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icantfindaname posted:People don't buy consoles for accessibility or whatever gimmick they've cooked up this month, they buy them for games. This is dumb, because the Wii was their first home console that was even based around a gimmick, and it won last generation. I mean, sure they have release peripherals for all their consoles, but I don't see how they're different than eyetoy or kinect. This thread is starting to get really stupid because you guys are arguing about things that are totally subjective at this point. I absolutely hope Nintendo keeps releasing a fuckton of Mario games because I enjoy them. Zack_Gochuck fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Jan 9, 2014 |
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Jan 9, 2014 21:34
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Quest For Glory II posted:You must not have played Skyward Sword then. Motion controls crippled that game. It's a drat shame too because the dungeons and areas themselves were pretty decent. The motion control minigames were the worst, there's a reason why Fun Fun Island has a pentagram on it. Zack_Gochuck posted:This is dumb, because the Wii was their first home console that was even based around a gimmick, and it won last generation. I mean, sure they have release peripherals for all their consoles, but I don't see how they're different than eyetoy or kinect.
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Jan 9, 2014 21:34
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SatansBestBuddy posted:NES Legend of Zelda is kinda poo poo. Every single aspect of the game was done better in later games. Even LoZ2 stands up to the test of time better by being so wildly different than every other game in the series. Someone hates videogames. Quest For Glory II posted:What are modern views on what is sensible and fun because they must be terrible if Link's Awakening, best game in the Zelda franchise, is excluded. His standards.
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Jan 9, 2014 21:34
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icantfindaname posted:I'm inclined to say no they didn't really understand it then, seeing as they treated devs like poo poo and had no answer to the genesis and if sony hadn't hosed up the saturn out of sheer incompetence they probably would've beaten nintendo instead of sony. They fundamentally don't understand that developers sell consoles not console makers, and that they're 10x more important than "low barriers to entry" or whatever the gently caress. Clearly barriers to entry were no problem for the PSX, PS2 and XB360. We're in agreement concerning their relationship with third parties. How was the Super Nintendo not an answer to the Genesis? People absolutely buy consoles for their accessibility; the audience for the Wii moved on because of the accessibility of other platforms. Still not sure how Nintendo being a "toy company" is a damaging philosophy to have.
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Jan 9, 2014 21:35
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Pankratos posted:
Nintendo has been a shitload of other things prior to doing videogames. Videogames was just the first thing that really stuck.
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Jan 9, 2014 21:37
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KittyEmpress posted:I like Fire Emblem because I like strategy games, and SMT because I like mythology and demons and stuff. My first SMT game was Nocturne. I'd be honestly curious to hear what you're calling superior in this case. A lot of modern Indie games have nicer interfaces or graphics but are honestly worse than the games they are aping in general game design. I'd be honestly hard pressed to think of a modern Indie Zelda Clone that I would say takes the LttP-style gameplay and design and seriously improves upon it. Likewise I think most of the modern Metroid clones like Shadow Complex, while fun, do not actually match the design quality I associate with Super Metroid. There are some wonderful and amazing Indie titles out there but they are not ones I'd associate with "Zelda Clone" or "Metroid Clone" but games that do their own things or have a masterful grasp of general game design.
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Jan 9, 2014 21:38
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The Taint Reaper posted:
But I mean, the point still stands. They sold more home consoles than they ever have before based entirely on a gimmick, and it was the first time they had released a console based around a gimmick. Why wouldn't they try it again? If I wore a funny hat out to the bar and I slept with the hottest girl there, I'd probably wear a funny hat again next week. Zack_Gochuck fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Jan 9, 2014 |
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Jan 9, 2014 21:38
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Nobody enjoys the Wii U failing due to stubborn head butting and backwards policies more than me, but "old games I didn't grow up with are all bad" is a dumb discussion. This forum has a Retro Games thread that has 28,000 posts and that's just this edition of it. Go in there and tell them they like lovely games and see how long you last. There's a kid growing up with a PS4 controller in his hand who in 10 years is going to say "Shadow of the Colossus? Sounds like some old trash. Knack all the way baby." The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Jan 9, 2014 |
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Jan 9, 2014 21:38
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The Taint Reaper posted:It really didn't win, it just sorta became a fad and then burned out really quick. Because most of the best selling games like Grand Theft Auto were on other systems. If you just had a wii you missed out on a load of games. In a world where Wii Sports doesn't exist...
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Jan 9, 2014 21:38
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:In a world where Wii Sports doesn't exist... Wii sports came with the system, it was a freebee. Wii sports also wasn't fun unless you had other people around. I mean you couldn't dick off by yourself and spend a few dozen hours playing like Persona, Pokémon, Halo, Elder Scrolls, and Saints Row.
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Jan 9, 2014 21:40
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The Taint Reaper posted:Nintendo has been a shitload of other things prior to doing videogames. Videogames was just the first thing that really stuck. I know about their history pre-video games, but I'm not sure how Nintendo identifying themselves as toymakers informs their current predicament.
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Jan 9, 2014 21:40
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WiiFitForWindows8 posted:Link's awakening is loving awesome for a handheld game, dude. Don't even start that poo poo. Link's awakening is loving awesome. Period. edit: KittyEmpress posted:Generally what makes me dislike old LoZ games is the lack of direction and how you're supposed to wander around and hope you get to the right point eventually. It's tedious and annoying, and I don't know a single person IRL who hasn't admitted to using Nintendo Power to figure out how to beat them when they first played. Link's awakening was pretty handholdy for its time. Every time you complete a dungeon, you will get a hint on where to go next, and there is that phone booth you can visit to get a hint on what to do next. So yeah, it's a bad example Wheany fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Jan 9, 2014 |
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Jan 9, 2014 21:41
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Quest For Glory II posted:Nobody enjoys the Wii U failing due to stubborn head butting and backwards policies more than me, but "old games I didn't grow up with are all bad" is a dumb discussion. This forum has a Retro Games thread that has 28,000 posts and that's just this edition of it. Go in there and tell them they like lovely games and see how long you last. Hi I'm a retro game collector. Most of them are poo poo. A lot of them I thought were amazing as a kid are just kinda ok now. 
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Jan 9, 2014 21:44
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Pankratos posted:We're in agreement concerning their relationship with third parties. Devs jumped ship to the Genesis because of better treatment and better licensing terms, the only thing the SNES had on it was technological power. If you don't understand why the WiiU was a fluke and not repeatable, then holy poo poo close the thread because we've hit peak nintendo warrior. It's damaging because the forced inclusion of gimmicks makes it a pain in the rear end for devs, and it seems to have indirect effects on their relations with them. edit: Zack_Gochuck posted:If I wore a funny hat out to the bar and I slept with the hottest girl there, I'd probably wear a funny hat again next week. this is literally what people itt think. sit on that for a bit. icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Jan 9, 2014 |
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Jan 9, 2014 21:44
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The Taint Reaper posted:Wii sports came with the system, it was a freebee. Wii had seven games that sold 20 million copies or more. There are seven games in the Top 20 best selling games of all time that are from the Wii. You have to combine 360 and PS3 sales of GTAIV to get close to 30 million and that still isn't as much as Wii Sports Resort. Wii Fit and Wii Fit Plus both sold over 20 million copies, which made it more successful than any PS3 or 360 exclusive. "In a world where Nintendo first party titles can't sell 20 million copies on one platform..." Paper Jam Dipper fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Jan 9, 2014 |
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Jan 9, 2014 21:45
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Install Windows posted:Hi I'm a retro game collector. Most of them are poo poo. A lot of them I thought were amazing as a kid are just kinda ok now. I think it's as stupid as rejecting old movies and most literature.
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Jan 9, 2014 21:46
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Quest For Glory II posted:There's a kid growing up with a PS4 controller in his hand who in 10 years is going to say "Shadow of the Colossus? Sounds like some old trash. Knack all the way baby." Yeah, but Sony isn't going to be trying to sell people on a console because it has Shadow of the Colossus 47, like they do with Mario and Zelda. Mario and Zelda are okay games to me. They're nothing special. A few make me go 'wow I wanna play this again' (Sunshine and Galaxy 2). Most of them make me go 'eh, I guess it was worth 20 bucks'. To you they are amazing games. That is okay  . People have different tastes. But Nintendo needs to target a larger market than the 'nintendo fanboy' market, and so far have tried to do so by trying to appeal to the children/old people/casual Wii demographic, and failed massively.
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Jan 9, 2014 21:48
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:Wii had seven games that sold 20 million copies or more. There are seven games in the Top 20 best selling games of all time that are from the Wii. You have to combine 360 and PS3 sales of GTAV to get close to 30 million and that still isn't as much as Wii Sports Resort. Wii Fit and Wii Fit Plus both sold over 20 million copies, which made it more successful than any PS3 or 360 exclusive. Yes but then why did their sequels not sell gangbusters?
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Jan 9, 2014 21:48
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The Taint Reaper posted:It really didn't win, it just sorta became a fad and then burned out really quick. Because most of the best selling games like Grand Theft Auto were on other systems. If you just had a wii you missed out on a load of games. If you had just a PS3 you missed out on a lot of games too, you can say that about any console.
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Jan 9, 2014 21:48
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icantfindaname posted:If you don't understand why the WiiU was a fluke and not repeatable, then holy poo poo close the thread because we've hit peak nintendo warrior. Please explain why the Wii's success is not repeatable. I am not being sarcastic, I am genuinely asking you.
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Jan 9, 2014 21:49
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KittyEmpress posted:Yeah, but Sony isn't going to be trying to sell people on a console because it has Shadow of the Colossus 47, like they do with Mario and Zelda.
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Jan 9, 2014 21:50
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Zack_Gochuck posted:Please explain why the Wii's success is not repeatable. I am not being sarcastic, I am genuinely asking you. Because the same people moved onto iPads and other easily used devices.
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Jan 9, 2014 21:50
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Quest For Glory II posted:I dunno, you say that but we're on the 5th Uncharted and the 9th Ratchet and Clank? If they do a next-gen R&C trilogy we'll be up to 12 on that series. Yeah but the pull for Playstations aren't just exclusives like it is for the Wii U. The Playstation 4 has third party support and is generally pretty accepted as being a good console to develop for. The Wii U HAS to rely on selling people on Mario and Zelda, because Nintendo is the only one developing for Nintendo. Edit: Note, I think that having a ton of Ratchet and Clanks and Uncharted is also bad, but am generally persuaded to ignore the sequalitis in such things because I still have options about other things to play potentially, unlike with a certain console.
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Jan 9, 2014 21:51
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Zack_Gochuck posted:Please explain why the Wii's success is not repeatable. I am not being sarcastic, I am genuinely asking you. The value proposition that the Wii fulfilled has been edged out of usefullness from the bottom with tablets and smart phones as well as from the top where the technology behind it is no longer new and entertaining in its newness. Additionally the WiiU costs too much money to reach Wii purchasers who did develop a sense of brand loyalty that wasn't lost to those other two factors.
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Jan 9, 2014 21:52
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KittyEmpress posted:To you they are amazing games. That is okay I wouldn't say they are failing massively simply because they make games that you don't like.
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Jan 9, 2014 21:52
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Zack_Gochuck posted:Please explain why the Wii's success is not repeatable. I am not being sarcastic, I am genuinely asking you. Short answer: Tablets. There's so many other forms of entertainment available now commpared to when the Wii launched. Casual games are also much more accessible and often free, both facebook "games" and $1 dollar tablet games are a much easier sell to most people. You simply won't get the casual hype behind a console again.
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Jan 9, 2014 21:53
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The Taint Reaper posted:Yes but then why did their sequels not sell gangbusters? It's the console selling poorly, not the games themselves. Almost three million copies of New Super Mario Bros. U has been sold. That ain't the game's fault. If 30 million Wii U's were on the market I'm sure that number would be higher. Also point stands. The best selling games of the generation were on the best selling console.
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Jan 9, 2014 21:54
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:It's the console selling poorly, not the games themselves. Almost three million copies of New Super Mario Bros. U has been sold. That ain't the game's fault. If 30 million Wii U's were on the market I'm sure that number would be higher. The games are supposed to draw the people to buying the consoles, not the other way around.
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Jan 9, 2014 21:55
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KittyEmpress posted:The Wii U HAS to rely on selling people on Mario and Zelda, because Nintendo is the only one developing for Nintendo. And ultimately what console you pick does come down to the exclusives, IN ADDITION TO the expectation of all the third party software. Which the Wii U lacks. But in terms of.. do you want to choose Halo 15, Uncharted 15, or Mario 15, then we're on relatively equal footing there. Like it or not that's our future. (buy a pc)
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Jan 9, 2014 21:56
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:Wii had seven games that sold 20 million copies or more. There are seven games in the Top 20 best selling games of all time that are from the Wii. You have to combine 360 and PS3 sales of GTAV to get close to 30 million and that still isn't as much as Wii Sports Resort. Wii Fit and Wii Fit Plus both sold over 20 million copies, which made it more successful than any PS3 or 360 exclusive. Pretty cute how you're comparing total sales of Wii games over as many as 5 or 6 years, none of them less than 2 years, to the under 4 months of sales of GTA V.
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Jan 9, 2014 21:59
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:Wii had seven games that sold 20 million copies or more. There are seven games in the Top 20 best selling games of all time that are from the Wii. You have to combine 360 and PS3 sales of GTAV to get close to 30 million and that still isn't as much as Wii Sports Resort. Wii Fit and Wii Fit Plus both sold over 20 million copies, which made it more successful than any PS3 or 360 exclusive. "In a world where every Nintendo Platform ever sold 20 million copies of every first party title..." Zack_Gochuck posted:Please explain why the Wii's success is not repeatable. I am not being sarcastic, I am genuinely asking you. See: The Wii U. The Wii U is nowhere near primed to do what the Wii did. Its particular gimmick has not resonated with audiences in the same way that the WiiMote did. Even among the faithful, the urge to "upgrade" to a Wii U has been minimal. It was outsold by another failing platform last year, is trending to be Nintendo's next GameCube AT BEST, and has already seen the evaporation of much of its third-party support. Nintendo itself is struggling to release games for the system at a decent pace, and struggling to justify its gimmick. Worse still, the recent console launches prove that the competition still maintains a healthy amount of appeal to the rest of the market, despite not having a years worth of games under their belt. You have folks in here laughing about how there's going to be a drought on the PS4 and the Xbox One, and they are absolutely right to do so as this is a thing that always happens with consoles post-launch. However, unlike Nintendo, those systems DO have third-parties who are going to be there to fill in the gaps between major first/second party releases. They have other sources of games that are AAA and games that are budget/bargain bin material.
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Jan 9, 2014 22:00
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The Taint Reaper posted:The games are supposed to draw the people to buying the consoles, not the other way around. It doesn't matter how good a game is though if the system has this aura of failure around it.
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Jan 9, 2014 22:00
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Install Windows posted:Pretty cute how you're comparing total sales of Wii games over as many as 5 or 6 years, none of them less than 2 years, to the under 4 months of sales of GTA V. I should have stuck with GTAIV. Point works better with that. I went with the GTA that sold better and was only on two systems. Thanks!
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Jan 9, 2014 22:02
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Astro7x posted:It doesn't matter how good a game is though if the system has this aura of failure around it. The aura of failure is from the games(or lack of games). What you think there's some Nintendo bias that just exists just because?
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Jan 9, 2014 22:02
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Astro7x posted:It doesn't matter how good a game is though if the system has this aura of failure around it. Or maybe the games don't have enough appeal to justify to consumers that it's worth buying a Nintendo platform.
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Jan 9, 2014 22:04
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The Taint Reaper posted:The aura of failure is from the games(or lack of games). Are you reading the same thread as me?
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Jan 9, 2014 22:05
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ImpAtom posted:To me, the reason to buy a console is not cheapness but a basic level of assured functionality. Many of the modern PC games I've played have had their threads utterly and completely dominated by people having some technical problem or another, many of which render the game unplayable or just a mess. I play a lot of PC games and I've generally been fairly lucky with this but a lot of people haven't. I prefer PC gaming but I tend to default to consoles for new games simply because if I want to play a game, I don't want to budget a chunk of time for it only to be stuck waiting for a patch or fix. So to me a PC is great for picking up old games via Steam Sale but it is not a viable primary system. I find this trend is no longer exclusive to PC games anymore
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Jan 9, 2014 22:07
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Astro7x posted:Are you reading the same thread as me? People don't hate Nintendo because LOL KIDDIE NINTENDO, people just hate that they keep doing the same stupid poo poo(i.e. lack of games) over and over for their consoles and it's been just getting worse.
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Jan 9, 2014 22:09
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Quest For Glory II posted:And ultimately what console you pick does come down to the exclusives, IN ADDITION TO the expectation of all the third party software. Which the Wii U lacks. But in terms of.. do you want to choose Halo 15, Uncharted 15, or Mario 15, then we're on relatively equal footing there. Like it or not that's our future. (buy a pc) Re: Buying a PC instead of a console. The entire reason I haven't purchased an PS4 or XBone (especially an XBone, as I'm sure a lot of their exclusives will be released on PC as well), is because there has yet to be a game announced for either that I don't think will be ported to PC, or that I want so bad that I must have the system in order to play it. I do not think I am alone in this, and this is probably an underrepresented part of the picture. I did, however, purchase a Wii U, because I know that most if not all, of the games for it will not be ported to the system I own and use everyday. There is no reason to purchase the PS4/XBone if you have a PC with a Capture Card, or just a decent PC with a TV and controller. I may be a fringe case, however, because I haven't really heard anything announced on the next gen Consumer Entertainment Devices© that I'm particularly interested in. I'm sure for fans of Shooters or Racers, this is an entirely different situation, and perhaps the large share of the market that are fans of these games and how Nintendo has mostly ignored them is the reason is has fallen behind. But if that is the reason, I think its probably OK and will recover. tl;dr: First Party Titles may lead to Nintendo's success as PS4/XBone games, especially AAA and non-exclusives, will probably be on PC. I could be wrong, I'm honestly just spitballing.
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Jan 9, 2014 22:09
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:I should have stuck with GTAIV. Point works better with that. I went with the GTA that sold better and was only on two systems. Thanks! That still doesn't make any sense, GTA IV sold 25 million retail copies, and an unknown amount more on Steam (suggested to be around 4 million in total) and other download services. GTA:SA sold at least 28 million at retail with a lot fewer download copies, GTA V sold 29 million copies after 6 weeks of release, which was 2 months ago. GTA V earned $800 million in a single day. Nintendo recently has earned $800 million to $840 million in an average quarter. You simply have no idea what you're talking about.
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Jan 9, 2014 22:13
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