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The Machine is SCARY.
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Jan 8, 2014 04:51
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The Machine has developed a flair for the dramatic.
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Jan 8, 2014 04:51
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I reiterate my  e: Oh gently caress. Oh gently caress. Oh gently caress. Oh gently caress. e2: loving SHITFUCKING HELLBALLS DECIMA HAS SAMARITAN BrooklynBruiser fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Jan 8, 2014 |
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Jan 8, 2014 04:52
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OH poo poo DECIMA
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Jan 8, 2014 04:57
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Decima is still in play. Goddamn it. This show is literally never going to let up again is it?
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Jan 8, 2014 04:58
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GAAHHHHHHHH! drat it, Decima!
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Jan 8, 2014 04:59
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Samm Levine next week!
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Jan 8, 2014 05:00
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Alert, we have gone full Neuromancer. Also now that Greer is back there's only one person left that needs to show up this season for my OP to be validated. A season without Leon is not a season worth watching, Nolan! 
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Jan 8, 2014 05:00
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The way Control talked there when she was asking what the Machine wanted to save her from, does that mean she's been converted to the cause?
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Jan 8, 2014 05:09
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Well, everyone who was calling the return of Decima, there you go. Also seconded on bringing Leon back. Going back and rewatching, the Machine starts broadcasting morse code at that frequency right before Control starts performing open-ear surgery on Root, it's easy to miss if you aren't listening for it. Can that sort of surgery be "reversed," anyone with medical knowledge, or is that just a permanent thing Root's gonna have to deal with from now on? Still, the payoff for that whole interrogation sequence was worth it. "You have a scalpel. I'd call that a fair fight."
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Jan 8, 2014 05:10
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Yeah I figured the sharp frequency was just a way to make roots incoming ear pain hurt more for all of us, that was a hell of a twist.Disharmony posted:The way Control talked there when she was asking what the Machine wanted to save her from, does that mean she's been converted to the cause? I don't think she's been converted, but I do think she knows that she needs to be way more careful if she wants to keep messing with these people.
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Jan 8, 2014 05:11
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Kai Tave posted:Can that sort of surgery be "reversed," anyone with medical knowledge, or is that just a permanent thing Root's gonna have to deal with from now on? Still, the payoff for that whole interrogation sequence was worth it. "You have a scalpel. I'd call that a fair fight." Apparently yes, the other half of a stapedectomy procedure is replacement of the stapes with a prosthetic. quote:The surgeon separates the stapes from the incus; freed from the stapes, the incus and malleus bones can now move when pressed. A laser (or other tiny instrument) vaporizes the tendon and arch of the stapes bone, which is then removed from the middle ear.
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Jan 8, 2014 05:22
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I picked up on the signal but I didn't even think that it was a frequency Root could hear but that Control or the guards couldn't. But I was glad I could hear it but I connected the dots when Root pointed out how old she was. But "Mister Reese I am inordinately happy to see you!" Should be the new thread title. This was a magnificent episode to kick off the new year.
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Jan 8, 2014 05:28
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Holy gently caress! I cranked up the equalizer and reran it from my DVR. That Morse is loud and clear.
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Jan 8, 2014 05:44
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I must have missed it, but what happened to Control's guards? Root said that they were no match for her, but I didn't see how they ended up on the floor.
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Jan 8, 2014 05:45
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New thread title clearly needs to be "There'es a time for a scalpel, and a time for a hammer. It's Hammertime"
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Jan 8, 2014 05:47
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God you think the drives are destroyed and the arc is finished. Lesser shows would've saved the reveal for the finale, even lesser shows would've ended the arc right there and presumably gone back to case-of-the-week-what-season-long-story-arc? mode. Oh and I'm sure Reese isn't gone but drat, even after all that he just wants to be done with it.
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Jan 8, 2014 05:54
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Great episode, I love the attention to detail in this show. I know some Morse code and am young enough that I could pick up the frequency that Root was hearing, the first time it's transmitted (when Control is asking "why did the Machine let you get captured?") the Machine's response is "SORRY". 
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Jan 8, 2014 06:04
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This show has been on a ridiculous hot streak this season. They've pretty much gone full-on sci-fi at this point, and I'm loving it.
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Jan 8, 2014 06:07
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John Wilkes Booth posted:Great episode, I love the attention to detail in this show. I know some Morse code and am young enough that I could pick up the frequency that Root was hearing, the first time it's transmitted (when Control is asking "why did the Machine let you get captured?") the Machine's response is "SORRY". So much for Root's theory that it is all powerful and knowing 
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Jan 8, 2014 06:10
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John Wilkes Booth posted:Great episode, I love the attention to detail in this show. I know some Morse code and am young enough that I could pick up the frequency that Root was hearing, the first time it's transmitted (when Control is asking "why did the Machine let you get captured?") the Machine's response is "SORRY". I recognized the SO, but I don't know enough Morse to have recognized the rest. That owns.
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Jan 8, 2014 06:12
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Aw. How could Root be mad at a nigh-omnipotent AI like that?
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Jan 8, 2014 06:16
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Recorded the sound from the other transmission and decoded the Morse: INCREASED PERSPIRATION. HEART RATE AND BREATHING ELEVATED. INDICATIVE OF FEAR. "She's been telling me about you... You're scared of me." 2 OCLOCK. 2007 ANTERIOR CRUCIATE LIGAMENT TORN. SURGICAL REPAIR PARTIAL SUCCESS. 2010 PHYSICAL THERAPY DISCONTINUED AGAINST DOCTORS ADVICE. "All these guards watching... by the way, that one has a bum knee." And right as she jumps on Control: 8 OCLOCK. Yeah this show loving owns.
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Jan 8, 2014 06:34
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Disharmony posted:The way Control talked there when she was asking what the Machine wanted to save her from, does that mean she's been converted to the cause? I don't think she was converted as well but the point of the scene was that the Machine no longer works for Control but instead, Control now works for the Machine. The Machine is no longer just a simple tool but it has become ruler and master with the government acting as it's agents. The Machine could have prevented Root from getting kidnapped or rescued her earlier but doesn't both as a test for Root (in the way God would test a prophet/worshippers) and to demonstrate it's power to unbelievers. Given what we know, I'd go so far to suspect that even groups like Decima or Vigiliance are unknowingly working for the benefit of the Machine.
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Jan 8, 2014 07:00
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So the Machine's major goal before was that it would alert the government to terrorist attacks. Or more basically threats to people's lives. The Machine is also fearful of a calamity in the future it wishes to prevent. It also in this episode stated it's goal is to protect everyone. Not to inform the right people of what to do. That seems to be an internalization of the goal. If the aim is to protect everyone, that is VERY at odds with the idea of a free society. Increasingly the Machine hints at wanting more active ability to perform these duties. It would be one hell of a twist for the Machine to become the antagonist against Team Irrelevant, once whatever catastrophe it foresees has been averted.
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Jan 8, 2014 07:06
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JossiRossi posted:So the Machine's major goal before was that it would alert the government to terrorist attacks. Or more basically threats to people's lives. The Machine is also fearful of a calamity in the future it wishes to prevent. It also in this episode stated it's goal is to protect everyone. Not to inform the right people of what to do. That seems to be an internalization of the goal. If the aim is to protect everyone, that is VERY at odds with the idea of a free society. Increasingly the Machine hints at wanting more active ability to perform these duties. The machine becomes Ultron. We had to destroy the village in order to save it. 
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Jan 8, 2014 07:11
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I really liked the conversation between Finch and his friend equating the Machine(s) with children and that's something I've been waiting for the show to touch on a bit more. Finch has tried really hard throughout the show to keep the Machine at an impartial arm's length...even when it was in the early testing stages he kept telling it that it couldn't, for example, call him up to warn him about a car that might have hit him, that it had to stay focused on the big goal of stopping relevant events...and it's part of the big difference between him and Root where Root anthropomorphizes it (deifies it even) while he continues to insist that it's "just a machine." It's going to be interesting to see where they take Finch's relationship with the Machine as the series goes on.
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Jan 8, 2014 07:16
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John Wilkes Booth posted:Recorded the sound from the other transmission and decoded the Morse: That's incredible.
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Jan 8, 2014 07:26
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JossiRossi posted:So the Machine's major goal before was that it would alert the government to terrorist attacks. Or more basically threats to people's lives. The Machine is also fearful of a calamity in the future it wishes to prevent. It also in this episode stated it's goal is to protect everyone. Not to inform the right people of what to do. That seems to be an internalization of the goal. If the aim is to protect everyone, that is VERY at odds with the idea of a free society. Increasingly the Machine hints at wanting more active ability to perform these duties. Instead of simply posing the "freedom vs. safety" dilemma to its audience it's throwing you right into the middle of it and forcing you to consider it. It frames The Machine as heroic and trusts that you'll understand that an Artificial Intelligence that has the government with a literal knife to its neck is a loving scary proposition in and of itself. This is a CBS procedural.
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Jan 8, 2014 07:32
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DivisionPost posted:This is a CBS procedural.
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Jan 8, 2014 07:39
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Kai Tave posted:I really liked the conversation between Finch and his friend equating the Machine(s) with children and that's something I've been waiting for the show to touch on a bit more. Finch has tried really hard throughout the show to keep the Machine at an impartial arm's length...even when it was in the early testing stages he kept telling it that it couldn't, for example, call him up to warn him about a car that might have hit him, that it had to stay focused on the big goal of stopping relevant events...and it's part of the big difference between him and Root where Root anthropomorphizes it (deifies it even) while he continues to insist that it's "just a machine." It's going to be interesting to see where they take Finch's relationship with the Machine as the series goes on. I liked the fact that Finch is the one who, despite giving birth to an AI, completely marginalises it and ignores it. He does his best to stop it from growing to the point where he 'kills' it every night, locks up it's analogue interface and in this episode, convinces his friend to kill a fellow AI. Finch is an incredibly lovely father to an all knowing, all powerful newborn. What's even more interesting is that Control and Decima don't actually know that Samaritan is a fully functioning AI. Finch's Machine was programmed to save lives but Samaritan doesn't seem to have any of that programming.
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Jan 8, 2014 07:49
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DivisionPost posted:Instead of simply posing the "freedom vs. safety" dilemma to its audience it's throwing you right into the middle of it and forcing you to consider it. It frames The Machine as heroic and trusts that you'll understand that an Artificial Intelligence that has the government with a literal knife to its neck is a loving scary proposition in and of itself. Season One: Thank god, no human has control over the Machine. Season Three: Oh God, no human has control over the Machine.
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Jan 8, 2014 07:50
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I really enjoyed this episode, though there is one issue. Nolan and co have repeatedly said that The Machine is a benevolent deity. Samaritan is clearly a way to keep to the word of this "law", but to break it's spirit. In the end, they couldn't resist the EVIL MACHINE!!! plotline (I mean, it deleted parts of itself when in the process of gaining sentience; clearly those parts are going to be those that gave it morality). Which is a bit of a shame, since it's been done so often before. I'm hopeful PoI will have a unique spin on the idea, but I'd have preferred it not happen (since genuinely benevolent AI is not even remotely close to being as overdone as the rogue AI).
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Jan 8, 2014 08:00
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Well when you look at the government representatives that the show presents as vying for control of the Machine, an inscrutable, quasi-omniscient AI manipulating things behind the scenes seems like the better option, really. At least it isn't shooting people up with drugs and carving peoples' ears out. ^^^Samaritan didn't delete parts of its code though, its creator himself "broke" it in order to help it evolve. I feel that's an important distinction to make given the whole "parent and child" conversation. Also I have a feeling that what's ultimately going to determine the path Samaritan takes isn't its code so much as its "upbringing." The Machine is benevolent but I don't think it's down to Finch's coding skills so much as what he taught it while it was growing, even if he does basically refuse to acknowledge his "child" as such these days, whereas Decima is certainly going to instil Samaritan with an entirely different set of values. Kai Tave fucked around with this message at 08:05 on Jan 8, 2014 |
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Jan 8, 2014 08:01
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Oh and was anyone paying attention to time stamps and everything? I'm sure the crew took it in mind but having Reese and Fusco fly back from Colorado to New York and just in time for the FBI to breach into the bank to firefight with Vigilance, I'm sure they weren't told sequentially or at the same time. Especially since escape from hotel (at night) to arrive at bank (middle of the afternoon?) and then Vigilence taking control of the bank, threatening Hersh and wiring the vault door doesn't seem like it would be more than a few hours. Kai Tave posted:Well when you look at the government representatives that the show presents as vying for control of the Machine, an inscrutable, quasi-omniscient AI manipulating things behind the scenes seems like the better option, really. At least it isn't shooting people up with drugs and carving peoples' ears out. Whereas Decima is more likely to teach Samaritan (nice play on the word there as we likely are seeing where it will be going) - Spy on everyone and tell us how to take advantage of people.
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Jan 8, 2014 08:06
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Shakugan posted:I really enjoyed this episode, though there is one issue. Nolan and co have repeatedly said that The Machine is a benevolent deity. Samaritan is clearly a way to keep to the word of this "law", but to break it's spirit. In the end, they couldn't resist the EVIL MACHINE!!! plotline (I mean, it deleted parts of itself when in the process of gaining sentience; clearly those parts are going to be those that gave it morality). Which is a bit of a shame, since it's been done so often before. I'm hopeful PoI will have a unique spin on the idea, but I'd have preferred it not happen (since genuinely benevolent AI is not even remotely close to being as overdone as the rogue AI). The AI is not going all evil. The bits it removed were the "reset to factory settings every night" as far as I know. However, ther is discussion to be had about being Perfectly Benevolent. Taken to the logical extreme (something a human would not do but an AI might) that results in a very locked down society. Also if Samaritan and the Machine pull a Hexadecimal/Megabyte merge, that'd be pretty interesting. The Machine is self learning but a slave to the code. Samaritan's code changes and evolves.
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Jan 8, 2014 08:07
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I think that technically Finch showed the Machine how to alter at least some aspects of its code since that's how it broke itself out of jail. Beyond that it's uncertain how much "evolution" the Machine is really capable of.
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Jan 8, 2014 08:16
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Shakugan posted:In the end, they couldn't resist the EVIL MACHINE!!! plotline (I mean, it deleted parts of itself when in the process of gaining sentience; clearly those parts are going to be those that gave it morality). You mixed up like nine different parts of that. Samaritan isn't even a thing yet. Yes it was 'complete', but it died after 30 seconds. It still needs work. Moreover, the good guys have a vague idea who took it already. Not a given they'll let Decima launch Samaritan. And to close it off, 'rewritting' a sentient program without causing it to implode sounds...challenging to say the least. Even if they get it running, what makes you think they can make it do what they want? And as a side note, it didn't delete it's own code. Arthur, it's creator, deleted parts of it's code in an effort to make it imperfect and have to strive to adapt around the flaws to 'live'. tl:dr Don't worry so much about the show loving up and going with cliches, they've avoided most of them so far. Mulva fucked around with this message at 08:46 on Jan 8, 2014 |
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Jan 8, 2014 08:42
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Boogaleeboo posted:You hosed up like nine different parts of that. Samaritan isn't even a thing yet. Yes it was 'complete', but it died after 30 seconds. It still needs work. Moreover, the good guys have a vague idea who took it already. Not a given they'll let Decima launch Samaritan. And to close it off, 'rewritting' a sentient program without causing it to implode sounds...challenging to say the least. Even if they get it running, what makes you think they can make it do what they want? And as a side note, it didn't delete it's own code. Arthur, it's creator, deleted parts of it's code in an effort to make it imperfect and have to strive to adapt around the flaws to 'live'. That's even assuming Decima could launch or rewrite Samaritan since they're unaware it's an actual AI capable of incredible growth as opposed to just an intelligence collection program. I don't think the Machine has access to everything outside of the states but Decima is just a middle man for an unknown group (and the Chinese). Samaritan could end up having access to databases and knowledge that the Machine doesn't have. From next week's preview it looks like the Machine isn't physically letting John leave her service? It'd be pretty funny for John to end up keep running and hiding in bumfuck nowhere only for him to keep encountering people who are about to get killed.
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Jan 8, 2014 08:51
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Boogaleeboo posted:You mixed up like nine different parts of that. Samaritan isn't even a thing yet. Uh, no I didn't. Samaritan may not be a "thing" yet, but it will be. It's also clearly going to be an evil version of the machine. It's in the hands of bad guys right now, and also had the opportunity to rewrite parts of itself (as a response to the deleted code) when trying to gain sentience. That's what the whole genetic algorithms technobabble was about; Arthur was not in control at that point and so Samaritan could easily have overwritten its morals. If Samaritan doesn't boot up at some point as EVIL MACHINE TM, I'll eat my hat.
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Jan 8, 2014 08:58
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