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For the Shapeshifting thing, you could steal heavily from Blood and Smoke's "turn into animals" power but make it, mechanically, very similar to the Druid's shapeshift. When you warp your own flesh to take the form of an animal you have consumed roll +Wis. On a 10+ gain 3 hold, on a 7-9 gain 2 hold on a 6- gain 1 hold anyway but when you spend it, there is a complication stemming from your animal instincts. To gain an animal form you must have consumed the beast killing it by feeding from it. You can only take on the form of predatory animals, carrion-eaters, plague-carrying beasts, and parasites. You may 'store' up to 3 forms but only one can be active at once. You must slumber for a full day to change which animal form you have. When you transform, the MC will give you some new moves based on what animal you transform into. Spend your hold 1-for-1 to activate these moves - no roll is necessary, they just happen.
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Jan 4, 2014 16:03
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Do you think it's maybe too weird having both a regularly held resource (blood) along with some other sort of non-specific "hold" tied to a certain move? Like, a bit too fiddly maybe? Otherwise that looks pretty decent...I hadn't wanted to make it too similar to Druid shapeshifting but then I remembered hey wait, they can just take that move anyway 
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Jan 4, 2014 16:21
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As a caveat I've actually never been in a game with a Druid in it so I have somewhat limited input here. What I do know is that the Druid's Shapeshifter move is probably the most polarising move in the core playbooks in that there are tons of people going "I legit do not get how this move works - there's so much work involved and I do not know why it was made like this" and tons of people saying that once you get it, it's one of the coolest and most thematic moves the core playbooks have. From some of the explanations in this thread, it seems like once the MC "gets" it, he can really help to differentiate between different animal forms by giving them all cool moves to activate. As far as I can tell, the Shapeshift move is there to give the Druid a store of cool magical powers which he can change up a bit beforehand - although exactly what he gets is up to the MC. It's Vancian Magic that trades precision for flexibility. You're not 100% sure what you'll get, but you can always just change shape to get a new loadout. What exactly is it you want the Shapeshift move to do? Because there are probably a dozen different, equally viable, ways to model "changes shape into an animal". Just off the top of my head, you could simply model it as a "you are a different size and look like an animal and can move like an animal". You could give armor and bonus damage. You could make them pick from a list of modifications, like armor or claws or poison. You could do it like the Druid and dump some of the work on the MC for added flexibility. The main thing to work out is what do you want the Vampire to be doing with his animal forms? On another note, if you're worried that having multiple sources of hold could be too complex, I'd be careful about making having a pool of Blood a core thing then - a bunch of moves give you persistent hold.
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Jan 4, 2014 16:32
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That is a fair point regarding hold, but I figured that so long as I kept the Vampire's own moveset from generating more than one sort of "held resource" that it would at least not be too complex to manage or mentally track. Maybe I'm wrong about that one, oh well, it wouldn't be the first time. What do I want a Vampire doing with his shapeshifting? I dunno, the fun sorts of things you'd want to turn into a bat or wolf for. Fly around, track by scent, see in the dark, be cool and/or ominous. Largely I felt most of that was covered by "you have any innate weaknesses and abilities of these forms"...bats are innately going to fly and have echolocation, wolves are innately going to have superior senses and be fast runners, etc. It didn't really seem like there was a need to get much more involved than that. But if the Druid rolls along and does all that plus more better then, well, I need to hit the drawing board I suppose.
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Jan 4, 2014 16:42
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I took a look at Dark Metamorphosis. And I think it's actually not that bad. With the Druid move, you're rolling to shapeshift in a crutch every time, and even if you still get 1 hold on a miss, the GM makes a move on that miss. With Dark Metamorphosis, you can simply spend blood and say "I am this". Of course, you have to roll to get Blood, but you can do that in somewhat more controlled circumstances than you'll sometimes be using Druid shapeshifting in. EDIT: And regarding Blood/hold, it is simply not a problem. Plenty of classes use similar resources, and they don't really pose much difficulty for people. Anyone complaining about the Vampire's use of Blood is just being overly fussy. EDIT EDIT: Regarding Apex Predator, you can easily just have it give one additional blood and leave it at that, and it won't be overpowered. 4 on a 12+ makes its benefit a bit on the rare side even with a +3 Instinct. Kaja Rainbow fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Jan 4, 2014 |
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Jan 4, 2014 16:50
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ritorix posted:Nope, I've run it several times now and every game turns into a failure cascade as the new minotaur goes into a bloodrage, gets killed by someone else, then another, repeat until party wipe. Just as intended.
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Jan 4, 2014 18:20
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Kaja Rainbow posted:Yeah, with more approach-based stats, statting up vampires would be easier. Give them moves keyed off Aggressive and Slick or whatever equivalents an alternative hack would use, and you're mostly good. Not necessarily the best examples of alternative stats but that's just to give an idea of what it'd be like. The intellectual stuff can more easily be themed with an aggressive or slick take in my quick and dirty example than they can be with "I have high strength/whatever". I've always wanted to convert some of my favorite playbooks back to apocworld stats but man, that's some work. If I ever ran dungeon world I might.
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Jan 4, 2014 19:54
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I really like the DW stats. To my eye they work better than the same six stats did in D&D itself. This is all down to how they interact with the basic moves. Each stat has a single basic move associated with it. AW doesn't have that kind of symmetry. Then look at what those moves are. Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution are all combat stats as they always have been. The other three are much more useful than in D&D. Wisdom has become your perception stat and makes the GM answer questions about your situation. That's not a dump stat anymore. Intelligence lets you add facts to the game world, very useful for the player with the right attitude about it. Charisma lets you make people do what you want. You have to have some leverage but "battle-ready party of experienced adventurers" will suffice for a lot of situations, and not just as a threat. Those three "non-combat" stats are purpose built for manipulating the fiction in various ways. If you don't like how this array of stats is put together, I say take a closer look. It's quite elegant.
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Jan 4, 2014 20:56
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I don't have a problem with the mental stats, it's the physical ones that are kind of boring. Hard was a lot cooler then Strength is, because it says something about your character's personality and approach rather than just being a quality you possess, and I like Cool a lot better than dex and con for a similar reason, they're both more versatile and you can call on them in more situations. It's also a lot easier to come up with consequences for Weird than it is for Int.
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Jan 4, 2014 21:21
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I've been reading over the Vampire, and like a lot of what I see. While I think the Stat-replace model can have it's pitfalls, it works here, though I might mention tying an emotion to each stat: Blood works as a great resource mechanic, and makes sure you get the vampire to act as a vampire should. In fiction, the vampire archetype is often about temptation, darker lusts, aching hunger, and an alien inhumanity. They're the outsider, looking in on life with jealousy, with a hollow need, an addiction that is never filled for long. If the class feels more versatile and powerful than others, the best remedy is to really make the vampiric weaknesses hurt. Perhaps have the Vampire start with all the weaknesses. (Also add in the running water one and the OCD counting one, those are two of my favorites!) Make it clear that the living hate and fear Vampires, and being discovered carries dire consequences. You could then perhaps have an advanced move that lets you choose a number of weaknesses to negate when you carry your memento of your mortal life. A lot of Vampire fiction has themes of consent that make the temptation part so vital. The feeding isn't about the Vampire, it's about the victim. Perhaps in Need to Feed, stipulate that the vampire only adds their bonus if the victim is willing, or is overcome with a particular emotion related to the Vampire's nature - lust, terror, sorrow (or depression? loneliness?). Your triggers for your move are going to be your most powerful tools in balancing the Vampire. By drilling down and making the circumstances under which you trigger your moves more specific, it will make the player work a little harder for their cool moves. Kai Tave posted:That is a fair point regarding hold, but I figured that so long as I kept the Vampire's own moveset from generating more than one sort of "held resource" that it would at least not be too complex to manage or mentally track. Maybe I'm wrong about that one, oh well, it wouldn't be the first time. I think it's OK for the Druid to be a better shapeshifter than the Vampire, shapeshifting is their thing! What do Vampires do with their shapeshifting in fiction? usually they use it to escape, to hunt, or to overcome an obstacle. For flavor, I might include a line about the Vampire's mind becoming like that of the beast if they stay in the form too long. EDIT: I posted it over in the Apocalypse World thread, but I may as well mention it here. I'm working on a Mass Effect/Space Opera hack called Impulse Drive that will use a combination of basic moves, class moves, and moves on cards to represent gear and powers in a loadout. I'm looking for feedback and ideas either here on in the comments for the doc. madadric fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Jan 5, 2014 |
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Jan 5, 2014 00:38
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AW's stat spread is really good but also specifically tailored for a hard-bitten apocalyptic setting in terms of flavor. If you want a stat spread more tailored for a more traditional fantasy game, it's worthwhile picking out a set closer in flavor. For example: Aggressive, Slick, Resolute, Insightful, Unearthly. That would involve some adjustments to basic moves, but there's a good reason for hacks to have different basic moves. Also, that stat spread provides some interesting mapping to existing classes. Rogue and Bard easily incline themselves toward Slick, the fighting classes're obviously Aggressive, the Wizard's Insightful, Druids seem Unearthly, Priests depending on your take would be Insightful or Unearthly, Paladins have a Resolute feeling to them (I Am the Law would probably use Resolute), and so on. As for what every stat covers, Slick would actually cover both dex-sort stuff and some social approaches, while Resolute covers stubbornness, toughness, and social approaches that's more about presenting yourself strongly (I Am the Law or leadership type stuff). Aggressive is obviously the fighting stat and could also easily cover taunting opponents and such. Insightful's for spotting certain fine details and knowing stuff, and Unearthly is more about engaging with forces above yourself or being an unearthly force yourself. EDIT: And an interesting thing about the Aggressive/Slick divide is that it can cover different basic approaches to fight, not just a melee/ranged+precise divide. Aggressive fighting would be basically Hack and Slash though it can also cover shooting at an enemy who's shooting back or aggressively closing in on you, while Slick would be more like Volley/Backstab where the dangers are entanglement/expending non-HP resources/doing reduced damage. All this is just throwing out ideas, though. Not all of those ideas will necessarily be particularly good. Kaja Rainbow fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Jan 5, 2014 |
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Jan 5, 2014 00:51
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Thanks for the feedback, everybody. I'm going to go make some tweaks and changes here and there and think a bit about some of the stuff madadric said. While for now I think I'll keep Dark Metamorphosis mostly as it is (i.e. not a move you roll and gain hold from) I do like some of the stuff Doodmons wrote about acquiring shapes by draining certain kinds of animals' blood which gives the move a little more versatility (become a spider, become a rat, turn into a jaguar for that Aztec flair...if you can drain one dry first), so I think I'll be incorporating that. Working on triggers is absolutely a thing I've tried to bear in mind since I first tried my hand at making a playbook (the Warlord) as it was one of the big bits of feedback I got, so that's always good advice to bear in mind.
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Jan 5, 2014 02:11
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Kaja Rainbow posted:AW's stat spread is really good but also specifically tailored for a hard-bitten apocalyptic setting in terms of flavor. If you want a stat spread more tailored for a more traditional fantasy game, it's worthwhile picking out a set closer in flavor. For example: Aggressive, Slick, Resolute, Insightful, Unearthly. That would involve some adjustments to basic moves, but there's a good reason for hacks to have different basic moves. Also, that stat spread provides some interesting mapping to existing classes. Rogue and Bard easily incline themselves toward Slick, the fighting classes're obviously Aggressive, the Wizard's Insightful, Druids seem Unearthly, Priests depending on your take would be Insightful or Unearthly, Paladins have a Resolute feeling to them (I Am the Law would probably use Resolute), and so on. If I were to overhaul DW's stat spread (and for now I'll leave off all the subsystems that would impact, like encumbrance and HP), I think I'd probably base the stats off of motivations for going out and becoming a murderhobo. Something like: -Greedy -Violent -Altruistic -Curious -Crazy Admittedly, that suggests some tweaks to the basic move set, but I think there's some mileage there.
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Jan 5, 2014 02:13
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GimpInBlack posted:If I were to overhaul DW's stat spread (and for now I'll leave off all the subsystems that would impact, like encumbrance and HP), I think I'd probably base the stats off of motivations for going out and becoming a murderhobo. Something like:
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Jan 5, 2014 03:03
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So I decided to kill two birds with one stone and I've worked up this Infernal Playbook! It's a modular playbook made out of a bunch of compendium classes along with some core moves which everyone gets - it's also an attempt to do Exalted with DW. It's not done yet but I'd love some feedback on what's there! Edit: Just to be clear these are the same Infernals as the ones from this awful, awful book but these ones are cool I promise. Bigup DJ fucked around with this message at 07:15 on Jan 5, 2014 |
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Jan 5, 2014 07:09
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Finally got another player to start GMing, transferred the game over to his hands, and introduced my character, Princess Badroul Badour (thanks Glazius). Was very fun to play this game, finally, and see it from the perspective of both player and GM. This class playbook, props to your work, allowed for a very interesting princess. I am enamored with the variety one can get from specialization and Worldly Concerns choice. One notable moment, Badroul rolled 12 to Defy Danger with STR (she's CHA/STR focused), and used her signature weapon (from Worldly Concerns - Fighter; a regal, ancient, huge gauntlet, studded with barnacles and gems, sharp at every angle, the Jewel-Crusted Hand of Dagon) to punch a bandit's sword, mid-swing, right into his own face. A little background on some of the campaign, and some of the characters, important things so far, stuff that gives context to the forthcoming nonsense: - Setting: A fast-growing nation on the brink of industrial revolution, Tintagol, attempts to establish colonies on The Savage Lands, thick with jungle, swamp, and intelligent life. A collaborative homebrew setting deal. Some players chose to play as a person from the more European flavored, traditional fantasy type settler nation, a religiously zealous, imperialist matriarchy, with a population of mostly humans, elves, dwarves, and halflings (with the occasional domesticated animal/slave/novelty token hire.) Others chose to play as a native of the unexplored continent, bustling and lush, with several intelligent, organized factions, hitherto unknown to the holy imperial queendom. Four ships were sent to colonize the Savage Lands. Three have anchored and disembarked their crew, the fourth, a ship transporting the holy imperial princess, was capsized in mysterious circumstances offshore, and the princess lost to sea. A drunk boatswain reports seeing fish that climbed and fought as men, but is ignored. The next highest ranking person on site is somehow Thuuco Big-Attack, an outside consultant who, as a Naturalist, is technically treated as a member of the Royal Court. - Thuuco Big-Attack, a PC: A minotaur who spends more time plotting how to steamroll things than actually steamrolling things. Physically frail, for a minotaur. Sold his race into slavery to the holy imperial queendom in return for a military position as Naturalist. The surname "Big-Attack" is one given to him by his family after this act, and refers to his betrayal. He committed the Big Attack. His job, on the books, is to analyze foreign races, and relate to their cultures, to best determine how to overtake them. He is driven by a desperate need to preserve his own life, the hunger for power over others, and little else. - Cubensis, a PC: A Myconid shaman. An experimental humanoid extension of the immense mycelial mat stretching throughout the soil and roots of much of the visible forest. Expands the scope of the natural relationship mushrooms have with the pathways of life and death, moving from the physical into the spiritual. An observer from a society alien to human understanding. Communicates with spirits, ghosts, and ancestors the way someone just learning a language might converse with a native. Simple, but mostly effective. Driven by a desire for ecological balance, to help others move to the next stage (growth, life, death, another place), and to learn. - Kilanu, a PC: A Kenku spirit-catcher. Could not attend this sesh, was in the trees spying the whole time. In today's session, while we took shelter in a treetop city of elves (concurrently, discovered that elves are somehow also native to the savage lands) Thuuco Big-Attack betrayed everyone. To do this, he waited until he was alone in a room with his own subordinate, a royal scribe, then murdered that person, and framed the act with an impulsive lie as a political assassination committed by "some other elves." When asked where the assassin(s) fled to, Thuuco claimed "he, they" descended to the forest floor before a good look could be gotten at their faces. The elves (currently in a civil conflict of their own) bought the line, and blamed an unseen group of "disagreeable" elves, while they gestured to the land below. Their military attentions get diverted to the north, in preparation for a possible battle. Thuuco's private goal to destabilize the region's most powerful military in favor of the colonizers completed, he fled, and started massing men and resources at the Southern coast. Then we did a time skip, of a month, or two months, and the guy playing Thuuco started GMing. He introduced a scene where his minotaur, now in formal late-1700s english style business attire, was doing a groundbreaking ceremony on a site (a section of young forest) about to be clear-cut and developed on. He is giving a stump speech.The guy playing the mushroom man is forging alliances between elves, myconids, and bullywugs, helping to plan attacks on Thuuco Big-Attack's forces, and creating a network of informers. We go back to the minotaur. He raises the ceremonial golden shovel. A grip of Sahuagin crawl and jump out of the river, accompanied by a human in a diving suit. Panic erupts, and eventually subsides into shock, as the human removes their helmet and steps out of the suit, casually throws on a stylish cape, and announces herself as the Princess of Tintagol, in front of like half of the people in the colonizing party and a big catered table. At this point, Cubensis and his buddy "The Bad Frog" stop spying on the proceedings from afar and just leave. I get 3 Poise for making a dramatic entrance, and then propose a trade agreement to mutually benefit my subjects from Tintagol, and my new fishie friends (who are all crossing their arms like as a group, and wearing black goggles, leaning on stuff in ways they think look tough, and repeating stuff I say, adding, like, "yeah!" "yeah, boss said!" "yeah!" "great point, boss!" "boss is wise, and strong.") This was shot down as Thuuco started mouthing off, using ad-hominem and strawman attacks to demean the Princess' character. He suggested that all the soldiers, construction workers, and farmers take a step back, take an inventory of their satisfaction under the current authority, him, and compare that to their satisfaction under the princess, formerly (which they remember as "being hungry on a boat", because they're idiot mooks.) Rolls are made that determine they agree with Thuuco, and the situation escalates in tension. I smile and sweetly suggest that we part amicably before me and my fishies decide we get to cook and eat beef tonight. I roll Winsome, and get an 8. Thuuco becomes infatuated with the rebellious Badroul. I leave in disgust, my Dear Friends, the Sahuagin Yakuza, right behind me. Dungeon World is now the source of the most fun I've had with a tabletop game, as both a GM and player. This is good poo poo. Under the vegetable fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Jan 5, 2014 |
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Jan 5, 2014 09:11
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I didn't intend it that way, but drat if the Princess doesn't work great as a mob boss.
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Jan 5, 2014 14:17
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Kaja Rainbow posted:That's a pretty interesting stat spread though it does have a certain flavor--it'd be a top choice for me if I was doing a comedy take on murderhobo style fantasy. In such a case, I'd perhaps rename Altruistic to something like Goody-Goody. You could definitely use it for a parody game, but it's just as easy to slant it toward a more serious game about the kind of psychological damage that prompts men and women to strap on armor and go loot ancient tombs. I'm thinking in particular of that quote about adventurers from Perdido Street Station (which I think is also in Dungeon World somewhere): Perdido Street Station posted:They were hardy and dangerous, lawless, stripped of allegiance or morality, living off their wits, stealing and killing, hiring themselves out to whoever and whatever came. They were inspired by dubious virtues.
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Jan 5, 2014 18:15
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I meant to post a response to Kaja Rainbow's Dragon earlier, but was busy around the holidays. Now I'm completely snowed in and have a chance to respond. I think the class is a good start and overlaps some of the ideas that were rattling around in my head. A point of difference is that I was thinking it would begin play as a small/young dragon and grow with advances (since Council of Wyrms started everyone as hatchlings--who could take down ogres).quote:Appetite: Appetites instead of alignments are definitely the way to go, but I feel like there should an option that's not quite so self-centered. Maybe Greed, Hunger and Knowledge (thinking back to D&D's metallic dragons sometimes being described as curious, and Knowledge is definitely something that can be hoarded)? I also don't know if Appetites should tie into move choice; perhaps the Appetite moves could instead be Advances? quote:Adaptation: Aerial, Earth/Subterranean and Aquatic were the three "races" I was thinking of as well. One thing though, I figured all Dragons would have some kind of starting Fly move, but they would be clumsy, difficult fliers and only Aerial Dragons could manage with any sort of grace. As for Subterranean Dragons, maybe letting them burrow through solid rock as well? quote:Starting Moves: The playbook seems a little front loaded with moves, and I'm not sure I like the Satiation mechanic, but that's just because I don't like tracking special class resources in general. The Dragon race from the Dungeon World guide represents their hungers by making them mark off two rations instead of one when the would need to use rations. quote:Claw, Teeth, and Tail Claws, Teeth, Tail and Vast and Scaled work for larger dragons, but I was thinking that players start as hatchlings/little dragons and get bigger. I also think they should get to pick from a couple tags rather than just getting automatically assigned Forceful and Messy. quote:Scorched Earth I like Scorched Earth. I think the wording could be tweaked a little, but I'm not sure how yet. quote:Advanced Moves 2-5: As for Advances, Lower Form was exactly something I had in mind (with perhaps extra forms gained through a higher level advance), as is Ancient Wisdom. Other Advances could be the Appetite moves as noted above, as well as: getting larger, gaining access to sorcery and innate spells (perhaps the Dragon Magic move from the Dungeon World guide), better flight/snatching things in flight, becoming more "elemental" in nature (burning blood, radiating heat, etc), commanding a group of thralls, the ability to detect or monitor treasure from afar, Draconic Tongue (ability to speak with anything), demanding tribute/sacrifices, "Serpentine Tongue" and "The Superior Species" moves from the Dungeon World guide's Ancient Wyrm CC. I also have a list of phrases that sound dragon-y, but I have no idea what they would represent for Advances: the Great Game, Bones and All, Herald of Woe, Dragonrage, Draconic Prophecy, Rune-Carved Scales, Dragonheart, Healing Slumber, My Wings are a Hurricane, Deafening Roar. A dragon's Look would of course have to include things like: Serpentine, Furred, Feathered, Horned, Bat Wings, Vestigial Wings, Insect Wings, etc.
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Jan 5, 2014 19:05
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Thanks for the commentary and suggestions on my class. Yes, I was thinking primarily of big dragons, but it might be interesting to give people a choice on whether to be big. I know there're things like psuedodragons and drakes and whatnot, not to mention your idea of starting off as young dragons. Though it kinds seems to me like it should take longer than the typical DW campaign for them to reach large sizes, unless the campaign featured time skips of years or decades. Subterranean dragons... I'm not sure about that one since I wanted to do landweller sorts that weren't necessarily burrowers. Perhaps adding another habitat might be a good idea. And tweaking and renaming the original "subterranean" one "Land Wyrm" and the others "Sky Wyrm", "Sea Wyrm", and "Burrowing Wyrm" or "Subterranean Wyrm" or "Earth Wyrm". I think in the end your comment about the starting moves being frontloaded stem partly from your own differing opinion on what a dragon class should be, although I did have minor concerns about giving them slightly too many non-fluff moves while trying to jam basic dragonhood in. Perhaps turning the Appetite moves into Advances like you suggested would relieve that, and I'm going to delete the satiation related move. Which leaves me with three. I'll consider how to tweak the starting moves now. I do think special resources work well for some classes, but I kinda had a feeling dragons weren't the right class for it. So Satiation's gone away. It's not like the resource would get a whole lot of use in other moves. Giving XP for fulfilling Appetites should be sufficient incentive to drive dragons toward fulfilling their desires. And the Appetites were distinctly oriented toward a particular kind of dragon in fiction, so I'll probably add another to broaden things out a little. Yeah, I probably should give options beyond just Forceful and Messy for dragons' natural weaponry. Again, that was intended mainly for large and destructive dragons, but there're more dragons in fiction than that. I'll consider your advanced move ideas--there're some good ones. Though 'finding treasure' is kinda covered by Golden Dreams already. Kaja Rainbow fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Jan 5, 2014 |
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Jan 5, 2014 19:47
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GimpInBlack posted:If I were to overhaul DW's stat spread (and for now I'll leave off all the subsystems that would impact, like encumbrance and HP), I think I'd probably base the stats off of motivations for going out and becoming a murderhobo. Something like: If we're keeping six and without intentially copying someone else's, I'd hazard a try at: -Brutish -Steadfast -Keen -Clever -Sly -Sensitive
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Jan 6, 2014 00:29
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- Fighting Man - Cleric - Magic User 
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Jan 6, 2014 01:35
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Strong, Speedy, Smart, Sneaky, Sweet, Soul, because alliteration is cute.
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Jan 6, 2014 02:44
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Xelkelvos posted:If we're keeping six and without intentially copying someone else's, I'd hazard a try at: I cannot stop reading that first one as "British" when I scroll past it.
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Jan 6, 2014 02:53
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It was an off week from the unusual DW game, and a player wanted to run a game but wanted something very simple, so we use World of Dungeons. One of the players inquired "Couldn't you just run this with no stats and just use skills instead kind of like FATE?". It got me thinking it could work in something like World of Dungeons that doesn't use "moves" per say, because so far the only complaint my players have with DW is remembering all the possible moves and bonuses they get depending on what they do (they have a problem with fiction first, always have).
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Jan 6, 2014 17:37
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Fenarisk posted:It was an off week from the unusual DW game, and a player wanted to run a game but wanted something very simple, so we use World of Dungeons. One of the players inquired "Couldn't you just run this with no stats and just use skills instead kind of like FATE?". It got me thinking it could work in something like World of Dungeons that doesn't use "moves" per say, because so far the only complaint my players have with DW is remembering all the possible moves and bonuses they get depending on what they do (they have a problem with fiction first, always have).
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Jan 6, 2014 18:10
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I remember there was a really popular one-page dungeon written for Dungeon World a while back, centered around a minotaur and an awesome twist ending. Does anyone still have a link to it? I can't find it anymore.
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Jan 6, 2014 18:13
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ProfessorProf posted:I remember there was a really popular one-page dungeon written for Dungeon World a while back, centered around a minotaur and an awesome twist ending. Does anyone still have a link to it? I can't find it anymore. Heart of the Minotaur from the One Page Dungeon Contest: http://campaignwiki.org/wiki/DungeonMaps/One_Page_Dungeon_Contest_2011
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Jan 6, 2014 18:25
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PerniciousKnid posted:Besides, it's not like more than one person actually needs to remember the moves, you just narrate what your character does, and when the outcome is doubtful/a move is triggered the GM tells you what to add to your 2d6 roll and the consequences. This doesn't apply as much to advanced moves though. For instance the Templar has advanced moves that trigger damage when he's attacked, that allow him bonus damage/wrath when in specific situations, and bonuses/unlocks when he deals penance. He has to keep in mind 4 of his advanced moves for something as simple as "how do I do a decent amount of damage and stay alive wading into this group of enemies vs. going one on one with the big guy". It kind of sucks because it isn't just "I leap over the fallen pillar and bash into the enemy over his hoard", it turns into "I wade into the hoard first because getting hit deals an automatic 3 damage killing most of them that touch me which won't get through my armor usually but if it does I can penance the damage to gain wrath and at full wrath deal +1d6 to the bad guy plus if I stay focusing on him and use the paladin multiclass move I do +2d6 as well if I ignore the minions". This all happens out of fiction and then applies those choices to the fiction in a backwards way.
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Jan 6, 2014 19:05
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I guess I haven't played enough to come across a situation triggering four advanced class moves.
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Jan 6, 2014 20:23
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To be fair it's really only a problem with the Templar, and to a lesser degree the Slayer. Everyone else just gets neat stuff to do or expanded options, it's not as min max focused.
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Jan 6, 2014 20:32
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Fenarisk posted:To be fair it's really only a problem with the Templar, and to a lesser degree the Slayer. Everyone else just gets neat stuff to do or expanded options, it's not as min max focused. Grim World's Templar and Slayer are also probably the worst published playbooks out there, so that has something to do with it. Not power-wise, mind, just design wise.
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Jan 6, 2014 21:41
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gnome7 posted:Grim World's Templar and Slayer are also probably the worst published playbooks out there, so that has something to do with it. Not power-wise, mind, just design wise. Yeah if I were to do it all over again I would have found something other than the Templar, but the player loved the concept. And we are using the Slayer from this thread (the goon one). Which, by the way, I have no idea how to balance the monstrous regeneration advanced move 
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Jan 6, 2014 22:14
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Fenarisk posted:"I wade into the hoard first because getting hit deals an automatic 3 damage killing most of them that touch me which won't get through my armor usually but if it does I can penance the damage to gain wrath and at full wrath deal +1d6 to the bad guy plus if I stay focusing on him and use the paladin multiclass move I do +2d6 as well if I ignore the minions". I am pretty sure this is how an android plays Dungeon World. Please examine your friend to be sure he is not sent from the past to kill John Connor.
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Jan 6, 2014 22:31
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EscortMission posted:I am pretty sure this is how an android plays Dungeon World. Please examine your friend to be sure he is not sent from the past to kill John Connor. He is the quintessential min maxer but he's not insufferable. His favorite system of all time is shadowrun 4th edition. I just have to plan for sessions that have one character able to normally do 1d8 + 2d6 + 1d6 on each attack. In dungeon world
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Jan 6, 2014 23:12
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I would make the downsides to him failing hack and slash rolls do nasty things to him all the time. Throw him across the room, make the force of his attack collapse the floor, trip him, make him lose grip on his weapon. Damage doesn't work on guys like that.
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Jan 6, 2014 23:35
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Fenarisk posted:I just have to plan for sessions that have one character able to normally do 1d8 + 2d6 + 1d6 on each attack. In dungeon world Cap the maximum amount of damage a character is allowed to deal in one attack and make him take different advances, if that really bothers you.
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Jan 7, 2014 00:03
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EscortMission posted:I am pretty sure this is how an android plays Dungeon World. Please examine your friend to be sure he is not sent from the past to kill John Connor. When you're in the desert, walking alone in the sand, and you see a tortoise crawling toward you, roll+Wis. To actually contribute to the conversation, like 100 HOGS said, show him the downsides of his rashness. Not necessarily just when he fails a roll--remember that you can make a hard move whenever he hands you a golden opportunity. "I wade into the horde first because--" "Hold up. You're charging headlong into a horde of nearly 100 kobolds without any kind of backup or plan to keep them from swarming you? Are you sure? Because with that many of the little bastards, they'll overwhelm you with sheer weight of numbers." "Well, yeah, getting hit lets me automatically deal 3 damage, which should kill any of them." "Yeah. Okay, sure, you kill the first, like, half-dozen that come at you. Then one kobold, bigger than his buddies and apparently really eager to see how the Dragon God rewards martyrs, barks something in their yippy little dog-lizard language and about 30 of them swarm over you. I mean, they're just hanging off your shield and your sword arm and grabbing your ankles like little kids, and after a couple of seconds the flailing mass drags you down. Now you're on your back with about 400 pounds of kobold stomping all over you. For now your armor's holding the weight, but they're starting to gnaw at the straps and pull at the joints. What do you do?"
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Jan 7, 2014 01:33
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100 HOGS AGREE posted:I would make the downsides to him failing hack and slash rolls do nasty things to him all the time. Throw him across the room, make the force of his attack collapse the floor, trip him, make him lose grip on his weapon. This is what I've been doing. He's also the strongest/beefiest so I toss a lot of poo poo at the two squishier people and make him decide whether they take some hits or he gives up his Exterminatus target, and he will usually follow his bonds to protect them and be the "tank" of the group. I don't mind the high damage, I've been tossing things in where they have to do something to allow them to do some damage, and I know it's the part of the game he likes the most/shines. To be fair he will usually defy danger using strength or constitution and actually laughs when he rolls under 6 and just takes the full on max damage, so he's an okay guy, it just takes some more planning than usual.
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Jan 7, 2014 03:56
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 11:26 |
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I find that dealing with my problem characters is somehow easier in Dungeon World. Having a single player deal four times as much damage as the others would wreck a 3.5 game, but in Dungeon World instead of just being mechanical atrocities, that character's actions immediately turn into fiction supporting that they're a huge, dangerous threat. My players rarely feel as bad being singled out for bad things happening because if bad things happen they aren't being screwed over, they're being given obstacles to overcome, and the ones that aren't being targeted have a huge diversion to distract the biggest opponents so they can go perform other actions free of the biggest distractions. I dunno I think that's pretty cool. 
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Jan 7, 2014 04:20
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