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I have to wonder about the significance of the shrine and the festival that was brought up this episode. Gin said that the dancing thing was supposed to be only for the short term but I am starting to think that dancing as a ritual is still going to play a role in future episodes. I'm looking forward to whatever comes out of it.
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Jan 6, 2014 15:13
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Rei_ posted:My money is really on Hase getting Cherry Arms, they're probably going to wind up recruiting him or something. Before this episode my guess was gonna be Yuuya(possibly as a brainwashed experiment kind of deal) but now it feels like a coinflip between those two.
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Jan 7, 2014 05:54
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I keep forgetting that Bravo's actor is a guy named Metal Yoshida and he's in a band called NINJAMAN JAPAN.
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Jan 7, 2014 07:33
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Man, Hase in this episode is just breaking my heart. I hope he does get cherry or just anything that puts him back in the game.
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Jan 7, 2014 08:56
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I kind of felt Hase's actor couldn't quite hit the right level of expressiveness here, I think he was overacting after his loss where a bit more choking up and hesitation at the realization of his powerlessness would've hit harder, especially because it would've been at odds with what little we've seen of him as a brash one-note second-string Rider. But that's just my take on his performance. Though whether his arc is "falls victim to temptation by joining the villains and getting a new belt" and not "falls victim to temptation by biting the forbidden fruit and possibly becoming a monster" is up for grabs, judging by the preview. It would be a shame if his character arc were cut short when he's finally got an interesting angle to latch on to. Kouta's actor has shown a pretty solid range of expression and he can really sell a scene, goofy and serious alike. I'm also rather impressed by Kouta's choreography as Armored Rider Gaim. His transformations becoming more dynamic and less "staged" as his dawning sense of heroism grows has been a nice touch. While other Riders still rely on more stolid poses to transform, Kouta flips on his belt with a running start and jumps off of overpasses to let his Orange catch him in midair. He also does dynamic mid-fight mode changes, incorporating the quirks of his transformation as attacks and defenses. He's stopped being some kid playing a goofy game and has started on the path of being a hero, and I like how his character arc has been progressing thus far. It feels like a natural progression for him. At the start it was hard to really buy Kouta, the cocky and dubiously reliable ex-street dancer as a hero, but as poo poo gets ever more real he starts stepping up his game. He might have some emotional dependency on being "the hero" (this is an idea Urobuchi has explored before), but that only gives more room to add texture to his character. Despite how impressed I am with Kouta, Micchy consistently steals any scene he's in, both because of his actor's performance and because of his own strength as a character. His motivations and internal conflicts are the most interesting on a surface level, and the dynamics between him and Kouta are providing a good chunk of the show's heart right now. Not just through their bonds as friends and confidants, but also through the tensions starting to surface between them. It's been a recurring sentiment in the threat that Micchy seems to be quite a few people's favorite character for reasons already stated, and I agree with it wholeheartedly. If he were to defect to his brother, that would break my heart. And I can foresee this becoming a possibility once his secret's outed to his brother and he's given an offer he can't refuse, possibly to protect his friends--Kouta included. This might sound dreadfully serious for Dance Crew Fruit Rider's lighthearted first ten episodes, but if the remaining forty or so maintain the now imminent serious tone shift, it wouldn't be at all out of place in what looks like will be the majority of the series, barring unwelcome meddling from on high in Toho. As an aside, I do like how Mai and Kaito's little heart to hearts have gone and given them something interesting to do, Mai especially--though taking the edge off of Baron does wonders for his likeability. I can definitely see the two of them becoming a couple, with their relationship adding more substance to their characters. EDIT: I was bound to let an appropriate typo slip in. Runa fucked around with this message at 11:43 on Jan 7, 2014 |
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Jan 7, 2014 09:59
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I genuinely can't/couldn't tell how much of Micchy bringing up keeping the rest of Gaim safe through ignorance was actual concern for his friends and how much of it was him trying to convince Kouta in order to save his own skin. More than anyone he feels like the wildcard that could really change things at a moment's notice.
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Jan 7, 2014 11:18
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Brother Entropy posted:Before this episode my guess was gonna be Yuuya(possibly as a brainwashed experiment kind of deal) but now it feels like a coinflip between those two. Yuuya is gonna be Lemon. The suit design is just antagonistic enough.
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Jan 7, 2014 11:41
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SpazmasterX posted:Yuuya is gonna be Lemon. The suit design is just antagonistic enough. Lemon's identity has already been confirmed in promotional material. It's the scientist guy who made the Drivers.
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Jan 7, 2014 11:49
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Brother Entropy posted:Lemon's identity has already been confirmed in promotional material. It's the scientist guy who made the Drivers. Haha wait, the guy who builds things is getting a fruit that's synonymous with faulty technology? Granted that probably doesn't translate to japan, but still, good choice dude.
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Jan 8, 2014 06:46
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Eponymous posted:Haha wait, the guy who builds things is getting a fruit that's synonymous with faulty technology? Granted that probably doesn't translate to japan, but still, good choice dude. Also I remember Magenta mentioning Yggdrasil building is a giant lemon the other day. Rei_ fucked around with this message at 07:07 on Jan 8, 2014 |
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Jan 8, 2014 07:02
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Think anything will come from Gridon's training with Oren, if it does turn out to be actual training? Could be interesting if Hase gets another driver somehow and comes gunning for revenge: which one of them wanted to get stronger more?
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Jan 8, 2014 07:46
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Justin_Brett posted:Think anything will come from Gridon's training with Oren, if it does turn out to be actual training? Could be interesting if Hase gets another driver somehow and comes gunning for revenge: which one of them wanted to get stronger more? Hase's got more at stake at the moment while it looks like Jounouchi's probably going to be languishing in the comic relief box for a little while longer. Only when he completes a five-layer marjolaine topped with an acorn mont blanc will his training finally be complete.
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Jan 8, 2014 09:26
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I hope Hase and Jounouchi get back together, I want more Kamen Riders Bulk and Skull
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Jan 8, 2014 10:00
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dordreff posted:I hope Hase and Jounouchi get back together, I want more Kamen Riders Bulk and Skull It would be pretty great to watch them go from terrible fighters who only seem to exist for comic relief to a competent fighting duo.
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Jan 8, 2014 13:57
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It's really interesting how like, all of these alliances and tensions and breakups are happening and none of them seem hamfisted or weird. I mean, god, remember Ryuki? Remember Faiz??
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Jan 8, 2014 15:24
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Rei_ posted:It's really interesting how like, all of these alliances and tensions and breakups are happening and none of them seem hamfisted or weird. I mean, god, remember Ryuki? Remember Faiz?? That's just Urobuchi working his magic.
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Jan 8, 2014 15:41
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All I'm hoping is that at one point someone makes the pun "Gaim over" in the show
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Jan 8, 2014 22:18
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Short interview with Urobuchi regarding Gaim.
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Jan 9, 2014 17:52
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Christ, is Urobuchi going to pen the whole thing himself? 19 Episodes is way more than the usual head writers do on any given rider, that's for sure. Also: quote:Y: What is your vision of a hero? 
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Jan 9, 2014 18:28
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Oh hey, cool, my complaints about this not being a Rider story is, AGAIN, apparently Authorial Intent. What the gently caress.
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Jan 9, 2014 18:35
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Burkion posted:Oh hey, cool, my complaints about this not being a Rider story is, AGAIN, apparently Authorial Intent. I think that it's been developing into a Rider show for a while now - see Kouta's declaration at the end of the last episode. But I dunno man, you seem to be pretty judgmental over fruity warlords fighting each other.
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Jan 9, 2014 18:47
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Monathin posted:I think that it's been developing into a Rider show for a while now - see Kouta's declaration at the end of the last episode. But I dunno man, you seem to be pretty judgmental over fruity warlords fighting each other. No, no, last episode was a step in the right direction. He actually used a Rider Kick in his base form for once and cared more about actually saving lives than other nonsense. I also call you out on that last bit. I'm not pretty judgmental-I'm VERY judgmental. Key difference is, I want this show to be a good Rider series. So far it's been an alright, if wildly inconsistent in tone, show with a lot of anime trappings, but it has not really been a Rider show. I hope that changes as it has been.
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Jan 9, 2014 18:57
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Burkion posted:No, no, last episode was a step in the right direction. He actually used a Rider Kick in his base form for once and cared more about actually saving lives than other nonsense. You should actually watch some loving Early Heisei poo poo because this has been a Rider show since the beginning. It just hasn't been one about JUSTICE. This first arc was the typical "Super Hero learns what it means to be a hero/event happens to force them to grow up into being a hero". The only difference between say, gaim and Double or OOO, is that normally that poo poo's just backstory (Dead Boss, Dead 3rd World Girl) Gaim just took the time to sit down and actually show you that emotional journey since it's both super important and gives a chance to really flesh out the whole cast which the writers have taken full advantage from. Kouta and Micchy alone have gotten more character development in 14 episodes than most Riders get their whole show. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Jan 9, 2014 |
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Jan 9, 2014 19:00
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:You should actually watch some loving Early Heisei poo poo because this has been a Rider show since the beginning. It just hasn't been one about JUSTICE. This first arc was the typical "Super Hero learns what it means to be a hero/event happens to force them to grow up into being a hero". The only difference between say, gaim and Double or OOO, is that normally that poo poo's just backstory (Dead Boss, Dead 3rd World Girl) Gaim just took the time to sit down and actually show you that emotional journey since it's both super important and gives a chance to really flesh out the whole cast which the writers have taken full advantage from. Kouta and Micchy alone have gotten more character development in 14 episodes than most Riders get their whole show. I love Kamen Rider Kuuga a lot, it's my second favorite Rider series ever. I am OK with Agito for the most part though was annoyed at how inactive most of the heroes were and how the show took a while to actually find its footing. Ryuki I can't say I'm a fan of mostly due to the ending. Fiaz I have not seen in full but it is often aimless and rife with miscommunication bullshit. Kabuto, Blade and Den-O I have only seen the first episodes of each. Kabuto has an interesting first episode, Den-O just isn't my cup of tea, and Blade was kind of boring. I have not seen Kiva in any fashion. Decade is a horrible piece of garbage that has awful acting, awful writing, and awful characters. Double was fine, though I felt the villains could have been stronger and the 'comedy' could have been reigned in a bit to fit everything else. OOO was a mess of a show but also a lot of fun. I don't regret watching it, but I'm not sure I could have kept watching it if I didn't watch it in real time. I acknowledge the faults that fell just on bad circumstance, and enjoyed what was given-but Maki was still an awful main villain. Fourze was fine, just not much my cup of tea. Wizard is a bland piece of wet cardboard. Have I watched enough Heisei Rider for you now, or should I go watch G right quick? Oh and because they loving count, Toei, ZO is one of my favorite Riders of all time and was the first Kamen Rider I ever saw, and I have not seen J. My issue with Gaim isn't with the character's its bringing in-it's the lack of focus of the first few episodes and the tonal wonkiness of the episodes after. I fully believe, and have said, that the last few have been fine, however. I would have personally preferred to hold off on showing the monsters as threats until after we got Bravo, or just before, so that we could focus purely on the characters and not make the monsters look completely one note as they have been. But again, it's been improving which I have already said.
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Jan 9, 2014 19:32
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Burkion posted:My issue with Gaim isn't with the character's its bringing in-it's the lack of focus of the first few episodes and the tonal wonkiness of the episodes after. I fully believe, and have said, that the last few have been fine, however. I would have personally preferred to hold off on showing the monsters as threats until after we got Bravo, or just before, so that we could focus purely on the characters and not make the monsters look completely one note as they have been. But the first episodes didn't lack a focus? Like, the entire point of those first arcs were setting up the characters and their admittedly Childish desires and goals and contrasting those with what 'the adults' were doing behind the curtain, which the show 100% focused on. The tone hasn't been wonky it's just been two fold. When it's Kids doing lovely Kid things (The Dancing/Invess Battles/Early Rider Confrontations) it's light hearted because the Characters themselves aren't very serious. It's all fun and games even if they treat it seriously. The dark moments of the early episodes are all centered around either Helheim itself or Yggdrasil, both of which represent actual danger and really serious things. That shift in tone feels intended. It's supposed to show that the characters, even Bravo in his own way, are all really immature and not ready for the events ahead (Kinda like how Kouta gets his rear end beaten by Takatora and freaks out or how Micchy will do anything to avoid the actual confrontation between his real life and his brother). The reason the tone is getting overall more serious now is because our Main protagonist himself is growing up, forced to make Adult decisions and deal with real danger and problems. It's why Micchy's actions seem so strange in the last episode because he's actively trying to run away or hide his problems. The tone's not Wonky it's actually really well done. Like, I guess I'm confused about what you think is 'wonky' about it? Because you're honestly like the only person I've seen say anything about the tone like that so I'm genuinely curious as to your problem with it. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Jan 9, 2014 |
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Jan 9, 2014 19:55
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Jan 9, 2014 20:08
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I've gone into this earlier in the thread, I believe. The flaws I found with Gaim, which have been steadily improving AGAIN, were an episode to episode thing. And also, and this is the kicker-entirely personal to me and me alone. The monsters felt like absolute jokes to begin with, only recently have they been a danger-and in one of those events it was wacky shenanigans trying to catch the thing for most of the episode which doesn't gel with trying to present the monster as a threat. I understand they wanted to focus on the characters more than the monsters and that the monsters weren't the point to begin with, but here's why I can't accept that as an excuse. GranSazer. Gransazer did it so well. It was another Toku Show that had a ridiculous cast of characters, 12 in all. They all had complex motivations, for the most part and were often at odds with one another and needed introducing, as well as setting up the world at large and how poo poo worked. So, what GranSazer did that I adored was completely and totally cut out the MOTW format entirely. For the first 9 episodes the action was purely the heroes fighting each other for understandable reasons. Then the first main villain stepped up and got defeated, then we got three new villains, one who got taken down with the introduction of the rest of the Sazers, one that lasted a bit longer, and the last who went all the way to the finale. We didn't start getting MOTW plots until 26 episodes in. Mind you, GranSazer then promptly collapsed under itself after that, but that's neither here nor there. I also understood what they were going for as far as the tone goes, the difference between the serious plot with the Forest and Zangetsu, and the lighter one with low stakes that made up the kids. The issue is that they went too far in the other direction with the kids plot to the point where the juxtaposing was really, really broken. Scenes like Gaim being dragged away because he scared an old lady, or literally hanging in the air on his bike like a loony toons character-or the entirety of Bravo's first episode for that matter- is just too far removed from where it will end up. The tone of the last few episodes has been much better, even calming Bravo down has done a ton. I understand that a lot of Bravo's nonsense, like the word balloons and such, were the fault of the director, not the writer, so I don't hold anything against him on it. But yeah. It's really, really hard to be as light hearted as Den-O and then try to transition to something more serious without coming off as jarring. A lot of it is personal preference and I admit that. I wish Gaim the best of luck in growing up-if that's what it is doing. Also most of the problems with the first episode I covered waaaay back, and amusingly most of the issues I had were addressed by the writer in an interview not too long after as being intetional. Which is what prompted this recent bit of Me and the Writer being on the same page that started this nonsense.
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Jan 9, 2014 20:16
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Have you considered Kamen Rider just might not be your thing? Like I said this during Wizard, and then took my own advice, but like, literally the only thing connecting this entire franchise is sometimes the dude rides a motorcycle. It's okay to not be watching it week to week if literally the vast majority of this franchise since 2001 is 'not your cup of tea'.
Rei_ fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Jan 9, 2014 |
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Jan 9, 2014 20:38
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Rei_ posted:Have you considered Kamen Rider just might not be your thing? Like I said this during Wizard, and then took my own advice, but like, literally the only thing connecting this entire franchise is sometimes the dude rides a motorcycle. It's okay to not be watching it week to week if literally the vast majority of this franchise since 2001 is 'not your cup of tea'. Did you miss the multiple times I mentioned that it was getting better and I was enjoying what it has been doing? I tried to stress that for a reason. I'm not one of those fans that watches something just to bitch at it, unless I have an excuse anyways. (Mostly the excuse is spite) I dropped Fourze after only a few episodes because of that very reason.
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Jan 9, 2014 20:47
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You are a sad strange little man and you have my pity.
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Jan 9, 2014 20:57
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So in other news I really like the sound effect for the Melon Energy Lockseed
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Jan 9, 2014 21:57
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I feel like you haven't paid much attention to how Kamen Rider has done monsters in its last few shows, because how Gaim has treated the Invase has been a breath of fresh air. There's no 'I can't figure out how to defeat this guy's gimmick' or 'he got away when I was kicking his rear end'. They're just monsters acting on instinct, and the newest episode has shown Gaim can put away three of them by himself. But that's not going to help matters much when the forest filled with a horde of them is creeping gradually closer and closer onto the city. Justin_Brett fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Jan 9, 2014 |
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Jan 9, 2014 22:42
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Also the monster not being in focus/treated like the biggest threat is kind of a dumb thing to complain about when the main theme of this show, like the entire point behind it, is an Endless Rider War. Like, well duh they're being treated as more than grunts/foot soldiers because they're not the real threat. Yggdrasil is. Zangetsu is. Baron is. To steal a joke It Turns out Man is the real monster.
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Jan 10, 2014 01:26
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Also the monster not being in focus/treated like the biggest threat is kind of a dumb thing to complain about when the main theme of this show, like the entire point behind it, is an Endless Rider War. Like, well duh they're being treated as more than grunts/foot soldiers because they're not the real threat. Yggdrasil is. Zangetsu is. Baron is. Melon is the real monster
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Jan 10, 2014 02:36
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dordreff posted:Melon is the real monster Soda is the real monster.
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Jan 10, 2014 02:59
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Soda is the real monster. loving tell me about it.
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Jan 10, 2014 03:27
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Also the monster not being in focus/treated like the biggest threat is kind of a dumb thing to complain about when the main theme of this show, like the entire point behind it, is an Endless Rider War. Like, well duh they're being treated as more than grunts/foot soldiers because they're not the real threat. Yggdrasil is. Zangetsu is. Baron is. Endless Rider War? Ryuki had a Rider War. Decade had a Rider War. This hasn't felt like a Rider War so far. Especially not an endless one. The bit in the first episode wasn't even a Rider War. It was just-- Rider Generals with Invess armies. An Invess War. The monster suits need to step up. They're completely uninteresting and there's only been like three suits that aren't grunts, and they're being reused all over the place. Who can believe that kids would be interested in these pokemon battles with such lame pokemans? Especially since most of the time they just seem to fight with the identical looking Worm ones.
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Jan 10, 2014 03:28
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Kids don't buy toys of the monsters. The toys of the RIDERS, however, are selling like loving hotcakes. There's a reason they keep going back to Rider War. I don't give a poo poo about the MOTW designs, make the big bads interesting looking instead.
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Jan 10, 2014 03:35
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Potsticker posted:Endless Rider War? Ryuki had a Rider War. Decade had a Rider War. This hasn't felt like a Rider War so far. Especially not an endless one. The bit in the first episode wasn't even a Rider War. It was just-- Rider Generals with Invess armies. An Invess War. Except every major conflict in the show so far has been Rider on Rider conflict and the show itself has called the coming war endless. poo poo's a rider war, man.
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Jan 10, 2014 03:37
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Rei_ posted:Kids don't buy toys of the monsters. The toys of the RIDERS, however, are selling like loving hotcakes. There's a reason they keep going back to Rider War. I don't give a poo poo about the MOTW designs, make the big bads interesting looking instead. I hope they are selling well, if only that this format is a lot more interesting than the two-episode one-monster arc format and I'd like to see it continue. ZenMasterBullshit posted:Except every major conflict in the show so far has been Rider on Rider conflict and the show itself has called the coming war endless. poo poo's a rider war, man. Maybe if there was more than the small handful of Riders we've gotten so far? Or if they were fighting for some cause other than petty disputes over dance stages? Maybe if they were actual disputes at all. Bravo at least was rightfully annoyed that they were kids just playing around, but he's a joke character suffering a joke character fate. Griton/Ornac and Kurokage as well. It's hardly a war if half the characters are treated like joke fodder.
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Jan 10, 2014 04:01
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