, 2014 23:54
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