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mmj posted:That's actually kind of nice to hear. My local meta is pretty competitive but if crones can do damage in the air thank gently caress for that. Are we really blocked out of BRB powers, fortifications and allies/FOC manipulation shenanigans? Because that's still a ver very serious dealbreaker for me at this point. And is the synapse/IB situation as bleak as the leaks made it look? All BRB powers are gone. Allies/FOC manipulation and such is right out. Not sure about fortifications. I didn't see anything about them. You're gonna need synapse for sure. If you have anything with feed, keep it in synapse. Hormagaunts are especially hurt by this due to their squad sizes. The fliers have high enough leadership it likely wont be too much of an issue.
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Jan 10, 2014 07:19
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You know, on the bright side the new models are all pretty good looking. The only dodgy thing are the boneswords on the warriors.
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Jan 10, 2014 07:34
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twistedmentat posted:You know, on the bright side the new models are all pretty good looking. The only dodgy thing are the boneswords on the warriors. Those tyrant guard are really badass. They actually look amazing. If I can find someone to buy my old finecast/metal ones to cover some of the cost I totally would pay for that one kit for legitimate modeling purposes mainly.
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Jan 10, 2014 07:45
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BULBASAUR posted:Did I miss anything? Everything you mentioned, plus now Sicaran battle tanks (which are really versatile) and Castellax squads. The Castellax are crazy, if you're willing to learn their horribly convoluted rules and rules-within-rules. After that it really depends on your legion. Some of the units (Word Bearer Possessed, Death Guard chem terminator thingies) are great/good choices.
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Jan 10, 2014 09:59
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Master Twig posted:Not sure about fortifications. I didn't see anything about them. Fortifications/emplacements were only restricted by a FAQ for the old codex. If the new one doesn't prevent their use they will have to issue a new FAQ with it in or we can start tooling up with Venomthropes or BS4 Zoanthropes on quad guns. Of course I'm sure a new FAQ adding arbitrary restrictions on Nids is currently one of the highest priority jobs at GW HQ. Edit: I just noticed Venomthropes lost BS4 :(((
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Jan 10, 2014 10:03
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xtothez posted:Of course I'm sure a new FAQ adding arbitrary restrictions on Nids is currently one of the highest priority jobs at GW HQ. I will laugh if Tyranids get a day 0 FAQ preventing them from using emplacements while the Burning Chariot continues to fester away due to GW's 
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Jan 10, 2014 10:34
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Two Feet From Bread posted:What do you guys think the Day 1 Tyranid Errata/FAQ will look like? We forgot to include the 'Kryptonite' USR. All Tyranids with this rule (which is all Tyranids) are uniquely vulnerable to Las weapon fire due to a quirk in their biology. All las weapons strengths are doubled. Las guns are tripled. Las pistols have the 'Destroyer' quality.
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Jan 10, 2014 10:45
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I've given up on Daemons ever getting an FAQ update. I still don't understand how all the CSM Daemon Engines got IWND but the Soul Grinder didn't.
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Jan 10, 2014 10:51
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All Tyranid Monstrous creatures suffer from the 'Ennui' USR. Roll under your leadership every turn or the MC suffers a severe existential crisis and commits suicide. Synapse creatures roll 3d6 for this check.
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Jan 10, 2014 12:33
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Fuegan posted:I've given up on Daemons ever getting an FAQ update. I still don't understand how all the CSM Daemon Engines got IWND but the Soul Grinder didn't. The Soulgrinder instead got AV13, extra attacks, better guns, and a 50pt price drop. What are you complaining about?
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Jan 10, 2014 12:45
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Thematic continuity? But there is a difference: some are built by the Dark Mechanicum, while the Soul Grinder comes from daemon forges.
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Jan 10, 2014 12:54
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I read the Tyranid codex in GW the other day and I thought it looked cool, genestealers with a Broodlord could be handy, lots of stuff to be happy about
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Jan 10, 2014 13:04
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C-C-C-oval office posted:I read the Tyranid codex in GW the other day and I thought it looked cool, genestealers with a Broodlord could be handy, lots of stuff to be happy about Yeah but every unit in the game isnt a riptide or wraithknight so the codex is poo poo mate.
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Jan 10, 2014 13:29
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It would be a terrible list, but 6 Genestealer units all with Broodlords to spam The Horror would be fairly amusing. If half the armies in the game weren't Fearless of some type, it might even be good! serious gaylord posted:Yeah but every unit in the game isnt a riptide or wraithknight so the codex is poo poo mate. Yup, those two units are the only good things about those codexes, you're right! Now I see the light and how great the Tyranid book really is! 
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Jan 10, 2014 13:53
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BULBASAUR posted:What are the cheesy competitive 30k lists? First, I’d like to avoid them. Second, if I play at a game store and some dude decides to play some silly poo poo I’d like an answer to his silly poo poo. The beautiful thing about 30k is that everything can be a cheesy list, because you can deal with it with your own cheese for the most part - if you are playing against someone who has a truly awful list, punch them in the face and find a new person to play with. But yes, those are some of the more egregious issues. The Moritat is perhaps the worst, although I believe they errata'd that he cannot be subject to prescience. And don't forget he can't shoot the following turn, i think. Predator squadrons are bad, but you know what takes care of them? 10 ML devastators blowing through them all in one turn. Or a drop pod of 10 meltaguns. Also bad - multiple Spartans with Flare Shields, Horus with any number of terminators to deliver him into combat. WhiskeyJuvenile posted:I'm pretty excited for Horus. Sons of Horus is definitely my favorite 30k color scheme. Yeah, Sons of Horus are pretty awesome!    SRM posted:I just played a rad as gently caress game with Zhent, easily one of the most tactical and thought-out games I've ever played. His Ravenwing were chasing down my Lord as he hopped from squad to squad and made armor saves like a boss while a big ol' mob of Marines held the Relic back in my deployment zone. I also blew the arm off my own Dreadnought with a Vindicator. Thanks for the game, man! Yeah that was awesome. Other notable moments: my Ravenwing command squad getting bloodthirsty and chasing a lone Havoc sergeant, only to be cut down by the rest of SRM's Warrior squad; my PFG-toting Librarian hit-and-running away from a squad of berserkers 2 or 3 times in a row while chasing down this terrible Terminator Lord. Unfortunately the phonepics came out terrible, I think because of the bar-like atmospher lighting we have going on there, but next time we play I'll bring my actual camera and we'll do it properly!    
Zhent fucked around with this message at 14:07 on Jan 10, 2014 |
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Jan 10, 2014 13:58
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serious gaylord posted:Yeah but every unit in the game isnt a riptide or wraithknight so the codex is poo poo mate. Broken Loose has been a bit ridiculous, but most of the thread has had very reasonable beefs with the new Tyranid codex. It's not that it's competitively underpowered (what you are implying), since Flyrants, Carnifexes, Tyrannofexes, and Gribblies all got buffs and/or point reductions, and the new models may end up being usable. It's that most of the changes are a combination of uninspired (edition catchup), completely baffling (Genestealers/Pyrovores/Rippers being untouched or getting a points hike, BRB psychic powers being removed, random biomorph nerfs), and disappointing (no options to make up for lack of access to fortifications/allies, removal of popular units like the Doom/Mycetic Spore since they can't be bothered to make a model/upgrade kit). Basically they didn't fix any of the most glaring problems with the last codex, while not introducing anything awesome and exciting into this codex like Battle Focus or Chapter Tactics. It really just feels lazy when they've had 4 years to develop something new and exciting.
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Jan 10, 2014 14:07
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Pretty cogent post. Competitively, how does the Tyranid codex look if the rumours of 40k. Ed 6.5 turn out to be true (assault from reserve/outflank/non-moving transport)?
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Jan 10, 2014 14:28
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I agree with the sentiment - the new book feels a lot like the last one in terms of style and rules. It will hardly keep me from playing with the new rules or painting my models but after being very satisfied with the changes to the Eldar and Space Marine books the Tyranid one is pretty boring unfortunately. That being said, I'll post pictures of the Carnifex Brood once I'm done with them.  Boon posted:Competitively, how does the Tyranid codex look if the rumours of 40k. Ed 6.5 turn out to be true (assault from reserve/outflank/non-moving transport)? I have no idea how valid those rumours are (those are basically every wishlist me and my group has had about the assault phase during the entirety of 6th edition compiled together) but at least Genestealers would maybe see more use. I know it would make me field Banshees and Scorpions a lot more!
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Jan 10, 2014 14:33
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Zhent posted:The beautiful thing about 30k is that everything can be a cheesy list, because you can deal with it with your own cheese for the most part - if you are playing against someone who has a truly awful list, punch them in the face and find a new person to play with. Volkite devs are also pretty drat scary for the cost. Especially if the Sarge carries an Augur (or whichever item it is that lets you take potshots at Deep Strikers).
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Jan 10, 2014 14:39
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I'm of the opinion that there's no chance at all of the 6.5 rumours being true. With GW's time windows for producing things, 6.5 would have had to be started before they even released 6 and saw what its problem were.
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Jan 10, 2014 14:39
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While we're speaking of Kroot, have my work in progress Comms relay Krootox, that i was about to call a commsox until i said it out loud    it's in keeping with the theme of my kroot mercenaries having raided an IG depot (possibly while helping defend said depot) possible additions to it is a searchlight, so the kroot can spot fliers in the dark :v
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Jan 10, 2014 14:51
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Lungboy posted:I'm of the opinion that there's no chance at all of the 6.5 rumours being true. With GW's time windows for producing things, 6.5 would have had to be started before they even released 6 and saw what its problem were. Agreed. That said, if charging from outflank came back you'd see Hive Commandered Hormagaunts or Tervigons and/or stealers come back into vogue a bit more. Only dealing with overwatch, rather than 1-2 rounds of fire plus overwatch, would do wonders for them. Plus IG/Tau/Eĺdar gunlines would be forced into the center a bit, especially for Hammer and Anvil.
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Jan 10, 2014 15:02
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Guys, you might think I'm crazy but... ...what if the rumoured Tyranid Vanguard supplement gives us back DoM and spores?
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Jan 10, 2014 15:09
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So this is my bad Tzeentch list. Help me. This is built from what I have currently so I'd like to get the better HQ options soon. HQ The Blue Scribes - 81 points Herald of Tzeentch A + Disc + ML3 + Conjuration Locus - 145 points Herald of Tzeentch B + ML3 + Conjuration Locus - 120 points 346 points Elites Flamers of Tzeentch + 6 Flamers - 207 points Flamers of Tzeentch - 69 points 276 points Troops Pink Horrors of Tzeentch + 10 Pink Horrors - 180 points Pink Horrors of Tzeentch + 10 Pink Horrors - 180 points Pink Horrors of Tzeentch - 90 points 450 points Fast Attack Screamers of Tzeentch + 3 Screamers - 150 points I don't really know the point of taking a Burning Chariot, either for a HoT or the obviously poo poo Exalted Flamer thing, so my HS options are empty. I have no idea how to build a Daemons list yet.
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Jan 10, 2014 15:14
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HiveCommander posted:Guys, you might think I'm crazy but... Apparently it's a Lictors + Genestealer formation that gets to deploy using the Lictors deep strike rule (no scatter). Speaking of... the Dakka collective has stumbled onto an interesting trick. Lictors and Genestealers can infiltrate outside Synapse range at the start of the game, and Go to Ground if they come under fire. In area terrain this gives the Lictor a 2+ cover save and the 'stealers 3+. You then move a Synapse unit into range and infiltrators become Fearless and immediately stand up, ready to be used. According to the main rulebook FAQ, it's a legit move: quote:Q: If a unit has the Fearless special rule applied to them while they
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Jan 10, 2014 15:15
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I guess you've found the real answer as to what will be in that first FAQ then.
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Jan 10, 2014 15:16
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xtothez posted:deletia I think somebody here came up with that a few days ago. I remember reading it and I don't read any 40k forums besides these.
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Jan 10, 2014 15:16
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Master Twig posted:
Harpies are actually really good assault support units. When the 5th ed codex dropped, I charged them into a unit, followed by a brood of Carnifexes. Halving initiative usually meant that Carnifexes were at least hitting at the same time as almost anything Marine armies could field (except GKs, but I'm the only GK player in my area). Now that it's a flat -5 to initiative, and all our I1 MCs have been bumped up to I2 ('Fexes included), a one-two combo with Harpy/Fex brood will leave them striking before most units that aren't the Keeper of Secrets or Howling Banshees. (Except GKs because halberds) EDIT: My LGS opens up in under 11 hours from now. I'll be sure to scour the codex as fast as I can and let you all know what I find. It probably won't matter much as half the 'dex has been scanned already and at most you guys will be getting the book ~15 hours after I do, but I may as well. HiveCommander fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Jan 10, 2014 |
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Jan 10, 2014 15:24
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Zhent posted:I guess you've found the real answer as to what will be in that first FAQ then. It won't be FAQ'd, this trick has worked for the entirety of 6th with similar abilities (Mental Fortitude from the Telepathy table, etc.). It's just notable for Nids since they normally cannot Go to Ground in synapse.
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Jan 10, 2014 15:25
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Soulfucker posted:I agree with the sentiment - the new book feels a lot like the last one in terms of style and rules. It will hardly keep me from playing with the new rules or painting my models but after being very satisfied with the changes to the Eldar and Space Marine books the Tyranid one is pretty boring unfortunately. Yeah, for me it means that Shining Spears with Bike Autarch go from fun unit to use to auto-include. Striking Scorpions become interesting as well.
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Jan 10, 2014 15:50
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Boon posted:Yeah, for me it means that Shining Spears with Bike Autarch go from fun unit to use to auto-include. Striking Scorpions become interesting as well. Striking Scorpions are quite good now; only a lack of assault vehicles keeps them from being auto-include. Well, that and the fact that shooting tops melee 98 out of 100 times now. They are quite durable, fastg on the board, can get good cover saves easily on terrain to deal with plasma and other low-AP fire, and now have Fleet. Even better, their version of the Powerfist lets them hit at I5, meaning they own at challenges against infantry. They can even get a handy +1 S to reach S8 and ID careless enemy HQs.
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Jan 10, 2014 16:05
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Sephyr posted:They can even get a handy +1 S to reach S8 and ID careless enemy HQs. Actually, bonuses like that are applied after the doubling of a powerfist/claw/whatever. So the exarch would only be strength 7.
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Jan 10, 2014 16:19
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All I want is for them to allow assault from reserve/outflank/transport, but with a penalty so it's not as ruthless as in 5th. Something like 2D3" charge range, no bonus attacks for charging or overwatch fire becomes twin-linked would be fine. It would unlock so many more options for everyone and generally shake things up for the better.
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Jan 10, 2014 16:20
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Sephyr posted:Striking Scorpions are quite good now; only a lack of assault vehicles keeps them from being auto-include. Well, that and the fact that shooting tops melee 98 out of 100 times now. Striking Scorpions aren't a bad unit, but from a competitive standpoint they don't do anything better than anything else in the Eldar codex for similar points cost. If you want to shred infantry at close range, you want Guardians. If you want the S7 AP2 from the Exarch, take Wraithguard. T3 means that they simply can't open themselves up to enemy fire at all, bolter/lasgun equivalents will tear them apart, and the limitations on assaults means your opponent gets the first shot at your Scorpions before they can really do anything. This is another problem with the design of cover saves - having cover from enemy fire often literally doesn't help at all unless you are able to completely obscure LOS, which sucks from both a mechanical AND a fluff standpoint. Cover would actually be great if they changed it to be something like a negative modifier to the opponent's to hit roll, but then we're getting into "complete rules system overhaul territory", something I would not be opposed to, but that they will never do with their current release schedule - they are hamstrung by the fact that they have to maintain backwards compatibility with out-of-date codices. quote:You mean like back in the 90's? Sure! If that's how cover used to work I'm really not sure why they changed it. It would make terrain a lot more useful for non-vehicles and wouldn't make the shooting phase any more complicated - you already have to know what your armor and cover saves are. Granted, with their single D6-based "Ballistic Skill" setup, you don't have much wiggle room in terms of how you modify that roll - low BS shooters could quickly be unable to hit targets in good cover. But, maybe that's not a bad thing! Another aspect of game design where Warmahordes does a much better job - both the attacker's ranged attack skill and the defender's ability to not get hit (which incorporates cover/concealment) matter. Lord Of Texas fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Jan 10, 2014 |
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Jan 10, 2014 16:29
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xtothez posted:All I want is for them to allow assault from reserve/outflank/transport, but with a penalty so it's not as ruthless as in 5th. Something like 2D3" charge range, no bonus attacks for charging or overwatch fire becomes twin-linked would be fine. Lord Of Texas posted:
You mean like back in the 90's? 
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Jan 10, 2014 16:30
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Soulfucker posted:Maybe just the Disordered Charge penalty would be enough? It's not like shooting units get a penalty for showing up from reserves and blasting the gently caress out of something as it is. This is why I dislike the Deep Strike rules as well. Apparently you're too uncoordinated to sort out charging as soon as you've landed/burrowed up/whatever but you can shoot things with pinpoint accuracy. If you're going to stop assaults from happening, at least make people fire snap shots after they've landed.
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Jan 10, 2014 16:38
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^^^Could you imagine the demon lists if you could assault out of deepstrike  SUPER NEAT TOY posted:So this is my bad Tzeentch list. Help me. This is built from what I have currently so I'd like to get the better HQ options soon. You gave one of the heralds a disc and the Loci of +1 Str to psychic powers. The flamers technically don't cast powers so it does not help them. If this herald is going with them then skip that upgrade. Without any MC or 'Grinders you lack a unit that can really hit hard. Flame templates and S6 shooting are great to have but your next move should be to get a hammer you can smash into the enemy. Also, don't forget that the blue scribes can't join a unit. They are not independent characters, just characters. The chariot is a bad idea for a Herald to ride on since it gives him no benefit being exposed and fragile when he can easily take a disc and hang out where he belongs(and we all know the other version is just broken, sadly). The 'way' people make demon lists these days is taking strong (but expensive) FMC or fast assault units. So Khorne hounds, Seekers or Screamers can be the focus of a list with support units of your liking. Or, you can go FMC heavy for the 'Flying Circus' getting around 4 FMC with marginal troops only to deepstrike and score. Then there are hybrid lists between. Most people also like Fateweaver since he is a great support MC and provides decent shooting and they also like Grimoire of True Names since it can force-multiply units that are balanced as fragile then made 3++, Tzeentch especially since the re-roll ones is great with the save getting better (Fateweaver is 2++ with it on).
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Jan 10, 2014 16:43
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will blow your mind.
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Lord Of Texas posted:This is another problem with the design of cover saves - having cover from enemy fire often literally doesn't help at all unless you are able to completely obscure LOS, which sucks from both a mechanical AND a fluff standpoint. Cover would actually be great if they changed it to be something like a negative modifier to the opponent's to hit roll, but then we're getting into "complete rules system overhaul territory", something I would not be opposed to, but that they will never do with their current release schedule - they are hamstrung by the fact that they have to maintain backwards compatibility with out-of-date codices. 1. I don't know if that would hurt the mobility and dynamic nature of the game, which is something I really like 2. The D6 system is only so granular, and I don't think Orks would ever hit anything that's in cover. Zhent posted:Yeah that was awesome. Other notable moments: my Ravenwing command squad getting bloodthirsty and chasing a lone Havoc sergeant, only to be cut down by the rest of SRM's Warrior squad; my PFG-toting Librarian hit-and-running away from a squad of berserkers 2 or 3 times in a row while chasing down this terrible Terminator Lord. SRM fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Jan 10, 2014 |
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Jan 10, 2014 16:55
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I'm imagining a terrible goon project aiming to re-imagine the rules of Warhammer 40k. "Imagine four Space Marines on the edge of an Aegis Defence Line..."
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Jan 10, 2014 16:56
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Fuegan posted:This is why I dislike the Deep Strike rules as well. Apparently you're too uncoordinated to sort out charging as soon as you've landed/burrowed up/whatever but you can shoot things with pinpoint accuracy. If you're going to stop assaults from happening, at least make people fire snap shots after they've landed. Even so, I'd like to see something like "units arriving from Deep Strike shoot at half BS (rounding up) the turn they arrive".
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